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davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 09:36 AM Jan 2014

FBAR/FACTA Tax Update for Democrats Abroad

For those of you who live abroad:

2014 REPORT TO MEMBERS BY THE FBAR/FATCA TASKFORCE

In 2011, the Democrats Abroad international Executive Committee appointed the FBAR/FATCA Task Force to examine the reporting mandates imposed on overseas Americans by the Foreign Bank Account Report (“FBAR” also known as Form TD-F 90-22.1) and the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act (“FATCA”). Although the FBAR has been a reporting requirement to Treasury for many Americans(1) with bank accounts in foreign banks since 1972, it is only since 2004 that enforcement has escalated. FATCA was enacted by Congress in 2010 for the purpose of providing information to the IRS that it will use to identify and apprehend Americans making use of illicit schemes, structures, accounts and facilities to move untaxed earnings out of the US(2).

This report contains four things:

A summary of the key provisions of FATCA
Democrats Abroad’s position on FATCA
The impact of FATCA on Americans living outside of the US
Democrats Abroad’s Recommended Reforms

The Two Principal Provisions of FATCA

FATCA is a complicated piece of legislation and the way some of its provisions are interpreted is in constant flux. What follows is a summary of its two basic components.

Reporting Requirement for Foreign Financial Institutions (FFIs)
Most Foreign Financial Institutions—such as banks and brokerage houses—are required to enter into an agreement with the IRS to identify their US account holders, disclosing their names, addresses and account details. Any US financial institution making a payment to a non-compliant FFI must withhold 30% of the gross payment.

Reporting requirement for individual US citizens and their families
A US citizen living outside the US must file the FATCA Form 8938 if he or she holds or has signatory control over funds in FFIs totaling $200,000 in aggregate at the end of the year or $300,000 in aggregate at any time during the year. The thresholds for couples filing jointly are $400,000 and $600,000, respectively. There are severe penalties for under-reporting income in any FFI. The thresholds for US-based citizens are much lower and US residents with signature power over jointly held overseas accounts may have to report even though the overseas citizen may not have to.(3)

Democrats Abroad Position on FATCA

Although Democrats Abroad supports strong policies to improve tax compliance and limit tax evasion, we Americans living abroad now find our financial lives exposed to a degree of scrutiny – under threat of severe penalties, fines and even imprisonment – to which Americans living stateside are not subjected. Implicit in this stringent reporting regulation is the unfair and unjustified suspicion that Americans living abroad are tax cheats and/or money launderers, which clearly the vast majority are not. The Task Force has been working for more than three years to outline to legislators and regulators the nefarious implications of FATCA compliance and to promote reforms that both preserve the law’s intent and provide relief to law-abiding overseas Americans excessively burdened by it.

FATCA’s Impact

Using evidence gained in a survey of our global membership - which generated thousands of responses - and a website to collect tax stories from overseas Americans, in addition to numerous inquiries, accounts and complaints from members around the world, Democrats Abroad has identified and documented FATCA’s unintended adverse impact on overseas Americans. These are examples, in brief, of some of the issues raised by overseas Americans in addressing the challenge of meeting FBAR and FATCA compliance:

Impacts on employment opportunity:

Discriminatory impact on US senior managers in foreign companies where an American signature on corporate accounts triggers a reporting obligation to the IRS;
Loss of job opportunities at all levels for Americans in multi-national corporations due to the cost of compensating for US tax reporting;
Weakening of entrepreneurial opportunities for overseas Americans due to onerous reporting obligations.

