Dutch Safety Board: MH17 Was Brought Down By Russian-Made Missile

[geek tragedy]

Source: Huffington Post (Reuters)

AMSTERDAM, Oct 12 (Reuters) - The Dutch Safety Board, issuing long-awaited findings on Tuesday of its investigation into the crash of a Malaysian passenger plane over eastern Ukraine, is expected to say it was downed by a Russian-made Buk missile but not say who was responsible for firing it.



MH17 was shot down over territory held by pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing all 298 people aboard, most of them Dutch citizens.



Experts and Western governments believe rebels shot down the aircraft, possibly mistaking it for a Ukrainian military plane. Moscow has offered alternative theories, including that it might have been shot down by a Ukrainian fighter, or by Ukrainian forces.

...



It is widely expected that the investigation will say the plane was brought down by a Russian-made Buk missile, although under rules governing international flight crash investigations, the board does not have the authority to apportion blame.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dutch-safety-board-mh17-was-brought-down-by-russian-made-missile_561be4dfe4b0dbb8000f478b

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Nothing that every rational person didn't already suspect or presume to be true, but a formal investigation does carry a lot more weight.

[brooklynite]

1. Sorry, but if RT isn't reporting it, you can't expect DU to to believe it...

[geek tragedy]

5. I think they have a flow chart for this.

Last edited Wed Oct 14, 2015, 12:24 PM - Edit history (3)

Step 1: What shot down MH17?

A: Say it was Ukrainian plane
B: When (A) is proven to be horse poop, go to step 2

Step 2: Who shot down MH17?

A: It was Ukrainians trying to assassinate glorious leader Vladimir Putin
B: When (A) is shown to be horse poop, blame incident on Ukrainian plane
C: When people remind you that (B) was already shown to be horse poop, blame it on Ukrainian military
D: When people point out that the only planes in the sky were Ukraine's, and that rebels bragged about shooting plane down:
(i) decadent Western media
(ii) false flag
(iii) NATO wants to overthrow glorious leader Vladimir Putin
(iv) Ukrainians are Nazis!
(v) demand that US release satellite photos
(vi) Consult latest Robert Parry column
(vii) Go to step 3

Step 3

A: It was an accident, not a war crime, if glorious self-defense forces shot plane down
B: It is Ukrainian Nazi air traffic controller to blame, if glorious self-defense forces shot plane down
C: nitpick at details of investigative reports in a pathetic attempt to claim the entire report is unreliable ("They misspelled the name of the regional commander of glorious defense forces, this is clearly a fraud!&quot
D: rt.com

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. LOL nt

[Duckhunter935]

15. Love it, lol

[tammywammy]

17. ....

[GGJohn]

37. LOL.

Now this is comedy gold.
Well done.

[Duckhunter935]

2. There are a couple

That will never will believe

[reorg]

7. As opposed to you

who was a true believer from day one.

[geek tragedy]

8. one is not a 'true believer' when they observe the obvious

similarly, people who peddle nonsense are not "skeptics" they are just cranks

[reorg]

21. well, yeah, I remember when I observed the obvious

namely that the Ukrainian intelligence service was using false proof of a 'BUK' missile launcher, there were still a number of 'cranks' peddling nonsense.

[snooper2]

48. So why don't you go ahead and tell us what happened!

Oh, and has Putin reorged the office in Moscow yet? That was supposed to be done MONTHS ago!

[Duckhunter935]

12. Just understand the facts

[geek tragedy]

13. their flowchart can defeat any decadent western imperialist 'facts'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1231657

[Duckhunter935]

16. So true!!

[reorg]

19. if that were actually the case

'belief' would not figure into it. Just pointing out what you said ... 'they will never believe'.

Exactly. I'm not going to buy into any claim whatsoever if US intelligence services want me to believe it, unless it is proven without the tiniest shred of doubt.

[Duckhunter935]

23. Yes we know

Unless Putin and RT put it out, little things like facts will not matter. It will be interesting if the find buk missile warhead fragments in the bodies and missile parts and paint on the aircraft parts. I guess the Ukrainian SU 25 could have carried a buk TEL.

