Doctor: Man accused of killing wife was delirious from pot

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Doctor: Man accused of killing wife was delirious from pot
Sadie Gurman, Associated Press
Updated 4:00 pm, Monday, September 21, 2015



DENVER (AP) — A Colorado man accused of killing his wife after eating marijuana-infused candy he bought at a legal pot shop was experiencing psychotic-like symptoms due to the drug, a doctor wrote in recently filed court documents.

Richard Kirk, 49, faces first-degree murder charges in the April 2014 shooting death of his wife, Kristine, who died while describing his erratic behavior on a 911 call. His attorneys have suggested that Kirk was so impaired by the candy that he may not have intended to kill her.

He changed his plea Friday to not guilty by reason of insanity, and the court documents give new details about his defense.

Kirk was intoxicated with THC, marijuana's psychoactive ingredient, which led to delirium, Dr. Andrew Monte, a defense witness, wrote in his report that was submitted to the court in August.

. . .

Just before she was shot, Kristine Kirk told dispatchers that her husband was acting more drunk than violent, crawling through a bedroom window and cutting his legs on broken glass. But prosecutors argue he had the wherewithal to remember the code to a gun safe and press the weapon to his wife's head. They have said the couple had been fighting over marital and financial problems.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Doctor-Man-accused-of-killing-wife-was-delirious-6519560.php

[ut oh]

1. Sure... blame it on the pot...

Not the fact that the dude may have been off his rocker already...

...and the marital problems....

[Lychee2]

41. The Devil made him do it. nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. Must be a Maureen Dowd fan. nt

[They_Live]

3. Did he have any drinks?

Doesn't sound very believable to me. Blame it on the candy...

[sofa king]

57. Funny thing about that....

Recent studies suggest that even one or two drinks significantly increases the amount of THC absorbed into the system. So yeah, I'd put good money on the guess that nine to fourteen beers were involved, too. But sure, blame the weed! It's got to be the weed!

[ion_theory]

4. Here we go....

Time for Christie and the other hardcore anti-marijuana repugs to jump on this as endemic of what weed does to society. Just like they did with that poor girl who was murdered by the illegal immigrant as proof we have a illegal migrant problem.

[cstanleytech]

10. Can anyone here say with full medical certainty that its impossible?

[roguevalley]

14. it can kill you if you have a bad heart. Two men with bad tickers

died in Germany from smoking. The autopsies said their tickers couldn't take it.

[ion_theory]

21. Do you have a source for this?

Not trying to challenge what you said, but curious about it. I've never heard of cardiac issues arising from marijuana, unless they had a bad trip and couldn't handle the mental stress. Or bad fertilizer or pesticides were used to grow.

[roguevalley]

22. here ya go. Surprised the slag out of everyone when this happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2568326/Smoking-cannabis-CAN-kill-German-researchers-identify-two-men-died-purely-result-using-drug.html

[ion_theory]

26. Okay thanks. I'll give it a read. n/t

[Lychee2]

42. Correlation in 2 cases without a causal explanation = hasty generalization

From the article:

Both of these people were men who had died after their hearts started beating either too fast or too slowly.

The researchers believe that this change in heart rhythm – called arrhythmia - was caused by cannabis.

The reason they came to this conclusion was that both had smoked the drug within a few hours of their death and neither had any history of heart problems....

While the German researchers now believe they have proved that cannabis can kill, it remains unclear how it can trigger heart problems.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2568326/Smoking-cannabis-CAN-kill-German-researchers-identify-two-men-died-purely-result-using-drug.html#ixzz3mQERtZLs

[ion_theory]

43. Agreed. Really can't take this as proof that marijuana caused their deaths. n/t

[bluedigger]

23. No, two doctors listed it as cause of death when they found thc in the results.

There was no reason to to do so. If you have a bad heart, you have a bad heart. Or maybe it was just those two times in Germany, and never anywhere else over all these decades now.

[ion_theory]

19. If you're asking..

if I can say with certainty that marijuana cannot cause this...than no I cannot. Honestly, I believe the doctor that THC can cause a negative psychoactive response of this degree, but that isn't my point. My point is that ppl will take this a proof marijuana is to dangerous to be freely consumed by the public. Just like they used a horrible incident in San Fran that we have a national illegal immigrant problem. Weed isn't a drug for everyone, but that doesn't mean no one should be able to enjoy it. Just like not all illegal immigrants are rapist and murderers.

[cstanleytech]

38. If its like alot of other drugs in this world then it stands to reason that

there will be some people who have an adverse sideffect to it, in this case if he wants to plead temporary insanity because of the drug then he should agree to be committed to a facility for 6 to 12 weeks during which time they may or may not slip some of drug at the same dosage to see if he actually does have a bad reaction.

[840high]

40. No I can't.

[Le Taz Hot]

46. Logic states that if there have not been

millions upon millions of death over the centuries from people ingesting cannabis, that, although not impossible, is highly improbable.

