Neil deGrasse Tyson: A Lunar Eclipse flat-Earthers have never seen.

[kpete]

Link to tweet

[Calculating]

1. Are Flat Earthers even legit, or just a bunch of real life trolls?

Surely almost nobody can be so stupid unless they have legit mental problems. I'm starting to think the whole movement is just made up of a bunch trolls like those Satanist groups trying to put up demon statues in public.

[NastyRiffraff]

2. I dunno, but I never underestimate the capacity for stupidity

There are people who don't believe in evolution, climate change, or the need for vaccinations.
There are people who believe in exorcism as a way to "cure" mental illness.
There are people who...no, I'm not going to get into the religious stuff, or this post would never end.

[Calculating]

7. Those are slightly different though

It's not like you can literally SEE the proof in many of those cases. Many leave room for argument or alternative thought. You can LITERALLY see that the Earth isn't flat. If it WAS, you would be able to drive or fly off the edge of it. Claiming the Earth is flat is about as ridiculous as claiming that gravity doesn't exist. It's attempting to argue against easily observable facts. It's not like Climate change where there's wiggle room to argue about the models not turning out right, or that climate change happened in the past so it must be unrelated to our activity. Religious things cannot be proven or disproven at all so they aren't even comparable.

[NastyRiffraff]

8. But if someone is anti-science

(and yes, those people exist, and in droves) they can't make the connection between gravity and the roundness of the Earth. They see, with their own eyes, the flatness of the fruited plains and their "common sense" tells them that the earth is flat, otherwise they'd roll right off of it.

To study the anti-science people in their natural habitat, observe the Religious Right.

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. Except you can see the proof in all of those cases

Evolution? We have something called DNA, we know that humans are closely related to chimpanzees, bonobos, and Neanderthals in such a way that indicates a common ancestor (more recent for Neanderthals than chimps/bonobos). We have records of atmospheric CO2 going back nearly sixty years, and global temperature averages, polar ice measurements, etc. The atmospheric CO2 keeps going up, average temperature keeps going up, sea ice density keeps going down, so we know that increased atmospheric CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) are driving observed climate change. Vaccines? We know they work. (look at the differences in infant mortality between say 1900, and now. And when's the last time you heard of a polio epidemic in the USA?). People being ignorant doesn't mean you can't see the proof, because it's there.

[Egnever]

20. Evolution is obvious

if you have had kittens or puppies that are muts evolution is written all over them.

[pangaia]

26. Too complicated to those in question.

Flat earth is.. simple..

[Brother Buzz]

4. Up until recently, I understood they were just a bunch of eggheads....

having fun with it.

I'm not so sure today.

[Nevernose]

14. Thats how one of the orgs started

IIRC, one online flat earth org started as a subtle joke, a social satire, and was eventually overcome by ACTUAL flat earthers.

[Cicada]

12. Oh they believe it. Look at the insanity on you tube, people are totally nuts

It is amazing how many people believe super insane nonsense.

[alittlelark]

13. They are VERY real... my mother is one of them.

[lagomorph777]

37. I'm so sorry for you.

There is mental illness in my family and it's a constant stress.

[Nevernose]

15. Biblical literalists and conspiracy theorists

The Bible says the earth is flat and the universe is geocentric (or at least suggests it)? Then by God the Earth is flat and the sun moves around us. A test for the truly faithful or some shit. Of course literalists always seem to be incredibly selective about what’s literal and what’s figurative, making the Bible an interesting tool for them. Kind of like a combination carpenter’s hammer/psychiatric diagnostic tool. They can build their world uniquely while we get amazing insights.

All religion sounds insane to me, however. I’m not sure how Christians feel so confident dismissing the Alien Lizard People as lunatics, but are happy to accept talking serpents and virgin births and sacrificial demigods. However, to 90% of the most devout Christians I know, it sounds crazy to them sometimes, too. My wife, for instance, is a devout Christian, but would be first in line to admit it all sounds silly sometimes. Whatever. Doesn’t hurt me and makes her happy.

The related but different subset is the Conspiracy Theorists. Some of them are quite bright and often well educated. But they like, more than anything else, to have secret knowledge that the rest of the world doesn’t see. It makes them superior, much the same way that religious nut jobs usually love feeling simultaneously oppressed and superior to their peers.

Then there’s the clearly insane ones, like that rocket guy who wants to get all the way to 1500 feet to prove the earth is flat. Second attempt after massive injuries the first time. Apparently hadn’t thought to put a camera in a model rocket (complicated, but simpler than building a people-rocket), nor to put gas in his truck and drive to one of the many fine mountains in his area, all of which are higher than 1500 feet.

So far I’ve resisted making fun of him.

I feel sad for him. No one loves him enough or even cares enough to stop him. He’s clearly a threat to himself, if not others, and is clearly not thinking clearly. Or at least, in the categories of “cares” and “not stupid enough to think the world is flat and/or batshit crazy,” there’s no one who falls in the middle of the Venn diagram.

[Girard442]

28. Actually, I think rocket guy just wants to fly his rocket and is milking the Flat-Earthers for $$$.

[Hekate]

31. I don't recall any verse in the Bible commenting on the shape of the Earth...

I think people not involved in mathematics just believed the evidence of their eyes and "common sense."

Two cultures that did go in for math and geometry in a big way were the Greeks and the Egyptians, but they had a tiny leisure class that could spend time thinking about it and a larger professional class that could put it to practical use. Columbus didn't "discover" the shape of the Earth, he just used the knowledge as a mariner.

Most people throughout history were just busy getting on with their lives herding sheep and farming small plots with their own manual labor. They didn't have time for much speculation. The Earth looked "flat" (with mountains), so why waste time arguing about it?

