George Takei issues twitter messages denying accusations

[Roland99]

Link to tweet

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[Glorfindel]

1. I believe him.

[samnsara]

8. me too.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. I'm torn... I WANT to believe George, just like so many others on our side of the aisle...

it's a difficult situation. But, there can NO doubt, it's real victims of sexual abuse and harassment who deserve our undying support. We need to know the truth!

One more thing, if someone accused ME of these things and I knew I was innocent, I would be DEMANDING a lie detector test, truth serum, ANYTHING to clear my name.

Not saying refusal to do this is a sign of guilt either... just what I WOULD DO!!!

[Eliot Rosewater]

106. absolutely believe him

[adigal]

107. If you believe women accusing people you don't like, and don't believe this guy cause you like Georg

then you are as bad as Alabama fools who refuse to believe the woman accusing him.

And from what I ready, George admitted to some sketchy behavior on the Howard Stern show.

[Irish_Dem]

2. I want to believe him. But I will wait and see if others come forward and make complaints.

Offenders usually target more than one victim.

[L. Coyote]

3. Yes, when he has 14 accusers like Trump, then maybe we can say maybe.

Given the Twitter trolls are hard at work in support of Roy Moore, I would not be surprised if their is a hit job against George, but they won't be able to organize 14 accusers.
Only the All Powerful, Jedi Master of Political Dirty Tricks Hillary could pull that off.

[Irish_Dem]

4. I agree, the truth will come out. nt

[uponit7771]

72. +1

[Adrahil]

28. I'm wih you

I really want to believe him. But we'll see how this plays out.

[MFM008]

31. Exactly

Giving him benefit of doubt.
For now anyway.

[adigal]

108. Did you give all those other guys the benefit of the doubt?? We cannot be hypocrites here. nt

[MFM008]

112. They had multiple accusers

There is not enough evidence yet. More evidence will catch my attention.

[adigal]

113. No, not all of them did - this disbelief is so Republican! Nt

[Pope George Ringo II]

42. I think this is where I am on this too, for now.

Brunton has apparently been consistent, and Takei's Howard Stern interview is troubling, but I'm just so used to this sort of behavior being a pattern. And of course, rational thought is clouded by the fact that I really do want to believe him.

[Irish_Dem]

48. What did Takei say in the Howard Stern interview?

What were the troubling parts?

[Pope George Ringo II]

54. From another thread

Post 70 in https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029829311

gave the link to:

https://www.mediaite.com/online/listen-to-george-takei-seemingly-refer-to-the-sexual-assault-allegation-on-the-howard-stern-show/

[Irish_Dem]

60. I agree, the interview is troubling. nt

[uponit7771]

71. +1

[defacto7]

57. Why does anyone think they need to believe anything

written on the Internet? We observe... but believing one side or the other isn't necessary. It's actually futile, even dangerous.

[True Dough]

58. This is true

Not to say an isolated incident is completely out of the question, but so many abusers target multiple victims. It becomes obvious when the accused initially issues denials and then another accuser steps forward and then another. Time will tell.

[uponit7771]

70. RIGHT !!! Which has been the pattern in the past 20 accusations, there usually not just 1

[pnwmom]

96. That's how I'm feeling at this point. If he's a predator there will be others. n/t

[mdbl]

5. Takei doesn't seem like the type

the personalities don't match up. Trump, Moore and complete assholes of their ilk are capable of anything. I'll reserve judgement on Takei though - but it sure looks like a breitbart hit or that jerk that pretended he was a pimp - can't remember the name.

[samnsara]

7. i agree.. Geo. isnt a big man and has never seemed

..like a jerk.

[B2G]

9. There is no 'type'.

Which is why sexual assault is rampant.

If there was a 'type', they could be identified and avoided. That's obviously not the case.

[Kaleva]

18. 'Type' has multiple victims

[B2G]

29. And how do you know there are multiple victims?

I'm talking about your assertion that there is a 'type' of assaulter that can be identified through appearance or interactions with them.

You would only know that if others have come forward that you know about. My rapist didn't fit any 'type'. He was a mild mannered middle aged upper manager in my company.

He certainly didn't fit the profile of a rapist that I would have been wary of.

[MFM008]

33. Mine was an 18 year old babysitter

And I'd bet the farm he did it before or after me.
They can't quit.
We need more info before we fly off the handle.

