Posted without comment -

[DURHAM D]

Link to tweet

[Kirk Lover]

1. Why bother posting it at all

[DURHAM D]

2. Why did you bother to comment? nt

[Kirk Lover]

7. I commented because you posted it without comment.

[SCantiGOP]

48. DURHAM:

Welcome to the "some women are just asking for it" side of the debate.
Hope you are comfortable with the people you meet there.

[leftynyc]

3. I don't care if a woman

is in front of you stark naked - under NO circumstances do you touch her without permission. EVER. That said, Franken shouldn't even consider resigning over this.

[MontanaMama]

6. Yes. n/t

[yallerdawg]

11. Even more importantly.

Don't have your photographer take a picture and give it to the woman!

10 plus years later, she might find it works as a manufactured distraction!

[leftynyc]

17. How about

don't take a picture like that in the first place - because it's in very poor taste.

[yallerdawg]

21. The standard now is "very poor taste?"

No - the standard for Democrats.

Republicans - still just "live boys?"

[leftynyc]

25. Do you really want to swim

in the sewer with republicans? They have zero standards and only contempt for women. I expect FAR more from my side of the aisle.

[yallerdawg]

32. I think "very poor taste" is...

spectacularly better than the other side of the aisle!

[leftynyc]

34. Agree - that doesn't

make it any less very poor taste. Why the need to compare?

[MFM008]

36. Yea

We always do the "right thing"...do you notice how much we LOSE?

[blue cat]

47. +1

[Hamlette]

50. I, like Lindsay Graham, think the picture proves he was joking around.

Otherwise, why take a picture?

The photographer said she was in on the joke and pretend sleeping and Franken was to resuscitate her.

[leftynyc]

53. Then do it with a girlfriend or a wife

but not with a colleague. I can't believe I have to explain this.

[stevenleser]

61. 99% of the time I would agree with you. In this case, the collegial relationship is entertainment

and not that of Weinstein and actors looking for a job from him, but fellow entertainers.

Is Ryan O'Neal touching Allie McGraw inappropriately in this picture, because she is his colleague:

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/ftrDlMJX5xzN8GU2P2uP1nFeGZo/fit-in/550x550/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2012/08/33/1/192/1922564/5a565f5b3303e5a2_Fourimage.jpg

No and the reason is, he is touching her as a part of an entertainment role they are playing. Al Franken alleges his photograph, where everyone asked so far said he is not touching her but has his hands hovering above her, is part of a comedy act.

[leftynyc]

67. This was on the plane

on the way home, not in front of an audience as part of a comedy act. And not sure what you're talking about with O'Neal/McGraw, those are scenes from a movie.

[stevenleser]

69. Filming a movie isnt in front of an audience either, but its part of the entertainment.

Franken alleges that this picture was part of entertaining people.

[leftynyc]

70. Who was he trying to entertain?

And you're being very disingenuous comparing a movie scene to this. He did it because he thought it was funny. He was wrong and that's why he's apologized.

[stevenleser]

71. That's correct, he thought the photo would be funny, he was a comedian, and he says she consented

to the photo in advance because people would think it was funny.

If he is lying about that, he deserves to be burned.

[pintobean]

75. Where did he say she consented to the photo in advance?

I must have missed that. Got a link?

[questionseverything]

78. there is nothing in the photo worth being burned ovr

wether she was in on the joke or not

groping thru that vest is not physically possible

one moment of poor taste should in no way be a life changing event for franken and certainly not for the country

do you have a link to support that franken said she was in on it?

[Ms. Toad]

84. Please provide a link to this statement by Franken.

Nothing I have read, including his apology, says she consented (in advance or at any other time) to the photo.

And Snopes seems to confirm that the allegations about it being staged with her consent are fake news.

https://www.snopes.com/photographer-said-franken-image-was-staged/

[stevenleser]

83. Take a look at this. You can see the general atmosphere at these events...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029861640

She was touching, grabbing and gyrating on everyone. It was a part of the act.

[leftynyc]

86. I saw that over the weekend.

Seems her outrageous outrage was merely for show but did the damage she was obviously looking for.

[stevenleser]

87. And now, there is no question. There is a pattern here.

Very disappointing.

You were right from the get go.

[Drahthaardogs]

88. Or comedy at a USO show

There's that too

[yallerdawg]

4. There may be something to this "ethics" investigation Senator Franken called for.

"Hell hath no fury like a former comedian/satirist getting played as a distraction."

