Revealed: How torture was used to foil al-Qaeda 2010 plot to bomb two airliners 17 minutes before

[CJCRANE]

Source: Independent UK

Revealed: How torture was used to foil al-Qaeda 2010 plot to bomb two airliners 17 minutes before explosion
Exclusive: Information from terror suspects about 2010 plot was used in a 'Jack Bauer real-time operation'

The former head of MI6 has said torturing suspected terrorists produces “useful information”, as The Independent on Sunday reveals that “real-time” intelligence understood to have been obtained by torture in Saudi Arabia helped to thwart a terrorist bombing on British soil.

In his first interview since stepping down from Secret Intelligence Service in January, Sir John Sawers told the BBC yesterday that torture “does produce intelligence” and security services “set aside the use of torture… because it is against the values” of British society, not because it doesn’t work in the short term. Sir John defended the security services against accusations they had played a role in the radicalising of British Muslims, including Mohammed Emwazi, who it is claimed is the extremist responsible for the murder of hostages in Syria.

The IoS can reveal details of a dramatic “Jack Bauer real-time operation” to foil an al-Qaeda plot to bring down two airliners in 2010. According to a well-place intelligence source, the discovery of a printer cartridge bomb on a UPS cargo aircraft at East Midlands airport was possible only because two British government officials in Saudi Arabia were in “immediate communication” with a team reportedly using torture to interrogate an al-Qaeda operative as part of “ticking bomb scenario” operation.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-how-torture-was-used-to-foil-alqaeda-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners-17-minutes-before-explosion-10077722.html

[Helen Borg]

1. Yeah, I saw that episode. What season of 24 was that?

[BadGimp]

33. I saw it too

[Art_from_Ark]

40. I think that was just about every episode

[Helen Borg]

43. Never got into 24, really...

Love "Homeland" though, much more psychological and subtle.

[midnight]

2. Reading this made me wonder who owns this newspaper?

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Lebedev

Alexander Lebedev, a Russian billionaire owns the Independent.

[jakeXT]

11. He became a British citizen

Lebedev is no longer technically Russian, having became a British citizen four years ago, so I ask if he would have any ambivalence about loyalties were this country to find itself in military conflict with Russia.

He pours a glass of water, lets out a little smile, and eventually says: "Well, let's hope it never comes to that

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/14/evgeny-lebedev-russia-not-homophobic-country

[PaulaFarrell]

9. A Russian oligarch n/t

[midnight]

18. I looked up an article to verify and this one makes Putin sound like Paul Ryan.

I read that Putin put an Oligarch in Prison. But then read this article and he likes what Sen. Paul Ryan likes vouchers and privatizing things too.

"The Khodorkovsky affair has been a shock for those who had come to believe in the "new Russia." During the previous dozen years, Russians had rejected the Communist Party and the Soviet Union's command economy. To the applause of most of the outside world, Russian and foreign economic advisers drew up an elaborate program for the privatization of industry, housing, and land. In an attempt at "people's capitalism," virtually every Russian was issued a voucher good for shares in a soon-to-be-private enterprise. Stock markets sprouted almost everywhere, while industrial ministries gave way to privately owned, Russia-based multinational corporations.

The largest of these corporations were producers of petroleum, natural gas, or metal that had previously been controlled by a Soviet industrial ministry. Their new executives became dazzlingly wealthy almost overnight. In May 2004, the Russian edition of Forbes identified 36 of these oligarchs as being worth at least $1 billion. Khodorkovsky topped the list with an estimated net worth of $15 billion."

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/60263/marshall-i-goldman/putin-and-the-oligarchs

[bemildred]

3. Bullshit. nt

[cstanleytech]

6. Oh it wouldnt surprise me if its true but even though it might have helped stop

an attack it is still wrong and the people involved with it at the time including those who ordered or consented to it at the time should be prosecuted and sent to jail for the maximum time possible.

[bemildred]

7. No, it's bullshit.

a.) It is much too convenient.
b.) They would have told us over and over about this by now, except that they just invented it.
c.) Or perhaps stole it from the TV show, these are not the most imaginative people.

[cstanleytech]

12. "They would have told us over and over about this by now"

Not necessarily, while its true they could have used it to its also true they might have wanted to hide it because remember this is the UK not the US and there was already alot of negative publicity over the US at the time over its use of waterboarding and I doubt the UK government wanted that kind of press.
The other this is we don't know what methods of torture they used to extract that information in this case so it could have been something else even more creative than waterboarding (which is still torture imo) which could have caused an even worse PR disaster for the UK and the other reason they might not have revealed it until now is if they believed revealing it might have compromised security in some way.
But I do agree what they did was bullshit and it was wrong and the people involved including Sawers if he knew at the time should all be punished.

[bemildred]

16. I take it back, you're right.

That's a real back story there. This should get interesting.

[CJCRANE]

20. We have no way of knowing

if the specifics of this story are true.