[Kaleva]

38. You are replying to the wrong person

I never made the assertion that a sexual assaulter can be identified by appearance or by interactions with him or her.

What I did say was that the 'type' usually has more then just one victim.

[B2G]

43. I was referrring to your comment on multiple victims. nt

[Kaleva]

61. No you didn't. Read the first sentence in your previous post.

[Motownman78]

21. The accuser is a Repub,

this is a hit job to distract from the real assault by Roy Moore.

[B2G]

30. That's the exact same thing the Repubs are saying about Moore

Do you agree with them too?

[JI7]

34. Moore himself has not denied it

[B2G]

36. Yeah, he has.

Repeatedly.

[JI7]

37. No he hasn't. See sean hannity interview

[Irish_Dem]

49. Yes. We are finding that public and private sides to a person don't always match. nt

[mdbl]

76. point taken.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

27. Many never do.

[Lotusflower70]

89. That's a myth

That's been perpetuated for a long time. The idea that there is a "type". There is profile that the majority fit but there are exceptions. The main thing that most molesters have in common is that can live double lives. On the surface, they may be good citizens or perceived as pillars of the community. Famous predators have the advantage of power and image. We become emotionally attached to them because of that celebrity especially if that celebrity is over time. The line between image and reality gets blurred. There is also the possibility of false accusation. I am torn because I love George Takei but I can't dismiss the accuser outright because of that. I guess I have to wait and see. This sucks though.

[left-of-center2012]

6. No way in Hell !

Who is this "Brunton" ?

[ananda]

10. I tend to believe Takei and Piven.

It's getting a bit crazy now.

[LisaL]

12. I agree.

This is getting too much.

[mountain grammy]

11. gotta believe George on this..

[former9thward]

116. Even when he admits it on the Stern show?

George Takei Once Talked About Grabbing Men To ‘Persuade’ Them To Have Sex

When Stern inquired if Takei had ever been involved in nonconsensual sexual activity, an uncomfortable silence followed, as the actor attempted to laugh off the question.

“Did you ever grab anyone by the cock against their will?” Stern asked at one point.

“Some people that are kind of … umm … skittish or maybe … um … afraid and you’re trying to persuade...” Takei said.

[WinkyDink]

13. I'm inclined to believe he is a target based on his anti-Trump tweets.

[treestar]

15. This

Anyone can say anything, and since this is the new accusation to be made, it looks like it's going to be used politically. And that is bad for real victims.

[GoCubsGo]

20. Yep. His Facebook page is loaded with right-wing trolls, too.

So much that this was my first thought when I read about he accusation. There's always someone telling him to "Shut up and stick to Star Trek", or some such. Actually, not just "someone." They ascend on his posts like a bunch of locusts. Unfortunately, I suspect they will be making additional accusations the same way.

[Raster]

14. I believe George without reservation.

[adigal]

109. You sound just like a Republican from Alabama. I thought we were better than this.

George gave a really sketchy interview to Howard Stern. Go check it out.

[TDale313]

16. I believe him.

[Kirk Lover]

17. I don't know what to believe.

[LisaL]

22. Even if only a small percentage of allegations are false, it stand to reason that some people are

being falsely accused.

[moriah]

39. Some are, yes. But most aren't.

George is saying he doesn't recall ever even knowing the model in question.

Now, I'm not going to say that every sexually active person in 1981 was keeping tracks of their sex partners, gay or straight. AIDS was starting but people weren't aware it was sexually transmitted.

I was a baby back then but I know gay or straight, casual sex wasn't the big deal it became later in the decade. People weren't keeping books of partners so they knew who to tell if they tested positive yet. In fact, the biggest reason one particular patient's contacts were able to be traced early in the epidemic was because he had a very memorable name and they were able to determine where he flew for work -- not because keeping "black books" was common.

It's still possible he didn't recall by name or face a person, or that the accuser was blacked out and not unconscious. It's a risk you take when you have sex with someone drinking that they might not remember everything. (It's why I encourage people to think of how un-sexy cleaning puke up from your comforter is before deciding to sleep with someone who has been drinking heavily. It's just wiser.)

