Obama Stresses Support for Israel, but Refuses to ‘Paper Over’ Discord

[Purveyor]

Source: New York Times

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVISMAY 22, 2015

WASHINGTON — President Obama sought to reassure American Jews that he is a fierce supporter of Israel as he visited an influential synagogue here on Friday to defend his quest for a nuclear agreement with Iran. The visit was also an attempt to mend a strained relationship with parts of the American Jewish community that dates to the start of Mr. Obama’s presidency and has worsened in recent months.

“When I hear some people say that disagreements over policy belie a general lack of support of Israel, I must object — and I object forcefully,” Mr. Obama said. But he said he was unwilling to “paper over differences.”

Calling himself an “honorary member of the tribe,” Mr. Obama, wearing a yarmulke and standing at the bimah where rabbis chant from the Torah, told about 1,000 people in the packed sanctuary at Adas Israel, a large Conservative congregation about three miles from the White House, that the United States had an “enduring friendship with the people of Israel” and “unbreakable bonds with the state of Israel” that could never be weakened.

“Our commitment to Israel’s security, and my commitment to Israel’s security is, and always will be, unshakable,” Mr. Obama said.

And, he said, “it is precisely because I care so deeply about the state of Israel that I feel a responsibility to speak out honestly about what I think would lead to long-term security and to the preservation of a true democracy in the Jewish homeland.” He added, “I believe that’s two states for two peoples, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/23/us/visting-synagogue-obama-restates-his-commitment-to-israel.html?_r=0

[geek tragedy]

1. States don't have friends, they have interests.

It's not his job to be Israel's friend, to look out for Israel's best interests, or to fret about Israel's future. It certainly isn't his job to conduct some kind of intervention.

Israel is a sovereign state that has shown it can handle its own affairs. If they mismanage them--even to its own doom--that's not our problem. Treat them like adults.

[JDPriestly]

2. Have you seen the film, Treblinka? It's available on Netflix.

I suggest that DUers who do not understand why Israel exists, why it must exist, watch that film.

Between 700,000 and 800,000 Jews and others such as gypsies, entered Treblinka. Within a very short time, most of them were coldly murdered. 70-75 out of the total number of Jews who entered that camp escaped or otherwise survived.

The brutality, the horror, of Treblinka and certain other extermination and work camps that were part of the Holocaust cannot be imagined and have apparently been forgotten by many today.

Israel is necessary.

There must be a refuge for the Jewish people.

The Middle East is a large area. Israel is relatively small.

The Jews suffered persecution for thousands of years. It's time to give them some peace.

I hope that DUers will watch the film, Treblinka.

[geek tragedy]

4. The Israelis are not children. They know what they are doing and are more

than capable of managing their own affairs.

Independence means having the opportunity to both succeed and fail.

Not our job to save Israel from itself.

If the Israelis choose the one-state solution (I would argue they already have done so), then that is that and the Zionist project will have self-destructed.

[JDPriestly]

5. Actually, it was the Palestinians who chose the one-state solution.

It is the Palestinians who refused originally and long ago to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewsih state.

Read the history. The Israelis have simply given up due to the stubbornness of the Palestinians. Many Palestinians have left the area and live elsewhere. That is true pretty much of all countries in the world. We have waves of immigrants moving into other areas of the world. They come from one part of the world and go to another.

In Los Angeles, we have Little Tokyo, Koreatown, a little Philippines, areas with many Iranians, areas with many Armenians, Chinatown, etc. Immigration to new areas of the world is simply the mark of the 20th and 21st centuries. The immigration of Mexicans, Cubans and Central and South Americans to the US is a huge phenomena. They participate freely in our society, in our economy, and when they become citizens in our political institutions. Most Americans have ancestors who were immigrants.

And so, with Israel. It is a nation of immigrants. Palestinians need to get a wider view of the world. No nation can exclude immigrants. A two-nation solution would be great, but it can only happen if the Palestinians demonstrate that they can restrain their extremists and prevent them from attacking Israel and then move to the bargaining table and agree on the borders.

I favor a two-state solution within borders agreed by the parties. But what does Israel have to lose with its aggressive taking of land as long as there is no desire on the part of Palestinians to recognize Israel within any borders?

What borders for Israel has Palestine stated that it would agree to?