Impacts on personal affairs and privacy:

Escalation in tax filing complexity and cost;
Inability to open new financial accounts or forced closure of existing accounts;
Assets and accounts held jointly with non-nationals subject to IRS scrutiny;
Exorbitant and confiscatory penalties for non-compliance;

Democrats Abroad’s Recommended Reforms

From our analysis of the data on the impact and our discussions with regulators, legislators and tax advisors, the Task Force established the following proposed reforms:

Define a foreign or offshore account that must be reported as an account in a country other than one’s country of residence, thereby recognizing our legitimate need for local banking services. This would also relieve the IRS of the burden and distraction of scrutinizing filings that detail legitimate overseas accounts;
Raise the FATCA reporting threshold for overseas Americans to $1 million, therefore putting the focus on taxpayers with wealth that is sizeable enough to justify the costly and complex investment structures normally used to conceal assessable earnings 4)
Index the reporting threshold to inflation so that it goes up every year just as the Section 911 income exclusion does;
Add a provision that excuses anyone who does not owe taxes (because of the Section 911 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion or any other exemption or a tax treaty) from the obligation to file FATCA form 8983, regardless of the reporting threshold;
Merge the FBAR reporting requirement with the developing FATCA legislation to eliminate duplication in filings;
Offer true amnesty to overseas Americans who are delinquent taxpayers, inviting them to pay what they may owe and restore their status as tax-compliant citizens.

Urgent, achievable action is Democrats Abroad's priority

In the best of all possible worlds, the US would have a policy of residency-based taxation rather than citizen-based taxation, and so foreign financial account reporting requirements established to catch tax cheats would focus exclusively on Americans who reside in the US and shift untaxed earnings abroad. US federal debt levels and funding needs suggest that it is not realistic to expect the US Congress to give serious consideration to residency-based taxation in the near term nor for the IRS to ease up on its implementation of the law.(5)

Urgency in providing relief to overseas Americans is our highest priority.

Our efforts, and those of some non-partisan organizations of overseas Americans, over more than three years to lessen the adverse impacts of the law have yielded significant results. The FATCA threshold for all individuals was originally $50,000 —regardless of where they lived. Democrats Abroad and others lobbied successfully to get the threshold raised for overseas Americans to the $200,000/$400,000 thresholds noted in the first section.(6) Our on-going advocacy plan will continue to focus on reforming the regulations established by the IRS and Treasury because we are confident that our reforms are achievable in the short run and will be effective.

Democrats Abroad will continue to provide full-throated support to strong, good faith efforts to block and catch Americans using illegal means to avoid paying taxes; we will also continue to urge the government to recognize that most overseas Americans are honest citizens, not tax cheats or money launderers. The burden of FBAR and FATCA compliance will be profiled during our March 2014 Congressional door knock, as it has been during Congressional door knock events over the past five years. The Task Force will also continue to engage with regulators (at the Treasury and IRS – including the Taxpayer Advocate) and legislators (especially on the Senate Finance Committee, House Ways & Means Committee and Americans Abroad Caucus) in the promotion of our recommended reforms.

We are very pleased to provide this update on our work. Please be reminded that we do not provide advice on US tax issues and obligations. Many Americans living abroad may find it necessary to seek professional tax advice.(7)

Endnotes

1. Where Americans or US Citizens are noted herein the terms also include Legal Permanent Residents/green card holders.

2. This is how Wikipedia defines FATCA. “The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a portion of the 2010 Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment (HIRE) Act. The FATCA requires individuals to report their financial accounts held outside of the United States, and requires foreign financial institutions to report to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) about their American clients. FATCA was designed primarily to combat offshore tax evasion and to recoup federal tax revenues.”

3. Here is a link to the official IRS publication on FATCA. http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-(FATCA). More details and copious references can be found in the Wikipedia article on FATCA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act#cite_ref-17

4. We note that while Section 1010.350 (a) of the Code of Federal Regulations prescribes a reporting requirement to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue, and Section 5314 of the Code of Federal Regulations designates the prescribed form as the Report of Foreign bank and Financial Accounts (TD-F 90-22.1), the dollar amount that falls under said reporting requirement is nowhere designated.

5. See Bloomberg reporting this on 6 January 2014. “Newly confirmed Internal Revenue Service Commissioner John Koskinen said some of the top priorities for his office include improving compliance, ensuring the IRS has enough money as part of the budget process, building employee morale and working to restore the public's trust in the wake of controversy.

