Israel's New Deputy Foreign Minister: 'This Land Is Ours. All Of It Is Ours'

[Purveyor]

Source: Guardian UK



Israel’s new deputy foreign minister on Thursday delivered a defiant message to the international community, saying that Israel owes no apologies for its policies in the Holy Land and citing religious texts to back her belief that it belongs to the Jewish people.

The speech by Tzipi Hotovely illustrated the influence of hardliners in Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s new government, and the challenges he will face as he tries to persuade the world that he is serious about pursuing peace with the Palestinians.

Hotovely, 36, is among a generation of young hardliners in Netanyahu’s Likud party who support West Bank settlement construction and oppose ceding captured land to the Palestinians. Since Netanyahu has a slim one-seat majority in parliament, these lawmakers could complicate any attempt to revive peace talks.

With Netanyahu also serving as the acting foreign minister, Hotovely is currently the country’s top full-time diplomat.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/israels-new-deputy-foreign-minister-this-land-is-ours-all-of-it-is-ours

[bl968]

1. Enough said...

vimeo.com/50531435

Enough said...

[jtuck004]

3. Exactly. n/t

[StandingInLeftField]

33. Brilliantly illustrating...

...the human condition.

[Fournier]

34. :)

Andy Williams had a little trouble hitting that high note in "until I die-e-e-e-e-e."

[Journeyman]

2. Least likable cover of an old Woody Guthrie standard . . .

[ForgoTheConsequence]

4. Can't be true.

Israel is a liberal, secular, social democracy, the paid Israeli internet brigade keeps saying so.

[oberliner]

11. Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-6262644.html

Is the US a secular, social democracy?

[Depaysement]

14. Cool

Israel= GWB

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[oberliner]

15. Try again

Current RW Israeli government = Most Recent RW US government

[Depaysement]

16. Try a little harder

The drafters of Plan D say hello.

[oberliner]

17. Huh?

I was just pointing out that you can't compare Israel to George Bush. You can either compare Israel to the US or compare Netanyahu to Bush. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[Depaysement]

19. And so

I just pointed out that Israel's belief in acquiring all of Palestine is not just a RW phenomenon. It goes back at least to Plan D. Thus, the comparison to Bush is invalid.

[oberliner]

21. You have no idea what you are talking about

Based on the Israeli definition of the West Bank, Barak offered to form a Palestinian state initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is, 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10–25 years, the Palestinian state would expand to a maximum of 92% of the West Bank (91 percent of the West Bank and 1 percent from a land swap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

That was in 2000.

[geek tragedy]

26. It was still an offer for a swiss-cheese, non-viable state

because of those damn settlements.

Nablus/Jenin would be cut off from Ramallah, and Ramallah itself would be cut off from Bethlehem and Hebron.

Would Israel be willing to live with Tel Aviv being completely isolated and cut off from Jerusalem, surrounded by Palestinian villages with armed Palestinians patrolling its borders?

And of course Israel would get to keep control of the water resources in the WB. How very, very, very generous.

And, of course, even that low-ball offer was enough to get Barak voted out of office by the Israeli voting public.

[oberliner]

31. But it runs counter to "the goal of acquiring all of Palestine"

If that was indeed the goal, then no such offer would have made.

[geek tragedy]

37. they want control of the entire area, and they certainly want its water.

Barak wasn't willing to give either up, but he still went way too far in the eyes of the Israeli public.

The Israeli public's support for a two-state solution is largely built on a myth, a self-deception.

[oberliner]

40. No they don't

The Israeli public definitely supports a two-state solution (minus the religious extremists) and would be more than happy to not have this situation plague them for all eternity.

I bring up Barak because his offer makes clear the differences between various PM's of Israel, just like there are differences between Obama and Bush (though both do share a few commonalities).

Please note the comment that I was responding to in the first place.

[geek tragedy]

42. The Israelis support the brand "Two-State Solution" but oppose anything resembling

an actual Palestinian state. They lie to themselves about what they want.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-peace-conference/1.601996

When the implications of partition and the specifics of an agreement were presented to the respondents – “The establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 boundaries with border modifications, most of the settlements to be annexed to Israel, Jerusalem to be divided and no return of refugees” – support for the two-state solution plummeted to 35 percent, with 58 percent replying in the negative.

...


In the question that presented possible long-term solutions, partition of the country was the most popular, preferred by 28 percent of those polled. At the same time, two other possibilities were not far behind: “Continuation of the present situation” is favored by 25 percent; and an apartheid state model – “one state, in which the Palestinians will have limited rights,” as the question phrased it – is preferred by 23 percent of Israelis. Only 10 percent said they would opt for a state in which all citizens will have equal rights.

