Islamic State militant 'executes own mother' in Raqqa

[oberliner]

Source: BBC

An Islamic State militant carried out a public "execution" of his mother because she asked him to leave the group, activists say.

Ali Saqr, 21, killed his mother, Lena al-Qasem, 45, outside the post office in Raqqa, Syria, eyewitnesses said.

Raqqa has served as IS' de facto capital since the group captured the city in August 2013.

IS does not tolerate any dissent and imposes brutal punishments, often carried out in public.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35260475

---

Note: The alleged crime was "apostasy".

[leftynyc]

1. Animals

WTF was her crime? Wanting him to leave a death cult? isis needs to be exterminated like roaches. These are not people who can be reasoned with and deserve no place in civilized society.

[oberliner]

8. Shot his own mother in the head in front of hundreds of people

Absolutely insane.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

40. As if he doesn't already - he's going to have some bigtime mental problems.

[trillion]

79. I'll go with the "already"

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

85. For sure!

But think about if he ever snaps out of it and realizes what he's done. That would be a hell of a punishment in itself.

[Herman4747]

11. Truly "Worst than animals"

No animal would do such a thing.
Religion truly has the capacity to warp the mind.

[FrodosPet]

34. We need to wait for the philosophy killer's proclamations about the truth...

...before we rush to judgement about this.

[Coventina]

35. LOL!!

Well played!!

[leftynyc]

49. Nicely done

That poster is working my last nerve with his head in the sand bullshit.

[trillion]

80. I love your signature pics

[FrodosPet]

113. Thank you

I admit, it took me a bit. The word "socialist" was pretty scary. To a degree, it still is, with it's association with authoritarian economics policies of countries like Cuba and Venezuela.

But as I learned more about who he is, and what he stands for, I became more impressed with him. I will vote for Sec Clinton if she is nominated, but I really think Sen Sanders is the most compassionate and intelligent person in the race.

[ButterflyBlood]

96. No animals don't behave that way

Animals care for their families. I've never heard of an animal likely to kill their mother.

[Coventina]

2. Dear God in Heaven!!

Please save me from your followers!!

[ancianita]

3. Punishment for apostasy is part of the foundation of this theocratic movement.

Fear reigns by design, with the intent to have all residents submit to theocratic caliphate authority, the claim being that only then will there be peace.

[Elmergantry]

4. Well Islam does mean

"submission"

[ancianita]

5. Yep. It doesn't matter how that submission happens, either, whether it's by threat, punishment

sharia, controlling the female half of the population or the reward of lots of virgins.

Then, when Islam reigns, its meaning of "peace" will be established. That's, of course, the "peace" of male spiritual -- and every other kind of -- rule.

[Elmergantry]

6. Careful

Your close to getting a post censored! Col Jessep isn't here to help you

[ancianita]

82. I've no idea who that is. I usually don't need help when free speeching about ISIS.

[MariaThinks]

16. true

[leftynyc]

28. My heart breaks for the women

there. They really don't stand a chance with these vermin in control of their lives.

[demosincebirth]

67. Well said! May upset many, who have blinders on, but it's the truth.

[trillion]

81. We could say the same about the GOP. I mean the Fundys.

[Yupster]

102. We could, but we'd look pretty foolish

wouldn't we?

[trillion]

104. No, we wouldn't. Why just attack Islam for something the Christian Fundies do too?

[Yupster]

106. Yup

foolish.

[trillion]

107. You do realize your stance is racist, right?

[snooper2]

111. percentages, tell us where millions and millions of christian fundies live who want a theocracy...

We'll wait for your response LOL

[EX500rider]

13. Fairly popular in Muslim countries also..

Today, apostasy is a crime in 23 out 49 Muslim majority countries; in many other Muslim nations such as Indonesia and Morocco, apostasy is indirectly covered by other laws.It is subject in some countries, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, to the death penalty, although executions for apostasy are rare. In a 2013 report based on an international survey of religious attitudes, more than 50% of the Muslim population in 6 Islamic countries supported the death penalty for any Muslim who leaves Islam (apostasy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Islam

[Oneironaut]

7. All religion, including Islam, is inherently evil.

It doesn't matter if members do good things, or claim that people who do things like this "aren't real Muslims." Islam, and every other organized religion out there cannot be reasoned with. They all want to force you into their way of life, and will do anything to accomplish their goals.

[oberliner]

9. Only one religion, Islam, calls for the death penalty for apostasy

For what that is worth.

