Police: Man who had 3 grandsons hike Grand Canyon killed

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Police: Man who had 3 grandsons hike Grand Canyon killed
Updated 1:28 pm, Sunday, January 10, 2016

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — An Indianapolis man convicted of child abuse in 2012 for forcing three grandsons to hike the Grand Canyon has been shot to death, police said.

Christopher Carlson, 50, was found shot multiple times Friday evening in an alley on the city's north side, the Indianapolis Metropolitan police Department said in a news release. Detectives did not immediately have any suspects in the slaying.

Carlson's relatives stated he was the same man convicted in federal court of child abuse for forcing his grandsons — then ages 8, 9 and 12 — to hike 19 miles in the Grand Canyon in August 2011, Sgt. Christopher Wilburn said Sunday.

The boys testified that Carlson kicked or hit them if they were too slow on the hike.



Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Police-Man-who-had-3-grandsons-hike-Grand-Canyon-6749311.php

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[Liberal_in_LA]

1. Young looking grandpa

[yeoman6987]

2. I thought so too

I still shocked he got in trouble hiking the Grand Canyon. To think I thought I heard it all.

[7962]

3. Well, 8 yrs old is a bit young for a 19 mile hike!

[happyslug]

10. Not really, if you work around the kids limits. Which this men did NOT.

I did some long hikes at that age, it seems long but doable. You have to take breaks, bring plenty of water and food for the kids and do NOT beat them. Eight is a difficult age, at that age the child is getting to big to be carried, but not yet strong enough to go through that pace like an adult. The twelve year was clearly old enough to do that trail, with the accommodation one would do for an adult. On the other hand the other two children are a little young so you have to make frequent breaks and keep the pace to that of the youngest child. You may even have to carry the eight year old for a bit.

Please note my comments are assuming these are three healthy children of they age, not a child with problems, either physical or mental.

I suspect this grandfather wanted the kids to go at his pace, and that was the first mistake. It appears the grandfather did not bring extra water, or told the kids they had to carry they own water, this was the second mistake. In such a hike the grandfather should have carried all of the extra water in a backpack, with each kid carrying one canteen. This slows up the adult and speeds up the children. With teens you have them carry the extra water, to slow them down to your pace.

Now saying the above, this was a 19 mile hike in the Grand Canyon, not some flat bike trail. On a rails to trail bike trail, children of this age could do 50 miles. The reason is such trails have less then a 3 percent grade with most less then 1 percent grade. The Grand Canyon trail is a trail with much higher grades. The combination of length plus grade can reach a level that was impossible even for an adult. That was the third mistake, going on a trail designed for adults.

I suspect the abuse charge had nothing to do with the length of the trail, or its grade but the actions of the grandfather to get the three children to finish the trail. I.e.what this men did to the kids to get them to finish the trail. It appears he did not take breaks when the children needed one, instead beat them to keep moving. That what he was convicted of, not the above three mistakes.

If the length of the trail was the problem no need to mention the physical abuse, thus the abuse he was convicted of was what he did to the children to keep them moving. 19 mile trail is doable by children of this age but you have to work around the fact they are still to small to be treated as an adult, but to large to be carried. Thus frequent breaks are called for. Extra water and food has to be carried by any adult going with the children.

Just a comment that there is more to the abuse story then a 19 mile trail, namely what he did to the three kids to get them to finish the trail at his pace. That appears to be abuse he was convicted of. Taking kids on a trail they can not finish does not show any intent to do harm. It shows stupidity but that is NOT abuse. On the other hand beating them to finish the trail show a clear intent to do the children harm, and thus abuse and I suspect this is why he was convicted, not the length of the trail.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. I had the same question until I read the last line of the excerpt:

"The boys testified that Carlson kicked or hit them if they were too slow on the hike."

[Warpy]

5. As I recall, the original story was even worse

because it was a double time hike and he wanted to toughen them up so they didn't have any food or water. The kids were not in good shape by the time Grandpa got done with them.

I don't think there will be many tears shed at his funeral.

ETA:

The interviews revealed that Carlson had forced them to drink water from the Colorado River, which caused the boys to throw up multiple times, as well as kicked them repeatedly with steel-toed boots and threw them into cactuses.

Carlson told the investigators that he was trying to toughen up the boys. He was taken into custody after National Park employees said he forced the boys to go on a hike in temperatures that exceeded 100 degrees. A man died from dehydration earlier that same day on a nearby trail close to where Carlson and the boys were hiking.

During the trial, Micah testified that the worst part of the trip was throwing up and excruciating pain from the blisters on the bottom of his feet.