...


The question of what would be preferable – a peace agreement that would require the evacuation of settlements, or continuation of the settlements without an agreement – drew almost identical responses: 45 percent are in favor of an agreement and settlement evacuation; 43 percent are in favor of the current status quo with the settlements.

So, apartheid (status quo + formal annexation) outpolls two-state solution, barely a third support a two-state solution when informed of basic details of any deal, and there is not majority support of a peace agreement that would mean settlement evacuation.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/20/israeli-jews-oppose-palestinian-state-poll-shows



Israel is not a liberal place, full of liberal people. It is one of the most racist societies on the planet.

The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.

A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank.

A sweeping 74 percent majority is in favor of separate roads for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. A quarter - 24 percent - believe separate roads are "a good situation" and 50 percent believe they are "a necessary situation."

Almost half - 47 percent - want part of Israel's Arab population to be transferred to the Palestinian Authority and 36 percent support transferring some of the Arab towns from Israel to the PA, in exchange for keeping some of the West Bank settlements.

Although the territories have not been annexed, most of the Jewish public (58 percent ) already believes Israel practices apartheid against Arabs. Only 31 percent think such a system is not in force here. Over a third (38 percent ) of the Jewish public wants Israel to annex the territories with settlements on them, while 48 percent object.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/survey-most-israeli-jews-wouldn-t-give-palestinians-vote-if-west-bank-was-annexed.premium-1.471644

People can bleat about Netanyahu and the need to replace him. The reality is that he is the most representative of Israel--he is the PM Israel deserves.

Israel cannot be reasoned with.

[oberliner]

46. Could not disagree with you more here

First question, have you been to Israel?

Tel Aviv is easily one of the most liberal cities in the world, and Israel is certainly the most liberal country in the region by a wide margin.

The country is rooted in Socialism. There is universal health care, equal rights for women, significant levels of LGBT rights, affirmative actions programs geared towards minorities, publicly subsidized education, legalized abortion. Literally on every social issue you can name Israel falls on the liberal side.

[geek tragedy]

49. Most liberal country in the MidEast and $5 gets you coffee at Starbucks.

Economically, Israel is one of the more rightwing countries in the developed world.

http://www.haaretz.com/business/.premium-1.656378

In the majority of categories measured, including housing, the level of education, environmental quality and social inequalities, Israel’s performance falls below average, economist Claude Giorno told the annual meeting of the Joint Distribution Committee-Ashalim, a JDC program that works with children at risk and their families.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/21/news/economy/worst-inequality-countries-oecd/

The U.S. and Israel have the worst inequality in the developed world, according to a report from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

The OECD found that the gap between rich and poor is at record levels in most of its 34 member countries. But the U.S. and Israel stood out from the pack

...

Both the U.S. and Israel have seen inequality grow faster in part because of comparatively low spending on social programs and benefits, said Mark Pearson, the author of the 330-page report. Other countries, such as France, are better at redistributing wealth using taxes and benefits, he said.

...

Israel also has problems with encouraging women to enter the workforce, which can prevent poor families from getting ahead, said Pearson.

"There's a [long] way to go in Israel to get the female employment rates higher," he said, noting that religious and cultural factors have kept many women at home.

That, and the whole rampant, unapologetic racism thing.

[Martin Eden]

54. Agreed, the "Two State Solution" is a charade

There can be no viable Palestinian state that is sliced & diced by Israeli settlements and the roads connecting them. One of the following 2 things would have to take place:

1) Israelis abandon their WB settlements, except perhaps a few that are close to and contiguous with the official border of Israel.
2) Israelis in the WB agree to be residents of a Palestinian state, subject to Palestinian laws & authority.

Under what circumstances will either of those things happen? It is one thing for liberal Israelis to express support for the idea of a "Two State Solution" in an opinion poll, but it is something else entirely for the Israeli government to forcibly expell tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Israeli citizens from settlements that have been their homes (in some areas) for generations.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

Not while Israel is a powerful military force funded by US taxpayers.

[Depaysement]

39. A pitiful deflection

First, this is not true. Ask Robert Malley, among others, who was in the room when Barak made this "offer." You can find one reply to Barak in his June 13, 2002 NYROB article.

Second, this has nothing to do with Plan D.

Third, it does not address the right of return - more than 5 million Palestinians in the diaspora. This was a key stumbling block at Camp David.

Fourth, the Green Line is the armistice line, beyond what Israel should be entitled to.