However, George's story is that if he *did* ever come across this model, they didn't know each other well enough for him to remember the name or face, and he didn't molest anyone who he thought was unconscious or incapable of consent. The accuser's story is that when he did begin to protest, George stopped. So if he was blacked out, it's still possible neither are lying.

If something comes up that unequivocally proves that statement is a lie, that George absolutely knew this model by name, I'll be a very sad Sulu fan. Very, very sad.

[LisaL]

53. Even if only some are false, that still means innocent people are among the accused.

Which is why our legal system says innocent until proven guilty. But here in the trial by media, it appears we are to believe all accusations without question.

[moriah]

62. And even if this IS to discredit us/distract from Moore, the attitude you...

... are demonstrating by discussing "trial by media" and demanding unequivocal proof it happened before you'll even admit it's *possible* someone we admire could do something shitty is feeding into what they want.

Which is to accuse us of hypocrisy.

Just because he's one of our heroes doesn't mean we should automatically assume any accusation made is a lie, suggest that because a person is over 21 that alcohol-facilitated sexual assault is "no big deal", say victims are automatically discredited because they're "speaking out late in the day", or any of the other victim-blaming bullshit I've seen here.

Since George isn't going to be making legislation, and none of us were in George's apartment if/when anything happened, using him as a distraction from Moore is stupid anyway. For them, strategically it's better for Moore to recuse himself because a fresh candidate will have less baggage.

But I will not be silent when I see people on my side minimize date rape just because the victim drank voluntarily, or start questioning what could have put them in a state where they couldn't consent not to determine what might have actually happened, but to smear the victim by suggesting they were doing drugs too. It doesn't matter what put a person into a state where they are complaining of feeling ill/sick/dizzy -- you take CARE of them, you don't take advantage of them.

We should acknowledge that the behavior described is absolutely wrong, whether we believe it happened or not -- not try to make excuses for it because we fear it might have.

And then wait and see what else comes out that gives credibility or takes credibility away from the accusation.

[LisaL]

67. The attitude I see people demonstrating is that they don't demand any proof.

There are a lot of accusations flying around about a lot of people. Some of those are bound to be false.

[moriah]

68. But every one should be taken seriously, not just the ones politically convenient.

I know it sucks when the other side is so shitty and hypocritical, but we have to take a higher road to be any better.

As I said, my next "investigative step" would be to determine if there *was* proof George would have known the accuser by name and face well enough to remember him. If that comes out, I'm going to be very very sad.

If it comes out that the accuser had a specific vendetta against George other than being a Milo-level idiot in thinking Conservatives want gay men in the party for any reason other than to use them as "token" minorities like they have with many other groups, or that something made his apparently "believable" story demonstrably false, I'm going to be furious.

There's enough details in George's denial of knowing him well enough to remember him at all and the accusation made that I think any "trial by media" will get to the real facts.

[Kaleva]

69. Sex predators rarely have just one victim

And they often commit their crimes in a similar pattern.

For now, I'll believe George unless others come forward with similar accusations.

[moriah]

81. I neither believe nor disbelieve. Not all facts are in.

The thing that made me go off on this, FYI, is because of some things people said essentially minimizing something that's very serious -- acquaintance rape, especially alcohol facilitated sexual assault. And while yes, like Cosby, it's likely others will come forward if there is a pattern. Will people, also like Cosby, say that these people are coming forward with agendas or hoping to cash in?

I am not nearly as concerned about whether or not George did what he's accused of as seeing people say shit like:

If that hadn't been a factor then I'd say, give me a break, two adult men, both evidently gay and comfortable with it. One make a pass at the other the it is not reciprocated. End of story. Easy enough for one man to refuse to participate.

When the accusation was that no matter how the alleged victim got into the situation -- willingly or drugged -- they were taken advantage of while intoxicated enough to complain of feeling ill and experience loss of memory and believe to have also experienced loss of consciousness, instead of being taken *care* of.

It's like we need to add "Gay or straight, voluntarily drunk or drugged, if someone's unconscious, they still don't want tea" to the "Tea and Consent" video.

And I didn't know if that statement was made because of it being guys and our patriarchal culture still seeing men as incapable of being victims, if it was made because this was an accusation against one of our "sacred cows" insofar as people we admire and respect and he was afraid it might have been true, or what.

But this video applies to both gay and straight relationships, male and female victims and perpetrators, and in and out of college.