My hunch is that it's just a temporary distraction and will disappear down the memory hole, just like the Sunday Times story on Bin Laden's underground supervillain fortres and the Guardian story about the discovery of Isis' entire employee payroll and financial accounts.

[bemildred]

22. I am reminded of this:

Nafeez Ahmed: The circus: How British intelligence primed both sides of the ‘terror war’

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016115713

It betrays the same mentality, thought crime and the need to control it, and the argument for torture based on expediency.

But that is a serious back story there, I'm impressed, it could even be true, and the poor spooks have been forced to reveal it by the mean things we say about them.

[Ford_Prefect]

4. Same old Horse Sh#t fed to us through a new source.

Only reason this is "in the open" is to respond to ongoing public pressure over use of torture and demands for accountability.

A smugly told dark fantasy implying that an ugly family secret has some kind of moral excuse. Shame. Shame. Shame.

[hedgehog]

5. The Brits are really into that torture and spy stuff-

ask any Catholic who went through the Troubles. Sometimes, the person they are torturing really is a terrorist.

[bemildred]

10. The British colonialists were always very violent and greedy.

It started with Ireland and Scotland, but it didn't end there by any means, and they felt even more at liberty overseas, not unlike our own government.

[Octafish]

13. Plutocrats for PNAC

In the crosshairs, the Ukraine.

Next up for Balkanization, the Russias.

The City of London will be golden.

[madokie]

21. Yup, gotta look at the big picture

how can it be so many can know so little. Because they can't see the forest for the trees is why.


The long knives of the BFEE are coming out for john ellis

[Octafish]

25. Dr. Bongwater won't know what hit him.

With VP Quayle Walker waiting in the wings, it's smooth sailing for eight more years of money trumps peace.

[cynzke]

14. Yeah.......

An unnamed source from MI6 told a taxi driver who told the store clerk at the gas station, who told the guy who supplies the gas to the gas station, who told his mum, a hairdresser by profession, who told her customer who is a reporter for the newspaper. Some how this managed to stay secret all this time. Even people from the airlines involved kept a big story like this secret. Sounds fishy>

[still_one]

15. bullshit. Why don't I believe a word this guy is saying

[sakabatou]

17. Right...

[HelenWheels]

19. Hard to believe nt

[Xipe Totec]

23. In other news, cheating improves your chances of wining

until you get caught.

[father founding]

24. brand new saying.

If it's hard to believe it is usually not true.

[PSPS]

26. "Revealed?" Hardly. It should say "Claimed."

Notice their use of the phrase, "According to a well-place intelligence source." Isn't that the exact phrase used by Judith Miller?

[blackspade]

27. What a bunch of bullshit.

[Jerry442]

28. Don't get too atttached to the meme that torture never works.

Repeat something, however vile and destructive, enough times in enough different circumstance and there will likely be a good outcome for someone sooner or later. The reason we shouldn't embrace torture is that ultimately it creates an unlivable society, full of torturers, torture victims, people terrified of being tortured, and more terrorists than there were to begin with.

If something working once proves it's OK, then if I hear a story that someone solved his cash flow problems by blowing away a clerk at a liquor store and looting the till, then I guess that would mean we should all do it.

[rickford66]

29. Possible, but not probable.

Get wind of an impending terrorist act somewhere, sometime soon. Have a suspected terrorist in custody. He may just know about the act to be committed. Hmmm. Let's torture him. He tells all the details just in time. What's the chances in real life compared to a movie? Like the detective shows where a hot tip comes in just when it's needed. Right.

[pansypoo53219]

30. how funny that the brits during WW2 used bugs and HONEY to get high up nazi's to squeal.

NOT TORTURE. last night on PBS, let the krauts talk amongst themselves when confined + super bugs. got far more helpful info.

[Iggo]

31. Bullshit.

[GoneFishin]

32. Bullshit. Transparent public relations bullshit for consumption by the gullible,

and other Fox Noise viewers.

[louis-t]

34. So, the same technics that radicalized Muslims were useful in stopping them from

carrying out bombings? That's like saying "I shot myself in the foot to keep myself from running in front of that speeding truck."

[nomorenomore08]

35. Define "torture," then define "useful information." Either way this sounds like a rare exception.

Most of the time, intelligence obtained via torture isn't especially useful, because the victim will tell you whatever you want to hear.

[Helen Borg]

36. Sorry pal, Jack Bauer would disgree!

Stop spreading disinfo that helps the terrorists

[philosslayer]

37. Even if it IS useful, it doesn't matter

Torture is barbaric and should be totally off-limits. Always.

[nomorenomore08]

38. I can agree with that, in general. And I'm skeptical of the OP to say the least. n/t

[Matariki]

39. So. What. It's STILL torture. And torture is STILL morally reprehensible.

Wrong argument. Assholes.

[truthisfreedom]

41. Did someone lay off ALL of the online copy editors?

"According to a well-place intelligence source..."

Well-place?

[daleo]

42. If this guy's story is true

We could verify it by torturing him.