[cstanleytech]

48. The topic is not ODing unto death but rather the claims of diminished capacity in this case, such

claims would probably alot harder to document especially if its something that only rarely occurs.

[JoeyT]

50. IANAL, but would you be able to

argue an insanity plea for something you intentionally ingested? It's not like someone laced his cigarettes with PCP and he bit a cop. Even if we take his claims at face value, he took a psychoactive substance for the purpose of getting high, got higher than he bargained for, and killed someone.

[cstanleytech]

52. True but it might be the only legal plea he can enter depending on what the state law says. nt

[tabasco]

62. Right, challenge everyone to prove a negative. LOL

How about you provide some proof that pot causes psychotic, murderous episodes.

[tabasco]

63. I wish DU would get rid of contrarian troll dipshits.

Do you agree?

[billhicks76]

53. Who's Putting Him Up To This

Sorry dude. You can't blame the weed.

[ion_theory]

60. Private prisons, alcohol companies, police unions, pharmaceutical companies are the

main funders of the anti-marijuana lobbyists. To them there is more money to be made with weed being illegal than legal. Also Bill hicks is my other alias online...weird.

[billhicks76]

68. I Miss George Carlin

[yardwork]

5. Too many Twinkies?

[Bluenorthwest]

12. Dan White all over again....

nt

[callous taoboy]

6. He was also yelling for the piano player to play faster, faster while laughing maniacally.

Fucking hell.

[BlueJazz]

7. Maybe. just maybe, he has the same problem I have. When I smoke, I want to crush things like...

...Oreo's and corn chips which proves,,,..nah... bad example...

[IronLionZion]

8. Psychotic people exist

it's dishonest to blame it on the weed

[Warpy]

9. Anyone who has ever used pot in any form

knows this is bullshit only a DEA agent could possibly believe.

Now the booze he drank is a completely different matter.

[former9thward]

66. Right the evil drink.

Alcohol is consumed by scores of millions of people in this country everyday. There should be millions of killings everyday. Right? Funny how the pot defenders are always putting out silly prohibitionist talking points but they are horrified that mj is illegal in most places.

[Warpy]

67. No, but the actions of the drugs are very different

and there's a reason a lot of people call alcohol "asshole in a bottle," it disinhibits people and makes quite a few of them belligerent.

The only danger most stoners who aren't drunk pose is to a bag of chips.

The pharmacodynamics of both are well known and are not "silly prohibitionist talking points."

Hate to bust ya bubble, but there it is. Prohibition of either substance is stupid, wasteful of lives and resources, and ultimately futile. However, of the two, pot is much more benign overall in intoxication and upon body systems.

[fredamae]

11. Prove it with Science "doc" - Prove it! n/t

[Richard D]

13. !

[roguevalley]

15. that looks like dinosaur shit.

[Richard D]

17. Took it on my last trip

On the tardis.

[rurallib]

16. thus proving you can almost always find an "expert"

who will testify to damn near anything.

[Iggo]

18. oH GAWD. tHE TWINKIE DEFENSE?

[AngryAmish]

20. Marijuana is not harmless

Especially consumables that pack s ton of thc.

However if I chug a bottle of gin and kill someone that does not mean booze should be illegal. Just like pot.

[bluedigger]

24. Intoxication is no defense.

They can jazz it up into delirium all they want but I don't see a Colorado jury buying it. In fact, I'd guess it was premeditated from the get-go.

[blackspade]

25. What a crock of shit.

'Reefer madness' as a defense? Bullshit.

[snort]

27. But he looks like such a nice man.

Lets see want to kill wife? check. What to use for a defense (cuz im smart)? I know buy some cannabis and then claim crazy. Right.

[Ed Suspicious]

28. Glassy eyed psycho. Not from the pot, I'm sure. Just from being a psycho.

[They_Live]

32. It's not for everyone.

Especially psychotics. Also...some of these highly cultivated strains are much stronger than the regular brand.

[nichomachus]

29. Be very wary of "researchers" who come out with sutff like this

I used to deal with the tobacco industry and with anti-smoking groups. You have no idea how many "researchers" are for sale -- and the tobacco industry and liquor industry have the deep pockets to buy them.

The problem is bad in the US and it's even worse in Europe, where "publish or perish" is particularly brutal.

Beware of any research that shows the tobacco industry and the liquor industry in a good light and their competition in a bad light.

[Xithras]

30. Possible, but irrelevant

People have bad trips. It happens. Some people react poorly to it. Others ingest too much and the psychoactive elements can cause hallucinations. It's entirely possible for someone to get wasted and kill someone. I once got punched in the face by a stoned roommate who thought I'd look funny with a flatter nose. The notion that pot is peaceful and all potheads are nonviolent is silly and has no basis in reality. Assholes are going to do asshole things, whether they're drunk, stoned or sober.