[MariaThinks]

17. At least some people are willing to tell the truth

[iandhr]

33. +1

[840high]

36. ....x10+

[killbotfactory]

41. So does christianity and judiasm

“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[a] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A6-11&version=ESV

[oberliner]

43. No major Christian denomination calls for legal sanctions against those who apostasize

Islam needs to go though a similar reformation.

[killbotfactory]

44. Fundamentalists would like that power

Thankfully they won't get it

[oberliner]

45. No they wouldn't

Fundamentalist Christians don't support killing apostates. Shunning or excommunicating them is about as far as they go.

Whereas killing apostates is a pretty mainstream view in Islam.

[jmowreader]

53. Fundamentalist Christians don't support it because we have a secular government

2 Chronicles 15.12-13 says:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

[oberliner]

57. This is not true

Can you point me to some fundamentalist Christian leaders who are calling for apostates to be put to death?

[killbotfactory]

63. here you go

http://aattp.org/christian-pastor-calls-for-atheists-and-gays-to-be-put-to-death/

[oberliner]

65. Nothing about apostasy at that link

Also this person isn't a fundamentalist Christian leader.

[killbotfactory]

69. He may not be a leader, but he's the father of a presidential candidate

http://www.newslo.com/ted-cruzs-father-suggests-placing-atheists-in-camps/

It’s a free country,” he said. “If these people need to practice their holy rites of atheism, they can do so, as long as they are in clearly-marked encampments far away from the rest of us.”

“While they’re in their Heathen Zones, they’re free to dance naked around the fire, brand the mark of the Devil on their flesh or whatever else they want to do,” he added. “Of course, if they step one foot outside the electrified fence we shoot them between the eyes. Two or three times, just to be sure.[-/b]”

[oberliner]

70. He is definitely a disturbing individual (as is Ted Cruz)

And I certainly don't mean to suggest that fundamentalist Christians don't have their own insane rules.

I am just saying that strict punishment for apostasy seems to be a particularly important element of Islam in a way that it isn't for other religions currently.

In the way that, say, murdering abortion doctors, is something that seems to feature prominently among fundamentalist Christians but not Muslims.

[ancianita]

84. His beliefs are not similarly the law of Christian countries -- none of which are called

"The Christian Republic of X." Apostasy in Islam isn't just loosey-goosey random treatment. It's up to the ummah how to treat apostates, and short of the death penalty that treatment's still not good.

[jmowreader]

73. Not in the US, no

During the ethnic cleansing operations in the Balkans, the Serbs were marking villages for destruction based on the religious beliefs of the townspeople.

Let's put it another way: IF IT WAS LEGAL for American Christians to kill American non-Christians, would killing happen? And the answer is yes, it would.

[oberliner]

77. I do take your point

And I know that there are Christians who would like to see non-Christians killed in the US.

However, I am talking specifically about apostasy which seems to be a much bigger issue in Islam than in other religions.

[Humanist_Activist]

55. Having debated Catholics who would like nothing better than to live in a Catholic...

Confessional State(Its not a theocracy, theyswear), they would like to at least imprison apostates. I know, I asked because I am such an apostate. According to Catholic rules, once baptized, you are always a Catholic.

What's interesting is the way they hedge here, and this is due to secular influence for sure, where they don't want to go into detail because it makes them look bad even though they believe they are right.

Not saying its mainstream, and Islam needs a huge injection of secular inoculation in order to coexist with the western world peaceably in the future.

[oberliner]

59. Have Catholic apostates been imprisoned for that reason anywhere over the last 50 years?

I am genuinely curious if this has occurred or is occurring.

[Humanist_Activist]

62. No, because outside of Vatican City, there are no Catholic Confessional States in existence...

that's part of the problem with Islam, the existence of Islamic states.

[oberliner]

66. Have any recent popes made such a declaration?

Presumably they would have they authority to do so, wouldn't they?

[Humanist_Activist]

71. They only have temporal authority within Vatican City, and as far as I'm aware of no...

though they did change the rules so that I can't, for example, take myself off the baptismal roles and am still counted as a Catholic, according to Church records.

[oberliner]

72. Gotcha

Very interesting - thanks for the info.

[killbotfactory]

60. Yes, I grew up in a religion where they would shun anyone who leaves

Meaning if you left you were cut off from your friends and family. So humane. If it wasn't against the law, you can bet your ass they'd murder apostates.

[FrodosPet]

76. So it is OK then?

We need to be more tolerant of religious differences by decriminalizing apostate execution?

I am not sure of the point you are trying to make.

