Marseille Jews urged not to wear skullcaps after teacher attack

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: AFP

Marseille (AFP) - The leader of Marseille's Jewish community on Tuesday urged Jews in the southern French port city to refrain from wearing skullcaps after a teacher was hurt in an attack by a Turkish teenager.

"Remove the kippah during this troubled time until better days," said Zvi Ammar, head of Marseille's Israelite Consistory, a day after the youth attacked the 35-year-old Jewish teacher with a machete in broad daylight, leaving him injured in the shoulder and one hand.

"Unfortunately for us, we are targeted. As soon as we are identified as Jewish we can be assaulted and even risk death," he told AFP. "For me, life is more sacred than any other criterion," Ammar said, while adding that making such an appeal made him "sick to the stomach".

The 15-year-old ethnic Kurd who attacked the teacher on Monday told police he was acting in the name of the Islamic State group.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/marseille-jews-urged-not-wear-skullcaps-teacher-attack-173153898.html;_ylt=A0LEVzzQO5VWIe8AIX1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--

[Coventina]

1. A 15 year old?!?!?

I weep for humanity.

[leftynyc]

2. 15 years old and already

infected with hatred and voices support for a group of animals. Lovely. No wonder so many French Jews are moving.

[B2G]

3. Is this one of the 'children' we're always hearing about

and being mocked for fearing?

Or maybe it's these 'children'.



Three teenagers aged 15 from Syria have been arrested for rape after a 17-year-old girl was attacked in a public swimming pool in Munich on Saturday.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/633850/Syrian-Emerge-attacks-Germany-Cologne-NYE-Merkel

[JudyM]

11. Despicable. Another case reported in the article:

"Officers have also made an arrest for rape and attempted murder after a 24-year-old woman was attacked on Christmas Eve.

The alleged attacker, aged 20 from Morocco, was traced to an asylum seeker centre.

During the attack outside a cemetery in Gelsenkirchen the woman was approached from behind and beaten unconscious before being dragged into a cemetery and raped."

No regard for human life. What is up with that?!

[Bernin]

20. It's what they grew up with.

And, the idea that prison will rehabilitate these types is just stupid.

A European prison is still worlds better than the dumps they left back home.

[JudyM]

47. They grew up with women hiding their beauty, too. They think that exposed face and limbs is

somehow an invitation?

[7962]

23. THANK you.

[Wolf Frankula]

4. Every Teacher Should Wear a Skullcap in Solidarity

Tell me why Europe needs more people like the attacker.

Wolf

[elljay]

7. Yeah, Sure

Why would they bother? During the Holocaust, when millions might have been saved had European Christians protested, only the governments of Denmark and Albania protected their Jewish citizens. Other governments and institutions like the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches remained silent and those brave individuals who took it upon themselves to save Jews did so in secrecy, as fearful of their fellow Christians as of the Nazis. As right-wing Europeans organize against Muslims, they also return to the same old anti-Jewish trope of the past. Europe remains profoundly anti-Semitic at its core and I am not seeing signs of this changing.

[JudyM]

48. Good observations. Nt

[happyslug]

57. Source????

Pope Pius IX, the Pope before WWII issued a letter to the German People, smuggled into Germany informing Catholics not to trust Hitler

In 1937 Pope Pius XI issued in German, "Mit Brennender Sorge" "With Burning Anxiety":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mit_brennender_Sorge#Race

The Actual document, in English:

http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html

It was a carefully written document, designed NOT to be offensive, but at the same time pointed out problems the Vatican had with the Nazis. The Nazis and Hitler are NOT named in the document, but the attack on dogma of the Nazis is clear, including an attack on Racial discrimination.

This was to be followed in 1939 by "Humani generis unitas" (Latin; English translation: On the Unity of the Human Race), but when Pius XI died, his successor Pius XII thought it to provocative to Hitler and the Nazis to release it (another reason was the draft, while attacking racism and anti-Semitism, retained negative comments as to Jewish as a religion).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humani_generis_unitas

Pius XII instead issued a separate paper, after the Fall of Poland where he attacks the attack on Poland and the German-Soviet agreement to divide Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summi_Pontificatusius XII

One of the problem was Pius XII had gone up via the Diplomatic Service of the Vatican, while Pius XI had been a book worm and head of the Vatican Library. Thus Pius XII was always more careful as to his words, while Pius XI had a greater sense of evil in the form of Hitler and Stalin.

In his Christmas Broadcast of 1942 he said the following:

Mankind owes that vow to the numberless exiles whom the hurricane of war has torn from their native land and scattered in the land of the stranger; who can make their own the lament of the Prophet: 'Our inheritance is turned to aliens; our house to strangers.' Mankind owes that vow to the hundreds of thousands of persons who, without any fault on their part, sometimes only because of their nationality or race, have been consigned to death or slow extermination."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII%27s_1942_Christmas_address

Of that speech, The Nazi considered it an attack on them

One of the problems with the Catholic Church was till June 5, 1944, the Vatican was behind, first Italian and later Nazi lines. Thus most activities were covert:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_resistance_to_Nazi_Germany

Please note, Catholic Opposition to Nazism had another restriction, the Vatican (like the US and the Allies) saw Germany as a bulkhead against Soviet Communism. Thus the Vatican wanted a strong Germany, but not a Nazi Germany. The problem was given the politics of the 1930s and 1940s a strong non Nazi, non Communist Germany was not possible (Through this was the goal of the Vatican and the US, through the US officially did not embrace the concept till 1947).