[Scootaloo]

7. There is so much poor thinking here that it'll take a while to unpack...

It is the Palestinians who refused originally and long ago to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewsih state.

This has to do with the fact that the establishment of Israel as any state necessitates the disenfranchisement and dispossession of Palestinian Arabs. Making it a definitively "Jewish" state means that this disenfranchisement will need to be regularly perpetrated in order to keep that "Jewish Character."

obviously they were right.

Read the history. The Israelis have simply given up due to the stubbornness of the Palestinians. Many Palestinians have left the area and live elsewhere. That is true pretty much of all countries in the world. We have waves of immigrants moving into other areas of the world. They come from one part of the world and go to another.

yeah, ethnic cleansing and systemic brutality against a powerless population does tend to create refugees.

In Los Angeles, we have Little Tokyo, Koreatown, a little Philippines, areas with many Iranians, areas with many Armenians, Chinatown, etc. Immigration to new areas of the world is simply the mark of the 20th and 21st centuries. The immigration of Mexicans, Cubans and Central and South Americans to the US is a huge phenomena. They participate freely in our society, in our economy, and when they become citizens in our political institutions. Most Americans have ancestors who were immigrants.

of course, the many Armenian people living in Los Angeles have not begun a campaign of assassination, terror and murder in order to drive forth the non-Armenians in order to establish a new Armenian state in Los Angeles county against the clear wishes of the Angelino - much less american - people.

Nor did the immigrant Jews attempt to assimilate into Palestine. Instead they staged a violent takeover with British backing.

And so, with Israel. It is a nation of immigrants. Palestinians need to get a wider view of the world. No nation can exclude immigrants. A two-nation solution would be great, but it can only happen if the Palestinians demonstrate that they can restrain their extremists and prevent them from attacking Israel and then move to the bargaining table and agree on the borders.

I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.
- John Wayne

You really have no idea how arrogant and racist you sound, do you?

I favor a two-state solution within borders agreed by the parties. But what does Israel have to lose with its aggressive taking of land as long as there is no desire on the part of Palestinians to recognize Israel within any borders?

Well it probably has more to do with the fact that no matter what, Israel has the US at its back in the Security council. Israel is like a child - it knows it can get away with stealing shit, so it will steal shit. Israel has nothing to lose because the US will stymie any effort to make Israel face repercussions for what it does. it has nothing to do with the Palestinians - it has been shown clearly that no action they take will stop the continued conquest of Palestine and the dispersion of its people.

What borders for Israel has Palestine stated that it would agree to?

Palestine's leaders have made it abundantly clear they would be willing to use the 1949 armistice lines as working borders in exchange for peace. It's important to note that this would mean legally ceding a third of Palestine (that is, the portions of the Palestine territory outside of Israel's declared borders in 1948) to Israel. It's also important to note that it's Israel refusing this notion, because it wants even more territory than that. it wants all of its colonies in the West Bank, it wants the whole of Jerusalem, it wants the Jordan Valley, it wants Gaza to stay a prison, etc.

[JDPriestly]

13. The solution is a two-state solution that may in the future merge into one state when both

sides learn to trust each other and be tolerant and assist each other.

The Palestinians have thus far not punished or jailed their own terrorists who attack Israelis and Jews. Do you remember the Achille Lauro? I do.

Please watch that film Treblinka.

Palestinians have never accepted the reality of Israel. They can talk about land when the Palestinian government and the Israeli government agree that each will prosecute any citizen of their country that attacks the other country and when the resolve their border dispute.

[Scootaloo]

16. And the only thing in the way of two states is Israel's desire for one state

[lancer78]

21. So people today

must suffer for sins of the past?

[geek tragedy]

8. The Palestinians recognized Israel a long time ago.

The Israelis have continud their orgy of land theft via settlement building at such a reckless pace that it's impossible for them to withdraw. So they are the masters in the apartheid system of military occupation they've drawn up.

All apartheid states must end.

[JDPriestly]

12. When did the Palestinians "recognize" Israel?

When did they enforce the law against attacking Israel against their own citizens?
Within what borders did they recognize Israel?
Have you seen the movie, Treblinka, which is available on Netflix?

[Scootaloo]

18. Around the same time Israel recognized Palestine.

I kid, I kid - Palestine recognized Israel in 1988, and again in 1993. Abbas has acknowledged this several times during his time as prime Minister.