[leftynyc]

50. Are you really going to claim

there is no difference between words written in a book centuries ago by who the fuck knows who and LAWS ON THE BOOKS TODAY? Stop embarrassing yourself.

[killbotfactory]

56. People still worship that ancient book

Anyone who takes it literally tries to impose it's morality and laws upon us whenever they can. Why do you think gay marriage has been such a hard sell?

[leftynyc]

58. So what?

Let them worship whatever sky fairy they want. We're talking about laws - ON THE BOOKS TODAY - that call for punishment, including execution - for leaving Islam. When a Christian or Jewish country has those laws on the books, then you'll have an argument. Until then, you're just trying to excuse this behavior by deflecting. Just stop it.

[killbotfactory]

61. I am in no way excusing this behavior. ridiculous. nt

[leftynyc]

64. Then why do you want

to pretend this is happening in other countries that are not under sharia law? Why the deflection?

[killbotfactory]

74. Look, if you take the bible and tell people it's the word of God

It should not come as a shock that people would take the word of God literally and enforce it as taught in the Abrahamic faiths. This isn't something that is unique to Islam.

[leftynyc]

75. Stop with the deflection bullshit

You're talking about a holy book that some people read and so fucking what. I'm talking about LAWS ON THE BOOKS TODAY. I'm shouting because you continue to ignore the difference and I'm sick of it. There are no Christian or Jewish countries that have laws against leaving a religion. NONE. Only Islamic countries. An uncomfortable truth for you but the truth nonetheless. So yes, it IS unique to Islam as NO OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE THOSE LAWS ON THE BOOKS. Is that clear enough for you?

[killbotfactory]

93. Do you realize the fundamentalist islamic states that exist today were cultivated by the west?

All the secular Arab nationalist states tended to align themselves with the Soviet Union. The US supported the Saudi's and their extremist form of Islam and their "freedom fighters" and others like them to check soviet influence in the region.

It's for the same reason we supported dictators in South America, but I doubt you look to South America and it's history and think "Golly, those Catholics just love their strongman dictators!"

[leftynyc]

108. So what?

And what does that have to do with my point? This discussion was about which countries have laws against blasphemy and the other poster was trying to argue that merely HAVING a holy book was the exact same as having laws on the books of governments. It isn't.

[ancianita]

92. Here's the key difference between religions' fundamentalisms: translation. Literal translation is

meaningless in Christianity because the Old and New Testaments have at least ten or more modern translations by which people can differ -- which were taken from the Latin, which was taken from the Greek which was taken from the Aramaic, etc. You can get the Bible in your language, which might be a translation of the King James, or New International, etc.

In Islam, translation was forbidden by The Prophet. Only one/two officially authorized translations exist in the West today. If you're Muslim, you study the Qu'ran in Arabaic, period. Period. That language was the literal word of Allah, and no one may tamper with the unchangeable word of Allah. That is how it must be received, according to Islam and The Prophet. Thus, madrassas.

Literal word of Allah is waaay more consistent across continents than is the literal word of God.

Therein, according to reps from the Center for Islamic Studies, University of Chicago, lies the major difference about the bases of fundamentalism across these faiths.

[christx30]

99. If you go to Israel, and you have

a BLT or a shrimp cocktail, no one gives a crap. You go to Saudi Arabia and have a whiskey and you could get killed from lashes. That's the difference.

[killbotfactory]

100. Saudi Arabia uses their brand Islam to protect and expand their political power in the region

In a similar way other authoritarian states have operated throughout history.

[christx30]

101. But the point is that it's not other religions that

own entire countries and pass laws or have religious police that enforce provisions of the faith, or make shit up that needs to be banned.
Even if you're on a plane heading out of Iran, you can't have a drink until you cross out of Iranian airspace. Pretty crazy.


http://listverse.com/2012/11/12/top-10-everyday-things-banned-in-saudi-arabia/
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/05/top-10-everyday-things-banned-in-iran-2661566.html

[killbotfactory]

105. Not recently.

It's just important to remember the rise of the current political Islam was born out of the cold war, where our country actively colluded with extremists like Saudi Arabia to fight or subvert any Islamic Arab or Persian government that wanted to secularize, because they more or less sided with the USSR, or were hostile to Israel, or wanted to nationalize their natural resources (oil).

Just look at photos from Afghanistan in the 1970's. The women there didn't look any different from those in the west. Then we started supporting the "freedom fighters" (along with our allies in the gulf states). And what happened after we "won" that proxy war?