As to the Orthodox, most were under Soviet Rule and as long as they were under Soviet Rule, no Holocaust was occurring, at least not any aimed as just Jews (Stalin had his own rules on who to kill). Under Nazi controlled parts of the Soviet Union, people of Orthodox faith were treated like any of the other Slavs by the Nazis, as a people one step above the Jews (and NOT a large step). Thus, unlike the Catholics, the Orthodox really had no real opportunity to stop or support sending the Jews to the Death Camps. Serbia and Greece were occupied countries and thus could NOT stop the killing of their own people let alone any Jews. Through the Orthodox Church tried to do what Catholic attempted in Poland and Czechoslovakia, issue false baptism certificate hoping to fool Nazis that these were not Jews. The problem Nazism did not dislike Jews do to Religion, but race so such false certificates were useless unless their convinced a Nazi someone was not a member of the Jewish Race.

Greece has a good record as to opposing Anti-Semitism, but like Poland and Italy after the Nazis occupied them, The Nazis gather all the Jews and Killed them, and they was not much the locals could do. Turkey was friendly to the Nazis and hated Greeks, so Turkey was NOT an option for Greece. Crete was Nazi occupied and Cypress to far away for small boats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Greece#World_War_II.2C_Resistance_and_the_Holocaust

Serbia like Greece, you had little local assistance to the Nazis, but the Nazis were very good an killing the Jews without much local support (You had some support for the extermination of the Jews in Serbia, but that tended to be pro Nazi sympathizers, of the type you find in any country). Please note Serbia, among the countries of the Balkans, has the highest number of people recognized by Israel as saving the lives of Jews during the Holocaust:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Serbia

As to Albania, the record is mixed. Before WWII, Albania was a colony of Italy, Italian Fascism was not aggressively anti-semitic like the Nazis. Thus few attacks on Jews til the Italian surrender in 1943, then the Nazis moved in and raised an Albania Waffen SS Division who helped the Nazis gather up the Jews of Albania, till the Russians and Yugoslavian partisans drove the Nazis out in 1944. The General consensus is while most Albanians did not join in with the Germans in killing Jews, most Jews in Albania were saved by the Italians serving in Albania not the Albanians themselves:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Albania

Please note Italy surrendered when southern Italy was invaded, thus from that invasion in 1943, Italy north of the Allied lines in southern Italy came under Nazi rule, and only then did you see Italian Jews being sent to the Death Camps (this was helped by Italian Fascists who allied themselves with the Nazis, and opposed by the Italian Communists who fought it out with the Fascists and Nazis as the Allied Forces fought they way up the Italian Boot). Thus like Poland, when it came to support sending the Jews to the Death Camps, the Italians are absent from the effort except for some collaborators,

In Israel, you have "The Righteous Among The Nations" memorial, for those people who saved Jewish lives during WWII. Poland has the highest number of people so honored, and the memorial notes among the Slavs, Greeks, and other residents of Eastern Europe, the punishment for helping a Jew was death, it was a mere fine in what the Nazis called "Aryan Europe" i.e Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy and France. For this reason it has more dangerous for someone east of Germany to help the Jews, and more of them DIED doing so AND most of those who died we have no idea of who they were, the Nazis killed them and disposed of the bodies as they saw fit.

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/statistics.asp#!prettyPhoto

Now, Denmark did protect its Jew, but that was the result of the Nazi Occupation of Denmark as a strategic hedge against Britain as oppose to any desire to take over Denmark. As a result, unlike in Poland, Serbia, Greece, and other countries under direct German Rule, Denmark was ruled by its own Government and its own courts till 1943. Thus like the Governments of Poland, Greece, Italy, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, the Ukraine and the Soviet Union, you did NOT see any killing of Jews or shipping Jews to Death Camps TILL AFTER ALL OF THEM WERE NAZI OCCUPIED. Thus Denmark did no more then what Mussolini did before 1943 when it came to the Jews, some discrimination against Jews were permitted but that was it. It was the Nazi occupation of Denmark in August 1943 that lead to the Jews being rounded up, and at that point the Danes managed to get most of the Jews to Sweden.

Now, once the Nazis fully took over Denmark in August 1943, the Danish people managed to do what no one else did, get most of their Jewish Citizens out of Denmark. This was easy compared to what other countries had to do. First. some Danish troops had withdrawn into Sweden when German first took Denmark in April 1940. Those troops, through few in number, were still inside neutral Sweden when the move was made. Second, Germany imported Iron Ore from Sweden, Sweden was the German's main source of Iron, and by 1943 Germany did not have the troops to invade Sweden (Damn Russians tying up all those German Troops in Stalingrad and Kursk, the Danish movement of Jews out of Denmark was AFTER those two defeats). Third, it is only a 10 Kilometer trip from Copenhagen to Sweden (and that is doable by rowboat or Kayak, both were used in addition to speed boat and ferries). The King of Sweden did issue a Radio message that any Jew could come to Sweden, but outside of Norway and Denmark, Sweden was hard to get to, thus most of the Jews that reached Sweden came from Denmark or Norway.

