New Zealand's new flag: final four designs announced

[brooklynite]

Source: The Guardian

New Zealanders will be given a choice between three ferns and a koru for a possible new flag, after the government-appointed panel published its final shortlist of four alternative designs.

The shortlist was announced by the deputy prime minister Bill English at the national museum Te Papa Tongarewa in Wellington on Tuesday morning.

Three show variations on the silver fern design known to be the preference of prime minister John Key: one in black and white, and two paired with the Southern Cross constellation. The fourth option is a koru, or unfurling fern frond, in black and white.

The New Zealand public will now rank these four designs in order of preference in a binding postal referendum to be held between 20 November 20 and 11 December. A second referendum, to be held in March next year, will pit the preferred alternative against the current flag.



Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/new-zealands-new-flag-final-four-designs-announced

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Thoughts:

They're going to go with the leaf (eliminates 4)

They're going to go with black (eliminates 2)

[KamaAina]

1. Upper right, please

[steve2470]

8. that's my choice too

Last edited Tue Sep 1, 2015, 04:29 PM - Edit history (1)

I have a NZ friend, I'll ask her too!

eta: her response

personally I am torn between our current flag and the Silver fern & southern cross with the black and blue background.

[SwissTony]

2. Lower left by a mile.

Has the black and the silver fern, but maintains the Southern Cross.

[sarge43]

4. Agree

Any meaningful symbolism of the fern - NZ's national plant?

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. The silver fern on black has been the symbol for the rugby team since 1894

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_rugby_union_team#Jersey

I'm not sure why they chose that then, though. Seeing as they have the best claim to being the best rugby team in the world over the long term, it has been a significant part of their national pride.

[sarge43]

31. Did some net surfing

The silver fern is an unofficial national symbol.

However, agree with John Oliver - the laser eyed kiwi is the best.

[David__77]

3. I prefer lower left.

I toyed with upper right, and then started to see it as "cheap" looking.

[Xipe Totec]

5. John Oliver had a go at them

[left-of-center2012]

6. Why aren't they keeping the current flag?

[sdfernando]

11. Because it is too close to the Aussie flag

The only significant difference between the two is the red stars as opposed to solid white on the Aussie flag.

[SwissTony]

12. Top left corner. I wish Oz would do the same. n/t

[Xithras]

17. A few reasons, but mostly because it's nearly identical to Australia's

For decades, the similarity between the NZ flag and the Australian flag has led to gaffes, including situations where the nations leaders and athletes have been seated under the wrong flags at international events. It's something that New Zealanders have been arguing about for decades.

Beyond that, there are other issues with the current flag. Many Kiwi's object to the fact that it's an artifact of British colonialism, and others dislike the fact that it's representative only of New Zealand's British past, even though the nation itself is multiethnic. They want a flag that is more representative of the people of New Zealand.

The fern leaf has been a symbol for a very long time, and is used in their coat of arms, by their military, and in all sorts of private and public symbols. It's a symbol embraced by both the Maori and the white population of the islands, so it makes sense that they'd base their new flag around it.

[Johnyawl]

22. Thanks for the explanation Xithras!

The fern leaf has been a symbol for a very long time, and is used in their coat of arms, by their military, and in all sorts of private and public symbols. It's a symbol embraced by both the Maori and the white population of the islands, so it makes sense that they'd base their new flag around it.


I was not aware of that! It's always a good day when this old dog learns something new!

[Xithras]

29. I work with a Kiwi. I just learned about this five minutes ago myself.

I have to admit that I didn't know a thing about the issue myself until I spun my chair around and asked him when I saw the thread.. Apparently the flag has been a subject of debate in New Zealand for decades, so he gave me the condensed two minute primer.

I should mention that the "swirl" flag also has important meaning to the Maori people. It's also a "fern" symbol, based off of an unrolling fern sprout. It symbolizes new life and progress to the Maori people, and is a widely used symbol throughout New Zealand. It's not used quite as widely as the fern leaf, but my co-worker is a greater fan of that design (though not the black and white colors) because of its symbolic meaning.