I could go on and on but all of this has been detailed hundreds of times . . . . do a little reading so you may one day know what YOU are talking.

[oberliner]

41. You made a false claim

Your claim was that all Israeli leaders have tried to take as much Palestinian land as possible.

I countered that claim by showing you a recent Israeli leader who made a proposal that contradicts your thesis.

The article by Robert Malley actually confirms that Barak did make such an offer:

Excerpt:

If there is one issue that Israelis agree on, it is that Barak broke every conceivable taboo and went as far as any Israeli prime minister had gone or could go. Coming into office on a pledge to retain Jerusalem as Israel’s “eternal and undivided capital,” he ended up appearing to agree to Palestinian sovereignty—first over some, then over all, of the Arab sectors of East Jerusalem. Originally adamant in rejecting the argument that Israel should swap some of the occupied West Bank territory for land within its 1967 borders, he finally came around to that view. After initially speaking of a Palestinian state covering roughly 80 percent of the West Bank, he gradually moved up to the low 90s before acquiescing to the mid-90s range.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2001/aug/09/camp-david-the-tragedy-of-errors/

All the other stuff you mention here would constitute an actual deflection.

You made a claim. I proved it to be false. Now you are throwing around other issues that were not part of the initial claim (which was, in your words: "Israel's belief in acquiring all of Palestine is not just a RW phenomenon". You wrote that - and the evidence disproves it.

[geek tragedy]

43. And Barak was thrown out of office by Israel's thoroughly racist electorate

because he tried to make a lasting peace with the Palestinians rather than the preferred method of walls, checkposts, barbed wire, and the iron fist of the IDF.

[oberliner]

45. Like the US threw out Jimmy Carter and replaced him with Ronald Reagan

This is my point, and I actually think we may agree.

My point is that the current Israeli right-wing government is like the previous right-wing US government.

I don't agree with the other poster who claimed that all Israeli governments are like the previous right-wing US government.

I think both countries (Israel and the US) have had their swings to the right and to the left.

[geek tragedy]

50. Israel hasn't had a swing to the left in decades.

It has slight wobbles between center-right (Kadima) and extreme right (Likud).

[Depaysement]

52. Ok, almost all of Palestine

That's really your distinction?

If that deal had gone through Israel still would have had 80% of Mandatory Palestine. Israel had 78% of Palestine when it declared independence.

And then, from the article, there is this:

"The final and largely unnoticed consequence of Barak’s approach is that, strictly speaking, there never was an Israeli offer. Determined to preserve Israel’s position in the event of failure, and resolved not to let the Palestinians take advantage of one-sided compromises, the Israelis always stopped one, if not several, steps short of a proposal. "

And this, again from the article, which is right after the paragraph you quote:

"Even so, it is hard to state with confidence how far Barak was actually prepared to go."

So basically it was all bullshit and it has remained all bullshit ever since, no matter which Israeli Government was in power..

[okaawhatever]

5. I don't think this will be a problem:

"challenges he (Netanyahu) will face as he tries to persuade the world that he is serious about pursuing peace". I don't think there is anyone left in the world who believes he is serious about pursuing peace.

And this won't be a problem either:

"these lawmakers could complicate any attempt to revive peace talks"

See above.

[Martin Eden]

53. Netanyahu wants Peace ...

... on HIS terms. Ultimately that means a Greater Israel encompassing all the land, in which Palestinians have either been expelled or stripped of rights in an apartheid state.

The problem with those terms is that neither the Palestinians nor the Arab world will accept that kind of peace.

[Fearless]

6. That can't end in genocide

Right?

[DetlefK]

10. Well, Israel IS sabotaging palestinian access to irrigation-water.

Genocide means bad press.
It is far better to make the lives of the undesired people so horrible that they move away. Crushing villages, burning plantations, denying building permits, blocking access to rivers, poisoning wells, stealing land... But ISRAEL is the victim here.

[msongs]

7. israelites have been doing this for 3000 years. remember the walls of Jericho and the slaughter

afterwards.

[LeftishBrit]

13. Huh?

You think this is something unique to 'Israelites'?

[olegramps]

27. No, but they still claim that they were give authority to do so by God Himself.

How brutal was their take over during the conquering of Palestine? Read Numbers Chapter 31 in which they conquered the Midianites.
After prevailing in their assault they were commanded by God to slay every male including children and infants. They could spare females who were virgins, but any women or young female who wasn't an virgin was to be put to death. Females who were spared were then keep as little more than sex slaves.