Thus Denmark has the best reputation of all of the occupied Nazi States as to saving its Jewish Population, but it is more the result of what its people did on their own, the tying up of German forces in Russia, the existence of Danish Troops in Sweden, and the need of Germany for Swedish Iron Ore. The rest of Europe did not have those factors and had to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews

Norway had its own problems. First Denmark was important as a safe way to Norway, beside that, Food exports were the main German gain from taking Denmark (and most of that food would have been exported to Germany anyway, so not that much of a gain for Germany). Norway was the prize for it opened up the North Sea to German ships, both U-Boats and Surface Ships and an air base to launch air attacks on Britain. German ships could get air protection from Airplanes operating out of Norwegian Air Bases. British and French Ships (Norway fell a month before Hitler attacked France in May 1940) would have to stay away from the Norwegian coast do to fear of any air attack. This also scared Sweden to stay neutral for once Norway fell, no one could come to the aid of Sweden except the Soviet Union (and that was help the Swedes did not want).

Given this concentration on Norway, Denmark could be ignored by the Nazis (and was). In Norway, both the national Government and local Government were dissolved and an occupational government took over. In Denmark, both stayed in the hands of the Danes. In Norway, the local police were kept, but under strict German control (Unlike Denmark where the local police and even some Danish Troops stayed active but under Danish Control till August 1943).

Even Norway did well when it came to protecting its Jewish population. Its Jewish Population was quite low (Like most European countries till the mid 1800s had laws against Jews entering the country, thus low Jewish population, but it had permitted over 300 German Jews to move to Norway in the 1930s as Hitler increase his discrimination policies against jews in Germany). And when the Nazis started the Holocaust (Remember it did not start till December 1941, after the US entered the War against Hitler and appears to have been adopted do to the US entrance into the war, to "Punish" the Jews of New York for NOT keeping the US out of any war with Hitler) Norway had no effective way to protect its Jewish population except to get them to Sweden by hiking over the mountains that separate Norway from Sweden.

Thus no systematic execution of Jews occurred in any part of Nazi Occupied Europe prior to January 1942. You did have SS death squads killing Jews in Poland and Russia (and elsewhere but NOT in Denmark, Norway, the Low Countries or France) as the Nazi Armies moved into both Nations but as soon as the fighting was over, such death squads disappeared in Poland (They disappeared in Russia after 1941, most Jews were behind the lines by then).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Norway

Here is a report on Norway's most successful rescue of Jews, by getting them into Sweden, started by an owner of a Nursery when four Jewish refugees came to his nursery looking for help to get to Sweden. This lasted only two months, but did up to ten trips a week. This is only 200 to 300 people saved, but one of the biggest single efforts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Fredriksens_Transport

Please note, do to how it was occupied, the Jews of Norway either had to get out of Norway by the middle of 1942 or were shipped to a Death Camp. This was a year before the Danish roundup, so the Danes had time to learn of what happened in Norway.

Please note, one of the reasons the above Norwegian effort eventually failed was it involved to many people. After two months news of it had spread and to many people wanted to help, but some of these volunteers were collaborators with the Nazis. The best groups, the groups that lasted the longest had no more then four or five people involved. That keeps the chances of someone informing to a minimum. At the same time it restricts how many people you can save.

The Danish operation was successful because while it was a large operation, it was run as a series of small operations around the same time. It was over in a few days and the people who did it each went they own way. The situation in Denmark had been, you heard about the German Defeat at Stalingrad (February 1943), then Kursk (Ended 23 August 1943), then the Allied invasion of Sicily (14 July 1943 till 17 August 1943). Danes also had time to learned of the 1942 Norwegian roundup of Jews by the Nazis.

The German Defeats of 1943 lead to increase resistance to German Occupation in Denmark. Together with what was happening in Sicily and Russia this increase in resistance lead to the Germans on 29 August 1943 dissolving the Government of Denmark and impose Martial law. Thus everyone in Denmark knew things were changing and changing fast and then the Germans made their moves on the Jews in Denmark. The Danes, and it apparently were all small groups, work to get the Jews of Denmark to Sweden. Some coordination by the Government, and approval of the King, lead the Danes to move the Jews, mostly by neighbors to keep their Neighbors and friends who happened to be Jews alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews#Deportation_order_and_rescue

The Danes were helped by the German Diplomat to Denmark, who appears have have worked to get the Jews out of Denmark, by telling the Danish government bureaucrats of the German plans to gather up all of the Jews on Jewish New Year (Yom Kipper, Oct 1-2 1943). These Bureaucrats then called every Jew their knew and told them to go into hiding. These Bureaucrats even called Rabbis who told their congregations to go into hiding AND to tell other Jews to go into hiding.

This was viewed as a first step, but one that could only be temporary, On Yom Kipper, October 1-2 1943, The Swedes stepped in and said they would accept any Jew that reached their shoreline. That statement started the movement of the Jews to Sweden. It is only a 10 Kilometer boat ride to Sweden from Copenhagen, where most of the Jews lived, so the unorganized movement did not need to do much, just get the Jews to a boat, ship, kayak or even Rowboat to cross the Denmark Straits.