[Madam45for2923]

8. Plus it sets up the Republicans -including abuser in our WH- to be investigated too.

[madaboutharry]

5. This thread is not going to go well.

She is who she is. And it doesn't matter that she has sexualized her image, no person should ever experience sexual harassment or be on the recieving end of inappropriate behavior.

[yallerdawg]

26. 400 plus recs.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029853144

[Demsrule86]

28. Based on what I have heard this is not sexual harassment.

Most likely this is the work of Hannity and Stone.

[MFM008]

56. Thats if you believe her

I do not.
I believe she looked at this picture, (he is NOT touching her) and it made her angry and she is a partisan, she thought I can MILK this situation and perhaps take out a Liberal democrat senator.
He apologizes to her for feeling affronted by the awkward fumbling stupidity.
He apologizes to the USO troop as well,
I presume he did not sexually victimize any of them, he apologized because it was the right
thing to do.
So a raging liberal is going to put his career and reputation into the greedy little hands of a
right wing hack ?
No sorry, this is a right wing Roger Stone hit job.
A he said she said to try to remove
an annoying liberal from the Senate.
Then maggot ices the cake last night about where Frankens hands were in other pictures.
The aggressive pussy grabbing rapist golden shower boy

NEED I SAY MORE??????????????????????????????

[madaboutharry]

63. I am speaking more generally.

What I mean to say is that believing someone should not be based on whether or not someone can say "they invited it." That's not fair. Harassers are responsible for their conduct.

This situation with Fraken is turning out to have a few more layers to it than first appeared. He shouldn't have had that photo taken. But I think a lot of people are jumping on the condemnation bandwagon with their own agenda.

[treestar]

9. right wing women

claim to be tough and that women who complain of harassment are being delicate snowflakes. So there is a kind of inconsistency there.

[Inkfreak]

15. The only inconsistency going on here is how some DUers treat the accusers.

[treestar]

18. Well why should a right wing woman

who claims to be so tough, not be seen differently to someone who doesn't claim to be so tough? If they think it is weak for women to not just ignore it, get over it, and kick their ass (they will often say the likes of "bother me, and I'll kick your ass, not go whining to the police" or what have you). So why do they get to complain about it?

[Inkfreak]

27. Lol, hey..you wanna give a pass to guys for politics..thats on you.

I’m not.

[Demsrule86]

31. Then don't vote for him...of course the only other choice is a Republican...

This is not even close and most likely manufactured.

[Inkfreak]

38. No sweat. I wont. I dont live in his state.

[Demsrule86]

82. I mean that generically...if the Democrat is a bridge too far and offends you in some way ...well

of course the GOP candidate is always a choice...not a good one of course for our side.

[treestar]

33. Huh? How is that response justified?

You are the one giving all right wingers a pass even though they think it is weak when WE complain of this stuff.

[Inkfreak]

37. Lol!!!

[treestar]

41. Huh? Why does righty get to have it both ways?

They can make fun of snowflakes who complain about it and then when it's them, complain about it?

[moriah]

89. Because we aren't them.

And the moment we let ourselves forget our ethical standards, we let ourselves forget what makes us different from them.

It sucks because no, they don't want to hold to our ethical standards, but still expect us to hold to them. As a matter of fact, they drink it up when we *don't* apply the standards we advocate equally -- it tastes like victory to them.

We are being trolled, people.

They chose to go with the Tweeden story because they KNEW we would react like this, and anticipated it.

As a matter of fact, there's significant evidence highly-rated MAvGA accounts and suspiciously anonymous "news sites" are pushing material that includes massive amounts of things that look like slut-shaming attached to rumors discrediting her. Why else would the trolls be making these if they weren't bait to make us look bad?

We don't need to bite on the bawdy nature of her act or her pictures, and pretty much my personal rule is if I see material pushing that narrative, I'm assuming the person sharing it at the very least bought into the bait. Even if they don't understand why it IS bait.

[treestar]

90. Our ethical standards should not allow

mere accusation to bring people down. And we should not allow the right to win because of our so grand ethical standards. They will win. We've seen it with President Pussy Grabber. They know that and play us. Meanwhile they get their own people in regardless.

It's like saying I don't shoot people and when another country starts shooting us, we don't shoot back because we don't shoot people due to our ethical standards. So we all die.

Screw that.

[moriah]

91. Everyone has their own hill. The Quakers...

... were willing to risk their lives for PR victories during conflicts where Natives were either allied with other nations or were justifiably angry about things being done to them. And that level of personal pacifism isn't something I'd ever demand of anyone.

Yet, strangely enough, the person showing that very type of pacifist, PR-oriented reaction is... Al Franken himself.