Speaking to reporters during a 45-minute meeting Jan. 6, Koskinen said implementing both the Affordable Care Act and the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act are key goals, with FATCA expected to provide a significant amount of information to help the IRS fight offshore tax evasion.

It symbolizes ‘the increasing capacity of the IRS and the U.S. to be able to track down offshore accounts and those who have been avoiding income taxes,’ Koskinen said. FATCA is expected to be a big step forward in tax compliance, he said.”

6. Republicans Abroad has been conspicuous by their absence in lobbying for reforms to FATCA. Political operatives at the RNC have woken up to the issue and have formed a new entity called Republicans Overseas to make political capital out of a FATCA repeal effort. They hope the movement will stir sentiment and drive overseas votes to Republican candidates and raise money. Their plan is at best quixotic and at worst a blatant political ploy – in either case it is likely to fail given the commitment that regulators have demonstrated to implementing the law and the recognition in the US and globally that tax dodging must be stopped.

7. Many US Consulates and Embassies include a listing in the American Citizen Services section of their website of local accountants who provide US tax advice.


16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
FBAR/FACTA Tax Update for Democrats Abroad (Original Post) davidpdx Jan 2014 OP
Hope this is paid attention to RAFREE Jan 2014 #1
I'm curious about the problem with your mortgage davidpdx Jan 2014 #2
There are a few issues RAFREE Jan 2014 #3
Moving to a smaller bank is good davidpdx Jan 2014 #4
We are older RAFREE Jan 2014 #5
I agree as well about taking our names off real-estate davidpdx Jan 2014 #6
Thank you! RAFREE Jan 2014 #7
I'm working on my doctorate now davidpdx Jan 2014 #8
You've all got it wrong LondonExPat Jan 2014 #9
CBT RAFREE Jan 2014 #10
I moved out the country in 2013 and I'm not at all up to speed on any of this. cbayer Jan 2014 #11
Here is the DA Task Force Page davidpdx Jan 2014 #13
Thanks. I will set aside some time to come up to speed on this. cbayer Jan 2014 #14
For Anyone In Canada RAFREE Jan 2014 #15
Cbayer RAFREE Jan 2014 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author nenagh Jan 2014 #12

RAFREE

(34 posts)
1. Hope this is paid attention to
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:19 AM
Jan 2014

This does need some amending so I'm happy to see this initiative. It's very negatively affected my low income family here in Canada already. I have a Canadian spouse whose hit the roof as he makes all of our income. We've had a credit union not want to renew or take our mortgage. I understand the need to catch those off shoring, especially those with holdings in the U.S. or who live in the U.S. but, as Nina Olsen pointed out FATCA is too broad. The fall out around here has been horrible. It's not taxes that are causing the issue as most Americans abroad would never owe any.

It's banking issues, expense for low to middle income expat families, foreign spouses and children. There have been several proposals now to congress as to amendments that could help with this situation. It's rather a mess.

There will be an information session held in my city Kingston, Ontario at the central branch of the library on Feb. 01 from 1 to 3. If you are a border baby, married to an American, the child of an American or an Accidental American this is going to be of great interest to you. There are other information sessions set for Toronto, Vancouver, as well.

I do take exception to point 7 in the end notes. Our consulate had zero listings of anyone affordable for the average family. If you have thousands per yr to show you won't owe anything, good for you! That isn't the case for the vast majority though. STAY AWAY from H and R Block! At least here in Canada they do NOT know what they are doing with regard to U.S. taxes. I have someone good but, it was a needle in a haystack to find someone who doesn't cost an arm and a leg and who does international forms. Most preparers here do not do international taxes and especially not U.S. ones as they are by far more complicated. As it was the person I did find isn't even in my city so I take the train...as folks get older this quest might be a lot more challenging.

Hope FATCA seems major reforms so it can do as was the stated intent while not taking a sledgehammer to those not meant to be a target.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
2. I'm curious about the problem with your mortgage
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 09:59 PM
Jan 2014

My wife and I bought our apartment in Korea in 2011 and it is valued at under $200k (with the rise in real estate prices though it could be worth more in a matter of years). I thought I read somewhere that a primary residence did not count toward the amount that had to be reported. Maybe I misunderstood the law.