Thus everything work together to save the Jews of Denmark, things impossible to even hope for elsewhere. In the rest of Europe it was harder to get the Jews to safety. One story I read about was the Jews in the Polish Warsaw Ghetto. The Polish Army, which survived as a resistance unit after 1939, told the Jews to escape the Ghetto for the Germans were planning to destroy it. Most of the Jews refused to leave. They had read stories, planted by the Nazis of Poles killing Jews (did occur, but rare but good for the Germans to scare the Jews to stay in the Ghetto). The Poles told the Jews they could NOT help the Jews. the occupation of Poland was much harsher then the occupation of Denmark and the Poles could only move the Jews to the rural Areas of Poland. Most Jews had lived in the urban areas of Poland. The rural areas of Poland, after 1941 came more and more under Polish control. With the Fuel shortage caused by Hitler invading his main source of oil (Russia) any operations in Rural Poland had to be done by foot or horse. This gave the rural areas the ability to be free of Nazi control, but people in the rural areas still had to go to the cities for that is where the rail-head were to sell their products and buy things that they needed. Any attack on any rail-head or track was watched for by the Nazis AND strictly punished (Mostly by shooting anyone near the spot of the attack). Thus in rural Poland, you were free, but had to watch were you went.

The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto did not believe they would be safe in rural Poland given the stories they had read about (and existing anti-semitism dating to the Tsarists rule of Poland in the 1800s). Thus they stayed in the Ghetto and were murdered when they revolted with ten handguns.

The Stoop report of the suppression of the Warsaw Ghetto:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nowarsaw.html

Polish Home Army (AK, it Polish abbreviation) report on Arms Shipments to the Warsaw Ghetto:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/survey.html

You had no Ghetto in Denmark (and in Warsaw prior to the Nazi Occupation, through Warsaw did have a Jewish Ghetto before WWII, but it was just that part of town the Jews lived in, it was NOT the walled off section the Nazis created)

Just a comment that Albanian and Danes did what they did given the geography. Both people did not come under total Nazi rule till 1943, and then in the case of Albania it was so isolated Nazi rule never really came into play but the Albanians did raise a SS Division to beat up on Serbs and Jews (mostly Serbs). The Danes had the advantage of being under a light occupation with Sweden 10 KM away. To far to swim, but it is within easy reach even of a rowboat. The rest of Europe the situation was much harder, Easier in Western Europe then Eastern Europe given Nazi Dogma but neither was it as nice as in Denmark or Albania. Thus it is no surprise those two countries had the least lost of Jewish life.

On the other hand, the other countries of Europe, even in Germany, did a lot to stop the Holocaust but given the power the Nazis had at that time period, hard for most of those countries to do more then they did.

[uhnope]

14. exactly re the skullcap part

[KamaAina]

5. Got pogroms?

[Behind the Aegis]

6. I really want to visit Europe.

However, I know there are places I would make damn sure I didn't wear anything which identified me as a Jew! France is one such place. Anti-Semitism: the hate that just keeps on trucking.

[uhnope]

13. wait what?

Yr blaming ISiS-inspired attacks on anti-Semitism in France?

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Say what now?

I didn't even mention ISIS. Is this just sarcasm I am not getting?

[uhnope]

21. I guess you did not read the article

[7962]

24. There's a history of anti-Semitism in france regardless of ISIS

[Behind the Aegis]

58. I still don't understand the question/accusation.

I said nothing about ISIS and the article, IMO, does not appear to claim anti-Semitism is because of ISIS. Europe has a looooong history of anti-Semitism. France has had a serious problem for years and years, but it has been fairly steady unlike countries like Spain, Italy and Greece, which all seem to be on an increase; thus my comment about not wearing anything which would identify me as a Jew in Europe.

[grossproffit]

30. Yep.

[smirkymonkey]

8. Gee, I wonder where all the usual suspects are who are constantly going on about

racism in Europe? I guess it doesn't count when it's a Muslim attacking a Jew.

[philosslayer]

9. One teacher was hurt by one student

Terrible as it is. Do Muslims commit crimes? yes. Do Jews commit crimes? yes. Individuals commit crimes, and should be prosecuted.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. You do understand this crime was committed BECAUSE the teacher was a Jew, right?

This is not a situation where the victim happened to be Jewish, he was chosen for an attack because he was a Jew. Does that even register?

[christx30]

12. But if it were a Christian

attacking a Muslim or a mosque, it would be all about hate crimes and how bad this country treats minorities.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Exactly.

Always seems to be a case of "look over there" when it comes to Jews as victims, and sadly, women are being added to that category.

I just found this...

Jewish French Councilman Found Murdered in Apartment

On Tuesday, the body of 73 year old French municipal councilor Alain Ghozland was found in his apartment, riddled with stab wounds. Though all signs point to a homicide, authorities have no leads in the investigation as of yet, the L’Express newspaper reported.

Ghozland’s body was discovered by his brother, who contacted police after Ghozland failed to arrive at shul in the morning. Ghozland’s apartment was ransacked, most likely by the intruders.

