Indiana pizzeria that backed 'religious freedom' law reopens

[Smithryee]

Source: Indystar

WALKERTON, Ind. — A northern Indiana pizzeria that closed after its owner supported Indiana's religious objections law has reopened.

Memories Pizza owner Kevin O'Connor says he reopened about 4 p.m. Thursday. He says that within an hour, all eight tables were filled and six people were waiting for carryout orders. There were no protests as of 7 p.m.

O'Connor faced criticism after he and his daughter, Crystal, said they would never deny service to a gay customer but would decline to cater a same-sex wedding because it would conflict with their Christian beliefs. Protests led them to close the Walkerton pizzeria about 20 miles southwest of South Bend.

O'Connor says he'll use some of his share of more than $842,000 raised online to make improvements. He also plans to donate to charity.



Read more: http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/04/09/indiana-pizzeria-backed-religious-law-reopens/25549263/

---

Oh why didn't they remain closed and scram to Cayman Islands with their 850K?

*mutter*

Well, sales will be way way way way down unless it gets supported by bigots.

[caraher]

1. I hear eating their pizza is punishment enough

A friend says she knows locals who claim the pizza slices at the gas station are better.

[Smithryee]

3. I certainly hope that is true..

Even a frozen pizza has to be far better than the bitter bigot pie of Memories.

May they fade into a bad memory

[starroute]

2. Somebody posted earlier that it's in a very small, very conservative town

If that's so, they're unlikely to have any problems with their regular clientele.

[LittleGirl]

19. There is barely a stop light in that town

I lived about 30 minutes from there growing up. It's puny.

[trof]

52. Being "anti-gay" actually boosted sales at Chick Fil A.

At least in my red area.

[Fred Sanders]

4. "Memories of Bigotry Pizza" is the new name. Free small Jesus Juice with every Large Holy Roller Pizza.

[Psephos]

10. Now who sounds like a bigot?

You do. Think about it. Bigotry is judgment and put-down of people who do not share the same genetics, religion, age, politics, etc. Show me the difference.

And no, I do not agree with Memories Pizza's politics in the slightest.

I would not buy a Memory Pizza but I will tolerate their right to their religious beliefs as insurance that mine will be tolerated as well. The alternative is the hive mind.

[840high]

11. Thank you. Good post.

[Gore1FL]

13. Religion and politics are choices.

They aren't analogous to to age and genetics.

[Psephos]

15. Current science holds that politics and religion have a genetic component.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/12/genetics-twins-politics-religion

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/19/genetics-politics-beliefs-encoded-genes-video_n_4455391.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147-genes-contribute-to-religious-inclination.html

Please click through and read.

[heaven05]

21. BS

Bigotry is a choice and just because the reason for that bigotry(religion) is alleged to have a genetic basis, does not excuse their bigotry. Period.

[Adrahil]

23. I was raised in. Fairly conservative family that went to church every Sunday.

Now I'm a liberal Democrat atheist.

My story is repeated quite a lot amongst my friends.

I'm not saying my experience negates those studies, but the evidence I've seen seems to contradict them.

[brett_jv]

63. If there was weight to what you're saying ... it nixes a genetic argument for being gay as well ...

You're essentially asserting here that the only form of heredity that's 'valid' is the type that can be seen to be present in both parent and child.

And yet ... we have gay people. And we (most of us anyway) assert that people are 'born that way' ... which by nature means 'in your genes'.

Or are you asserting that every gay person born has one or both parents that are 'in the closet'?

Not trying to be an ass, but do you understand the point I'm making? Something doesn't (IMHO) have to always been in successive generations in order to be hereditary/part of one's genetic code.

Some of what one might call 'mutations' (not meant in a derogatory way) such as proclivity towards homosexuality (or liberalism or conservatism) may very well be both 'common' ... and yet virtually entirely random.

[Adrahil]

71. Well, I do think there is a difference.

I think political leaning and sexual preference are very different things. Also, the genetic argument would, I would think tend to suggest that white Europeans would tend to conservatism, but Europe is generally a lot more progressive on most issues.

Perhaps epic emetics is involved. But the genetic thread suggested here seems pretty thin to me. Still I can be convinced by more evidence, it it emerges.

[Gore1FL]

31. Genetics may make someone more religious. It may impact their fight or flight mechanism

No one is predisposed, however to be a republican christian, a libertarian Hindu, or a liberal muslim. Those are free choices.

[Darb]

14. Baloney.

Their religious beliefs have nothing to do with their bigotry. You are giving them a pass, could you tell me why? Because you might someday need the bigotry get out of jail free card too?

They are religious frauds who pick and choose which parts of that old book to adhere to and you should be aware of that fact.

