Voting begins in France, economy may sink Sarkozy

[TomClash]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - French voters headed to the polls on Sunday in round one of a presidential ballot, with economic despair on course to make Nicolas Sarkozy the first president to lose a fight for re-election in more than 30 years.

In a contest driven as much by a dislike of Sarkozy's showy style and his failure to bring down unemployment as by policy differences, Sarkozy and his Socialist rival Francois Hollande are pegged to beat eight other candidates to go through to a May 6 runoff, where polls give Hollande a double-digit lead.

Hollande, 57, promises less drastic spending cuts than Sarkozy and wants higher taxes on the wealthy to fund state-aided job creation, in particular a 75 percent upper tax rate on income above 1 million euros ($1.32 million).

He would be only France's second left-wing leader since the founding of the Fifth Republic in 1958, and its first since Francois Mitterrand, who beat incumbent Valery Giscard-d'Estaing in 1981.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/22/us-france-election-idUSBRE83I0EZ20120422

[pampango]

1. Whatever sinks Sarkozy is fine with me. Whether is is the economy or the crazy right-wing ideas

that he has been peddling to attract the far-right vote in this first round of the election.

It will be interesting to see how much he tracks to the center in the second round when he thinks the far-right voters have no alternative but to vote for him.

[lovuian]

13. I'm ready to see Sarkosky go and Merkel

and it will happen

[davidwparker]

23. +1

D'accord.

How he got into office in the first place amazes me. One spends in a downturn, not cut. Get that straight, people.

[cstanleytech]

2. I am not sure a flat 75% tax rate will work, the idea after all is to get the rich to invest not

to punish them for being wealthy isnt it?
Now I could go for it if say it had some clauses where the higher the the unemployment and poverty rate are the higher the taxes that might work out, after all it gives the rich an incentive to truly be job creators if they want those lower taxes on their income.

[TBF]

4. Spoken like a true capitalist - but France has a tradition

of throwing those out and I think it will happen this time. The question is whether they can get a truly socialist candidate that fights for the people (as opposed to the recent so-called socialist leader in Greece etc...)

[newrocker]

7. That's not a flat tax - that's the upper bracket tax.

But I think taking more than half of prospective, i.e., marginal income, is a loser idea.

[JDPriestly]

12. Actually, when tax rates are low and the rich are flush and increasing their earnings at a

much faster pace than the rest of the population, then no, it is not a good idea to give the rich more money and let them decide whether to invest it in jobs in the national economy or save it or spend it on jobs overseas.

When tax rates are historically low, the rich are flush with money, their earnings are increasing at a much faster pace than their investments in the economy of the country in which they are citizens, the best policy is to raise the taxes on the rich and let the government invest it in creating jobs.

If tax rates are raised, but business expenses are recognized as deductions from taxes, then those who actually create jobs will pay lower taxes because they can deduct the cost of creating jobs.

If tax rates are not raised, you will continue to have high unemployment and low investment in job creation.

Why in the world should rich people create jobs in times like the present -- a time of economic fear and uncertainty? They want to safeguard their money -- hoard is another word for it. And, of course, that is what they are doing.

The only ways you can get job creation are 1) give strong incentives through higher taxes (the stick) and generous deductions for job creation (the carrot) to rich people to create jobs or 2) let the government raise the taxes on the rich and use the increased tax revenue to create jobs.

The rich will not create jobs if they make and keep good money not creating jobs. And that is the situation right now.

[cstanleytech]

15. But this is a carrot and stick approach.

The idea is to have the tax rate be linked hand in hand with the the unemployment and poverty rate so if those two are running high then the wealthy pay higher and higher taxes, if those two are running low then they pay lower.
Its a true carrot and stick approach because if they try to game the system by doing low paying jobs that keep people at or below the poverty level (like in texas) then their taxes stay high, if however they create jobs that pay well and the unemployment and poverty level are low then they get lower taxes.
As it is now though they get the lower taxes with no real incentive to invest.

[JDPriestly]

29. Yes. I like this statement of the proposal.

Money should be working for the general good of society.

[harmonicon]

14. Those are some nice right-wing talking points, but luckily have zero basis in reality.

As I'm sure you know, generally, higher tax rates for the wealthy have gone hand-in-hand with economic prosperity. The accusation that taxes are a punishment is absolutely vile. Clearly once someone is making a certain amount of money, the system set up for them to do so by their government is responsible for that, and they are responsible for that. If taxes are punishment, how would things run with zero taxes? Get a grip. Taxing people is simply a way of seeing to the fact that a nation and its economy can operate in a manner that allows people to make money.

[harmonicon]

17. You're the one who described taxes as punishment. nt.

[harmonicon]

19. How is is punishment? nt.

[harmonicon]

21. Question: how are taxes punishment?

You have yet to answer this. You keep repeating this same right-wing talking point but have no way to back it up.

[harmonicon]

24. You've dodged the question again.

How are taxes punishment? That very premise is a right-wing claim. You further this by mentioning "higher earners" - higher when? Oh, before taxes. Taxes exist to keep society in place. If it were not for the infrastructure and government funded by taxes, those supposed pre-tax incomes would never exist. Rather than being punishment, it is the payment of those taxes which made any earned income possible.

