Activists: Syrian warplanes carry out wave of airstrikes on IS-held city of Raqqa

[brooklynite]

Source: US News & World Report

BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian warplanes carried out a wave of airstrikes in the Islamic State-held city of Raqqa, activists said, in rare attacks that coincided with a visit by a U.N. envoy to Damascus on Thursday.

In the country's south, helicopters dropped barrel bombs that struck a busy market place, killing at least 17 people. An activist in the rebel-held Bosra Sham said the explosives were dropped as the market was packed with shoppers and people buying necessities for children who go back to school this week.

Speaking on condition of anonymity for security reasons, he said around 24 people were killed and many others wounded, with many of them in critical condition. The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights put the death toll at 17. Such discrepancies are common in the aftermath of large bombings.

Two Syria-based groups as well as the Observatory said earlier Thursday that warplanes carried out at least 12 airstrikes across the IS-held city of Raqqa in northern Syria. They reported casualties but had no specific figures. It was not immediately clear what was hit.

Read more: http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/17/activists-syrian-army-stages-airstrikes-on-is-held-raqqa

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Why do I think that neither Assad nor ISIS cares how many civilians were killed?

[TwilightGardener]

1. Assad hasn't really been fighting ISIS until now. Russia must be directing him to do it.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. Interesting. Now I see why Russia wants to talk about "deconfliction."

Deconfliction in this case means Assad and the Russians communicate with the American-led coalition about military plans (and vice versa), such as bombing runs on Raqqa. They don't want to accidentally shoot each other down.

Does the US care how many civilians it kills in Raqqa?

US will look into claim Friday air strike killed 52 civilians in ...
www.theguardian.com › World › Syria
The Guardian
May 2, 2015 - US will look into claim Friday air strike killed 52 civilians in Syria ... The group has built its own government in Syria's city of Raqqa, where it is ...

Syria conflict: Raqqa air strikes death toll rises - BBC News
www.bbc.com/.../world-middle-east-30...
British Broadcasting Corporation
Nov 26, 2014 - The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said at least 52 civilians were killed. One activist from Raqqa told the BBC the only hospital still ...

Syria conflict: Raqqa air strikes 'kill dozens' - BBC News
www.bbc.com/.../world-middle-east-30...
British Broadcasting Corporation

Nov 25, 2014 - At least 36 civilians have been killed in air strikes by Syrian government warplanes on the Islamic State-held northern city of Raqqa, activists ...
Civilian Deaths Mount as US Bombing of Syria Expands ...

www.commondreams.org/.../civilian-death...
Common Dreams NewsCenter
Sep 25, 2014 - Raqqa residents fear the air strikes will help IS reconcile with the Syrian ... and other militant factions, the civilian death toll is rapidly increasing.

[Sunlei]

3. helicopters dropped 'barrel bombs'. I had to look up, what are barrel bombs?

A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high explosives, with possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals, and then dropped from a helicopter or airplane.

[ellisonz]

4. We can stop this carnage with a no-fly-zone.

As much as I hate ISIS, the Assad regime has repeatedly demonstrated the maliciousness of their strikes toward civilians.

[Comrade Grumpy]

5. A no-fly zone where? Russian and Syrian jets might have something to say about that.

What is needed is an end to the civil war. It's past time for serious negotations.

[ellisonz]

8. Over Syria. The Russians won't intervene and the Syrian regime isn't an impossible target.

Negotiations with whom? If there were room for serious negotiations, they would have happened by now. They haven't.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. "the Russians won't intervene" - uh yes they will.

Pay attention. They just set up an airbase in Syria and declared their intentions to protect the Syrian government from collapse. But keep banging that war drum.

[ellisonz]

13. The war drum is already banging as this thread begins with.

The question is how to end the war. Last I looked there is still war in Ukraine and Putin is withstanding the economic measures reasonably well. The Russians are making a show for exactly this reason, Assad is their stake, do we propose to allow a Russian sphere of influence in Syria via Assad? Shall Putin go unchecked? Will he really want to to take on the combined force of NATO and the Arab League?