Fucking phoney ass Christians piss me off.

[Psephos]

17. Check the actual definition of "bigot." Then read post #15.

The precise use of language is a marker of precise thought.


[from thefreedictionary.com]
big·ot (bĭg′ət)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

[from Oxford Dictionaries abridged]
Definition of bigot in English:
noun
A person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

[from Merriam-Webster]
Function: noun
a person who won't listen to anyone whose ideas or beliefs are different from his or her own; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial group) with hatred and intolerance.


A universal trait of bigots is that they do not consider themselves bigoted.

[heaven05]

20. extrapolate

this person's bigotry to any other group because of their "religious belief(s)" and tell me that they are not raving bigots hiding behind their holy book and how they interpret it. No better than the Taliban or Boko Harem in my book. These pizza owners are bigots, pure and simple. Is that precise enough for you?

[Fiendish]

46. Gonna have to disagree with you here.

You're using some pretty rampant hyperbole, don't you think? You really can't compare the owners of a pizzeria who don't want to cater a gay wedding to groups who stone women because they were raped, actively hunt down and murder homosexuals, and saw people's heads off.

I disagree with their stance and their politics, but let's be real here, yeah? There's no valid comparison here to the groups you named, and I find it frankly disturbing that you made that comparison.

Why, you ask? Because there's no reasoning with groups like the Taliban or Boko Haram. Either they kill you or you kill them. Period, full stop. You lumping fellow Americans into that same category is, to me, profoundly disturbing.

It raises a question, as well. If you could kill these people, with the intention of eradicating their beliefs, would you do so?

[heaven05]

50. why is it always

hyperbole? Christians burned witches at one time and backed slavery. To me that is the same as sawing off heads that the violent extremist are doing now with their interpretation of their holy book in regard to non-believers. I feel that with a little prodding, by fox news losers, the Cruz types, Scott types, Darren Wilson types, Michael Slager types, Bundy types and their fellow fox news travelers, a majority who would claim to be Christian, would stone, burn and lynch human beings again, with no compunction at all about doing so.

With the current climate of hate, rampant in RW america and american culture in general, against people not heterosexual, not white male and not Christian, IF the repubthugs and their tea party faction should gain executive power again and pass legislation to totally repeal the Civil Rights Act(s), Roe v Wade and all voting rights for POC, 90 percent of fox news losers would be in favor of them doing so and I'm being generous with the 90%. While it is admirable that you would disagree with these type of retrograde practices and you feel there is no valid comparison to the groups I named, boko and taliban, I feel after watching the political scene for the last six years or so, with Nov 4 2014 being the culmination of the current expression of retrograde mentality this culture is experiencing, that we are headed for some wicked and evil times that will be guided by racist fascist who would prefer a theocratic rule to the rule of law and the fox news sheeple would follow like lemmings to the sea.

There is no reasoning with the Cruz types who deny climate change-global warming, who deny americans the right to vote, who justify the execution of unarmed people in the streets, most of whom are people of color. It is profoundly disturbing to me to watch the bundy types and their hate toward others who are not white. They, if allowed, would be the american boko harem and the military arm of the american taliban, the republican and tea party factions.

You can hide behind outrage with your use of a word like hyperbole to explain away reality as experienced by millions of people, but it doesn't sway me at all. Logic is, that if hate is allowed to fester, as it has in this country for 150 years against POC mainly, but many others now, with periodic outbreaks of lynchings, murder of LGBT people, the denial of voting rights, the denial of women the right to make choices concerning their own bodies, then the future in the hands of the Christian-repubthugs/tea party does not look so rosy. It is extremely, profoundly disturbing to me, the hate, present in this culture NOW, as exhibited by so many and denied by so many others, that is growing among a very polarized populace. Not festering in the cultural american swamps and sewers where it had been concealed for 150 years or so, but now in the open and unconcealed. Hyperbole? No.

[Fiendish]

56. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then.

I suppose I have more faith in people being fundamentally good. I mean that in general, of course. I just find it dismaying when people label political opponents as "evil." I don't think there's any such thing as an absolutely good or absolutely evil person. Everyone is a shade of grey.

That said, you're right to point out the problem with mob or herd mentality. That sort of thing is why people who were, at bottom, decent human beings stood by and did nothing about the Holocaust, for instance. You had one herd actively jumping on the bandwagon, and the other herd passively watching it all happen and doing nothing to stop it.

But I just don't agree with your comparison of the modern-day right-wing in America to the Taliban or Boko Haram. A sizable chunk of my family leans right-wing, and I can't picture them ever stoning gays or sawing heads off. In any group of people, you'll find some loonies on the fringes, so yeah, some of the frothing-at-the-mouth types might do the things you're talking about. But your average garden-variety conservative? No, I don't think so.