Yes, he's categorically denied ever propositioning anyone for a sexual encounter in a bathroom. Which is easy enough. I'm pretty sure even at the lowest points in his financial standing, he's had a better place to take someone for a tryst than a bloody bathroom. If that person is at all credible, they must have misunderstood a joke he doesn't even remember making. He didn't even say "I don't recall it that way".

He's not denying his hands ever went south of the waist in a photo op. For all I know, they might have done so many times, maybe even in response to the same sort of joking from the woman first.

But he's certainly going the safe route. The honest one. The one with integrity.

----

Our ethical standards should involve listening to the alleged victims and the accused's responses, considering both, and then making our own conclusions.... but we *must* listen, and consider. Truly listen and consider.

Then, the second part of our ethical standard must be the recognition that while all crossing of boundaries is bad, the power dynamic of the alleged perpetrator and the vulnerability of the alleged victim are factors that prioritize what allegations get examined first. There IS an objective difference between between some cases of even mere ass-grabbing -- if the alleged perpetrator has a power position over the victim, and especially the power differential inherent when the ass grabbed belongs to a minor. ESPECIALLY the combination of abusing the power of one's office to find vulnerable juveniles to target for it and worse.

That's how we fight the "everyone does it" narrative of false equivalency.

[treestar]

92. Who determines who has power?

It is not always going to be clear. Plus it IS possible that maybe I do want to have a relationship with the powerful man (Monica Lewinsky). And we don't have to "listen" long to obvious frauds. This is getting so out of hand. We have to go back to the issues. Why should Moore be defeated over how he will vote in the Senate. Why would we want to lose a Senator who votes the way we need and why would someone who votes that way on our issues be someone who also abuses women? We can take that into account.

[moriah]

93. If we don't listen to the story, how can we say it's obviously false?

Seriously, listening and believing aren't the same thing.

But if you refuse to even listen, to even *briefly* consider whether it's plausible, then you might as well place yourself in the camp of the Evangelicals who are supporting Moore now more *because* he was accused.

[leftynyc]

19. That's not true

That poster does have a point-right wingers consistently say Democrats are far too sensitive and should lighten up and not be so PC. All the charges should be investigated and let the chips fall where they may. It's long past time that women shouldn't have to be afraid to come forward for fear of their jobs, careers or reputations.

[Inkfreak]

24. Its absolutely true.

[leftynyc]

29. You're entitled to your opinion

and I'm entitled to think it's ridiculous. That's life.

[dawg]

10. Two things:

1. No amount of salacious behavior makes it acceptable, or even understandable, for one person to sexually harass another.

2. Tweeden's public "sex object" persona does make it much more understandable as to why a former comedian like Franken would have resorted to cheap jokes like the photo and a skit where he kisses her. It plays to her shtick.

[Corgigal]

13. A woman got a right to make a living,

however Roger Stone was ringing his own bell again the day before.

That makes its all suspect. Now it enters political, not criminal element.

[Duppers]

58. It is all political.

It was a hit job.

Many OPs on the Greatest page are highlighting that fact.

[Inkfreak]

14. What other activities can women do that negates them being able to speak out about being groped?

I just wanna be able to tell my kid now. Thanks in advance.

[treestar]

35. The can make the claim that it's all PC crap

and that it is weak and whiney to complain about it.

They can point out that Mary was 14 when she was married, implying that 14-year-olds are ready to consider dating, no matter how old the man.

They can wear a shirt that says Trump can grab their pussy anytime. They can defend the Orange Pussy Grabber as just boy talk or locker room talk, nothing to get upset about or use to think he should not be POTUS.

Why does the right winger always get to have it both ways?

I feel strongly about this as I have exposure to misogynistic, mean right-wing women. They do exist. We are not all great feminists.

[panader0]

43. "Groped"? Franken is not even touching her.

Close, but not touching. Mugging for the camera.

[Duppers]

57. Please read more on the Franken-Tweeden story

You're not up-to-date.

[Inkfreak]

79. Nope. Im all caught up. Thanks!

[oberliner]

16. Attacking the woman who makes the accusation of sexual harrassment?

Very classy.

[rzemanfl]

23. So credibility is not an issue? Motive is not an issue? If a woman accuses a man

that's all it takes? No cross-examination, just an instant adjudication of guilt? Wow.

[treestar]

39. Why does the mere accusation make someone an angel

there is no such thing as political motivation, by a right winger who didn't say anything about it until a time when it was useful to use because so many Republican men were getting accused. We are all playing into their hands, giving her attention and forgetting all about Moore and the Pussy Grabber in Chief.

