General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsthe 2016 primaries are over...the fall campaign that followed them is over...
Last edited Fri Nov 10, 2017, 08:08 PM - Edit history (1)
It's time to accept that and to viewing everything through that prism, and to look at the future as a question of ideas, tactics, and strategy, rather than the feelings anybody has about any individual.
What matters is what's next.
To prevail in what comes next, we need each other and we need to start trusting each other.
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Squinch
(50,949 posts)over and over and over and over and over. Can't figure out why someone would do that.
Guess I'll never know.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That's the only reason.
What matters is that I'm saying to move past it.
Now that I've removed those two names, can accept the premise of the OP?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Let it go.
7. I had to bring it up to call for it to end.
No Ken you need not call it up over and over to make it go away. What you need to do is let 2016 go away. You bring it up endlessly. Just stop it. You are in fact living 2016. Let it go.
The rest of us are focused on 2018 and 2020. Please move forward.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'm working for unity and for an inclusive party and platform.
Why do you find that so hard to trust?
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)What are the filing deadlines in your state? In Texas we have a mid December filing deadline. for the 2018 cycle. It takes a great deal of work to convince some one to put their name on the line and to run for office.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)I've read posts here for a little while before signing up. There are very few new threads rehashing the primaries,
with exception of your threads inviting the board membership to respond. Is there a reason you are asking others to stop?
Ps this was supposed to be a response to the original post. Still trying to learn how to navigate...my apologies
Squinch
(50,949 posts)If you meant to respond to me and are confused about my comment, read the unedited version of the OP which was what I responded to and which dredged up the Hillary v. Bernie discussion.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Squinch
(50,949 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
Onyrleft
(344 posts)We have to come together and stop with the childish infighting.
LonePirate
(13,419 posts)You'd think 45 and his horrible administration would serve as that enemy but Bernie never faced off against 45 on the ballot like he did Hillary.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Please stop bringing it up. Let it go.
I feel~
with 2016 fatigue.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Over and over.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)What other way was there to call for people to move on WITHOUT mentioning the year?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It would probably be best to simply self-delete the OP.
Here is an idea.
What other way was there to call for people to move on WITHOUT mentioning the year?
You could perhaps say. 2018 first and foremost is our priority, yet you continue to talk about 2016. We as DEMOCRATS need to rally for our future and any Independent that feels the same are most welcome to our party. Our future is at stake our lives and our children's lives are at stake.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That's the message I essentially tried to convey. Your phrasing also mentions the year, though...why would people find your reference to it acceptable and mine to somehow be triggering?
Your OP was all about the year. You posted it clearly. 2016!
My phrasing mentioned the year cause 2016 was your OP. Hello? I triggered something here? Say what? I only made reference to 2016 because you made it your OP. Take responsibility for what you post.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)What I was trying to say was that we need to admit that anger over anything in that chronological period is wasted energy.
We're having this conversation at the moment(and I thank you for being willing to have it) because there is a widespread reflex response about nearly anything I post here, and the reaction to this was part of that-I posted something here that was about getting people to admit that the future is what we should be concerned with.
The year was simply a reference point, to denote what we SHOULDN'T be going on about anymore.
And your phrasing was, I assume, a suggested alternative to mine, which is why I asked what I asked in the question you excerpted and boldfaced there.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)came out. Enough with this trust BS. You should move on.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That Bernie shouldn't have been permitted to run, AND endless threads about Donna Brazile, and endless threads lashing out at people and blaming them for things they weren't to blame FOR.
All of that harms us-JUST as it harms us for anyone to still be arguing that HRC shouldn't have been nominated, and just as the Brazile threads, on both sides, harm us.
What I'm saying is...let's just move on with everyone stipulating these things.
1)HRC was legitimately nominated and would have been a fine president;
2)Bernie had the right to run in our primaries and the situation required a candidate standing on the issues he raised to be in the race;
3)Both campaigns made mistakes and people in both said things that were regrettable;
4)For the future, we need people and ideas from both of those camps to blend into an unified camp.
5)For the good of the future, no one who ran then should ran next time-we need a clean break from any of the personalities.
That's what I've been arguing for...and not anything else...do you have an issue with any of that?
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)equalizing the two 'sides'. It is over let it go...Virginia shows us the way forward...where we work together...no more camps...and Sen. Sanders will not run nor will Hillary Clinton so...finally we move on...there are those here who are convinced that Sanders will run...he won't. I for one am sick of the subject...what good feeling I had for Sen. Sanders have evaporated since 16 because of some of his comments... a person who wins a primary will be the nominee and it is our job to get behind that person no matter if we view them as an imperfect candidate or God's gift to the universe.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)What I've been talking about were the voters loyal to his ideas and the ideas themselves-the tactics of the individual there were the problem, not the ideas and not the vast majority of the supporters.
Working together, to my mind, would mean including a good chunk of the ideas-ADJUSTED to take historic oppression into account in the way they are applied-in combination with the best of the ideas we already had. What doesn't work is telling people to stop fighting for their ideas and stop working for change within the party. Neither of those things are bad.
