Seriously?

[bigtree]

Last edited Thu Nov 9, 2017, 08:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Tom Watson‏Verified account @tomwatson

"People are not happy with Democrats."
- Senator Sanders, just now on CNN
#DemsInDisarray

Link to tweet

[yardwork]

1. Did Bernie Sanders just say that?

[Hortensis]

68. Huge recurring theme. He truly believes in himself and

his mission of rescuing the nation from Democrats. Having little patience for those who can't share his vision comes with being so strongly committed, of course, and free of the corruption that rules the party.

So nothing new here, just the same greatness his colleagues in the Senate have been enjoying rubbing up against for a quarter century.

I confess that I'm not always so comfortable with constant reminders that as a Democrat I am corrupt and profoundly callous and uncaring about the needs of others. I feel bad, but I can't seem to rise above it.

[secondwind]

2. Sanders voted for Hillary Clinton. Enough said

[mamas]

4. Sanders SAID he voted for Hillary Clinton.

Just to point out what we hear and how we hear messages. It's important to listen carefully.

[NCTraveler]

7. So did Bush and Bush has spent less time over...

The last year trashing Democrats and progressives than has Sanders. Doesn’t mean I all of the sudden think he is a stand up individual. This is just ignorant propaganda by Sanders in his attempt to divide and separate his base from their money.

He voted for Clinton? So did tens of millions of people. RMoney probably even did.

[Orrex]

9. Great post

[uponit7771]

11. +1, bush has spent less time trashing Dems

[Demsrule86]

13. No it is not enough...every time he says stuff like this he hurts the Democratic Party...

I went from voting for Sen. Sanders to vowing never to vote for him in a primary...I don't like him anymore.

[shanny]

32. Or helps it.

Depends on whether you think the Democratic Party is perfect I guess.

[Demsrule86]

33. It doesn't help to drive voters ways from the Democratic Party by saying essentially it sucks...help

like that we don't need. I do believe though, it is almost over...I was heartened by Virginia...not one good word from him of course...just an attack on the party. He completely ignored the race. Sanders is a Senator and hopefully will concentrate on that in the coming months because he is not helping in our efforts to drive Republicans out of office.

[shanny]

37. I disagree

what doesn't help is doing the same old same old

what did help in VA and NJ and WA and elsewhere is women and minorities and unusual suspects stepping up and running for office. and everybody getting out to vote

some don't think the party needs to change. i think it already is.

[ismnotwasm]

41. And do you think Senator Sanders changed the Democratic Party?

[shanny]

70. Yes, I think he did.

I think losing to Donald Fucking Trump changed it even more.

Next question.

[SandyZ]

43. Women and minorities, the Democratic base. That would be the same ole, same ole.

From what we were reading right after 2016, the influx of women especially was due to the treatment and results Clinton experienced in the election. A system of sexism that riled women up to run.

[shanny]

71. As party members, yes. Running for office? Not so much.

I don't think Bernie was solely responsible, maybe not even mostly. Clinton played a role, and so do the increasingly misogynist Republican Party. For whatever reason, the changes this year are welcome, and overdue imo.

What I don't think is that Bernie hurts the cause.

[SandyZ]

75. Wrong. This became conversation immediately after Clinton lost specifically stating her experience

was the call for women to run and an huge increase in women starting the ball rolling. It has been discussed often enough. I am not about to take away the efforts and reason for this outstanding showing by women that used running as their voice for change.

I think Sanders absolutely hurts the cause on almost a daily basis, today being no different attacking the democratic Party again.

[shanny]

77. The women's march the day after the inauguration was not all about Clinton.

All the laws the Pukes are passing and proposing and the reaction to them are not all about Clinton. The misogynistic BS exposed at the highest levels of politics and the news biz and Hollywood is not all about Clinton.

[SandyZ]

79. Your post has nothing to do with my discussion in my post. Do not fool yourself Clinton was not the

catalyst for so many women in the U.S. You are selling these women, and their stance, their voice, their statements, short.

[shanny]

81. post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy

"after this, therefore because of this"

or, if it is easier, look up "correlation" and "causation" You are making assumptions about "so many women" you really oughta back it up. I'll wait.

[SandyZ]

83. Or look up the actual statements and activities and exolanations from many women that are

running for elected position or looking to do so in the future. Plenty of documentation.