[geek tragedy]

25. the talking points will be that the US/NATO/Dutch government planted

the decisive evidence.

Or, failing that, stating that the glorious defense forces were justified in shooting the plane down, and that everything is the fault of evil Ukrainian Nazi air traffic controllers.

Putin's flunkies are goddamn cartoons.

[reorg]

28. wouldn't be the first time, unfortunately n/t

[geek tragedy]

32. lol, so predictable we can make your arguments for you nt

[Duckhunter935]

29. Yep

[geek tragedy]

24. it is very hard to tell what you actually believe--all that you write is propaganda

that originated from the Russian government. So we cannot tell if you actually believe whatever Vladimir Putin tells you to believe, or whether you're willing to push what you know to be dishonest nonsense because you want to advance Team Putin's goals.

[GGJohn]

39. Yet you believe every thing Putin, RT, the "rebels" put out.

Hmmmm, very interesting.

[GGJohn]

38. Oh look, there you are.

Wondered how long it would take you to show up.

[hobbit709]

3. Waiting for the usual crowd to show up and blame the U.S.

[uawchild]

4. "... but not say who was responsible for firing it."

Since both Russia and the Ukraine have both shot down civilian airliners in the past murdering hundreds of innocents each time, I suppose its possible that either side could have done it since they both have those soviet designed BUK missile systems.

Personally, I think the Russians supplied the BUK systems to the "rebels" and those asses blew the civilian plane up by mistake. They should at least own up to this, not that some weak half-assed apology makes it all better. Again, I feel that all countries that have shot down civilian airliners should be tried in the International Criminal Court for murder. Russia, Ukraine, even our country have all shot down civilian aircraft in the past and paid no significant penalty.

[reorg]

10. 'even' our country?

What do you mean, 'even"?

[uawchild]

27. i was shocked

by the number of my friends that thought only the Russians have shot down a civilian airliner.

[reorg]

30. I know, we don't hear much about it n/t

[EX500rider]

20. What civilian planes did the Ukrainians shoot down and "kill hundreds"?

[uawchild]

33. you don't think it happened?

I can understand, its shocking to think this happens repeatedly and by different countries. It's even more shocking when we do it or our allies. Here is some info I found, I am sure there is more out there if you just google it...

It happened about 14 years ago, but I feel there is no statue of limitation on murder, which I consider militaries shooting down civilian airliners to be:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html

As you have read, "only" 78 passengers and crew were killed in THIS incident, but HUNDREDS have been killed by militaries shooting down civilian aircraft in multiple incidents, by multiple countries.

Here is a Wikipedia link for this incident. Sadly, many of those killed were Israelis visiting their relatives in Russia, I can imagine what the conspiracy theorists made out of that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Please read a previous post of mind where I hold Russia, Ukraine and, yes, the US responsible for their past "accidents". And when I scare quotes "accidents", I don't mean that these countries intentionally said "lets go kill civilians", I mean that they are just totally indifferent to the safety of nearby civilians that the level of neglect is criminal, in my opinion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7252333

[reorg]

9. Misleading headline

Even the Huffington Post and Reuters only said that the Dutch Safety Board 'is widely expected' to say, not that they actually made the claim already that a 'Russian-made' missile (did anyone ever claim it wasn't 'Russian-made'?) was the cause of the crash.

Which means, I suppose, that everyone who 'expects' they're going to 'say' it tomorrow will be devastated if the Dutch Safety Board won't be able to offer clear and indisputable proof of that claim.

[geek tragedy]

11. folks such as yourself were claiming a Ukrainian plane shot it down

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=930634

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=930911

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1150712

so, we're just going to laugh at whatever nonsense you excrete on this subject with comments like "did anyone claim it wasn't Russian-made"--since you denied that the Buk was even involved.

[Duckhunter935]

14. I know

[reorg]

18. no, I quoted experts who said that

and if they are correct, the missile was still 'Russian-made', my dear.