Elaborate Christian theology arose in Medieval times, and cast a long shadow having as much to do with politics and power as anything else. American "evangelical" religion is a case by itself -- adherents tend to be ignorant of anything a European Christian would recognize as actual theology.

Since the Enlightenment, I think Western cultures have counted on public education to build on whatever scientific advances had happened and were happening. You didn't have to be an elite at the pinnacle of education to be taught the basics, and if the culture around you trusted in the basics -- well you get the point.

Current American education and current American popular culture have proven how fragile that can actually be, and how fragile democracy can be.

But back to my original point -- it's been some years since I sat down to read the Bible, but I don't recall the shape of the Earth being actually discussed therein. People tend to project, and tend to interpret.

[Nevernose]

34. There are echoes of earlier cosmology in bits and pieces

Probably extrapolated from a similar Egyptian worldview. Essentially, the people in the neighborhood of the eastern Mediterranean — including Hebrews, early Greeks, Canaanites, etc — believed the Earth was big and flat. Outside of the earth the universe was filled with fire, and separating us from the fires of chaos was a bronze dome. The stars are tiny holes that allow a little peek through the dome, and is blocked by the sun chariot during the day. Geb And Nut in Egypt, Gaea and Ouranos in Greece evolved their stories from this, the Hebrews eventually dropped it all together.

But all these things evolved and mixed over thousands of years, and at one pre-Biblical point they really DID believe it.

Artifacts of this prehistoric paradigm pop up here and there in the Bible. The four corners of the earth are mentioned twice. Most of us take that to be figurative, but some literalists take that to mean the earth is flat — because how does a sphere have corners? And how does God stop the sun for Joshua if it’s not the sun moving but the earth?

There’s a couple of other “hints” of a flat earth that I can’t remember off hand. There’s also unicorns and zombies, too. It’s best not to treat it as a science textbook.

[lagomorph777]

38. Columbus' departure from accepted truth was the SIZE of the Earth.

Everybody knew it was a sphere, but Columbus said it was smaller than the known size, which Aristarchus had measured 1500 years before him. He did that to sell the idea that India was a short trip.

It's suspected that he knew damned well the real size, but had knowledge of the New World, based on the Vikings, Sir Henry Sinclair (Templars) etc. The "Small Earth" theory may have been a total ruse.

[Hop David]

24. Yup, trolling is a thing

Saying outrageous dumb stuff is a great way to get free publicity.

Who had heard of B.o.B. before Tyson made him Famous? Neil increased his recognition 10-fold.

Tyson's policy of feeding the trolls has energized this wacky movement.

[procon]

3. The flat-Earthers lack the intellectual capacity to understand that photo, Mr. Tyson. nt

[kpete]

5. How about THIS one?

[lindysalsagal]

10. "IT'S THE JESUS PENIS!!!!!!"

[Nitram]

6. That's if the disc is perfectly edge-on.

The Moon is flat, too. The two discs are clearly parallel. Duh.

[Jim Lane]

9. Now it's TYSON misusing an apostrophe to make a plural????

I can only assume that he had just read some Trump tweet and was completely rattled.

[sakabatou]

11. FE's think the moon isn't real and is just a projection of some sort

[central scrutinizer]

16. It is flat!

But the flat part faces the moon, not the edge. It's like holding a quarter up and blocking the moon.

[caraher]

17. Please tell me you're just trolling!

I've had too many obviously fruitless arguments with True Believers

[Bucky]

22. Thank you!

That's literally why they call it a quarter moon

To hear these Roundy extremists talk, you'd think the moon would look like a 25% pie chart. I expect that to be the next NASA Photoshop fake fakery

[skypilot]

36. The how come we don't all just slide off?

Does gravity work sideways too?

[L. Coyote]

18. Can we use this image for the GoFundMe campaign for the expedition to

photograph the edge.

[Bucky]

21. Obviously faked by NASA

Where is the turtle's shadow? Where are the elephants'?

Come up with some new photo shops, you Roundy propagandists!!

[hatrack]

25. You rang?

Link to tweet

[blogslut]

29. Great A'Tuin

Berilia, Tubul, Great T'Phon, and Jerakeen.

[Hekate]

32. Brilliant!

Thank you!

[demmiblue]

33. Brilliant!

[Oneironaut]

23. The problem with our society is that every opinion is treated as equally informed.

Alex Jones’s opinion on science is treated as equal to Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Trump’s opinion is treated equally to climate scientists. “Why are you ignoring alternate opinions” they screech if you try to explain how a scientist’s word should be given more weight.

It’s like we don’t care about experience, education, or knowledge anymore. High School dropout Jimmy’s opinion on how electricity is actually God shooting energy through the wires is said to deserve as much thought as an actual scientist.

I don’t care what Trump, Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, etc. have to say about climate change any more than I care what Flat Earthers say about the earth’s shape. They both purposely ignore information, attack anyone who tries to inform them, and demand that their uninformed opinion be given equal attention (if not all the attention).

[Girard442]

27. So, if I'm on the phone in NY at 6:30 p.m EST and it's dark here...

...talking to my friend in California where it's 3:30 p.m. PST and the sun is shining -- who's managing that part of the conspiracy? I mean, that's pretty impressive, don't you think?

[whopis01]

35. The simple explanation is that your friend is on on the conspiracy... n/t

[Girard442]

39. I knew that little weasel was up to something!

[Bleacher Creature]

30. Really? This is what we've become? In what's about to be 2018???

Don't get me wrong, the tweet is great, but it's a real problem when one of the world's preeminent astro-physicists is taking time out of his day to debunk something that was originally debunked 400 years ago.