[enlightenment]

41. I like the unfurling fern the best,

though I'd like to see some color - maybe red, green (the fern leaf) and black.

[HardLineDem]

46. Yep -- go with the koru

The koru is both simple and distinctive -- but people, just black and white?

[fingrin]

56. Our glorius leader

needs to have the Union Jack removed from the flag so he can sign the TPPA is one theory.

[PassingFair]

7. Oh...I LOVE the lower right. Such simplicity!

It would be easily recognizable!

[Herman4747]

33. Yeah, Lower Right Rules (nt)

[Delphinus]

39. Me too! n/t

[underpants]

9. What ever happened to Old Zealand?

[SwissTony]

14. Still around.

It's called Zeeland, pronounced "Zayland". It's in Holland.

[underpants]

16. Oh

Well I've learned something new today. Thanks.

[SwissTony]

24. The Dutch and the French did a lot of sailing around Australia and New Zealand

before the Brits actually got over there and took possession of them. You see it in a few names. Tasmania was named after Abel Tasman, a Dutch explorer. "Groote eylandt" is a large island of the northern coast of Australia: it means "large island". We also have French names for places such as "Cape Naturaliste" and "Esperance".

There's probably some names in NZ (apart from Zealand), but I'm not as well versed on them.

[Xithras]

27. Tehcnically, Zeeland is in the Netherlands, not Holland.

Holland is a specific part of the Netherlands on the coast. Zeeland is a different part of the Netherlands, immediately south of Holland, on the same coast. When you look at a map of the Netherlands, the southernmost two peninsulas, accompanying islands, and the chunk of land south of them bordering Belgium are Zeeland. Everything else on the coast of the Netherlands north of Zeeland is Holland.

[SwissTony]

28. Technically, you are correct.

I actually live in Zuid Holland and speak Dutch and usually I insist on the difference between "The Netherlands" and "Holland". But many foreigners aren't aware of the difference. So, I was a bit sloppy.

But well spotted.

[Xithras]

32. Ah!

My guess would be that you're right, and that most foreigners (and nearly all Americans) wouldn't know the difference. I was only aware of it because about 15 years ago I took a five day trip exploring northern France and the low countries (Paris to Amsterdam, with a lot of detours in between), and I spent one of my nights in a little beachside cottage in Domburg. It's a beautiful area.

And since you mentioned that you live in south Holland, I just have to mention that I was mugged in Rotterdam. Not the brightest spot on my trip!

[SwissTony]

35. There are parts of every city that you shouldn't visit at the wrong time of day

Sorry to hear about your mugging!!

[Xithras]

36. Het Park?

Because of the way my schedule fell, I stayed overnight in a Rotterdam hotel near the train station. On a whim, I rented a bike and decided to go see the city. I was watching the water on the promenade along the river near Het Park when two guys walked up to me and asked me a question in Dutch. When I answered, in English, that I didn't speak Dutch, one of them shoved me down while the other grabbed my wallet and ran. They didn't hurt me, and there wasn't a lot of money in my wallet, but finishing my trip without any bank cards wasn't fun. Luckily for me, my passport was in my OTHER pocket and wasn't stolen. If they'd got that, I'd have been REALLY screwed.

I understand that there are thieves everywhere. Holland was beautiful and I'd visit again if I could, so I don't hold my mugging against the Dutch

[SwissTony]

37. Het park??????

I used to work in the Medical Faculty of Erasmus University. I used to work on the 20th floor (it's the big white building, not far from the Euromast). I've been to Het Park a thousand times. And never had a problem. Of course, almost all of my visits were at lunchtime when I was with friends. But I also parked parked my car next to the restaurant in the middle of the park on on the riverside. Both were free parking at the time.

[Xithras]

44. Across the street from it.

As I recall, there's the park, a road, and across the road is a promenade along the river. I was standing on the promenade watching the boats go by when it happened.

The police constable told me that it's normally a safe area, but he also said that thieves and pickpockets can be found anywhere in the city. The fact that I was out there alone, near sunset, probably made me an appealing target. The fact that I had an obviously rented bike might have also pegged me as a tourist, making me an even bigger target.