The municipal councilor, whose father was involved in founding the local Jewish cultural association, was a prominent and active figure in French-Jewish politics. Conseil Représentatif des Institutions Juives de France (CRIF), the umbrella organization that represents French Jewry, described Ghozland as “a prominent leader of the local Jewish Community.”


“People are upset,” a relative of Ghozland said. “They do not know what to think and ask a lot of questions.”

Anti-Semitism has, of course, not been ruled out as a possibility in Ghozland’s death. Concerns over anti-Semitism are especially prevalent due to the fact that Ghozland’s murder arrives just two days after a Jewish man in Marseilles was attacked with a machete. Some in the Jewish community are also concerned by increasing desensitivity to violence against Jews, which is often written off as a result of mental illness rather than hatred.

more: http://jpupdates.com/2016/01/12/jewish-french-councilman-found-murdered-in-apartment/

Of course, this isn't from a "mainstream" publication, but a Jewish one, so there are a few who will immediately suspect it is "all a lie" or have to have "something more legitimate" as proof.

[philosslayer]

15. Then its a hate crime, and should be prosecuted as such.

Again, one perpetrator, one victim. What is your point?

[Behind the Aegis]

17. The point is it a hate crime against JEWS, not Muslims.

So, the topic is ANTI-SEMITISM. That's the point!

[philosslayer]

19. Perhaps I'm missing something

Yes, it was a hate crime against Jews. Yesterday, there were dozens of hate crimes against Muslims in Leipzig. The criminals responsible in all cases should be tried for hate crimes.

[christx30]

22. The crimes in Leipzig are

a response to German government inaction and attempted coverup of the assault crime wave on New Year's Eve. Also the fact that cops seem more willing to go after so-called hate speech over crimes where people are actually being harmed, because of the religion of the perpetrators.
People are pissed and lashing out.

[philosslayer]

25. Wow. So you're excusing them???

Let me guess; you disagree with looting restaurants, but you "understand" the motivation behind it.

[christx30]

27. Of course I understand it.

I'm pissed off too. If my family was hurt by something like that, and the government was trying to keep it hushed up, I'd be absolutely livid over it.
Not everyone is willing to accept the assaults like you are. Some of us want this handled harshly by the German authorities. From minute one if this thing, you seemed to want to deflect any blame from the bad guys and go after the people reacting to the attacks with the same zeal as the actual criminals. You also expressed hope that the immigrants would change German culture forever. it was chilling as hell.
So, yes I understand the anger. I don't agree with destruction, but the people of Germany deserve to feel like their government will protect them from filth like what happened on NYE. And it looks like they are incapable or unwilling, paralyzed by a desire to appear inclusive.

[philosslayer]

31. No one is "accepting" the assaults

They were wrong. The perpetrators should be punished. Rapes happen every day in Germany. A small number by migrants, and a much larger number by native Germans. They should all be vigorously investigated and prosecuted.

But nothing excuses the looting of the businesses of totally innocent people. You don't seem all that upset by it. But you know the only thing more terrifying than a group of migrants hanging outside of a train station on NYE and harassing and groping women?? An enraged cadre of right wing fascists and thugs rampaging through a business area and destroying someone's life's work. Because that group of right wing thugs is growing, has political power, and threatens the stability of Germany.

Are you familiar with Kristallnacht? We're starting to see reincarnations of it bloom. THAT is what should terrify you.

[christx30]

34. What happened on NYE was not a normal

assault. It was a terrorist act. It's message was that the German people can't count on their government. The cops were totally unable to get a handle on it. The people involved in it were detained briefly and released. No one seemed to want to be the one that arrested one of the poor, downtrodden immigrants.
Contrast that with the protest that happened a few days ago, and the cops blasted the protestors with water cannons to get them to disperse. Why didn't they do that to the rapists? Why not do more to try to help people in what seems like (at least to the authorities) a planned, coordinated attack? There's even a name for it: "taharrush gamea".

[Bluenorthwest]

42. The breaking of windows by fascists is bad but no one was hurt and many women were hurt on NYE

To say the property damage is worse than harm to many human beings is pretty nasty territory. Leipzig had 200 arrests out of a riot crowd not much larger than that.

Kristallnacht was carried out by a paramilitary arm of the Party that ruled the land, an attack on Jews. The subject of the OP is an attack on a Jew and you are dismissing that attack even as you invoke the Holocaust. Takes some stone cold something to do that.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. "Stone cold"

Boy, you nailed it! However, it is quite common, even expected, in threads where anti-Semitism is the topic.

[leftynyc]

65. They'll do and post anything

to deflect from this kind of thing against Jews. It's pathetic but disgustingly predictable. Especially from some posters.

[7962]

26. When the govt doesnt act, people OVERreact. Thats whats happening.

Maybe it will stop when the govt starts doing more to protect its citizens as opposed to bending over for the onslaught of immigrants. If that doesnt happen, then the actions of the CITIZENS will only intensify.
The more crimes committed by the Muslim immigrants, the more emboldened the citizens will become, until one side gives in. Anyone who didnt see this coming at the very beginning has had their head in the sand.