So yeah, hyperbole. As I said in the beginning, we may just have to agree to disagree here.

[Judi Lynn]

64. Could not agree with your comments more. So well articulated. Thank you. n/t

[frylock]

35. ah, the ever-popular appeal to stop being intolerant of other's intolerance

[Psephos]

37. your words, not mine n/t

[frylock]

38. no, you did not type those exact words..

nope.

[Fiendish]

48. I don't read it that way, actually.

I read it more as "Check your thought process."

One thing left- and right-wingers are equally guilty of, in my opinion, is bigotry, hatred, and intolerance towards each other. When you listen to the rhetoric from some of the extreme folks on both sides, what you hear is that the other side is "the enemy." And of course, an enemy must be destroyed, and can rarely be reasoned with.

Similarly, I have heard/read progressives opine, in the same breath or sentence, that all conservatives are stupid, idiotic, evil, inbred, bigoted, etc. etc. etc., unlike us progressives. By the same token, I've heard/read conservatives opine that progressives are all childish, foolish, naive, emotion-driven, etc. etc. etc., unlike us conservatives.

Those are bigoted, prejudicial statements that paint an entire group of people with a very broad brush. You can't condemn bigotry in one group while making bigoted statements about that group. That's called hypocrisy, and it completely erodes the moral high ground so many people claim to occupy.

The other problem with this outlook is that it completely precludes any and all cooperation, compromise, or even something as simple as civil, reasonable discussion.

And that is why the USA is the way it is in 2015, in my opinion. We can't look at each other and see countrymen with whom we disagree. We look at those who differ from us politically as enemies to destroy.

[christx30]

55. The point is to not equate all Christians

with those that would deny services to gay people. It's like a thread about Islamic terrorism, and someone makes a crack about Muhammad, or paints all Muslims as terrorists. That person would be called out on it, and rightly so.

[christx30]

60. I'm right there with you.

There are good people and bad people in every religion (and nonreligion). I've seen religious people wildly and enthusiastically misinterpret their own holy book to justify saying and doing all sorts of terrible things. But that doesn't mean that all members of that religion are terrible. I wouldn't make any jokes about "Jeezus Juice" any more than I would laugh at that cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb for a turban.
The pizza place hasn't discriminated against anyone. They have not denied service to anyone. From what I've seen, they're just doing their pepperoni and mushroom thing. But an employee gives an answer to a reporter's question, and suddenly, the whole place is Satan, and the Internet attacks them and wants to see the place closed down and everyone lose their jobs.
That kind of activity isn't going to win any friends on the other side. It's going to make them harden their hearts against us.
Now, I do support gay marriage wholeheartedly. I think if people love each other, they should be allowed to get married. It's a no brainer to me. But I do understand that there are people out there that don't feel comfortable with it, and I'm ok with that too.

[Fiendish]

61. Yep.

If someone is opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds, that doesn't make them a bigot. What makes them a bigot is when they actively campaign against gay marriage, or actively discriminate against gay people.

If a Christian says, "I disagree with it, but it's your life so do what you want," they're not a bigot, in my book. The Christians who are trying to legislate their religion and their morality, on the other hand, are most certainly bigots.

We'd be a lot better off as a nation if people could comprehend that you can't legislate from religion unless it's something we all agree on, such as murder. We might not agree on when the killing of another human being is murder (see the Trayvon Martin case, for instance), but we can all agree that murder is not a good thing.

We'd also be a lot better off if we could have civilized, reasoned discussion of our ideological differences. Unfortunately, it seems that screaming at one another is the de facto method of communication when people differ on politics.

[Major Nikon]

66. That's not what happened

So it's kinda hard to see where the point comes in.

[Major Nikon]

67. Tolerance does not require one to tolerate intolerance

[Adrahil]

25. So, like pence said, "tolerance is a two-way street?"

Hogwash. They have a right to believe as they will, but if expression of that belief violates the rights of another, then those beliefs are open to scrutiny and curtailment.

Religious freedom is important. Religious zealotry is a danger. Besides, my guess is that majority of these "devout" Christians have only the vaguest idea of what is actually IN the Bible.

[Fred Sanders]

32. The difference is America is a secular state.

[shebolleth]

58. +1

[heaven05]

5. Oh, I'm very sure there are enough bigots

in that city to support this pizza joint and if this joint should say they didn't want to serve blacks, they would probably get a million more from bigots nationwide in their gofundme account....no doubt.

[blackspade]

6. Bigotry pays.

They were probably in trouble and decided to make a cynical play for cash.
grifters

[WhoWoodaKnew]

24. I don't think they're that smart. They said what they felt and idiots

started sending them cash.