After Clinton's Loss, Surge In Women Interested In Running For Office
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2017/01/05/women-running-for-office

Meet the Women Inspired to Run for Office After the 2016 Election
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/meet-the-women-inspired-to-run-for-office-after-the-election-w500457

Clinton’s loss sparks surge of interest in women running for office
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/clintons-loss-sparks-surge-of-interest-in-women-running-for-office/2016/12/10/557be8fe-bcd9-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html?utm_term=.a9f1d920b075

Year of the woman: the Democrats inspired by Trump to run for office
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/04/democrats-inspired-by-trump-to-run-for-office-hillary-clinton

Why Hillary Clinton's loss is turning out to be good for women in politics
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/clinton-loss-good-for-women-politics-1.3910591

“We’ve never seen anything like this”: how Trump inspired women to run for office
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/6/16571570/female-candidates-trump-clinton-2016-election

Hillary Clinton's Loss Was A Good Thing For Women — Here's Why
http://www.refinery29.com/2017/11/180055/hillary-clinton-election-loss-female-activism

What Clinton's loss says about women in politics
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/clinton-loss-women-politics/index.html


Even if Trump is in the title you can bet it is all about the Clinton GE run. Do not dismiss the phenomenon of the move for women candidates.

[shanny]

86. Article after article starts off with "after Clinton's loss"

the floodgates opened. They could as easily said "after Trump won" or "after a serial sexual predator won". I don't subscribe to the "great man" theory of history; it is naive to think this movement is all about Hillary. All of this has been building for a long time, and finally the water poured over the dam.

[SandyZ]

88. Your post is sad.

[Demsrule86]

47. It seemed to help in Virginia...are difficulties have mostly to do with voter suppression and

the gerrymander...so I am fine with the Party and those who attack it merely help the GOP.

[moda253]

52. Did you happen to read the party platform in 2016

Because it sure doesn't sound like it.

[shanny]

72. Why yes I did.

Next question.

[Squinch]

54. You think BS had anything to do with women and minorities stepping up and everyone getting

out the vote? His organization trashed the candidate just before the election.

Yes, the party is changing and women and people of color are using their voices. You are very naïve if you think this has anything to do with the man who said that social issues were a distraction.

[Fresh_Start]

56. +1 nt

nt

[shanny]

73. That was DFA was it not?

They did endorse Bernie in the primaries last year, but they've been around since Dean founded the organization in 2004. IOW not "Bernie's organization." Why don't you ask them why they did it?

[Squinch]

53. No. It depends on whether you think constantly publicly trashing an institution improves it. I

don't. A lifelong politician, a man who understands very well how public opinion works, ought to be able to think of a better way to communicate his "improvement" suggestions than this constant gratuitous trashing.

[shanny]

74. Definitions vary, don't they? So do viewpoints and opinions.

Like ours. And also this one:

gra·tu·i·tous
ɡrəˈt(y)o͞oədəs/
adjective
adjective: gratuitous

1.
uncalled for; lacking good reason; unwarranted.

Sorry. I think there's plenty to criticize the party for. At the top of the list, we lost 1000 or so state legislative seats, we lost the House, the Senate, governor-ships, before we lost the White House. But it seems to have taken that last one before we got fired up.

[Squinch]

76. And you think BS saying, "People are not happy with Democrats" is going to get those seats

back?

And you think him saying that the day after a night of huge Democratic electoral victories is going to bring people flocking to Democrats?

I'm sure you don't think these things. Because they're asinine.

BS was the one who told us that social issues were distractions. The new wave of Democrats that rolled in on Tuesday are primarily women and people of color and LGBT people. So ... it looks like the issues that BS discounted are the very ones that will win us back the lost seats.

[shanny]

78. For addicts the first step is accepting there is a problem. Is it not?

[Squinch]

82. BS trashing the Democrats over and over and over is not going to get us elected.

Women and people of color, whose issues were largely dismissed by BS will - and on Tuesday did - get us elected.

[shanny]

84. Blaming everybody and everything else is not going to get us elected.

And that is what I see, over and over and over and over.

Bernie Sanders
Bernie bros
the far left
Jill Stein
Susan Sarandon
Michael Moore
Jim Comey
the Russians
old white men
deplorables
etc
etc
etc

Never our party, never our candidate, never ourselves. There are legitimate issues to address, inside the party and out, and we need to address them.

Good night.

[Squinch]

85. LOL! You are the one who put BS in that list. I'm not, though I do agree he belongs there.

And BS trashing Democrats does nothing to address legitimate issues. All it does is trash Democrats.

[Squinch]

51. No. Not enough said. He needs to stop this shit. If he wants to work with Democrats, then

he needs to stop trashing Democrats. And yes, this is trashing Democrats.