[Mosby]

28. Anti-Semitism in France is growing rapidly

Last year in France four Jews were killed in a supermarket, maybe you heard about it. Since then Antisemitic incidents in France have increased by a whopping 84%.

In 2012 a rabbi and three children were murdered in Toulouse by a Jihadist.

France is not a safe place for Jews.


http://www.jta.org/2015/07/13/news-opinion/world/watchdog-anti-semitic-attacks-in-france-climbed-84-after-kosher-shop-killing
http://www.ibtimes.com/attacks-frances-jews-surge-amid-concerns-rising-anti-semitism-europe-2006003

[philosslayer]

32. And Germany is not a safe place for Muslims

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/12/german-police-arrest-211-after-far-right-riot-in-leipzig

[Mosby]

36. I wonder why?

[leftynyc]

66. Well then

maybe the migrants should be going someplace else. I mean, if Germany isn't safe enough for them - when, in fact, these migrants MOCKED the police about them being able to do anything they want up to and including raping and assaulting women, perhaps they should have stayed home. Surely a war zone would be safer, right?

[christx30]

72. So they managed to arrest over

200 people after a riot, but they don't do jack about the New Year's Eve assaults. Shows where their priorities are. That's why people are pissed.

[katsy]

33. Yes. You are missing something.

There is no call in modern western religions to mobilize against, harm, kill, stone, lash or rape people, whether woman, gay, minority, apostate, athiest, adulterer or adulteress. Same goes for modern western secular laws. Yes, sociopaths commit crimes that are sanctioned by NO ONE.

Here's what you miss: sharia law. Supported by most sects of Islam. It conflicts with western secular law. Punishments under sharia are not permitted under western law. Period. IMO, That is a source of the culture clash between Islam and everyone not of Islamic faith. It's upbringing. What we consider crimes, they consider duty. A woman defies her parents and sleeps with someone not of the faith? Honor killing is permissible. Apostate? Lashes or kill them. A Jew? Fair game for attack it seems.

It's as tho Islam teaches and condones what amounts to sociopathy in western culture.

Bad actors know no race, creed or gender. But sharia legitimizes punishment outside of normal judicial systems. That's unacceptable IMO.

[katsy]

39. That's what you got out of it?

So you're anti Semitic and anti woman.

You can't even address religious law vs secular law without disparaging someone?

I can't be more clear.... Secular laws are in conflict with religious laws hence the culture clash.

[philosslayer]

41. Please tell me where i have disparaged Jews OR women

I've never done, and never WOULD do such a thing. They were both victims of crimes. You however have brought out the old "Sharia law" canard to demonstrate how horrible and backward Muslims are. Not just individual Muslims... the entire body of Islam.

And that is my problem. DU has, within the last few months, turned totally anti-Islam. There is a difference between condemning individuals who commit crimes, and issuing blanket condemnations.

[katsy]

43. I have disparaged no one.

FACT: Sharia law is at odds with secular law. Sharia is not an old canard. It is the law according to Islamic faith.

There is no secular law that would protect some of the Christian Old Testament punishment nutbaggery. And there should be no tolerance for sharia nutbaggery. Both are equally archaic and offensive.

Muslims must live in accordance with the secular laws of their host country. Then all is well.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Sharia law is not a 'canard' it is the law of the land in 10 nations which execute LGBT and writers

and people who question the clergy. They say they are Islamic, they follow Islamic law and they defend these executions as being Islamic. It seems to me you are trying to say that objecting to that actual set of religious law that is used to rule civil nations is bigoted. You claim people have to look the other way at poets being flogged because, you know, Islamaphobia. If that's not Islam, blame those nations who mistreat women and others and tell everyone that they do it for Islam. It's not a small group of persons, it's rich nations, lots of them.

[christx30]

46. Probably because it wasn't just Muslim individuals

that committed crimes against German individuals. It was a planned, coordinated attack. And it may not be Islam on the whole, but it was a good sized chunk of that population. They are up to 500+ criminal complaints.

[leftynyc]

68. So in order to not be called

and Islamophobe by you, one has to ignore the tenets of sharia law that call for the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy. That calls for women to be treated as property by her fathers/brothers/sons? I have no problem issuing a blanket condemnation of sharia law - of ANY religious law that goes on the books of any country. That's no canard - sharia law is repulsive to women and you can't bring yourself to say that. That's entirely your problem but it seems everyone else has caught on to your schtik of calling anyone who disagrees with you an islamophobe. Nobody cares anymore.

[leftynyc]

67. Don't let that poster bother you

and take the Islamophobe tag for what it's worth - absolutely nothing. That poster has been deflecting and being an apologist for what happened on NYE in Germany since the very beginning. Starting with being skeptical that the victims were telling the truth.

Check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027509144

post #9 is vomit inducing.

[katsy]

74. Thx

It's frustrating to try and debate a valid point about biblical vs secular laws and be called names.

[leftynyc]

77. Now you know what you're dealing with

You can decide for yourself whether it's worth the time to try and educate.

[katsy]

45. + 1000

[smirkymonkey]

38. +1000

Most sensible post yet, but you'll never get through to him.