I believe that most would agree that people would still claim that they were given this land by God are ridiculously delusional.

[libdem4life]

28. Not at all...this amazing film represents it perfectly. I've referred to Hagar and Ishmael re

Abraham...and that's where this particular issue was created (by the Abrahamic god, apparently).

Most of these other players are in some way also mentioned in the supposedly historical version in the Old Testament. Blood and gore for millenia...King after King...other civilizations/cultures have similar events with similar players, just slanted differently.

But some of them come back...notably the Persians, the Jews, the Egyptians, and what is now called the Arabs. Another post refers to Hydra...the multi-tentacled/headed mythological creature, made myth and held in the collective psyche (IMO). Every ME war we chop off one "head" and two more appear. First Iraq, then Iran (too big to bomb so we do the sanction thingy) now Syria/Isis, arming Israel, pissing off the brown Americas, Venezuela and others (Quetzalcoatl), et al.

This has no good ending, short of Hercules reappearing (the Savior in the Hydra Myth). And even that is covered in Revelations and attributed to Jesus Christ coming down from Heaven to create peace (after Armageddon) and sit on the throne of Jewish Mount of Jerusalem.

Myths are powerful elements of a cultural, national, religious psyche. Most are symbology from constellations ... which name our "Star Power". Did they happen? No one knows for sure. But the elements/behaviors can be seen every day. Zeus' group is especially interesting. I digress.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

8. She's got the look of someone who isn't used to being told they're wrong.

[LeftishBrit]

12. [phone]

I was all for pure PR until I found out how it distorted democracy and fuelled extremism in Israel.

Though Hotovely herself is a member of the Likud. The Likud in general is hawkish but secular, but she describes herself as a 'religious right-winger' and as well as being a one-stater, is strongly opposed to mixed marriages for example. She has accused liberal Israeli writer Amos Oz of being unable to distinguish Mordechai from Haman.

The religious right seem to be pretty similar in all faiths; and 'Hotovely' seems to be the Hebrew word for 'Palin'.

[geek tragedy]

25. Sarah Palin in Hebrey is pronounced "Ayelet Shaked."

This one's name translates to "Michelle Bachmann."

And these are the ones in charge of law enforcement and diplomacy in Israel.

[LeftishBrit]

38. Yes, you're right

[Deny and Shred]

18. The true impediment to a two-state solution

Israel

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

20. So basically she wants to drive the Palestinians out into the sea?.... nt

[SwankyXomb]

51. I'm sure they have other

Final Solutions ready to implement.

[Mosby]

56. The jury left your anti-semitic comment 3-4

[Bossy Monkey]

22. I'm glad that's settled. You won't need any more aid then. n/t

[FlatBaroque]

23. The Israeli defense minister has also

suggested that nuking Iran would be a moral thing to do.

[Tom Ripley]

24. "Because fairy tales for herdsmen say so!"

[closeupready]

29. Proof that establishment Israel does NOT want peace with the Palestinians.

It does NOT serve their aim of territorial conquest if the Palestinians remain peaceful.

[Marrah_G]

30. Nasty beliefs.

[olddots]

32. diplomat ????

isn't that spelled dip shit ?

[Fournier]

35. Israeli governments come and go, but the goal is always the same.

Eretz Ysrael - the kingdom of David, from the Med to the Jordan. Let's not even get started on the land that God gave Abraham, which goes from the Euphrates to the Nile.

[tridim]

36. Thank you for letting us know about your mental disorder Minister Hotovely.

Now, please seek help and rejoin humanity, then maybe we can begin to talk about solutions that don't involve killing everyone that isn't you.

[FLPanhandle]

44. I'm going to write a new holy text that gives Key West to me

Since, fictional stories (as long as they are called "Holy&quot are now the basis for land ownership.

"Ya, hear me know, may the southern most island off the Land of the Mouse, shall forever be given to the poster FLPanhandle and all his descendants"

That should do it.

[closeupready]

55. Well, seriously, if Scientology or Mormonism can be deemed "real"

by US authorities, then why the heck not? Go for it. Claim the Earth's supply of fresh water, while you're at it - could be profitable.

[iandhr]

47. Once god starts talking to people all other rational thought goes out the window.

[Xolodno]

48. I wonder what would happen if...

Palestine declared itself Samaria and was entitled to all of northern Israel. Oh and claim that they are the "lost tribes" but God told them to convert to Islam.

[romanic]

57. I may sound naive

but why can't Israel and Palestine just merge into one unified country? I know about the religious and government differences and all that, but can't both nations push aside the past and figure out a way to become one?