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LAS14

(13,865 posts)
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:20 AM Dec 2017

The Al Franken flap has produced a good thing.

It has raised to the forefront the idiocy of "zero tolerance" and "the default should be to believe the woman." Faced with putting these ideas into action in all cases has made DUers (and, I hope thousands/millions) of other people realize that "Zero tolerance is zero common sense." (Another poster). I'm not saying the accusers are lying. Dunno. I'm just saying get real. Don't put sex in some sort of Victorian/Puritan magical category. Care about the environment and the poor and our health care!

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The Al Franken flap has produced a good thing. (Original Post) LAS14 Dec 2017 OP
It should NOT be I believe the women janterry Dec 2017 #1
Exactly SHRED Dec 2017 #4
+1, if we wanted to accept things as the come with no discernment we'd be republicans uponit7771 Dec 2017 #17
It's not about sex, it's about power. zaj Dec 2017 #2
In can we SAS this with the McMartin witch trials nm bagelsforbreakfast Dec 2017 #3
Allegations of sexual misbehavior should be like commenting about bombs on an airplane. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2017 #5
Are you saying the default should be to assume the women are lying? oberliner Dec 2017 #6
Welcome to Full Ignore. eppur_se_muova Dec 2017 #8
If "the default should be to believe the woman" is idiocy - what should the default be? oberliner Dec 2017 #9
It should be to pay careful attention to the facts. All of the facts. LAS14 Dec 2017 #12
It should be to take the charges seriously dsc Dec 2017 #18
As a woman, I'm kind of tired of that. Pacifist Patriot Dec 2017 #14
I thought the same ProudLib72 Dec 2017 #7
Same Senators have decried zero tolerance in other contexts. delisen Dec 2017 #11
Even Manson got a day in court....... Bengus81 Dec 2017 #10
trying to disappear H Clinton and Franken - two delisen Dec 2017 #13
How about we judge people we like the same way we judge people we dislike . DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2017 #15
It's also made my 2020 primary choice really fucking easy BannonsLiver Dec 2017 #16
Victorian/Puritan has nothing to do with it, RandomAccess Dec 2017 #19
 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
1. It should NOT be I believe the women
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:21 AM
Dec 2017

It should be, I respect and listen to women.

I respect and listen to all women who make allegations. But as a reasonable person, I wait until the facts are in to make a determination about credibility. To do otherwise, is foolish

 

zaj

(3,433 posts)
2. It's not about sex, it's about power.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:25 AM
Dec 2017

Puritanical restrictions are also about power.

The question is, did Franken abuse his power. Clearly others have and it's possible Franken has been doing that as well.

But I'm not sure if that's even being claimed by some of those reporting inappropriate behavior.

But the focus shouldn't be on *sex* but on *abuse of power*.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,265 posts)
5. Allegations of sexual misbehavior should be like commenting about bombs on an airplane.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:27 AM
Dec 2017

I.e., it shouldn't be considered a joking matter to anyone and is something that needs to be investigated. But it shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value, either.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
9. If "the default should be to believe the woman" is idiocy - what should the default be?
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:39 AM
Dec 2017

That was the point of my question.

dsc

(52,203 posts)
18. It should be to take the charges seriously
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:40 PM
Dec 2017

investigate the charges, and determine what actually happened to the best of our abilities using the same standards we use in other investigations. We are able to do this in other aspects of our lives without that much difficulty.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,659 posts)
14. As a woman, I'm kind of tired of that.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:13 PM
Dec 2017

Why can't the default be "assume all situations are not identical so a responsible investigation is warranted?" Then take the woman seriously (with both respect and skepticism in balance) and get to the bottom of it. I don't want to be automatically believed or thought a liar. I'd like to be treated like an adult deserving of my unique circumstances being addressed as such.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
7. I thought the same
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:31 AM
Dec 2017

When I saw the phrase "zero tolerance" being used in connection with Franken, I thought, "And how has that worked out in schools?" We've had a lot of moronic decisions made about students based on zero tolerance, more than enough to realize the policy makes zero sense. Yet we are applying it to Congress?! I guess if the rethugs can have their trickle down economics then we can have our zero tolerance. I just wish we had chosen another failed idea that actually served our needs the way the rethugs did.

delisen

(6,077 posts)
11. Same Senators have decried zero tolerance in other contexts.
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:50 AM
Dec 2017

There is something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.........but it sure as hell is troubling.

Bengus81

(6,965 posts)
10. Even Manson got a day in court.......
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 11:40 AM
Dec 2017

Franken....eh,nah we just need him out of sight,out of mind ASAP..........

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,729 posts)
15. How about we judge people we like the same way we judge people we dislike .
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:17 PM
Dec 2017

The DU jury system where we adjudicate whether a post is to be removed or not without knowing the author has a kind of merit.

BannonsLiver

(16,671 posts)
16. It's also made my 2020 primary choice really fucking easy
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 12:38 PM
Dec 2017

Gillibrand, Booker, Harris, Moulton, Warren have been eliminated.

 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
19. Victorian/Puritan has nothing to do with it,
Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:23 PM
Dec 2017

magical or not, as others have said. And you do everyone, including yourself, a terrible disservice by conflating sex with sexual harassment and assault. Those are control over and violence against women sexualized.

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