RAFREE

(34 posts)
3. There are a few issues
Wed Jan 22, 2014, 11:04 AM
Jan 2014

The problems with mortgages abroad are different depending on your situation. In our case, my spouse is not American but, has made ALL of our mortgage payments. Should we ever sell *and we need to soon due to not really being able to afford this property anymore* then my half is reportable and gains are taxable to the U.S. So in effect what would happen is a Canadian person ends up taxed by the U.S. on gains not earned by an American.

Secondly, we really wanted to move from our huge big bank to a locally invested credit union. There where a lot of good reasons for wanting to move over. I really love that this credit union takes profits made and puts them all back into our community for one thing. Well, because there was one American in the household they really did not want us to move our checking, savings or mortgage there. They are very small and if they dont' take any Americans then they aren't going to be subjected to the requirements and huge costs of FATCA. My spouse and son being Canadian CAN have accounts there. Now in Canada they cannot really come out and say blatantly that they don't take families with a so called "U.S.person" in them but, it was made pretty clear to me what happened and I did discuss it with them. I asked "Last year you were soliciting us and wanting us to move or business here. Now you are saying you can't give favourable terms upon learning we have one U.S. person in the family, within less than five minutes you've changed your tune." I was let know in a round about way...that was the reason. A LOT of people all over the world are being told they are not going to have their mortgage renewed because nobody wants to deal with American clients even if you've held your mortgage there for years and years. FATCA is causing all kinds of collateral damage not intended.

Some people are moving back, if they have a job and can afford to but, ironically it's low and middle income expats who are most stuck, especially if they are long term expats. Short termers don't have as many issues as those already in the fifties who have been moved abroad for many years.

FATCA is so complicated for individual circumstances it really must be reworked. Frankly, I think the best way to deal with UBS sorts of issues *weren't most of those people living IN the U.S.?" is for the U.S. to go to the international norm of residency based taxation then concentrate all their resources on those living in the U.S. who are indeed "off shoring" In that way they could get the REAL tax cheats while not really harming legitimate expat families with no U.S. holdings whatsoever.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
4. Moving to a smaller bank is good
Wed Jan 22, 2014, 08:32 PM
Jan 2014

My bank back home is a credit union. Here we don't really have those types of banks. One bank is an agricultural cooperative and I have had an account through them, but finding branches is a problem.

When you say gain, you mean the amount the property has increased in value right since you bought it?

My spouse is also not an American. I'm wondering if having the property registered in their name will alleviate the problem. Granted you'd have to make sure your spouse is trustworthy (the only problem I have with my spouse is that she will spend money hand over fist when she has it and not save).

I don't think we will be selling our place for another 3 years or so. Property values are going up in the area, but not by a lot. I'm hoping I won't have a big mess on my hands in terms of reporting when we sell.

RAFREE

(34 posts)
5. We are older
Wed Jan 22, 2014, 09:16 PM
Jan 2014

I have been a stay at home mom to a kid with disabilities. All I have my name on that is worth anything is this house. If I take my name off the house to keep my spouse from having to pay gains on U.S. taxes as someone who is NOT American then I will be a pauper. What if my spouse *heaven forbid* dies and then my name is not on our property?

We looked at every angle we could. Situations like mine are the reason Dems Abroad have come out with these revisions. I do disagree with their approach on one point. I think going to RBT is the answer to solve the problems with FATCA. It would allow the U.S. to go after actual "tax cheats" living there who are "off shoring" while not putting every single expat family in the same boat with criminals and making it nearly impossible for them to bank where they live, or save with a foreign spouse abroad. Even our kids educations savings fund here in Canada *tax free encouraged by the government to save in* is subjected to U.S. tax on gains! That is money I did not put in there! My spouse did.