[leftynyc]

69. Sorry about your comment above

getting hidden. It was right on and I would have voted to let it stand in a heartbeat. People are waking up finally but there are still some who think whining about islamophobia equals an argument. I also stopped caring about it. Consider the source and all.

[Fix The Stupid]

76. That was a Bullshit hide. N/T

[happyslug]

61. Two Comments

First, Honor Killings is NOT part of Shari law, it is a local custom that seems to predate Islam. In fact, Aisha (I have also seen in Aysha) the youngest wife of Mohammad miss a caravan move and was picked up by a man who spotted her on the road alone. He took her to Mohammad's camp and was accused of Adultery. Mohammad asked, Ali, his son in law for advice, and Ali said the law was clear, she had committed Adultery and must die. Mohammad thought about it for a few more days and ruled that to prove Adultery the woman must either confess OR the charge must be testified to by four witnesses. Since only three people had accuse Aisha, the case was dismissed for lack of evidence. Aisha never really forgave Ali for his advice to Mohammad, even leading a revolt against Ali when Ali became Caliph. Ali defeated her, and then forgave her for the revolt.

I bring up Alisha, for it clearly show Mohammad disliked death for sex crimes UNLESS the evidence was conclusive. Furthermore, it shows that killing a woman for having sex was something he opposed unless it was adultery and then only beyond doubt as to proof.

This shows Islam does NOT require Honor killings. The Ten commands apply to Islam as the Christianity and the only sex crime was Adultery NOT fornication (Rape was covered by taking someone's property, for that include one's body at that time period, thus Rape is NOT listed but covered in the Ten Commandments). Honor Killing is NOT seen in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Libya, or elsewhere outside of roughly northern Saudi Arabia, into Syria and Palestine (but NOT among Shiites and then only among radicals among Palestinians influence by the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia).

Second,

Now, Apostasy from Islam was and is a Capital offense. Mohammad made it so when he was forming up his army. Any Army will NOT tolerate a deserter and under Islam that is how one is looked upon as being if you abandon Islam. In any Army, Desertion is a capital offense. Thus, given the nature of early Islam, that is when it was a Religion to hold the people of Arabia together to form an army to take on both Persia and Rome, then you see why Islam see Apostasy as a capital offense.

Now, like all Capital Offenses in the Bible and in the Koran, it is subject to "Forgiveness" by the victims of the Capital offense. In the case of Murder, by the victim's family (paying off such family members and in return they lift the Capital sentence is viewed as good in Islam). This was also the rule in Europe till the Rich decided they wanted dead peasants not peasants who kill and then buy they way out of the killing with the help of the rest of they extended family or village.

As to Apostasy. that can be forgiven, but unless you end back under Islamic rule, it rarely comes up. When someone is accused of it and executed for it, something else is up, generally a political dispute. Most Moslems will NOT go out of their way to kill someone for Apostasy, but will go out of their way if the person is changing his allegiance (and thus his religion). You see this when someone decides to be a Shiite (or come out as a Shiite, Shiites has always been the minority in Islam and discriminated against, thus within a Century of the Death of Mohammad the Shiites were already saying it was OK for a Shiite to say he was a Sunni, if that was the only way from being killed) or other religion. In much of the middle east, one Political Allegiance is often shown by one's religion. Thus Shiites ends up supporting Iran, Sunni Saudi Arabia. Assad of Syria is a member of a Shiite deviation, that embrace Christians Holidays as part of its dogma (and often called "Christians" but Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia for those additions to their religious holidays).

Just a comment, that Apostasy in the Moslem World is generally someone who decided he or she needs to support the other power in the Middle East, i.e. Switching from Iran to Saudi Arabia or from Saudi Arabia to Iran. You use to see this in Christian Europe, people would shift from being Catholic to Orthodox and back again, depending on whether their wanted support from Rome or Constantinople, or later Poland or the Czars of Russia. To a degree you see that in the Reformation and Counter Reformation, do you support the Kings who took the lands of the Catholic Church or the Catholic Church? Or do you support the Catholic Church and a return of those lands to the Church since the Kings just stole them. Seeking help from Sweden may require one to embrace Lutheranism, but when you wanted Russia support against Sweden, then you embraced Orthodoxy.

In the Cold War era, you saw this again, but the "Religions" was Western Capitalism vs Communism and you saw leaders shift their "Religion" from one ot the other depending on where they hope to get support. In the 1970s Albania embraced Maoism, to get support from Mao ruled China. Castro embraced Communism to get Soviet Support. Abandonment of either "Religion" gets one accused of Treason (another word for Apostasy) and plots against your life.

Just a comment of Apostasy, that it is alive and well even in the Western World, but we call such Apostates "Communists" or "Socialists" and if they get to close to power, we have seen them murdered or removed from power at the least.

I also have a third comment, I have seen "Religions" demand people be killed in the name of their "Religion" but it tends to be radical Capitalists wanted to knock off anyone who even mention a Socialist idea. Thus your comment that modern "Religion" is NOT demanding such killings is wrong. Those Religions that accept the existence of God has dropped all demands to kill non believers (and many of those religions reject killing non believers for they want to convert them to the true faith NOT kill them) but those "religions" who care less about the existence of God (Capitalism and to a lesser extent Communism) have a long history of killing people who reject their "religion".