[janterry]

3. Isn't there evidence of that?

I've heard from a lot of friends that they are frustrated with the party.
But, of course, that's just talk between folks.
Here's one poll from CNN:
Poll: Views of Democratic Party hit lowest mark in 25 years
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/politics/cnn-poll-republicans-democrats-taxes/index.html

So, there's that.

[Demsrule86]

14. Yep, and it is the constant attacks from the right and the left that cause this.

so maybe they should just shut the hell up.

[Lulu KC]

36. Bad headline

If you read further, there's this: But the Republican Party isn't doing any better, with just 30% of Americans holding a favorable view. That's essentially the same as September, when the rating hit its lowest point in polling back to 1992, but down from 42% in March. A broad 6 in 10, 61%, have an unfavorable opinion.

[janterry]

39. I would have thought that we'd be doing better.

Given the fact that we are defending health care (and that's popular).

I am curious why our numbers aren't rising.

I disagree with others on this thread that discussion is a bad idea (that's it's an attack). IDK. Maybe it's because I'm already liberal that I like this discussion (how we will define ourselves now and in the future) - and don't see it as threatening. I'm even okay with this poll (it gives information, imo). It's just one poll - and things are always shifting, but this one poll is a data point that can add to the discussion.

[Lulu KC]

49. I have faith

It is getting better, and will continue to get better. Partly because we are doing better, partly because more people are seeing Republicans' intentions more clearly, and partly because of our very good (Republican) friend, Mr. Mueller. So much of what these polls are based on has been driven by Russian bots and trolls. Election results Tuesday are more revealing. Si se puede!

[janterry]

50. I hope you are right

I just remember when Bush Jr., was President. I was so sure we could defeat him. And then he got elected again.

OTOH, when we came through those dark years, we elected Obama. And that was pretty great!

[Squinch]

55. No one in this thread has said that discussion is an attack. People are saying that an attack is

an attack.

There is no discussion from that quarter. There is only trashing and pouting.

[MyNameGoesHere]

6. Well the spotlight had shifted a bit

and he wants back in the game. So here we are for another 15 minutes. It will pass.

[Demsrule86]

15. He doesn't know it yet...but he is becoming irrelevant...He will go back to being the Senator from

Vermont...sure he has a 'following' but so what...not like he can do anything with them.

[justiceischeap]

8. Did he, by chance, talk about how Berniecrats and Democrats came together in VA

to get all those Democrats elected? Did he talk about how tirelessly Pierrello worked for Northam after losing the primary?

That sounds an awful lot like unity, not disarray.

[PunkinPi]

12. Exactly, couldn't agree more. nt

[Demsrule86]

17. I agree...and it looks like unity will be achieved without Sen. Sanders help.

I will never understand his game...does he simply dislike Democrats, or does he feel left out? Perriello was great by the way. Sen. Sanders supported issue 2 in Ohio ( I was against it/ badly written bill), it went down in flames. He supported Perriello who worked his ass of to elect Northam...but Perriello didn't win;Sen Sanders also supported Mello who lost...maybe that is part of it. who knows? I hope Perriello runs for something-very impressed. I don't see that Sen. Sanders endorsement really carry that much weight in 17. He is great in the Senate though.

[justiceischeap]

19. Maybe Perriello can run for Comstocks seat

in 2018.

And I agree, Bernie is great in the Senate but I’m so over his “get off my lawn” schtick.

[Demsrule86]

20. He has done nothing but annoy me since 16...with a few bright spots...very few.

I hope Perriello runs...he really did step up in Virginia.

[mcar]

24. This!

[uponit7771]

10. sigh will this guy ever be happy?

[workinclasszero]

34. All signs point to...

Nope.

[kentuck]

16. I think Bernie is re-evaluating his assessments?

He is a realist. He can see what happened in Virginia and other places on election night. The Bernie Democrats and the Hillary Democrats united to defeat Trump and his toadies.

[Demsrule86]

18. This is a good thing so why attack Democrats?

[brush]

40. He can't help himself. That's just who he is, a political gadfly whose target is too often the...

Democratic Party.

And this coming just after our big wins in Virginia and New Jersey.

Seems he'd have learned to concentrate his criticisms on trump and the repugs instead of yet again creating more dissension in our party.

How many times do we have to see this from him?

He needs to learn from the guy he endorsed in Virginia who when he lost the primary jumped in wholeheartedly to help Northam defeat the repugs, something he only did grudgingly and not immediately with Hillary.