The remaining votes that are up for grabs in '18 and '20 are largely going to be current nonvoters of all races, ages, genders and identities, who didn't vote because they felt the process excluded them. They are almost entirely going to be the poor-the economically comfortable are largely going to vote GOP no matter what(not as a bloc, but largely).
We can connect with the voters who can be added to our total without doing anything to harm the base. Most of the base is working-class, and would benefit from a more egalitarian economic vision(we could just call it "Full Democracy" ).
To get out of the idea of "camps" (which you and I are in full agreement on), we need to let go of the framing that puts any policy discussion in this party as "working-class whites"-which has somehow become code for hardline racists-versus "the base". We can easily create policies that include them all, and then base our future fall campaigns on what we should base them on-leading on the ideas and a positive vision of what we would do.
(note: the "Crying faces" in the previous version of this were typos. I keep forgetting that you get that if you put a quote mark too close to a parens).
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)I also think in a big tent there is no one universal idea...maybe healthcare.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)and has done damage with some of the things he has said-that, while he HAD to run last time, he should not seek the presidency again.
And that, whatever you can say about him, the ideas his campaign presented about remain valid, and the energy of his supporters remains something this party needs(btw, Our Revolution candidates did very well Tuesday, so that kind of bears out what I'm saying), and I can't see us building a sustainable long-term majority for progressive change if we go in the direction some want and anathemize both the ideas AND the supporters.
That's why I've talked of partnership...not that anyone should be kowtowed to, but that all are needed, and the ideas of all are needed.
I'm as happy about Tuesday as you are.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)like we missed an opportunity here. I will always feel sad that the first political experience for my kids where they really believed in a candidate ended badly...they are somewhat disillusioned sadly.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)...whose presence is now polarizing and toxic...
Whatever could be said about the person, it serves no good purpose to try to erase the ideas from Democratic discourse.
Bernie should not run again...but we need to incorporate the ideas themselves(they ARE popular and generate enthusiasm), adjusting them to address what parts of the Democratic base felt they did not address in their original form).
We NEED the young people who were drawn to Bernie...we can't afford to have them drift away-as too many of the young who were engaged by Obama eight years earlier drifted away because some in the party insisted on telling them their ideas were worthless, they weren't needed, and they should just shut up and go away until the next round of elections.
And I've also argued for dialog to resolve the long-standing tentsions...that we should set up situations in which Sanders supporters and "the base" met up and found ways to communicate with each other and to understand where each group is coming from, what is found offensive, and the areas of common ground that can be developed.
Those are basically all I've been arguing for since the nomination was settled.
Yet there's been blowback to all of it...and an assumption that I was lying when I sad that was what I was working for.
The man shouldn't run again...but what the campaign was about is both popular and relevant, and the vast bulk of the supporters are simply young(and young-at-heart)idealists who believe politics should be about transformation, about the world we need. In my view, we can't go forward on a long-term basis without including both.
I hope that at some point, people will trust that that was ALL that I've tried to do, and nothing else.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)I was looking for that one.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)tent and we try to put this horror (2016) behind us. Virginia was a great start.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Signing up for the Democratic Primary for the 2018 cycle starts next week and runs through mid December. You have to sign up in November and early December of 2017 for the Texas March 2018 primary. I have several good friends running for judicial positions and a good friend running for my county's district attorney. Harris County has its first Democratic District Attorney in 36 years and Kim Ogg is making a major difference (bail reform and marijuana decriminalization).
The 2018 cycle is the last cycle where Texas will have straight ticket voting and I have a number of friends running for judicial races who have a decent chance if Harris County goes blue. I am also donating to the lady running against the Tea Party idiot who is running the Harris County elections.
In 2016, a lady I trained as a poll watcher won the Harris County Tax Assessor race (Texas used to have a poll tax and voter registration is handled by the local taxing offices in most counties) and so we do not have to sue on voter registration issues this cycle. If we can rid of a Tea Party idiot named Stan Stannart in Harris County, we have a chance for fairer elections. Stan was violating the courts order in 2016 having his GOP election "greeters" tell voters that they could not vote without an ID. We stopped that after we videotaped some greeters violating the court's order.
In addition, the son of a good friend is one of the leading candidates in Texas CD 7 and we can flip this seat. I have some friends running for Texas house races and I am still hoping to convince another attorney friend to run against Joan Huffman for Texas State Senate seat 17. Huffman is a very nasty person.
I am still nervous about GOP voter suppression efforts for 2018. I helped trained 200+ poll watchers in 2016 and I fear that we will need as many or more for 2018. I am not sure if we will have a statewide voter protection program in 2018 like we have in 2016. I am not counting on the recent favorable rulings making things easier in 208. The Texas GOP is good at voter suppression and actually drove voter participation rates down to 33% in 2014 compared to 39% in 2010. It will be interesting to see how many poll watchers we need this cycle.
There is a ton of work to be done to turn Texas blue. I like working on real world issues in the real world. Things may calm down after the filing deadline but we will see. Working on political issues in the real world is tiring but rewarding.
You are not words on an internet board. You are action.