Long term expat families with no financial ties to the United States and who pay taxes where they reside should not be subjected to citizenship based taxation by the U.S. and their entire family American or not. It's causing so much damage!

The Green Party, the NDP and the Liberal parties in Canada have all spoken out against this law.

If the dems are smart they will severely amend this as Dems Abroad and American Citizens Abroad have made proposals to do thus stealing this issue back from the republicans. Otherwise this thing is a foot bullet. RBT would solve all the issues surrounding FATCA and after all RBT IS the international norm.And it would make FATCA "work" the way it was supposed to.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
6. I agree as well about taking our names off real-estate
Wed Jan 22, 2014, 11:16 PM
Jan 2014

That would cause all kind of problems. Plus I earned the income that went into the house, so naturally I would want to have my name on it.

Hopefully they will work this out soon. I'm not at the threshold yet, but it sounds like I very likely could be soon.

BTW, if you want to respond to a post it is easier to hit post reply down on the bottom of the post here. It makes the conversation easier to follow

RAFREE

(34 posts)
7. Thank you!
Thu Jan 23, 2014, 05:45 AM
Jan 2014

First of all thank you for the tips on responding to posts..all I was hitting was the big blue button!

I do hope they work it out soon too. I know people in my position who have just given up and renounced over it though they really didn't want to they didn't see any other way. One guy was told the bank wasn't going to renew his mortgage where he'd held it and lived for decades. He is like us because he was older and you really can't just up and move back with no job and a foreign spouse in your fifties.

This has to be fixed. I am very fearful now that republicans have picked this up as an issue that if dems don't respond to the calls from liberals all over the world to amend this is going to turn ugly and those most hurt by it will be lost in all the shouting.

The U.S. needs to have a serious debate. ACA has proposed something like the following.

Go to RBT for long term expats *say longer out than five to ten years* who can show they have NO U.S. income or holdings. This would be an opt in to RBT measure. IF you opt in to RBT as a long term expat then you would also have to accept a 30 percent with holding on any future U.S. holdings such as future inheritance from a U.S. parent.

Yes, that with holding is high and harsh but, it IS a start.

The above proposal would allow the U.S. to still go after those leaving to take money out of the country
Still allow them to target people living and gaining in the U.S. who are actually off shoring to hide money
AND not harm long term expat families who do not have any financial gain from the U.S.

This proposal was made to House Ways and Means Committee some time ago. I think it's better than the current way Dems Abroad are approaching this. And it would cut off any opposition at the knees.

Win/win...*laughs* I wish it were that easy...if it makes too much sense congress never moves.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
8. I'm working on my doctorate now
Thu Jan 23, 2014, 07:31 AM
Jan 2014

So my income has been extremely low the last 2 1/2 years. I start a new job in March that has a good salary, but is still way under the allotted cap for the year (I think it's $97,500).

It's very possible once I get my doctorate I could be earning a lot more, which means I can build up money and buy a second place. If I'm going to be penalized for it, I sure as hell don't want to do it (the government here hits you harder on 2nd properties for taxes too). I may be able to find ways around it by giving it to my wife. We can't have joint accounts here anyway. If she stole it she knows what would happen. (I'd poke her in the ribs until she screamed, then I'd do it some more)

I've got a couple more years before I have to worry about it, but I hope they get it sorted out before then. I'm not a spring chicken and have to start building up money for retirement. They don't generally let people teach after 60. Thankfully I'll still be able to do it online.

LondonExPat

(1 post)
9. You've all got it wrong
Thu Jan 23, 2014, 06:03 PM
Jan 2014

I read Democrats Abroad on FATCA and then the responses. There seemed be a disconnect between the authors of the report and all the responders. There was some discussion of the value of property. There the suggestion that DA missed the boat by not recommending RBT (Not a rabbit but residence based taxing.

ExPats have been arguing since the Revolution for RBT and it's a nifty idea that won;t change in anyone's lifetime. So, while it's fun to kvetch about land prices and tilt at long-standing windmills. no one is actually doing anything:except

Rather, I would look at the one sensible thing in the DA proposals that could solve all our FATCA problems.Simply redefine an offshore account to be an account that is outside both the US and your country of residence.