[Atman]

26. They didn't start the fund drive.

Some Glenn Beck goon started it for the pr. Who knows if these people even got any if the money raised in their name?

[blackspade]

29. Per the article, they got it.

And I don't believe that they were unaware of the gofundme site.
I'm sure it came as a 'surprise' that they could reopen.

[Atman]

30. Grifters. Opportunists.

I'm surprised Sarah Palin hasn't shown up yet to endorse them.

[blackspade]

34. too true.

[yeoman6987]

51. They didn't start any of this

They were asked a question by a reporter doing a story. They didn't open their door and shout it so a reporter heard it. Quite different.

[christx30]

62. They are donating a lot of the money

to various causes to support disabled children, a woman's help group, firefighters, police trusts and a number of Christian churches. Also giving money to that florist in Washington State that was fined $1,000 for refusing to serve a gay wedding.

[rurallib]

7. I learned a lesson from this. Hate and bigotry pays big time in America

nearly a cool million from the admirers of hate.

[Sparhawk60]

72. And Yet......

And yet, my refusal to support gay Klingon marriages has netted me not one dime.

/it blows my mind this pizza place raked in close to a million dollars

[Cryptoad]

8. Just like GOP Thugs

always taking and wanting for unearned riches.....

[douggg]

9. A phony claim of fear and going into hiding

certainly got them more money.

[840high]

12. Beg to differ. They were threatened.

[Darb]

16. yeah, right.

Could have been themselves or any other christian "victim" out there posting those threats. Prove they got legitimately threatened and not just caught some grief on the internet.

[840high]

18. Woman threatened to burn

them down. Google is your friend.

[Atman]

27. So now they won't get burned down?

Huh? What changed? $800,000 will stop someone from torching their store? How does that work?

[Tom Ripley]

33. Great question

[jmowreader]

42. It'll give them enough to rebuild if someone's that stupid

I feel sorry for their employees. You know while the asshole owner was doing the martyr thing he was all "if thou do not work, thou will not eat."

Hence, because they didn't work they didn't get paid.

Assume "sir, we weren't working because you were closed" is a termination offense.

[840high]

43. You got a link that

they were not paid?

[jmowreader]

44. No, but I'd be surprised if they were

[Atman]

54. Seriously?

You think a tiny pizza shop, which was probably not even making money in the first place, was paying their employees NOT to work? Really?

[douggg]

40. Funny how their claims of fear and hiding

got them even more money.

Then the money cured their fears so they're soon back in business.

[AngryOldDem]

69. Yeah. Funny how that works. n/t

[davidpdx]

22. I hope the people eating there choke on their pizza

for supporting these fundy assholes.

[underpants]

28. Yes I'd like a large, 1/2 ignorance 1/2 hate

[samsingh]

36. repugs always have names for laws that are actually doing the exact opposite of

the implied purpose.

Religious freedom is anything but. People aren't free to practice their religion with this law.

[KamaAina]

39. I'll have a 12-inch with extra sausage, please

And serve it HOT!

[dembotoz]

41. it would be silly not to ride this thing out. probably a tour stop for buses now

make hay while the sun shines???

if they print the name of the pizza joint on the box hell they will have folks getting take out just so they can show the folks back at home how pious they are

[goldent]

45. Going there is now edgy

[Klong]

49. Places like this usually do 300k a year in revenue

so the 800k+ would likely keep them open for more than 3 years. I just don't get how many heartless people it takes to keep a place like this open.

[christx30]

53. Maybe people that are able to

keep their food choices and their politics seperate. My guilty pleasure is the occasional Chick fil a nuggets meal. I love the waffle fries. It's not about being hateful. I just want food, and it sounds good at the time.

[AngryOldDem]

59. THey saw a way to make a quick buck and took it.

That's the American way.

To me, the place looks like one of the dives where Don and Peggy would go for a quick bite after pulling an all-nighter on Mad Men.

I really don't think they would have been anyone's first choice to cater anything, but as I said...they saw an opportunity and jumped on it. But the owner brought all that shit on himself in the first place, by being so offensive with his comments.

[former9thward]

65. "They saw a way"

The reporter went into their place randomly. Did they have some sort of vision that was going to happen? The reporter asked them the questions. They just answered the questions.

[AngryOldDem]

68. And then claimed they were being threatened and had to close.

Just all too convenient, if you ask me.

A lot of people are just chomping at the bit to prove the point of just how "persecuted" Christians are here. I, for one, ain't buying it.

[former9thward]

70. So you are saying they planned to have a reporter come in.

And the threats were documented. Its not a question of Christians being persecuted. The internet has given people the ability to harass others they don't like. Yes, it happens by both sides whether you believe it or not. And it will continue.