Washington officer shoots men accused of earlier beer theft
Source: Associated Press
Washington officer shoots men accused of earlier beer theft
By RACHEL LA CORTE, Associated Press | May 21, 2015 | Updated: May 21, 2015 5:58pm
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) Two stepbrothers suspected of trying to steal beer from a grocery store were not armed with guns when they were shot Thursday by a police officer who confronted them in Washington state's capital city, authorities said.
The officer reported he was being assaulted with a skateboard early Wednesday before the shooting in Olympia that left a 21-year-old man critically injured and a 24-year-old man in stable condition. Both were expected to survive.
The shooting, which is being investigated by a team of detectives from several agencies, prompted some protests.
"We are committed to helping our community work through this difficult circumstance and help us understand this tragic event," Olympia Police Chief Ronnie Roberts said at news conference.
Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Police-Washington-officer-shot-men-who-tried-to-6278215.php
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)just like all other club-type weapons.
There needs to be lots more details before any accurate judgement can be made.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...and, one time, a BIG guy (even bigger than Dad, who was quite big himself) went after him with a baseball bat. Dad never drew his gun. He simply stood back (again... and again) while this moran swung the bat. After 2 minutes, the guy finally tired out and Dad simply cuffed him.
THAT'S how a LEO should do his job, not shoot first.
That was my point...
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Sometimes not.
At this point, we don't know which situation this was.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Let 'em go at it. They will be exhausted in about a minute. Then you can break it up.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)It does not always work out so well for the participants.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)breaking up fights or getting hit by swinging fists.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)swung like a bat.
Dodging one would not be that hard. If both suspects are swinging the boards, you are in trouble.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)easy to do with a single attacker, harder to do against multiple.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...as long as you were faster, even slightly faster.
Deadly force should ALWAYS be a last resort, not the first, ESPECIALLY if you're a well-trained professional. That's the rub. Today's police are mal-trained to resort to deadly force FIRST.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)The job of the cops is to take the suspects into custody using whatever level of force is reasonably needed to overcome any resistance by the suspects. Retreating is normally not the correct tactic for the cops.
Since the suspects escalated to deadly force, defending themselves with the same level of force is reasonable and expected.
For the civilians, it is a different story.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)...and have reached the assessment that that ANY threat (deadly and, even, non-deadly) should be met with deadly force. You doubt this? Look at all the cop indictments recently. Justice is catching up with them. FINALLY!
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Just watch the news.
However, that does not make their behavior acceptable nor legal nor right.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)Please define...
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)That is what you meant in #24, right?
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)In this case, we don't have enough data yet to accurately decide.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Unfortunately too many cops it seems think that is their job but it is not.
http://www.criminaljusticeusa.com/police-officer/
And from Olympia, WA, where this took place...
http://olympiawa.gov/city-services/police-department.aspx
http://olympiawa.gov/city-services/police-department/employment.aspx
The Olympia Police Department is an innovative, full service law enforcement agency whose mission is to proactively address crime and reduce victimization, while safe guarding the constitutional rights of all people. On a daily basis, that purpose engages our employees in complex, challenging tasks that are constantly changing. For that reason, we seek both commissioned and civilian employees who have a solid educational background and a strong work ethic, plus exceptional maturity, flexibility, self-control, common sense, sensitivity and talent at interpersonal communication and problem solving.
Contemporary law enforcement is a particularly satisfying career choice for those who pride themselves on having vision, but who find their greatest enjoyment comes from successfully applying sound concepts to the solution of real-life problems.
Nope. Nothing there that says "The job of the cops is to take the suspects into custody using whatever level of force is reasonably needed to overcome any resistance by the suspects. Retreating is normally not the correct tactic for the cops. "
Also, since the article has not specified what he meant by "assaulted with a skateboard", your comment of "Since the suspects escalated to deadly force" is another assumption you are making.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)nothing you posted disagrees with what I posted.
Any use of a club-type weapon is lethal force unless you have been trained in the non-lethal use of the weapon. You would seem to need to brush up on your self-defense training.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I used a skateboard (a club-like weapon according to you) when I was a kid. I used "lethal force"?
Now you are getting silly so I am done with this discussion. Bye.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)then, no, you were not using the board as a lethal weapon. But you knew that already.
If by "use" you meant "assaulted another person", then, yes, you were using lethal force. Feel free to educate yourself if you are confused. Ask questions; lots of us here are happy to help.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Mercy it's a wonder the cop survived.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)"There needs to be lots more details before any accurate judgement can be made."
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I also see nothing about 2 people swinging skateboards like bats.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)would be the common method of assaulting another with a skateboard.
The current article reads nothing like the original version.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Nope. Nothing in the article that says it was being swung like a bat.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)No one has claimed the article actually said that.
However, I am familiar with the common methods of using a skateboard as a weapon, ie swung like a bat.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)YOU : I was under the impression it was being swung like a bat.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1100147
ME: Where did you read that?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1100156
YOU: From the link in the OP.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)See also, implied and inferred.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)is all about hypothetical situations, right?
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)And didn't nuke Iraq over it!
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Until you have, you have no right to criticize our law enforcement heroes.
Yes, Mable, its sarcasm.
Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #1)
Hoppy This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Hoppy (Reply #6)
ManiacJoe This message was self-deleted by its author.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)For starters, effective use means holding them by the trucks which means that the flat side is going to be the side to the opponent.
Unless you are extremely lucky to land a head shot, the broad surface area precludes serious impact force.
Slinging it sideways to make use of the 'edge' is very awkward and easily dodged.
Swinging one is also slow.
So, no, not a deadly weapon like a bat or club.
And any trained cop should know this.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)Yes, I agree that they would make poor weapons; but weapons none the less.
As for being a deadly weapon, you need to brush up on your self defense laws.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)The got in a fight at a skate park, he popped the other kid in the head. Several hours later the other kid showed up in our ER and eventually died from a brain bleed.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)2 young black men with skateboards? That sounds like it could fit quite a few people at the skateboard park that night.
http://www.theolympian.com/2015/05/21/3737619_two-suspected-shoplifters-shot.html?rh=1
Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/2015/05/21/3737619_two-suspected-shoplifters-shot.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)crim son
(27,464 posts)from the Police Academy here in Bangor. He has expressed surprise at how he was trained to respond to anything that looks like it might be a threat, i.e. literally, react first and think later. As a smart kid he understands this is a problem but acknowledges that not everybody who graduated with him gets it.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I will bet any amount of money this is one of those situations where the police officer got in too deep, too quickly, and had to shoot his way out. Cops do this all the time, rush in where some minor crime has been committed, thinking they're going to arrest John Dillinger or somebody. Then they find they're not able to retreat or back down, so they start shooting.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I do not in any way intend to dismiss or blow off the seriousness of the event nor its implications for our society.
But, having worked around a lot of tragic circumstances as I have, one develops a certain proclivity for Galgenhumor, so I can't quite restrain myself from pointing out that it does give new meaning to "a beer and a shot."