German Imam blames Cologne rape victims; 'they wore perfume'

[7962]

Source: IsraelNationalnews.com

>>Hundreds of women were attacked by gangs of migrant men in cities across Germany and other parts of Europe on New Year’s Eve, with more than 520 sexual assaults, including three rapes, taking place in the city of Cologne.

>>Imam Sami Abu-Yusuf of the Al Tawheed mosque in Cologne defended the assailants and preached Salafism (an ultra-conservative form of Sunni Islam) in an interview on Russian TV, according to Breitbart.

>>Sami Abu-Yusuf said that he was not surprised the girls were sexually assaulted, groped and raped, because of the way they dressed.

>>“The events of New Year's Eve were the girls' own fault, because they were half naked and wearing perfume. It is not surprising the men wanted to attack them. (Dressing like that) is like adding fuel to the fire," he said

Read more: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/206828#.VqGIycArK2w

[potone]

1. Well that is certainly a helpful response.

How about instead he do something constructive like--oh, I don't know--maybe preaching in his mosque against such attacks?

[christx30]

3. That'd be like Phelps preaching in favor of gay marriage. n/t

[Skittles]

2. sick fuck

[branford]

4. If this story was carried by a German broadcaster,

they could actually be charged with hate speech or similar crimes such as inciting hatred of minorities. This is one of the reasons why much of the European press refuses to carry any stories critical of refugees or Muslim or north African immigrants or communities or downplays their significance (also because they provide easy fodder for right of center political parties.). Free speech jurisprudence and political culture are far different in Europe than the USA.

However, the problems have become so significant and obvious, and the population so angered and afraid, more and more stories are being reported, and the various governments are facing claims of cover-ups as well as incompetence.

[7962]

5. Thank you. I wondered about that.

I saw stories in British press and a couple others, but none from Germany!!

[christx30]

8. The German government is failing completely in their handling

of this problem. The people are getting pissed at the cover ups and the wishy washy nature of law enforcement against the migrants. I was hoping for the cooperation of the local mosques in dealing with it, but I can see that it's not going to happen.
So now we're going to see a stark contrast between the current power and the right wing that's eager as hell to take over. On one side, you're seeing the cover up and the lack of desire to paint immigrants as bad, and on the other you get the message of protecting the women of Germany no matter what. Who are the voters going to pick?

[jwirr]

29. Okay. So the press cannot carry the story. Is there any

reason that it cannot get out into the public the same way we get Bernie's story out here? The internet?

[christx30]

39. Well, we're doing it right now.

Reblog this, get it on your twitter, send people the link on your facebook. We don't have as many restrictions on free speech that Germany does, so there is no fear of telling the truth.
Get this in front of as many faces as you can.

[branford]

50. It's unclear if carrying such a story, by itself or with similar stories,

would result in prosecution or conviction under Germany's (or much of Europe's) anti-hate speech laws.

However, the fact that they might or could potentially be prosecuted is in itself a very strong disincentive to publish.

I also noted the very different political and media culture in Europe. These stories strongly favor the right-of-center political parties, many of whom are quite radical, and many media outlets will kill or downplay stories simply to protect political allies in liberal governments in a manner far more egregious than anything in the USA. However, as has become apparent when the stories can no longer be suppressed and reach a critical popular mass, the governments face even larger criticisms of cover-ups along with the initial incompetence.

[DFW]

186. Do you think we're completely uninformed just due to bureaucratic incompetence?

In Germany, we've heard about everything that happened, whether it shows up in the papers or on the TV news or not. We have access to the British and American press, as well as everything on the internet. The Internet stuff is, of course, all over the place, from apologetic ("tolerance for all the poor foreigners&quot to full fury (deport all that espouse the faith of the perpetrators, etc. etc).

Actually, any hate preacher from another country SHOULD be deported, no matter what his faith or origin. I'd say the same thing if Ted Cruz's dad or Pat Robertson came to Germany preaching their own version. SOME people will always take what these hate preachers say literally, and act thinking God has condoned their actions.