The goal here is peace by creating a stalemate and getting a ceasefire. The conditions for a stalemate do not exist, which is why there is no ceasefire. I'm not banging the war drum, I'm banging let's not sit by and watch while Syria tears itself apart. Without action, the flow of refugees will just continue. ISIS and Assad are not stopping on their own! Assad must be getting scared of them, which is why he is bombing them. Meanwhile, the moderate rebels in the south are getting butchered. Let's just hope Damascus holds for the real rebels!

[GreatGazoo]

17. Vice Narrator: "these are secular people who want democracy"

Militia members in the background "Allah Akbar! Allah Akbar!"

Truth is the first casualty of war.

[ellisonz]

18. Umm...

...do you understand what that phrase means to all Muslims?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir

These fighters are Muslim, but not with the extremist factions. They are Free Syrian Army, not Al Nusra Front or ISIS. In the north the FSA and allied groups have been decimated, they're still there in the south though and fighting Assad. If we don't help them, the extremists will just game further hold.

[Xithras]

6. Russia won't permit it.

It's already been brought up and shot down. A no fly zone without UN authorization would be illegal. Russia has already said that they'll use their superveto to reject any UN attempt to create one.

[ellisonz]

7. Time for NATO and the Arab League to shine.

Action by regional organizations without UN authorization has been taken before (Kosovo). That didn't turn out too well for Slobodan Milosevic or the Russian interest. This is why Putin thinks we are weak. We can bomb ISIS but we can't enforce a no-fly-zone over Syria.

CHAPTER VIII: REGIONAL ARRANGEMENTS

Article 52

Nothing in the present Charter precludes the existence of regional arrangements or agencies for dealing with such matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.

The Members of the United Nations entering into such arrangements or constituting such agencies shall make every effort to achieve pacific settlement of local disputes through such regional arrangements or by such regional agencies before referring them to the Security Council.

The Security Council shall encourage the development of pacific settlement of local disputes through such regional arrangements or by such regional agencies either on the initiative of the states concerned or by reference from the Security Council.

This Article in no way impairs the application of Articles 34 and 35.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter8.shtml

[Xithras]

9. If that were the case, Bush's actions would have been legal.

The authority of regional organizations is limited to the territories controlled by their member nations. Regional organizations do not have the authority to impose themselves on non-member nations, or to arbitrarily impose no fly zones or attack non member nations. To do so is a war crime.

Under international law, the borders of all UN member states are sacrosanct and the authority of the national government to control its own land and airspace is sacrosanct unless:

1. The nation is a member of another group (like NATO) and has specifically granted the body the right to enter and use its air and territories,.

2. The nation has committed an act of war and any entry into its territories are needed to defeat them and end that way.

3. The nation is a UN member state and the United Nations has approved the incursion (by signing the UN treaty, the nation granted the UN the authority to do so).

Unless the Syrian army attacks one of its neighbors, there's no way we can legally create a no fly zone without UN signoff.


On edit: Oh, and for what it's worth, the NATO Kosovo intervention IS widely regarded to have been illegal. Kofi Annan, the Secretary General of the UN at the time, took NATO to task for failing to get UN authorization first. To this day, there's disagreement within NATO nations about whether that attack violated not only International Law, but NATO's own charter.

[ellisonz]

14. International law isn't exactly upheld like domestic law.

Kosovo was successful in finishing off years of ethnic violence and open war.

Who would the crime be against? Assad the butcher?

This is where international law becomes murky and an encumbrance upon its own intentions.

[AngryAmish]

10. Explain to be how Syria is in the North Atlantic?

Our President, rightly, has decided this war is not ours to fight.

He believes that they have soiled their own nest, and thinks they should lie in it. And who am I to disagree with our President.

[ellisonz]

15. The President threatened just military action to force the removal of chemical weapons.

He negotiated the agreement with the Russians. There is a clear threat to NATO members from the Syrian conflict, it's not detached as the flow of refugees amply demonstrates. I am saying follow through on that threat to secure a peace agreement and don't forget the Arab League's responsibility here too.

Who has soiled their own nest? The common people of Syria?

[Warren Stupidity]

11. So only we get to kill people from the air?

What fucking sense does that make? Oh right, we're the good guys and our 'smart' bombs only kill bad guys. Nevermind.

[ellisonz]

16. War is hell.

I'm for the March to the Sea. You?