Pot isn't a defense against criminal acts. Some people get drunk and react poorly. It happens. Some people drink too much and the effects of alcohol can cause the persons perceptions of reality to change. Others drink too much and get behind the wheel of a car. Others drink too much and rape, rob, or assault people.

Our justice system doesn't allow those people to use alcohol as an excuse, and it shouldn't allow people to use pot as an excuse. YOU are responsible for your behavior when you're drunk or stoned. If you do something stupid or illegal, YOU must face the consequences for doing so. Eating pot brownies is no different than drinking vodka or beer. You need to know your limits, you need to plan ahead and make sure you'll be taken care of while you're stoned or drunk, and you need to be responsible for yourself. If you fail to do that and commit a crime, you need to be punished for it.

[logosoco]

31. It is my belief that there is no drug that can put something

in a person that is not there already. I think this guy already had intent to shoot his wife before this. The pot just lowered his inhibitions. He also had easy access to a weapon, and that's a bad thing even for non-intoxicated people.

Also, the number of occasions where we hear about people doing this while using cannabis is still pretty rare. People still have been using it, even being illegal. It's not like suddenly those numbers are going to change.

[They_Live]

33. agreed.

And what else was in his system?

[valerief]

34. How convenient for him. nt

[underpants]

35. Pot doesn't kill people....

You know the rest

[rug]

37. It's a real thing.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/286661-clinical

But I would check the candy first. I bet it was this.

[asiliveandbreathe]

39. So - with this reasoning shouldn't we be

looking at gun violence in the same way...(no - I do not believe it was the pot) - take away the guns..from the already insane...

[KT2000]

44. Reefer Madness!!!

BS

[greenman3610]

45. there is this -

"But prosecutors argue he had the wherewithal to remember the code to a gun safe and press the weapon to his wife's head"

that sounds like a fairly functional dude.
Nobody that has had experience with marijuana would find this credible. this is designed to play to
a tea party jury.

[Politicub]

47. Pot may have exacerbated his existing propensity for psychosis

or maybe not. Hard to say, but it's doubtful that pot caused a net new issue for this man.

[cstanleytech]

49. #38 I posted a possible way to find out if the claim is bogus or not. nt

[silvershadow]

51. With no evidence, I'm still calling BS. Sounds more like a premeditated murder defense to me.

But I don't know anything about the matter, or pot candy, or anything else. The inner Joe Kenda in me says it doesn't really add up.

[jberryhill]

54. No, but his lawyer might be

[jmowreader]

55. Think back to when pot became legal in Colorado

Maureen Dowd bought a marijuana-infused candy bar, ate the whole thing in one sitting, and wound up seeing snakes.

But let's see...delirious enough you don't know whether you're shooting your wife, but sober enough to get your gun safe open? Sorry Dick, but I'm calling bullshit on this one.

[markpkessinger]

65. Yes, she did. . . . I posted a comment to that piece at the time.

Here is the text of my comment:

Mark Kessinger

Two points:

(1) If you are going to sample an intoxicating substance of any kind, legal or illegal, that you are inexperienced in using or that is in a form with which you do not have experience, do your homework first. Research things like how much to ingest/take, what to expect, etc. And preferrably, if you are going to do it, do it in a safe, familiar place with someone who has experience with it. Doing it alone in a strange hotel room is just . . . need I say it?

(2) To the makers and marketers of these products: you really should have anticipated that if something was suddenly made legal that is illegal in most of the rest of the country, it stands to reason you would have a significant number of inexperienced users interested in 'sampling the goodies.' Therefore, with products such as these, a good rule of thumb is to include usage directions that will account for the stupidest thing a new user could possibly do: like trying it herself, in a strange hotel room, alone.

[Helen Borg]

56. Pot? How much do you need to smoke

Before you feel delirious? Never heard of it...

[Javaman]

58. there's certainly more to this story. me things that pot wasn't the only thing in his system...

but to take this a step further.

why not make the same claim about people who are drunk and kill their wife or husbands?

that's more accurate and far more common but alas, the media enjoys selective reporting.

drunks killing people (which happens a hell of a lot more) just don't make the headlines.

reefer madness is to blame, yeah, that's it, reefer madness.

[AtomicKitten]

59. On weed: Killing a cheeseburger, yes. Killing his wife, no.

[markpkessinger]

64. +1. Some years back . . .

. . . I happened to catch an episode of "Divorce Court," with Judge Lynn Toler. There was a couple before her, each of whom seemed to have an alcohol problem, and whenever the two of them drank, they tended to get into physical altercations with each other. Judge Toler went off on a rant about how alcohol, unlike pot, has an effect on many people that makes them want to "get up in each other's faces," to use the Judge's words. And then, forgetting herself for just a moment, added, "At least with pot, when people smoke a joint, all they want to do is sit down!"

[tabasco]

61. This is %!#$!?! 2015 and we're still hearing this shit???