Russia begins massive air force exercise

[Little Tich]

Source: BBC

Russia's military forces have begun a large exercise involving around 250 aircraft and 12,000 service personnel, according to its defence ministry.

The ministry described the four-day drill as a "massive surprise inspection", to check combat readiness.

The tests began on the same day as Nato and some of its partners started an Arctic training exercise.

Russia's actions in Ukraine and incursions into Western airspace have led to rising tensions with the West.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32877936

[AuntPatsy]

1. Hmmmm

[Ed Suspicious]

2. Swaggering?

[CAG]

3. They're gonna invade Texas!

Nt

[Joe Shlabotnik]

4. meh, it takes two sides to have a pissing contest.

Russia is up to bat at the urinal now.

[happyslug]

5. When one side does war games so does the other side, just in case the war games are NOT games

This happened during every cold war exercise in Germany, NATO would hold one at the same time the Warsaw Pact would hold maneuvers (And each side would send observers to the other). One of the reason for this is if the other side forces are "called up" for the maneuver, you want your forces ready also just in case it is NOT maneuvers.

One of the reason Omaha beach was so bloody was on the day the US hit the beach, the Germans were holding Maneuvers at the same date and time, and thus it was easy to switch from "Playing fighting off invaders" to doing the real thing. That was a war time training maneuver, but during peace time the same concern arise and to be careful you call up your troops also (and while called up, hold your own maneuvers). This type of training was considered essential but dangerous during the Cold War, thus announced months ahead of time AND both sides invited the others to observe their own maneuvers.

Thus not much about anything unless some one wants to start something. I do NOT see the Russians wanting to start anything in the Baltic, and I suspect one reason for this Maneuver is to pull Russian Forces from the Ukraine (Russian troops are clearly near the Ukrainian Border, Russia claims none are in the Ukraine, the Ukraine said yes they are, for this discussion that debate is unimportant, that Russia has troops NEAR the Ukrainian Border is the factor here).

We will see if this is just Maneuvers or something else.

[newthinking]

6. They had to add the last sentence (false to my knowlege) to spice it up?

Part of western propaganda / tabloid media is to report these things as actual transgressions onto western airspace.
But every one of them that I have looked at what was reported as a crossing was actually a maneuver close to a border but in international airspace (which all "sides" do).

So why the misinformation?

[Android3.14]

8. Knowledge was accurate according to this

A full list of 39 incidents since March 2014
As referenced in an Independent article

[newthinking]

9. Perfect example of an article that due to it's bias becomes soft propaganda

Once again they discuss actions that are within the airspace that countries consider their "DMZ" (areas they need to defend) and imply that they are not in international airspace, but are not broaching their actual airspace. Indeed that is dangerous, We do the same and it is normal cold war actitity (if you are old enough to have been aware of it).

I noticed also that this article includes the "russian submarine" incident, which was completely trumped up and was eventually admitted not to have been a Russian Submarine at all but a fishing boat (It was hyped by Swedish military to manipulate the Swedish people to increase their defense budget).

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sweden-suspected-foreign-submarine-turned-out-be-fishing-boat-n342036

I don't know if it is intentional but the fact that they also discuss war games that are indeed aggressive in nature, but completely leave out western war games and exercises that are equally aggressive. In essence this is not a neutral article but rather one with the viewpoint that our actions are incidental, which is not at all accurate.

I do agree that these incidents are very dangerous. As was the cold war. At multiple points we were all too close to misunderstanding and nuclear war. But that is what a cold war brings.

[Android3.14]

10. What does that have to do with your accusation of falsehood?

We were discussing whether you were correct when you said a line from the article was false. Pointing to articles (one of which I didn't even bring up) as biased has nothing to do with the accuracy of the statements.

If you have data or links refuting the sentence. "Russia's actions in Ukraine and incursions into Western airspace have led to rising tensions with the West," then please provide that.

I don't mind discussing bias, but I'm more interested in documentation that the 39 incidents I linked too were actually in international air space.

[Caspian Morgan]

11. Your asking him to prove something that most likely never happened.

How can you expect someone to find evidence for an assertion that is based upon no evidence? Wouldn't it make more sense for YOU to find what you claim are facts backing up your own assertion? And using BBC articles that have no backing by solid evidence doesn't count. We are now living in an age of propaganda. You have to have substantial video evidence to be believed.

[Android3.14]

12. I'll give that the thought it deserves

Moving on...

[newthinking]

14. Thanks - I actually did struggle to figure out how to answer his scepticism

But then several Generals have come out made it clear that Russians have not been breaching airspace.

Hopefully that is a sign that folks are getting ready to move away from the info-wars and to look toward de-escelation

[newthinking]

13. Several others did a better job of finding references

Then I did" Here

Nato and US generals saying that yes this is tense but yes Russia is adhering to international airspace.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141104584