Israel has never once recognized that Palestinians exist ("there are no such people," says one of their more repugnant Prime ministers) much less their right to do so, and certainly not as a nation-state.

[Comrade Grumpy]

25. Yes, because the Palestinians have all the power in this situation, right?

Poor little Israel.

[JDPriestly]

26. The Palestinians have just as much power to choose peace as the Israelis do, maybe more.

When Israel wanted peace, the Palestinians insisted on the right of return. The Palestinians still insist on the right of return. That won't work. The only thing that will work is a two-state solution. When the Israelis tried that, allowing Palestinians to work in and enter Israel, the Palestinians bombed civilian Israelis in buses.

Both sides have to choose peace and co-existence. That's their only choice. Eventually, both sides will choose peace. It's a matter of time

But they are pretty equal in their ability to choose peace and make it happen if they want it.

[Ken Burch]

32. Why the obsessive fixation with the phrase "as a Jewish state"?

It should be more than enough for the Palestinians to recognize the State of Israel(as the PA did in 1994, and as Egypt and Jordan had done before that).

It's petty for Netanyahu to insist that Palestinians recognize Israel in any other terms than the ones everyone else recognize it as. No one should encourage him and the rest of the Israeli right in their childishness on the exact phrasing of the recognition.

[Scootaloo]

6. I suggest that you not exploit the Holocaust to justify your bad politics

And yes, that's what you're doing.

[JDPriestly]

11. Have you watched Treblinka?

[Scootaloo]

15. Among several other films. And books i've read

The crimes of the Nazis do not excuse the crimes of Israel. It's very, very simple. Absolutely nothing about the Holocaust justifies what was done - is being done - to the Palestinians. And your attempt to argue otherwise is crass and grotesque exploitation of the millions killed.

[woo me with science]

35. Thank you. nt

[Ken Burch]

33. Treblinka was a horror, as were all the other acts of that era.

But the only people responsible for those actions were the European Christians who collaborated with the Third Reich and the nations of North America(the U.S. and Canada) that refused to give sanctuary to those fleeing Hitler's genocidal project.

The Holocaust has nothing whatsoever to do with the Israel/Palestine debate. And it's totally inappropriate for the Israeli government to bring it up either to justify what it does to Palestinians(a group who were blameless in the crime)and its insistence on getting the U.S. to bomb Iran. It is NOT 1938(contrary to Netanyahu's paranoid lies), and nobody in Iran or Palestine has anything in common with Hitler.

[sulphurdunn]

9. Nothing has to exist.

If there really is a Promised Land for Jews it's obviously the United States. Sadly, for Zionist, the US is not a "Jewish State." To create that monster it was necessary to invade Palestine and dispossess hundred of thousands of non-Jews from their land and treat the remainder as inferior people to this day. It is small wonder they refuse to accept such a status quo.

Honestly, I am sick and tired of history being used as an excuse for the oppression and murder of innocent people. Israelis are the oppressors in Palestine, not the victims. After what the IDF did in Gaza last summer it amazes me how any rational or moral person could justify such an atrocity as legitimate and necessary self-defense.

[JDPriestly]

10. And have you watched Treblinka? Have you lived in Europe?

I have. We need Israel. I'm not Jewish, and I say the world needs Israel. We move over for immigrants. So can the Palestinians.

[sulphurdunn]

14. Few of the world's Jews

live in Europe anymore. Eighty-five percentage live about equally between the US and Israel. Israeli Jews came to Palestine as invaders in 1948, not immigrants. Fanatics in Israel and Palestine refuse to acknowledge the others right to exist. Lunatics on both sides have called for a genocidal solution.

The only solution will come when Israel returns to its pre-1967 boarders and recognizes a two state solution to the problem it created in 1948 and exacerbated in 1967.

[former9thward]

19. "It" did not create any problem.

The UN mandated two states in the region. One for Jews and one for Palestinians. The Jews accepted that and the Palestinians rejected it. The Palestinians created the problem and were exploited by the Arabs who immediately went to war with Israel.

[sulphurdunn]

20. The problem was that the Zionists decided

that 800,000 Palestinians couldn't remain in the homeland of the Jewish people, so they began driving them out. The Arab states, which supported the allies in hopes of shaking off the Ottoman Empire, felt betrayed. War ensued. The Arabs lost. The Palestinians were dispossessed. The second major phase of the annexation began in 1967 and has continued unabated.