[katsy]

75. Bottom line: respect the laws of your host country.

[smirkymonkey]

37. The point is there has been a sharp increase in hate crimes against Jews in Europe and

the perpetrators are almost always muslims. They are specifically singled out for their religion. Muslims are not the innocent victims you are trying to make them out to be. Their recent actions against German women were also hate crimes. A backlash should come as no surprise.

[kestrel91316]

29. EVERY MALE in Marseilles should put on a skullcap. Make it impossible for anti-semites to ID Jews.

[bdwker]

49. Really ?

All that will mean is more non Jews will have their skulls beaten in.

Either these people should be brought to justice or barring that...

Have justice be brought to them.

[christx30]

50. And the longer it is for the government

to do something, the greater chance that will happen to the perps. And the greater possibility of serious damage to the country. I don't know why they are dragging their feet on this, and hiding the truth from the world, except for Merkel not wanting her policies questioned.

[nsd]

62. Agreed.

A demonstration of solidarity, a demonstration that the haters (whatever their religion) are rejected and scorned, would be a good thing.

[Nihil]

64. That's a better suggestion than the one in the OP article.

I realise it was from the Jewish authorities (rather than a third party) but even so,
telling Jews to remove the Kippah to reduce the risk of attacks is too much like
that dumb-shit mayor telling women to stay at home to avoid being raped.

My only question would be if it would be offensive to Jews for a Gentile to dress
in that manner (i.e., would they be viewed as mocking them?) but, if not, it would
be an excellent expression of solidarity.

[leftynyc]

71. I'm Jewish

and can only speak for myself but if I saw a population all wearing kippahs to show solidarity, I wouldn't find it insulting at all. I would be so touched, it would be hard not to cry.

[guillaumeb]

51. So one 15 year old is representative of an entire religion?

I have read numerous grossly Islamophobic posts here that attempt to characterize an entire religion and its believers as the antithesis of Western civilization. If such vicious hate speech was directed against Judaism here it would be condemned by all. Why the double standard?

6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazi regime, and assisted by Poles, Lithuanians, Hungarians, the US, and other countries.

Does this mean every Western country that looked the other way or participated in the genocide should be condemned? And what about the Christians who looked the other way? And what about the Crusades? Or is there a Statute of Limitations that applies to western European atrocities?

[christx30]

52. And when that idiot in Colorado refused to bake that cake

for the lesbian couple, there were so many people bashing Christianity. It is what it is.

[guillaumeb]

54. It is simplistic hate speech posing as political philosophy.

Muslims are the targets. Once it was the Jews, and still is for many people. Now the new ultimate evil is anyone wearing hijab. And France is at the center of hate speech toward Muslims. The FN, led by an Islamophobe named Marion LePen, is pushing this hatred and has been since her father founded the FN.

[christx30]

55. Certain Islamists aren't helping Muslims there,

what with killing over 100 people in Paris that night. LePen is capitalizing on it. Especially since it looks like other attacks were planned.

[guillaumeb]

56. Agreed. I do not defend terrorists,

whether they are air force drone pilots killing civilians in Pakistan, or Palestinians killing Israelis, or "defenders of babies" killing Planned Parenthood workers. Or an American President ordering the drone killings of American citizens.

But I do not condemn Islam, or Christianity, or atheism, or Buddhists, for actions taken by individuals who claim to act for their philosophical beliefs. I blame the individuals.

[Matrosov]

79. The big difference is

Criticism of Christianity = constructive criticism

Criticism of Judaism = constructive criticism

Criticism of Islam = right-wing-inspired Islamophobic bigotry

[guillaumeb]

80. No, the difference is:

religion=evil is simplistic nonsense
some people use religion to justify evil=actual analysis

[Democat]

63. Bashing white Christians as a group is a favorite of many DUers

But mention anyone else and they will attack.

[leftynyc]

73. Only one group

gets a complete pass here. Islam. Everyone else would get trashed. But the islamopobe label got thrown around so much, it's lost all meaning and nobody cares about it anymore. I certainly don't.

[jberryhill]

53. Didn't France ban religious headgear?

[EllieBC]

60. Was he in school?

Because the law only applied to public schools. Not to regular on the street situations.

[dembotoz]

70. guess it is just a bad time to look different

let alone be different

hell in this county you can get beaten up just wearing the wrong team where when you go to football or baseball game

although st louis cardinals fans deserve what ever they get (kidding-sort of)

[MowCowWhoHow III]

78. Hollande says 'intolerable' for French Jews to have to hide skullcaps

Hollande says 'intolerable' for French Jews to have to hide skullcaps

Paris (AFP) - President Francois Hollande on Wednesday rejected as "intolerable" the idea that fear of attack would prompt French Jews to "hide".

"It is intolerable that in our country citizens should feel so upset and under assault because of their religious choice that they would conclude that they have to hide," Hollande said following Monday's attack on a kippa-wearing teacher in the southern city of Marseille.

http://news.yahoo.com/hollande-says-intolerable-french-jews-hide-skullcaps-174804623.html;_ylt=AwrC1DEXkJZWhEkAOSPQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--