I have experienced alcohol facilitated sexual assault. I do know how it feels.

We should not minimize the seriousness of the violation inherent in the act George is accused of just because the accusation is against someone we admire and respect.

[mythology]

101. The hypocrisy isn't an accusation. It's a fact

Look at the people in this thread saying they automatically believe Takei. Look at the people theorizing that this is some sort of plan to get back for the Moore accusations. Because apparently the theory is that accusing a minor celebrity is the same as a likely Senator.

[BannonsLiver]

23. Works for me.

But then again im not the type who automatically takes every allegation, no matter what it is, as fact without even the slightest desire to question it in any way.

[moriah]

24. So he's saying that he never knew this model?

Okay.

I really want to believe George.

If something comes up that indicates beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did know each other, though....

I'm going to be a very sad Sulu fan.

[Kirk Lover]

51. Yes this...He is saying he racked his brain and can't remember him. We shall see. n/t

[PasadenaTrudy]

25. We all have

our favorite celebs, but you do not know what they are like in their private, off-screen lives. That is the bottom line.

[FarPoint]

26. Trial by Media has consequences....

I sensed this media style of coming forward with old, unaddressed claims, valid or not .... would morph into a Frenzy...

Trial by Media is not the path....

[Kaleva]

41. This is what we get with a free press.

[FarPoint]

44. If you feed sales and increase ratings with accusations....

It becomes Trial by Media....

Media helped give us tRump....same shit, different targets.

[JI7]

45. Media covered up things for trump

And would make up for anything negative against him by hitting Clinton harder.

[FarPoint]

47. True...

I'm just very uneasy with no legal course for alleged actions that are old.... cautious I guess ...

[Kaleva]

46. The Spanish American War was a media created event

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

35. I hope it's not true, but the reality is that "our" guys are not going to be as pure

as the driven snow just because they are liberals (e.g., Weinstein, Hefner, Weiner and others). Kevin Spacey, for example, has always supported Democratic candidates, but that doesn't make him any less of a predatory creep. "Nice" men can be harassers. Most women have known a few of those - the nice guy who tries to get into your pants when the opportunity arises. I like George Takei and I hope he didn't do what he's accused of, but I also liked Kevin Spacey - he's a first-rate actor - until he turned out to be a serial molester of young men. I also hope the recent revelations of harassment and worse by women and men who have had the courage to speak out don't give rise to false accusations by people with agendas. I don't know what to think about Takei at this point. I want the accusation to be false but I also know that nice liberal men sometimes take advantage, too.

[ailsagirl]

40. Another disgusting smear campaign

I don't believe a word of it.

[Mike Nelson]

50. A couple of things...

...George was already, minus this, a good citizen. We knew Roy Moore and others were deplorable - even without the accusations...

There are not a bunch of Takei accusers, so that also counts...

I think the accuser deserves to be heard and I'm open-minded, but hasn't really added up, for me, yet. If it's a single incident that did happen, I think George would admit it and apologize; that's his nature and there doesn't seem to be any legal reason why he wouldn't own up.

[riversedge]

56. Well said. I also think he would own up to a single mistake and apologize.

[uponit7771]

75. +1, Takei has credibility and there's lack of a pattern. The others were KNOWN for their

... actions including Moore KNOWN for dating teenage girls IINM (I'll add note if I am) and Red Don is known for being an entitled asshole and a perv ... even Cosby and Louis CK !!

[Takket]

52. I believe George but.....

as a Star Trek fan i look up to him and my opinion is admittedly completely bias and for that reason I'd say we need to know more. I would not dismiss it so easily if it were, say, Roy Moore being targeted by these accusations.

I think we need to know more before judging this one way or the other.

[SandyZ]

55. Interview with Howard Stern

https://www.mediaite.com/online/listen-to-george-takei-seemingly-refer-to-the-sexual-assault-allegation-on-the-howard-stern-show/

“Did you ever grab anyone by the cock against their will?” Stern asked Takei.

Takei remained silent.

“Uh oh,” Stern reacted to the non-answer. “You’ve never sexually harassed anyone, have you?”

The Star Trek star began awkwardly laughing.

“Some people are kind of… umm… skittish,” Takei responded. “Oh maybe… um… afraid and you’re trying to persuade.”