[rzemanfl]

20. Fuck. This. Shit. n/t

[BoneyardDem]

22. What Franken did was absolutley wrong

He was right to apologize...and I thought it was an honest and thoughtful apology.

I find her attempt to be the blushing victim of 10 years of anger and humiliation over the incident to be manufactured.

[yardwork]

60. I agree on both points.

[suffragette]

72. Yep, agree on both points, too.

[NightWatcher]

30. She could be on the set of a porn on break between sucking dicks, but if someone

whom she did not give permission, grabbed her and kissed her, they'd be just as wrong.

It's about permission and consent and nothing else.

[rzemanfl]

46. Thank you for coming to the defense of fluffers. I will not inquire into the motives of

the kisser under the circumstances you posit. Ewwww!

[orangecrush]

40. It's not about her sexuality

It's about her right wing leanings.

Which are made obvious by a couple of the pics.

[Iggo]

44. SO FUCKING WHAT?

[malaise]

45. K & R

Truth will out

[MontanaMama]

65. Yes.

You are again the voice of reason malaise. Al is a smart one...he knows the whole truth will come out and that is why he has opened himself to an investigation. He will withstand the momentary discomfort - I hope. The fact that Roger Stone was on the forefront of this speaks volumes. Everything that man touches is shit.

[Dawson Leery]

49. Right wingers are tough until it suits their needs.

Then they are perpetual victims.

[pintobean]

74. So, women who come forward and report abuse are weak?

Fuck.

People should think about what they're posting.

[tiptonic]

51. Help

Al thought it was all in fun. Dump but innocent mistake. Bet miss Leeann ends up with a job at Faux news.

[jalan48]

52. If a woman presents herself as a sexual object is it OK for men to view her as a sexual object?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Yes, but they don't get to kiss or touch her without her consent.

[jalan48]

55. Thanks. Makes sense to me.

[marble falls]

59. I've decided: even gun carrying, bosom baring Trump supporters deserve to have their boundries ....

respected and be allowed to open to whom they decide to do it for.

The one question I have and it hasn't been answered in any news source or by either Franken or the gun carrying, bosom baring Trump supporter is whether she was in on the joke photo or not.

[Ms. Toad]

85. The gun carrying, bosom baring Trump suppporter said she was not, in her initial statement.

But he didn’t stop there.

The tour wrapped and on Christmas Eve we began the 36-hour trip home to L.A. After 2 weeks of grueling travel and performing I was exhausted. When our C-17 cargo plane took off from Afghanistan I immediately fell asleep, even though I was still wearing my flak vest and Kevlar helmet.

It wasn’t until I was back in the US and looking through the CD of photos we were given by the photographer that I saw this one:

I couldn’t believe it. He groped me, without my consent, while I was asleep.

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

[Gothmog]

62. Thanks for posting

[Steven Maurer]

64. Sorry, but this is "slut shaming". PERIOD.

Seriously, people.

The only thing that is important is the photographer saying that the photo was staged and she was conscious and in on the joke.

THAT is what calls this into question. Nothing about her history or political beliefs.

[packman]

66. Sounds like what the Repukes do when accused of something

Run down the victim - Not a good post- Regardless of who she is or was, it has little bearing on her value as a human that was taken advantage of

[SandyZ]

68. I am not much into shaming a woman to silence her.

[SpankMe]

73. I don't see slut-shaming or victim-blaming

The tone to me is more "she's no snowflake". She's a bit more of a "tough lady", so to be portrayed as a meek little flower who was emotionally damaged by big, bad Al seems disingenuous.

Everyone agrees that a past as a nude model or SWAT team toughie doesn't lessen the culpability of any future abuser. But let's not pretend that Ms. Tweeden's dignity was really damaged by this. Franken is still the bad guy in this episode. But it's not like he titty-grabbed Jessica Tandy.

[samnsara]

76. i dont care is she was a hooker...no woman or man should be

touched without their consent. Its like trespassing. I'm not saying this is what happened here.. I'm staying away from everything for a few days....I love and respect Al and was hoping he would consider a run for Prez. Guess that's out now? Hoping and crossing my fingers this was a one time only prank gone bad.

if not, then he needs to get help.....

[questionseverything]

80. i still hope he runs for pres

the woman has a right to her feelings but it is physically impossible to grope anyone thru that jacket

[Mike Nelson]

77. Makes me...

...admire Al Franken's reaction even more. Of course, there is no consent to assault this woman - even if the photos look like Trump is given permission to grope. You just don't do it.

[MineralMan]

81. No comment? I can see why.