Thank you.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Texas will turn blue. It will take hard work but it can be done.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)The hard work is actually running for office. I have so much respect for the people who are actually signing up to run for office. The candidates who have the guts to sign up and run are my heroes
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)it some more.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Texas will turn blue at some point. Right now, the GOP is trying to delay this with voter suppression tactics and we are having to sue and fight these tactics.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)I would say everyone was blindsided. I think the same thing will happen in Texas. There is an anti-gerrymandering bill at Scotus now...it has a mathematical method for determining if a state is gerrymandered. Kennedy has said he will vote for such a bill in the past. And the questioning was promising...ruling in June. If this happens. Texas will be one of the first to go Dem, I think.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Which is a good thing because I don't trust them.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I also think that it was pointless for Northam to say he was against "sanctuary cities" when Virginia doesn't have any and when nobody who has an issue with those would vote for any Dem anyway, but DFA handled it horribly.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Democrat...screw them.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)acted badly so close to an election where the only other choice was a God damned Republican...this wasn't a primary...not one dime will they get from me or any help...I worked with them a great deal over the years.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Moore may win.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)"We're NOT Louisiana-Vote for Jones".
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I did go back and look at your original version, as well, after seeing comments about it. As I observe, from yesterday's election results, it looks like just about everyone has already moved on. Almost everyone.
We had some excellent victories in Tuesday's election. I hope for more to come in 2018.
Perhaps we should simply look forward without referencing the past. Perhaps.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We've been full of threads bringing that year up and all I was doing was saying to STOP.
I've done nothing to deserve being treated as though my intentions can't be trusted.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)However, you may have noticed the blowback.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)My OP had the same intent as your post. Why is it inflammatory for me simply to mention the year when it isn't for anybody else to do so? In referencing the rivalry, I was actually saying people who had been on BOTH sides of it should move on.
Why is that so hard for anybody to trust?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)think about. There's a consistency to it. Give it some thought and maybe something will come to you.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)1)That I'm secretly campaigning for Bernie-I've proved I'm not by repeatedly posting that he shouldn't run.
2)That I want Bernie to "take over the party", when I actually want no such thing.
3)That I'm refighting the primaries-I proved once and for all I wasn't by enthusiastically campaigning for the ticket in my home town in the fall;
4)That I'm somehow personally attacking Hillary-when my remarks are free of any comments or even any implications about any individual at all.
5)That I somehow have an issue with female politicians-when I've demonstrated that I don't by praising a lot of them.
None of these are true, and I have no hidden agenda of any sort.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)The three woman Democrats I worked for won last night in a major county that flipped BLUE.
One of the candidates is the first Democrat elected for her office in over 100 years. The office is important: supervisor of a metropolitan town that would be the second largest city in NYS, if it were a city rather than town.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)We can learn from them, I think.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I posted before the votes were in.
I'm glad about those results too.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)and view the 2018 midterms through the prism of the 2017 election results when evaluating ideas, tactics, and strategies that will lead to success.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)'we are punching hippies or disrespecting the progressive wing BS'...sick of this...you continue 2016 with these posts. We are a big tent party and that is how we win.
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)To prevail in what comes next, we need each other and we need to start trusting each other
For every five minutes spent on DU - we need, we MUST, we HAVE to spend five hours on the ground.
Join your local democratic party.
Go to the meetings.
Start an 'Action' group.
Join indivisible.
Start demanding NOW that you have a Democratic on the ballot for every single seat up next fall.
And remember - Every district has to play the game the way THEY need to.
We now have TWO Democratic Assembly members in the NJ 16th State Legislative district.
We flipped TWO seats from Republican in the county seat of that District.
You know how? On the streets - not on a message board.
We also reject the ideas of anonymous posters and those outside of our District.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Every time I suggest we stop attacking each other,
and unite for 2018 and 2020,
there are many who attack me for that idea.
Too many seem to enjoy,
and participate in the intra-party family feud.
This post will now be attacked.
Sad.
dsc
(52,160 posts)Atlanta has a run off for mayor, Alabama a general election for Senate.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Obviously that one goes on(and it now looks like we make take that Senate seat by default).
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I've repeatedly donated to Doug Jones and will probably do so again.
I'd phone bank but I'm not sure it would help him for people there to hear a voice with a Yankee accent calling.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd believe this to be sincere but for the myriad of your other posts which do precisely what you indict others for.
So yet again, I'm simply witnessing you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to.
I realize bias and narrative often prevents shame in far too many people.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I don't do anything negative and I don't refight, nor to I personally attack any candidate or the supporters of any candidate.
I said harsh things in the '16 primaries, for which I've apologized and atoned. Those are in the past.
Why can't you trust that I'm now working simply for the greater good in the party?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)All the supporters of a certain person are driven off the site and that person declared person non grata on the site. Looks more and more like they are winning. Keep up the good fight Ken but I don’t see things getting better anytime soon.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Stop. Please stop. We've heard this song over and over and it doesn't even have a good tune or beat.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's not any song YOU think I'm singing.
Whichever side we WERE on, all of us, and all of are ideas, are needed and need to be welcome now.
And it's about ideas and grassroots people, not ANY public figures.
Why can't you trust that?