/

“No, it wasn’t at work,” he clarified. “It was either in my home- he came to my home.”

“So what do you mean?” Stern asked. “You mean some guy who was hesitating to have sex with you and then you gave him a gentle squeeze on the balls or something?”

“More than a gentle…” Takei laughed. “But it didn’t involve power over the other.”

I am leaving this here. I do not know what to believe.

[Kaleva]

59. Maybe the accuser heard the interview and concocted a story from that

What will lead me to believe that the story is true is if or when others come forward. Sexual predators almost always have more then one victim.

[SandyZ]

66. Like I said, I do not know. I was adding information. No more.

[Roland99]

93. Hmmmm

[Drunken Irishman]

63. A LOT of these replies sound like the same we're seeing from Moore supporters - even same wording.

"Why now?"

"Smear campaign!"

"I believe him!"

Stop. Just stop. I'm not saying the accuser is or isn't telling the truth, but it doesn't matter what your thoughts are on the person or how good he seemed to be... that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You can't say you believe Moore's accusers because he's a shitty dude but then dismiss these. You can't push back against those who question the accusers' motives and then start questioning the motives of another accuser because you like the guy.

Yeah, the Moore stuff came from an article and was heavily researcherd - but a lot of these accusations haven't. Like the ones on Trump that so many of you believe. And I believe.

Look, I don't want this to be true but I'm also not going to take George's word without question. With that said, I'm not going to question the motives of the accuser until it's proven he's lying.

Because doing so is exactly WHY people don't come forward.

Hell, you all believed Anthony Rapp and THAT was 30 years ago with no tangible proof, either.

It's not irrational to believe this happened even if you really, really like George.

[B2G]

64. Thank you.

This says it all.

[Kaleva]

65. The big difference is that 4 women have come forward about Moore

And many have come forward about Spacey and there were rumours about him for years. Even Family Guy alluded to it. And several have come out about CK Lewis and Weinstein.

[Drunken Irishman]

77. No. There is no big difference.

Had only one woman come forward about Moore, it wouldn't make her any less credible.

[Kaleva]

85. Unless more people come forward, it's a matter of he said he said

In almost every case, sexual assaulters have more then one victim. Until more people come forward and collaborate George's accusers story, I'm willing to give George the benefit of the doubt.

And you really can't use Moore as an example as four, not just one, have come out against him. Pick another notable where only a single person accused that person of sexual assault.

[Drunken Irishman]

88. Thank you. You just reinforced why victims never come forward...

Because no one will believe their story unless there are multiple people making the same accusations. Except those same people are in the exact same boat. Terrified to come forward because no one else has. You're willing to blindly take George's word why? You don't know him. You've probably never even met him. You only know his persona and the fact he seems like a decent guy. That's no reason to believe him. And that type of logic is reason more people don't come forward...because the person may be well respected and of apparent high character. Well even good people have horrible lapses of judgment.

I'm not saying George is guilty or that we should condemn him and ruin his career. BUT to so quickly dismiss the claim of the accuser until what...another comes forward? Well why would anyone come forward knowing that the people who should be on their side, their allies to sexual assault, you know, the progressive left, are also dismissing the claim because George seems like a great guy?

[Kaleva]

91. Wow. You really went off on a tangent.

Do you even know what giving a person the benefit of a doubt means? And being progressives who are capable of critical thinking and rational thought, we just don't blindly accept the word of just one person. And as the statue of limitations has expired, the accuser himself l is trying his case in the court of public opinion. As for me, I want more evidence before I'm willing to vote to convict George in this court of public opinion.

[Drunken Irishman]

95. Yes. It means people with the illusion of sainthood get the benefit of the doubt...

while the accuser gets nothing. In this thread, we've already seen claims that the accuser is lying - a political hack Republican purposely trying to deflect (maybe even a Trump/Russian bot) and this is on an actual progressive, liberal message board.

I am not asking you to convict George - but to take him at his word? Why? You need evidence? What kind of evidence would placate you?

I'm just surprised liberals would be so dismissing of a victim's story because it came against someone they respect.

[adigal]

111. You sound just like a Republican from Alabama. This really makes me sad.

We believe the victim until evidence is shown one way or the other.
Even Dems don't believe the victim if they like the one accused.