With this redefinition the land you buy or the bank account you open in the country in which you've lived for the past 20 years would not fall into FATCA's clutches.

Now there's a bandwagon to jump on

RAFREE

(34 posts)
10. CBT
Fri Jan 24, 2014, 07:08 AM
Jan 2014

Citizenship based taxation came about because of war, the Civil War to be exact and was meant as a punishment for those leaving the U.S. and not supporting the war. I think it's time and purpose has come and gone.

It's long past time that the U.S. does go to RBT at least for long term expats. I think it's rather backward to continue with CBT when no other nations besides the U.S. and Eritrea do such as this. Should those citizens not living in the U.S. continue being punished for not doing so? Because that's what it is. 82 percent of all expats never end up owing the U.S. taxes on earned income abroad. The vast majority are not rich enough for that. It does however mean you spend a lot of money showing you don't owe and for some low income families that's a burden that they can no longer bear.

I think it's high time there was an open and serious discussion as to why the U.S. thinks continuing CBT makes any sense at all given the fact it is not an international norm, does not raise enough revenue to off set the cost to implement it, and hampers efforts to catch real tax cheats living in the U.S.

The reason Dems Abroad did not fully implement the proposals from ACA to House Ways and Means was that they knew they could not offend the crafters of FATCA. That left the door wide open for the Republicans to take this issue away and try to get votes and funds off the issue. Should the Democrats adopt the proposal of semi RBT for long term expats only that would certainly shut down all or most opposition to FATCA.

I don't like to see this issue become a battle for election fodder. It's far more serious than that. I also hate false arguments "Opposition to Fatca = tax evasion cheer leader" That's not the reason for opposing it as it stands at all for most expats anyway.

The U.S. would be FAR more efficient in addressing tax havens within it's own borders such as Delaware which has more shell companies than the Cayman Islands in ONE building by going to RBT. It could also silence ALL opposition to FATCA and take this issue away from the Republicans.

As was proposed by ACA...go to RBT as an opt in for long term expat families outside the country longer than five years with NO U.S. earnings or holdings. Should you elect to opt into RBT and meet the requirements you would then have to agree to be taxed as a foreign citizen on any future U.S. inheritance or holdings or earnings. So should your U.S. parent die you will have to pay 30 percent, the same as a foreigner. This would generate more taxes than the way things are currently done, take away the vast majority of the issues with FATCA and not allow Republicans to co opt this issue. No it's not full RBT but, it avoids long term expats and their families being subjected to all the pit falls of CBT causing so many hardships and objections to FATCA.

Instead Democrats Abroad were rather restricted in what they could propose...that's too bad since there are reasonable workable solutions that still go after tax cheats while not harming long term expats and our foreign families.

This is going to get ugly here in Canada. Progs here are fighting it on quite a few fronts...the NDP, The Liberal Party, the Green Party and the Canadian Civil Liberties Association all raising opposition to Canada implementing this.

That's why I think there ought to be an open and serious discussion by the Democrats on RBT vs. CBT. It is NOT unreasonable for Democrats to consider the proposition made by ACA to House Ways and Means committee.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
11. I moved out the country in 2013 and I'm not at all up to speed on any of this.
Sat Jan 25, 2014, 01:59 PM
Jan 2014

Can anyone recommend a primer?

RAFREE

(34 posts)
15. For Anyone In Canada
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 06:17 AM
Jan 2014

I suggest you start looking up on your local Kijiji. Some of you just missed a meeting in Toronto. Kingston is next followed by other cities. Information sessions are being held discussing many of the problems surrounding these issues for expat families.

It's extremely complicated if your spouse or children are not American and you have no U.S. holdings but, have saved locally with a foreign spouse. As Nina Olsen pointed out some people might not be able to keep their citizenship. It's kind of a rock meets hard place for some low to middle income families where the American in the household does not make the income.