[LeftishBrit]

88. Not quite true; only (some) Muslim countries impose it at state level...

but there is a passage in Deuteronomy calling for the death penalty by stoning for apostates; and while I don't think Christian theocrats have tended to differentiate between apostates and other heretics, the death penalty for heresy was common in Christian states in the past.

The difference is that some Muslim countries are still theocracies, while Christian countries have thankfully moved on from this, whatever some groups might wish.

ISIS is of course not a state, but considers itself as one.

[Coventina]

10. Some religions don't proselytize.

Zoroastrianism, for one, Shinto for another.
Wicca welcomes converts, but does not proselytize either, although one could argue it isn't an organized religion.

I would say that proselytizing religions are much more susceptible to abuse than non-proselytizing religions.
I wouldn't go so far to say that any are free of abuses, however.

[leftynyc]

23. Jews don't proselytize either

It's against the religion. Converts must come and ask (3 times if memory serves).

[JudyM]

29. ... And they have to study pretty rigorously.

I know several people who've converted to Judaism and it's difficult... They really had to be serious about it.

[leftynyc]

30. You gotta really want

to part of the tribe. That's as it should be (imo).

[LeftishBrit]

89. True; and non-theist ideologies can also be abused if they become props for authoritarian rulers

E.g. Fascism; Stalinism; the current system in North Korea; etc.

But religion can make it even more possible to treat your leaders as gods, or representatives of gods, in whose name you can commit all sorts of atrocities.

Even non-proselytizing religions can be corrupted in this way. E.g. you mention Shintoism, which was certainly misused in the service of the state apparatus in Imperial Japan.

[Coventina]

90. Totally agree, and was why I made sure to mention that any religion can be abusive.

It just happens to be my personal opinion that some are more abusive than others.

[Art_from_Ark]

109. Shintoism was misued in Imperial Japan

But that was also a time when Japanese were taught to believe that the Emperor was a deity. Those days are long gone. Shintoism today is mostly a religion for trying to improve individual lives. Go to a Shinto shrine, put 10 yen in the collection box in front of the shrine, ring a bell, and follow a ritual for praying for good things in your life. After that, you might be able to go to the sales window and buy a lucky charm for ridding yourself of bad luck, or finding a good mate, or passing an entrance exam, or for traveling safely.

[JudyM]

14. Fair to say that religious *extremists* of any religion are flirting with evil. Nt

[MariaThinks]

18. No it isn't

[ck4829]

19. So there are some 'good' religious extremists?

[leftynyc]

24. That really depends on how you

define extremists. I learned a very powerful lesson recently on a trip to Israel. We were visiting a childhood friend of my brother in law who became very religious after law school, married and moved to Israel where he had 9 children while still practicing law. He and his wife were VERY religious but completely non-judgemental and not assholes about religion at all. We had a great dinner and after dinner conversation - took on many controversial topics (gay marriage for instance where the lawyer friend admitted it was unconstitutional to ban it under US law). I learned there are those who are quite seriously religious but that didn't automatically make them judgmental assholes. I went into that evening not believing I would see that.

[LanternWaste]

38. No more and no less than there are some 'good' political extremists

No more and no less than there are some 'good' political extremists.

[MariaThinks]

52. the ones who kill others are worse than the ones that don't talk to you because of their belief

[JudyM]

78. You disagreed above that religious extremists in general are flirting with evil.

Without further explanation. So what you mean, I take it from your comment here, is that the ones who just keep to themselves without ranting or taking action are not flirting with evil? I agree with that. But when I think "extremist" I assume some kind of activism.

[Yupster]

103. If you're an extreme

Janist, you're a - okay with me.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

51. There is no such thing as evil. Just humans.

[Elmergantry]

15. I am only aware of one religion that in modern times

is willing to literally "force" one into their belief system.

And it aint Christianity

[kentauros]

20. Correction: -Humans- are inherently evil.

All that ancient cultural baggage they bring with them is what corrupts religion; and politics. And the powerful use both as tools to control us, especially so that we don't question beyond the tool and what it's doing to us.

As the old adage goes, "Power corrupts..."

[jonno99]

32. Agreed. nt

[jonno99]

31. -1000 All Religion? What a pant-load. Good job throwing the baby out with the bathwater...nt

[rockfordfile]

83. I agree.

All religions are a terrible nuisance on societies.

Christian religion would love to put this in to practice in our country. Thank you U.S Constitution.

[MariaThinks]

12. nice wide category 'apostasy' - can be used to kill just about anyone.