[dsc]

105. Yeah to be honest

The Post story had 30 sources about 4 women with none of the women knowing each other. In addition Moore confirmed many of the details of the stories of 3 of the women. Takei you have one person, an abject denial. If that is what we had with Moore I wouldn't believe that Moore was guilty either without some evidence. If Takei turns out to have known this man after claiming he didn't that would be a huge problem for me.

[uponit7771]

73. I disagree because of multiple people and a KNOWN history with Moore, Red Don etc

... there aren't multiple people and a known history with GT.

I would like to know the balance on this

[Drunken Irishman]

78. As I said to another - even if only one woman came out on Moore, it wouldn't make her less credible.

[uponit7771]

80. Then what is the balance, an accusation doesn't make it so but makes it worthy of investigation ...

... but the reason its easy to believe with Moore is because he has a history of sympathy towards child molesters and dating teenage girls while in his 30s and he's an asshole.

Even Cosby admitted to using drugs on a woman once

Thx in advance for your input

[Drunken Irishman]

86. And George once told Howard Stern he groped a man once.

Even good people have horrible lapses of judgment. I think there is a fine line, to be sure, but just because you've never seen something, or it seems out of character, doesn't make it impossible. It's exactly that type of mentality that leads to people NEVER coming forward with their stories because others won't believe them over the word of someone with a rock solid reputation.

I have no problem taking a step back and saying, "let's see how this plays out". But that's not what these posters are doing. They're already questioning the accuser, his motives and blindly buying George's word. Why? Don't do that. You don't have to crucify him until 100% of the facts are known but also don't assume the accuser is lying and then pushing an idea maybe it's hit job or asking why it took so long. That's exactly what the right is doing right now. Stop it.

George may be telling the truth. He may be covering his butt. We shouldn't just accept his word, though, and dismiss the claim from the accuser. Doing so is absolutely the reason no one comes forward anymore, especially when people push this idea that it's only believable if there are multiple victims. Okay. What if there are but none want to come forward because they're too scared to by themselves exactly because of that reasoning?

[uponit7771]

98. So the proper balance should be "lets see how this plays out?" thx in advance

[Drunken Irishman]

99. The proper balance shouldn't be to say "I believe George!"

Or...

"He doesn't seem the type, so, this can't be true..."

"Gotta believe George on this..."

"He's a target for his anti-Trump tweets!"

"I believe George without reservation!"

"Another disgusting smear campaign!"

"Bannon bots!"

All replies in this thread - all essentially dismissing an accuser. Because we want to like George. If that's your take, you're dismissing sexual assault and are absolutely part of the problem.

Only a handful of replies say, "I want to believe George but I gotta wait and see..."

It's disgusting that on a liberal forum you've got people who can so easily dismiss sexual assault allegations.

But you're right. It's good to know where apparent liberals stand, too. They're not much different than the right.

[uponit7771]

103. Right, ... this is OP worthy ... I've learned something new today at the least

... what a good response is NOT

I think your feed back would help in an OP to give balance to people just acting human in response to someone we truly like.

Thx for your input

[Sneederbunk]

79. +1

[Baclava]

74. "I remember I was coming to and he had my pants down around my ankles and he was groping my crotch"

"We have the drink and he asks if I would like another," Brunton recalls. "And I said sure. So, I have the second one, and then all of a sudden, I begin feeling very disoriented and dizzy, and I thought I was going to pass out. I said I need to sit down and he said sit over here and he had the giant yellow beanbag chair. So I sat down in that and leaned my head back and I must have passed out."

"The next thing I remember I was coming to and he had my pants down around my ankles and he was groping my crotch and trying to get my underwear off and feeling me up at the same time, trying to get his hands down my underwear," Brunton says. "I came to and said, 'What are you doing?!' I said, 'I don't want to do this.' He goes, 'You need to relax. I am just trying to make you comfortable."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-takei-accused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698

-------------------

Doesn't sound good.

[SandyZ]

82. A couple things. Two drinks won't cause passing out. Date rape drug does not act like this story.

Date rape drug, the victim is in and out, almost paralyzed. he would not go out, come back and stay back. Nor have a coherent conversation, or get up and walk out. That is the issue with this story, from victims point of view. Now, more than a couple drinks, causing him to pass out, makes sense. Unconscious is wrong, anyway it happens.