[Demsrule86]

45. Well day by day...he is making himself irrelevant.

[OliverQ]

21. I think he said this in response to CNN's poll that only 37% of people approve of

Dem party.

[MineralMan]

22. That must be why Democrats lost so badly in VA on Tuesday.

[workinclasszero]

35. Ikr?

SMH

[mcar]

23. Some people will not give up on a false premise

What's that line about repeating a lie often enough?

[Madam45for2923]

26. It is a real drain debating w/people who are set on dumping on DEMS!

[Madam45for2923]

25. He sure likes to say that given any chance which MSM gives him plenty. LOL!

NO MATTER! DEMS WE MOVING FORWARD!

[Madam45for2923]

27. Hahaha! So helpful! Big league.

[Madam45for2923]

28. Who is he speaking to? Asking for a friend...

[mindfulNJ]

29. Ay yi yi

[Madam45for2923]

30. Was he asked about that phone call last year w/Donna Brazile? Where he was lowkey when she told him

about her "findings"?

Donna Brazile called the Vermont Senator w/her "findings" but he was lowkey

She describes a phone call where she told Sanders of her findings but he sounded lowkey.

Which she took as him being magnanimous.

She called Bernie Sanders to tell him about all this, but first “I lit a candle in my living room and put on some gospel music. I wanted to center myself for what I knew would be an emotional phone call.” (In fact, it turned out not to be an emotional call. Apparently Bernie didn’t care much.)

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/donna-brazile-and-the-latest-great-hillary-scandal/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029794836

[Madam45for2923]

31. It sure would've been a perfect moment for him to clarify from his viewpoint.

[MrsCoffee]

38. People are not happy with Independents who bash Democrats to stay relevant.

[smirkymonkey]

64. Thank YOU!

[SandyZ]

42. This is why Democrats are angry as we are continually lectured to not be a part of the problem

calling out Sanders repeated insults to us the base, and our party.

[liquid diamond]

44. Yet he still gets protection here.

What in God’s name does he have to say to lose it?

[Demsrule86]

46. I don't know...but on those threads where it is a discussion of his words...it seems fairly lenient.

[moda253]

58. I do not get it.

I called this out and got my wrist slapped for it.

These people are NOT friends of our party and as such they are not friends of our country IMHO.

[Wwcd]

60. He'd have to admit his actual reason for ....

Never mind.
We called this one long ago.

[lpbk2713]

48. Disapproval with Congress hovers around eighty per cent.

Singling out Dems at a time when we have corrupt
and inept leadership is hoisting a false flag.

Link: http://news.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

[WinstonSmith00]

57. The polls say people are not

People are less happy with the repuklicans.

The Democrats should be honest with themselves and figure out why people are un happy and dominate the next election.

[Wwcd]

62. Who are these unhappy people?

People are pretty happy & encouraged with the Dem Party. Tuesday's election proved that.

Two days later Sanders makes a statement like this?
No one is listening to him anymore. The bloom is fading from that old song & dance and Tuesday election showed the falsity behind his statement.

[Wwcd]

59. Who are these unhappy people? Virginia Republicans?

Tuesday night, Many Dems clobbered many aspiring Repubs, Trumpers, some GOP in Congress., yup. I would bet they're unhappy with Dems.
That's probably who Sanders meant.

Man, if they're unhappy now, just wait till 2018 election.
Who else could Sanders be referring to?

Fine spokesmodel we got there.

[Kingofalldems]

61. I really don't want to see Bernie for President on DU--ever.

[Madam45for2923]

63. What people? Is he talking about Trumpers?

[Wwcd]

65. Idk. Trumpublicans are the only people in America unhappy with the Dem Party

..only people I can think of.

He must have meant to say "Republicans are unhappy".

Everyone else should be ecstatic & proud as heck at the united organization that took place behind all the naysaying chatter.

I hope the trumpublicans ARE unhappy with the stealth campaign skills that appeared in full force on tuesday night around this country.

That is the great Dem Party at work.
Pretty cool huh!

[Madam45for2923]

66. Aha! I thought so. GOPers are not happy that we won on Tuesday! DEMS WE READY & RARING TO GO!

Makes them angry grrrrr grrrr.

[Wwcd]

67. 😎

[Blue_Tires]

69. My response:

Link to tweet

[ecstatic]

80. Dangerous. He's affecting perception right before the biggest

fight of our lives. SMFH

[delisen]

87. I,Bernie Sanders, am not happy with Democratic Party

His message would be so much clearer if he made "I" statements instead of telling his audience that "people" are not happy with the Democratic Party.