[Katashi_itto]

21. Trump Foot Soldiers in five years

[leftynyc]

25. Bullshit

I think donnie is a complete asshole but we do have a constitution to deal with here. Stop with the trashing the west as if they were the same as these animals. We have enough problems without lying about what's actually going on and nobody is going to jail or being shot for leaving any religion. Just fucking stop.

[Katashi_itto]

39. See #21

[leftynyc]

47. #21 is YOUR comment

the one I was responding to. Try again.

[retrowire]

22. Oh boy.... nt

[JudyM]

26. The best that can happen: he comes to regret it & tells the story as a cautionary tale to discourage

further radicalization. Situational ethics can be extraordinarily powerful ... Our frame gets so narrowly focused we don't see our actions as unethical. Like the old Milgram experiments.

I'm not holding my breath.

[FrodosPet]

48. The best that can happen: He spends the rest of his life in a shitty prison

I'm opposed to the death penalty, but anyone who would kill ANYBODY, much less their own mother, to serve an exclusionary apocalyptical religion is horrible and needs to never feel another moment of freedom or comfort.

[whatthehey]

27. Apostasy? Religion's got nothing to do with that!

It's a power grab, or disaffected youth, or a backlash against the west or their patsies. Anything but religion.

(looks in dictionary) Oh that's what apostasy means. Fuck. Sorry.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. You Bet

These guys are gangsters wrapping themselves in their religion. Now, i see some cultural issues that result in even slightest modicum of acceptance by the populations in which they operate. Those religious tenets have them accepting this gangsterism because it pretends to adhere to their personally held beliefs.

[whatthehey]

42. So executions for apostasy are not ISIS' beliefs, but the population's?

That's even more damning, surely?

Those religious tenets have them accepting this gangsterism because it pretends to adhere to their personally held beliefs.

[ProfessorGAC]

95. Yes

You're failure to recognize the reality of 2016 is on you

[whatthehey]

97. My're failure to do what?

You're all over the place here. First you seem to reject the idea this is religiously motivated, then you say ISIS is pretending to be religiously motivated but really faking it to ape the real religious motivation of the people in the area, and say I're wrong even though my're only claim is that executions for religious crime have religious motivations. Which is it?

[Helen Borg]

46. Do you think it would have happened to the father?

...

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

54. Well, not now, anyway.

I think he will be very careful about his life from here on out.

[juxtaposed]

68. As I posted earlier religion doesn't kill ppl., ppl. kill ppl.

[LiberalLovinLug]

86. All religion is a sickness

at one time Christianity was the sickest of the lot. Today Islam is the sickest, most perverted of all of them. The fact that such an extreme violent gang of ISIS grew so fast and is so effective could have only happened because they have a large portion of the Muslim world that moved the goalposts so close to that medival edge. That is religious conditioning. If 50% of them still believe that if another human has the audacity to decide for him or herself what God looks like, where he comes from, or if he even exists....they should be executed immediately That is one nasty virus. And the Islamic world is not doing enough to moderate its interpretation of the Koran.

The one saving grace of the Christian religion may be the message of Jesus. And the message of loving your enemies and doing good to those that harm you etc...The parts that Ghandi admired. The new testament has worked as a buffer against too aggressive of behaviour by using old testament verses. Although one could make arguments about W. Bush's God led invasion of Iraq, that even Christianity still can be abused and steered for political purposes.

That's why all religion is a sickness to some degree. Its a mind control device that gives the user the incomparable gift of everlasting love, and life, and righteous superiority....if only one lives by strict moral rules and gives themselves over to any suggestion that their local chosen paster, priest, or other clergyperson and church leaders perpetrate on them by slow methodical sermonizing together with immersion in the fellowship of the cult, and feelings of being part of a community. This is not bad in its own right, but as an arm of the cult of religion it serves the greater purpose. That of spreading the virus further.

[LeftishBrit]

87. Wow. ISIS are an insane cult, and unfortunately one with power in some places

That poor woman.

[romanic]

91. Savage.

That's all that comes to mind with this story.

[Quantess]

94. All religions are fucked, but one religion really is worse than all the others.

It is time for the world to stand up to muslim extremists and start saying NO.

[Rex]

98. That's love for you, love for death misery and wholesale slaughter of innocent people.

Of course he gave it zero thought and pulled the trigger. What a good little Nazi.

[JRLeft]

110. Religion is a crime to humanity.

[oberliner]

112. Some religions are quite benign

Janism, for example.