Then there is Howard Stern interview.

[Baclava]

84. A couple drops of chloral hydrate would do it

This is the 80's, roofies were just getting started

[Not Ruth]

102. 80s were the era of ludes

A Cosby fav

[Roland99]

92. Howard Stern interview?

Oh

n/m

[SandyZ]

94. Link is here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029830085#post55

[pnwmom]

97. A date rape drug isn't the only substance that could be added to a drink.

Hopefully there won't be any more accusers coming forward.

[nadine_mn]

83. Not all sexual assaults are the same

There is a difference between going too far with someone vs multiple instances of predatory behavior by someone in a position of power.

I am not saying one is ok and the other is not. But as a female, I can honestly say I have been victimized by predators who have multiple victims and I have been with guys who pushed too far.

I have been intoxicated at a college party and had a guy go from kissing to groping without my consent. Some have backed off when I said no, some kept trying until I physically pushed them away. I have been drunk at a bar and been a little over touchy feely with male friends (never sexual contact, but I am sure I made inappropriate comments).

But then I have also been a minor who had a male teacher who I looked up to abuse that trust, and later on found out I was not the only one...each year he picked a new favorite. That has had a much more lasting effect ... even though things didn't get sexual, just inappropriate intimacy and hugging...than anything from a drunk party.

I don't see George Takei engaging in Roy Moore, Harvey Weinstein or Trump level behavior where he held a position of power over someone and abused that for his own sexual gratification, and got off on the fear and power.

I'm more likely to believe a scenario where signals were misread..esp because he stopped when the guy told him too. It also makes sense given Takei's interview with Stern...he isn't saying he's ever been in a situation where things went too far but he never was in a power position.

If asked the same question, I may also hesitate...thing back over 20 yrs ago when I drank a lot and had no idea what appropriate boundaries were.

[SandyZ]

90. That was another thing about the Stern interview.

It sounds like this was as significant to Takei as the victim. He remembered it. He was not proud of it. The way he made his statements makes me think he might have gone over the boundaries and tends to make me believe that it happened, and something Takei learned from. I also believe his statement from yesterday that this is something he profoundly stands against. I do not think it is a contradiction.

[ChubbyStar]

100. You have it all figured out

Amazing!!!

[moriah]

110. Especially if victim was blacked, rather than passed, out...

... it muddies the waters even further.

In my state, the line is unconsciousness when you consumed something voluntarily. Only if a date rape drug shows in your tox screen does a person generally get charged for alcohol-facilitated sexual assault if they can't prove unconsciousness.

It sucks for victims because aside from getting an admission on tape or there being video/testimony from others demonstrating the victim was passed out it's hard to prove. But for people taking the risk of making a move on someone drinking, the fact blackouts can and do happen and it can be hard to tell if someone *is* blacked out.... I understand why the law is the way it is.

I still recommend remembering the usual consequences of drinking heavily combined with physical exertion -- puke -- before deciding to make a move if the person you're with is/is getting smashed.

[wiley]

87. Bannon Bots

Trump tries to make a move on Putin. Like a demented baboon he shows him his swollen flaming orange area. He's just not all that into you says official Russian news agency. Bannon flips out after reading NYTimes article explaining exactly what the Republic Party of Alabama is waiting for before releasing their full throated endorsement of a pedophile that was polite enough to ask for the parents permission of the girls he stalked. So Moore attacks establishment Republicans and Democrats as ordered by Bannon. Twitter explodes against Takei. So predictable. Takei has the decency to respond. He should have blamed the political opportunists and child molestors behind Moore. George just has too much integrity. He didn't touch anyone. Moore says he remembers the other teenagers he has sex wit because they were good girls. Unlike the 14 year old he says he doesn't know from Mary?

[adigal]

114. This seriously sounds a crazy as the plots Hannity puts out

If you believe the women who accuse people you dont like, you had better believe accusers of people you do like. Or you are just like the Alabama Republicans.

[RhodeIslandOne]

115. You do realize that Roy Moore has NEVER had a shred of integrity, right?

I think that comes into play when comparing him to someone like Takei....

I mean you get that at the very least, right?

[Alea]

118. Sorry George

Under our new system of "denouncement", which was big in 1940's Germany, you need only be accused to be guilty.