[geek tragedy]

22. And I am directly quoting you.

I don't think they will ever release the satellite photos





because they most likely prove that no ground to air missile system was used by the self defense forces in Eastern Ukraine.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=930634

That's the kind of dishonest nonsense you've been peddling on behalf of the fascist Russian state and its proxies.

Only shameless shills for Vladimir Putin even suggested a Ukrainian plane shot MH17 down.

[reorg]

26. so where can I see these satellite photos

Were they released or was I correct? Did I miss something or did I assume correctly when I said

'I don't think they will ever release the satellite photos', hm?

[geek tragedy]

31. Step 2(D)(v)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1231657

[reorg]

34. I know you like to hear yourself talking

/read yourself rather than engage in an intelligent exchange. It's not like you started with this yesterday.

I was always careful not to engage in baseless speculation in this case myself, I'm not an expert in any way - just like you.

I cited experts.

I was assuming that these satellite photos the Americans claim to have were never going to be published.

I guess I was right.

[geek tragedy]

35. Lol.

I was always careful not to engage in baseless speculation in this case myself

vs

I don't think they will ever release the satellite photos because they most likely prove that no ground to air missile system was used by the self defense forces in Eastern Ukraine.

This would be like saying Vladimir Putin is not going to resign tomorrow because he wants to be able to ride bears.

Then saying two days later, "I guess I was right."

[GGJohn]

40. OMFG!!!!

You said this:

I was always careful not to engage in baseless speculation in this case myself, I'm not an expert in any way - just like you.

Yet you've been all over these threads speculating that it was the Ukrainian Govt that shot down that airliner.

Pure comedy gold.

[GGJohn]

41. Very interesting,

I notice that you didn't deny being a shill for Comrade Putin.

[Blue_Tires]

45. READ the report

http://cdn.onderzoeksraad.nl/documents/report-mh17-crash-en.pdf

[Blue_Tires]

43. excellent find

[joshcryer]

36. BUK missile brought down flight MH17: Dutch probe

http://news.yahoo.com/inquiry-finds-mh17-plane-shot-down-buk-missile-073808003.html

"Flight MH17 crashed as a result of the detonation of a warhead outside the airplane against the left-hand side of the cockpit..."

[Blue_Tires]

44. read it and weep:

http://cdn.onderzoeksraad.nl/documents/report-mh17-crash-en.pdf

[NuclearDem]

42. Anyone with any common sense knew this already.

[Blue_Tires]

46. It's still important to officially prove beyond all doubt

that a surface-to-air missile is responsible for the tragedy...

With the Dutch Safety Board's work done, this is now officially in the hands of criminal investigators to determine just who fired it

[NuclearDem]

51. The evidence seems to suggest it was accidental.

Just a bunch of rebels trying to use something they weren't trained on. If Russia handed them the missiles or the system without bothering to make sure they knew what they were doing, they'd be liable for recklessness, but it does genuinely seem like an accident.

[Blue_Tires]

54. Well, we'd cut to the chase faster

if Russia stopped stonewalling and simply revealed all they know... Because I'm betting the criminal investigators will only find dead ends, with the Buk completely dismantled and re-stocked in a spare parts garage, and the "rebels" manning it that day shot and buried in the middle of nowhere...

[Blue_Tires]

47. Now that this part is officially settled

I want my fucking apology and retraction from Robert Parry, who like I said at the time was just regurgitating Moscow talking points behind the cover of fictional "unnamed sources"

[geek tragedy]

49. Robert Parry is no more honest than his patrons in Moscow.

Expect some kind of obfuscation from that lying hack along the lines of the flow chart I posted upthread.

[NuclearDem]

50. You won't get one.

He'll write this off as imperialist NATO propaganda just like the 21st century Walter Duranty that he is.

[PoliticAverse]

52. <20 minute video documentary on the incident and the investigation...

[geek tragedy]

53. they were incredibly thorough. thanks for the video. nt