Really as DA points out this needs some serious amending before it can be workable and fair.

ACA (American Citizens Abroad) has good data and has submitted a fantastic proposal similar to DA's to House Ways and Means.

If you are not involved in ACA I suggest if you are long term expat that you DO get involved with them AND with the FATCA/FBAR task force for Democrats Abroad.

Frankly I don't think CBT works for long term expats in any sort of reasonable way. Both proposals have a work around to CBT for long term expat families. Now will congress do something about the "unintended consequences" of this law?

I agree there has to be a way to catch those living in the U.S. and sending their money off shore to hide it but, this is not that way without some amendments. When it was passed it was hidden in another act. "HIRE" and hardly anyone who signed off on it read it. Hardly anyone now realizes the fall out.

DA has worked on this for a long time and I think it's time for them to get a reasonable and workable response.

I do want to add please be careful of the "compliance condors" There are a lot of people who stand to make a lot of money from the situations caused by FATCA...not all of them are good at what they do and some of them are raising rates to take full advantage of expats and our families. Choose wisely. Talk to others in your area and only use those they recommend.

RAFREE

(34 posts)
16. Cbayer
Sun Jan 26, 2014, 06:48 AM
Jan 2014

As of now you are still a short term expat and this will not really harm you in any way.

Get up to speed on how you will be affected and go from there.

The real harm is older expat families who have long term not lived in the U.S and who have foreign families. Most of us are in Canada and Europe where nobody runs to escape high taxes. Matter of fact I do not mind one bit how high my taxes are here in Canada. I get fantastic quality of life, health care, great schools etc. Had it not been for Canada and this health care system my son would not be alive as we'd never have been able to afford his care in the U.S. Five specialists, several long hospital stays at CHEO in Ottawa and on going life long follow up care with complications for 22 years now.

However, FATCA for families like mine is just unworkable. If you are a long term low income or middle income family. It can look like this.

Cost to do international taxes each year plus FBARS between 1200 to 3000. You'll end up owing nothing ..82 percent of you.
Able to save with a foreign spouse for retirement? No. Many complications and foreign spouse can end up being taxed by the U.S. on gains not earned there or even earned by an American.
Able to hold a mortgage with a foreign spouse where you live? Maybe/maybe not. Lots of so called "foreign" banks do not want any accounts with U.S. persons on them anymore. Here it is illegal for them to discriminate on the basis of nationality origin..but, they can get around it. In fact FATCA is illegal here based on the above but, looks like weasel words will be used in any IGA to get around Canadian laws and protect the banks from law suits.
Able to save for children's education abroad? No..only put your foreign spouses name on these accounts. While they are tax free savings in most countries they are NOT in the U.S.
Able to save in a disability fund for disable kid? NO. Do not put your name...see above.

If you already had your name on said accounts not knowing abt. FBAR *most people never heard of this paper nor where they told about it long ago, not up until recently* then you need professional advice badly. It's not taxes and you won't owe tax on it in most cases but the FBAR penalties are as Ms. Olsen said "draconian" and yes could wipe you clean out.

If you know someone elderly who has no idea about what is coming regarding their local bank and perhaps being a U.S. person/Accidental American *there are LOTS of accidentals in Canada* then please try and help them. To most of these people calling their account down the street "off shore" is a totally new concept.

Do what you can for those who are low income or elderly and are just now finding out about FATCA. Maybe you can't do much but, I know of more than one person in such circumstances. One lady in her 80's who married and moved to Canada decades ago. Her husband was a farmer but, she's a widow now. She never heard of FBAR *no one back then did!* She's terrified. Not rich, not an off shore tax evader.

I am very active on this issue in my town and city and have been interviewed by CBC and several other Canadian media outlets so people call me.

Tell people to read as much as they can and to do nothing for now until some of these amendments perhaps have a hearing in congress. Congress knows there are problems. House Ways and Means has had hundreds of submissions out lining these situations and DA has made their proposal along with ACA. There DOES need to be a response to these proposals urgently.

Response to davidpdx (Original post)

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