The writings of David Ben-Gurion and the Arab nationalists make it clear that neither side had any intention of accepting a two state solution, Zionist propaganda to the contrary. The Arabs have always been more honest about their true intentions than the Israelis.

[former9thward]

22. Number of Arab citizens in Israel -- 1.6 million.

Number of Jewish citizens in the Arab countries --zero. Yep, the Arabs sure are more honest about their intentions...

[sulphurdunn]

24. They rushed in to fill the vaccuum

left by the disposed Arab population. That was always the plan. Had the Arabs won the war it is certain many Jews would also have remained in a Palestinian state.

Ten percent of Israeli Arabs are Christian. They are among the best educated and accomplished people in Israel. By 2035, non-Jewish citizens will become the majority population in Israel. It will be interesting to see how the Zionist state deals with that.

[JDPriestly]

27. Israelis went to israel after WWII by buying property and then under the UN mandate.

I agree: "Lunatics on both sides ha"ve called for a genocidal solution.'

But I would say that peace will only come when Palestinians renounce their "right of return" and demonstrate that they want peace enough to prosecute those Palestinians that violate whatever borders the two countries agree to. Israel would also have to agree to prosecute those that violate the agreed borders.

[sulphurdunn]

28. The Zionists insisted

upon a "right of return" after 20 centuries. The Palestinians insist upon the same right after 67 years. Which side has the greater claim? Arabs who sold land to the Israelis have no right or return. Those driven off their land by war and annexation do.

If the Israelis ended their occupation and returned to their pre-1967 boarders, the right of return issue would certainly be resolved to the advantage of Israel. Any further justification for Palestinian hostilities would cease; world opinion and sympathy would shift to Israel.

[JDPriestly]

29. If the Palestinians declared that they would accept the 1967 borders without demanding the

right of return, then world opinion and sympathy would shift to Palestine.

Both parties have to choose peace.

[sulphurdunn]

30. I do not believe the Palestinians

would insist upon a right of return to land within the pre-1967 boarders of Israel. They will absolutely demand an end to the occupation, lifting the blockade of Gaza and a return of all territory annexed by Israel within the West Bank. That would mean the removal of all Jewish settlements or their transfer to Palestinian authority. They might even concede East Jerusalem if the Palestinians there were granted full rights as Israeli citizens.

[JDPriestly]

31. From the beginning to this date, enough Palestinians have insisted on the right of return and

violently attempted to obtain it without prosecution from any Palestinian leadership that Israel has taken more and more land and no peace has been possible.

The major issue in the dispute is the right of return.

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. Please Google this issue.

The Second Intifada occurred when Israel had begun to welcome Palestinians to work in Israel. Suddenly the fanatic Palestinians wanting the right to return to all of what they claim as Palestinian land (although the Israelis had bought much of it and had been given land by the United Nations after WWII) bombed buses and killed people and caused deaths of Israelis.

The right of return is the big impediment to peace. The Israelis have given up land before. They would, I believe, do it again if the Palestinians really wanted peace.

[sulphurdunn]

34. The Israelis have never given up land.

They have merely given some back under international pressure. The Second Intifada began the day Ariel Sharon derailed the Oslo Accords with his provocative armed "visit" to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. In typical IDF fashion, Israeli forces responded to demonstrations and rock throwers with massive live fire retaliation designed to escalate the violence, which it did, killing 47 Palestinians and wounding 1,800 others in the first few days. The Palestinians threw rocks. The IDF and the police fired approximately 1.3 million bullets in the first 5 days. Eighty-percent of Palestinians killed in the first month were demonstrators or bystanders slaughtered in this manner. At the same time thousands of Israelis rioted in Tel-Aviv, attacking Arabs, who then began killing Jews. The rest is history.

The real impediments to peace are the refusal of the Palestinian population to knuckle under to Israeli hegemony and the shocking credulity of American Jews to Zionist propaganda and their aggressive willingness to rationalize the mistreatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli government.

[greenfish]

3. Huckabee is a paper tiger

[Jesus Malverde]

23. He's guaranteed their quantitative military superiority

They are an unhappy ungrateful bunch.