To the credit of the Dutch, a number of other people saw the attack and came running to help right away. When they realized that I was an American tourist, they were all very friendly and apologetic about the whole thing and really did want to help me out. Two of them even offered to buy me dinner!

Luckily, I'd already bought my train tickets, so I was able to make it to Amsterdam and use my passport to withdraw enough Euros from my bank to make it through the rest of the trip. It was a scary moment and a bit inconvenient, but it didn't ruin the trip or anything. Holland is beautiful!

[SwissTony]

45. A colleague and I used to go a restaurant called De Papegaai (The parakiet)

for lunch occasionally. it was next to the floating Chinese restaurant. We (and I individually) never had any trouble. I'm sure speaking Dutch would help if any situation arose. I also speak Glaswegian. Two people speaking Glaswegian sounds like they're having a fight even when they're talking about cooking. So, that was my second way out of difficult situations which never actually arose. Of course, there was a third solution which involved feet and fingers going into uncomfortable areas etc. My colleague said I didn't look the type to picked on.

I'm sorry your experience of Het Park wasn't fantastic. You should have come up to the 20th floor and we could have gone out for lunch.

[steve2470]

10. KIWI WITH LASERS FOR EYES! (no joke)

from: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/15/new-zealands-new-flag-15-quirky-contenders#img-1

[Duckhunter935]

19. That was my favorite

I loved when John did his bit on that!

[Johnyawl]

13. I can understand NZ wanting to get the Union Jack off their flag...

...but if I were a Kiwi my choice would be none of the above.

[SwissTony]

18. I'm an Aussie, not a Kiwi. But I would have preferred

the silver fern on black. All blacks flag.

You don't get much more Kiwi than that.

[Johnyawl]

21. I like the idea of keeping the Southern Cross...

...but what's with the ferns? I was not aware that ferns are so important to NZ.

On edit: Xithras provided some education on NZ and ferns up-thread. Now I know about NZ and ferns.

[SwissTony]

26. I suppose they could have kept the Southern Cross, but maybe

on a black background??

[Throd]

20. Top right = NBA logo. Other 3 are a garden flag that goes between the birdbath and the wind chimes.

[awoke_in_2003]

47. Awful close...

to the All Blacks logo.

[awoke_in_2003]

49. Sorry, here you go

[iandhr]

30. Isn't the flag on the upper left the flag of the All Blacks?

[SwissTony]

43. Not really.

Thr All Blacks flag is all black withthe silver (white) fern. so the bottom triangle is colour reversed.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. koru for the win. nt

[FairWinds]

38. Been to NZ a humber of times . .

great, great place & wonderful people.

Here is my modest suggestion . .

[George II]

40. If I had a choice, it would be upper right, but prefer the current flag.

[lunatica]

42. Upper left because it would look like an unfurling fern waving in the wind

And it has great balance between the white and black.

Too many flags have stars as far as I'm concerned. I love the US but I don't like the way our flag looks.

And the lower right is nice too, but I think there's too much black for it to look good waving in the wind

[Adrahil]

51. Wow. Those a terrible. Those look like airline logos. nt

[hrmjustin]

52. Get new choices.

[HassleCat]

53. All are ugly

That's the best they could do? The one in the upper-right is almost not-ugly. Almost.

[Warpy]

54. I like the bottom right's nod to Ta-Moko

in a very simplified swirl so characteristic of so many Maori tattoos.

The feather doesn't do much for me, but the simple black and white one is most effective.

[chillfactor]

55. upper left....

plain and simple....

[daleo]

57. Upper right

Bottom right reminds me too much of tsunami escape route signs, you see on Vancouver Island. Plus, keeping the reference to the southern cross seems appropriate to me. Canada went through this in the 1960s, when we adopted the Maple Leaf.

[romanic]

58. The mostly black flag with the white

reminds me too much of ISIS, sorry. :I

I like the 2nd flag (upper right) much more, vibrant but reflective of New Zealand and it's native/colonial history.

[rickford66]

59. I met my wife in NZ

Her and her Mother are British. Father and her siblings all Kiwis. This is the first I've heard about the change. I'll have to ask the family what they prefer.