[harmonicon]

28. Sorry, are you about to be elected in France?

Some dreamed-up tax law nuttery of yours does not interest me. When you get over 10% of the French vote, I'll consider your policy. It has nothing to do with the discussion and is only something you've used to derail the argument - it's the spice you've put in here as a vehicle for claiming that taxes are a punishment.

[polichick]

3. Stock market should be interesting this week. SOCIALISTS are taking over!!!

[TBF]

5. For those who may be interested, from the perspective of the workers -

French workers invite themselves into the presidential campaign
Marc Lasalle and Dave Stockton Wed, 18/04/2012 - 14:03

The steel workers of Florange, in the industrial region of Lorraine in eastern France, promised to be the nightmare of Nicolas Sarkozy and his government during the presidential elections. They have been as good as their word. In mid-March they invited themselves to the Sarkozy campaign HQ and were welcomed by police in riot gear with tear gas. Then they organised a « steel » march on Paris. As a result, their leader has become one of the most popular figures of this campaign.

The struggle of the Florange workers to prevent the closure of the ArcelorMittal plant has become emblematic of the economic crisis and its devastating effects on the working class. In 2007, Sarkozy had promised to keep the nearby Grandrange site in operation but this proved to be another of his empty promises. In March, he exited his HQ saying he was “too busy” to meet the steel workers.

Today, Florange is the symbol of French working class resisting the wave of factory closures and its consequences; unemployment and precarité – temporary, part time and low paid jobs replacing full time ones. Similar struggles are also taking place elsewhere: the workers in the factory producing tea bags in Fralib, near Marseille, are struggling against the giant corporation Unilever that plans to close the factory there despite the enormous profits they are making. In Aulnay, in the northern suburbs of Paris, thousands marched against a plan to close the Peugeot car factory, where workers are well organised and politically active too.

These struggles have had a clear impact on the campaign...

Much more here: http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/french-workers-invite-themselves-presidential-campaign

[Surya Gayatri]

6. Have just come back from doing my civic duty

as a "citoyenne française".
As a dual national (Franco-American), I'm entitled to vote in France.

The French will never allow voting machines to come between them and their hard-won democratic ballots.
Dieu nous en garde!

No, like all other French voters, after showing my national ID and signing the voter registry, I went into a curtained "isoloir" or voting both.

There, I simply slipped a single ballot paper, printed with my chosen candidate's name, into an unmarked envelope.

Then I took my envelope to the "urne" (ballot box) and was instructed to put it in myself, under the watchful eye of the sworn poll watchers, whereupon the head watcher formally announced "A voté!" (Has voted!).

That's all there was to it!
"Allons enfants de la patrie..."

[Mass]

8. My son and I voted yesterday (in MA).

Actually, there are a few places with voting machines (not here, but I read a few articles about it). It is, however, not the majority of them.

For once, I can say: Let's hope that the guy from Correze (where I grew up) win. After so many years hoping the other guy from Correze (Chirac) would lose.

[Surya Gayatri]

9. You're right...I read somewhere that a few

"circonscriptions" are experimenting with voting machines, but I've never seen any since I started voting in France.

There was an over-flow crowd at my polling place in a left-leaning "arrondissement" here in Paris, so it looks good for Hollande so far.

I hope Le Pen gets her ass handed to her on a platter.

Being born in the Corrèze, what are you called, a corrèzien? (or corrèzienne?)

Where did you vote, at the French Consulate in Boston? And, is the procedure the same as in "France metropole"?

[Mass]

10. Hi. I like that the participation is high.

It's Corrézien and Corrézienne (accent aigu).

The vote for people from MA is at the bilingual school in Cambridge. The one for people outside of MA but in NE (NH, ME, VT, CT) is at the Consulate in Boston. The procedure is exactly the same as in France, with the ballots all lined up on a table and the voting boot.

It was funny because it was the first time my son voted in a French election (he was only 14 last time) and he was very surprised by the fact you only voted for one thing and that it was so much simpler to know who you vote for (you take the ballot with the candidate name on it and put it in an envelop. No long list where you have to be sure you marked the right candidate.

[Surya Gayatri]

11. Yes, France has a very simple and transparent system,

which makes voting fast and easy. Bravo la France!

A real contrast with California, which is where I vote in the US by absentee ballot. CA may have one of the most complex ballots in the whole country.

You vote on about 96 things at the same time, from your city councillors, to the same-sex marriage proposition, to the President of the United States.

Not surprising that there are so many spoiled ballots. Too much to process on one ballot and it takes much too long in the voting booth.

[Mosaic]

26. Imagine doing all that voting on the internet

Then we could have the direct democracy so many dream about.

[cstanleytech]

27. Thats not going to happen for a long longggg time if ever.

It would be great mind you but one of the problems is security or lack there of as there are just so many computers that are already compromised online and I am willing to bet someone would try to manipulate the voting using those computers.