The blisters on the bottom of Micah's feet were so bad by the end of the second hike that they had turned into ulcers. He had to undergo treatment that is usually used for burn victims, prosecutors said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/grandpa-christopher-carlson-27-months-jail-grand-canyon/story?id=16570399

[happyslug]

12. Hiking in steel toe boots? He is a nut.

Steel toe boots are NOT designed for hiking. Now some combat boots have Steel toes, but even the Army tells they soldiers to get rid of them on any long hike. The steel interferes with the movement of the toes thus affect your walking. Thus you do NOT hike in steel toes shoes unless you have to. Tennis shoes or even sandals are better. If you want to be tough, go barefoot like the Ancient Spartans or the later Zulus.

Sidenote: When vorBeck was fighting in East Africa in WWI, he remember the stores of the Zulus who fought barefooted. He remembered reading about the ancient Spartans who did the same. VorBeck decided to try it out himself before he would order his men to go shoeless. Thus he walked barefooted on the trails his men were marching on and had no problems. He then went cross country and saw the tall grass of East Africa tear his feet apart. Afterward he saw a local African making shoes. This German Colonel, commander of all German forces in what was then German East Africa, now Tanzania, sat down and asked the African to teach him how to make shoes the native way (in 1936, when Hitler offered him the ambassadorship to Britain, he told Hitler to go f--- himself, Vorbeck was the classic imperial German Officer and as such he hated everything Hitler stood for). VorBeck knew he would get no supplies from Germany for the duration, but he had to keep his soldiers foot shod. Thus he learned and taught his men how to make their own shoes. Just a comment that going shoeless maybe worse then hiking in steel toe boots, but not that much worse.

[Warpy]

13. Well, the point is that the victim was a horrible man who abused kids

It's a really sad story, the mother sounds like a total space shot, too, so as far as I know, the kids are still in foster care.

[trillion]

15. Thanks for posting this.

[denbot]

14. My wife and I hiked across the Canyon in July almost 10 years ago, it nearly killed us.

It is brutally hot in the lower levels of the canyon during the summer months, with July/August bringing the worst temperatures. Our route was the north rim to the south rim, with an over night stay in a bunkhouse at the bottom called Phantom Ranch. We carried 3 liters of water each, and replenished at every opportunity, but that still did not seem to be enough.

To force march three young boys through that heat at the height of summer could have ended tragically.

This is a picture of us at the end of our hike totally exhausted, but elated we had made it.

[IMG][/IMG]

[trillion]

16. Glad you made it! Thanks for sharing, lovely pic.

You've talked me out of trying it.

[denbot]

17. No, don't get me wrong, be prepared and go for it.

It was a wonderful experience, but do it in early/late spring, or early fall unless you are well prepared, and young and fit. My wife and I were then in our mid to late 40's, and somewhat less than fit for the challenge.

We would like to do it again, during a more temperate season, and a leisurely pace, instead of one day down, and the next day up.

On the trail we met a couple that were fit and in their twenties, who breezed down and up on the same schedule, so your mileage could definitely vary.

[Recursion]

18. When I was in the Marines, stationed in the Mojave, we went east for a Grand Canyon hike one weekend

We were used to 10-15 mile days in the high desert, and that damn canyon kicked our asses. I salute anybody else who's done that traverse. It's not for the fainthearted.

[denbot]

19. Other then being unprepared, the biggest problem for fit hikers is over confidence.

An accurate discription for a traverse is "climbing a mountain in reverse". If you expende a lot of your energy galavanting down into the canyon, you may well be low on gas for the climb out.

As an old Navy man, I doubt there is a more confident group of hikers then a bunch of Marines on leave. I guess you were stationed at 29 Palms?

[Recursion]

20. Yep. Or 29 Stumps as we call it

We did it, but damned if I would ever do that again.

[LittleGirl]

21. Used to live in AZ

I went for a long hike in November and it was exhausting and HOT at 72 degrees! Well done. I would have never considered it in mid-summer during monsoon season, no way!

[Proserpina]

7. That picture is probably 20 years old

[uppityperson]

6. That is an odd headline to the article.

[christx30]

8. I kept trying to parse it.

Did the grandfather have the 3 kids killed at the Grand Canyon while on a hike?
Then I read the story.

[uppityperson]

9. I fail to feel much sympathy toward him, but condolences to his family

Police: Man who had 3 grandsons hike Grand Canyon killed....a deer? Nope
Police: Man who had 3 grandsons, hieks Grand Canyon and was killed? Nope
Police: Man who forced 3 grandsons to hike Grand Canyon was killed. Getting there

[Kalidurga]

11. Yes that made my head hurt. So in order to figure it out I had to read the story.

I would have anyway, because I remember when the story of him abusing/torturing/nearly killing his grandsons came out and this would be a follow up story.

[jmowreader]

22. Sure they have suspects

Everyone who ever knew him is a suspect.