[smirkymonkey]

59. And claiming that women are responsible for their own rapes ISN'T hate speech?

WTF? The concerns of the citizens and the taxpayers should take precedence over those of the immigrants and refugees. It's bullshit that they should have to put up with this shit AND remain silent about it.

[christx30]

60. And pay for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141316324

[branford]

64. I agree.

However, Caucasian German women citizens are sadly not usually considered minorities in need of protection.

The issue also really isn't about hate speech, rather it's protection of the incumbent German government against democratic electoral reprisals if the population perceives its refugee and immigration policies are a dangerous failure. The hate speech laws are just being used as a political tool against the opposition and a convenient excuse by allies in supportive European liberal media outlets.

[840high]

86. Correct. +10

[tabasco]

6. That was probably Mohammed's excuse

when he raped a nine-year old girl.

[7962]

9. Some here would give you a hide for that

even though I believe its historically accurate

[christx30]

11. And get you jailed and fined

if you said that in Germany. Which is what's wrong with their speech laws.

[Reter]

126. And killed in Saudi Arabia

The world is so backwards.

[totodeinhere]

12. Why would anyone vote to hide a historical fact?

n/t

[cheapdate]

53. Jesus of Nazareth cured leprosy, too. Also a fact.

[7962]

68. I doubt you'd get a hide for that, since its not illicit to cure leprosy.

[cheapdate]

70. The Imam is clearly a Muslim and clearly an asshole.

His idiotic opinions are completely indefensible. Neither Allah nor Jesus are any more "divine" than you or I. Cruel and oppressive interpretations of Islam are the norm in large parts of the world. What else?

[7962]

80. Well, marrying a 9 yr old should be frowned upon

The bad thing is what you said; the oppressive interpretations of Islam in large parts of the world is the NORM, not the exception. Its because so much of it is IN their book and their laws

[cheapdate]

82. To be clear, you're talking about a "wedding" from 1,400 years ago?

[7962]

85. I'm referring to the fact that they're doing it TODAY in MANY countries,

even Canada, where they've spread their virus of oppression.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28250471
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/girls-treated-cattle-child-brides-divide-pakistan-n65956
refusal to outlaw child brides:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/pakistan-child-marriage-160118062004700.html

Dozens of examples all over the world. Yet we worry about not being sensitive to their needs & feelings. Horseshit

[cheapdate]

91. Child marriage is allowed by the state in Canada? No f&%king way.

[7962]

97. Of course its not allowed. Provincially; but there isnt an actual national law.

Believe it or not! They take girls out & force them to marry
Here's an article about Canada fighting child brides around the world and they also refer to 100 cases of girls in Ontario who had it happen to them

[cheapdate]

98. And here's an article that says Atlanta is one of the leading

cities in the country for human trafficking and forced underage prostitution. 100 to 200 girls a month forced into prostitution. What's your point?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/17/us/child-sex-trafficking-update-hansen/

http://www.cbs46.com/story/24425994/human-trafficking-brutal-and-widespread-in-georgia

[7962]

120. Two totally different subjects; but does Islam also allow prostitution? Why, yes, it does!

Glad you brought that up! Its called "Muta".
Were the people in atlanta muslim? I seriously doubt it from what I've seen. But while prostitution is illegal in the US, it IS allowed under Islam as "temporary marriage".
Yet another perversion of Islam spread across the globe.

[cheapdate]

132. The subject was the despicable beliefs of a German Imam,

the deplorable interpretations of Islam advocated by a great many Muslims around the world, and the widespread epidemic of sexual abuse and oppression taking place right here at home right now. What else?

[7962]

133. The fact that both are accepted as part of the Islamic religion.

Other than that, I dont know if youre headed somewhere else

[cheapdate]

135. Yes, both practices are widely accepted in various interpretations of Islam.

Seems like we're on the same page.

[philosslayer]

166. Historical facts are frequently hidden

Especially if they are not relevant to the conversation, or seek to inflame a thread

[totodeinhere]

168. I can understand the irrelevance part. But how can stating a fact be inflammatory?

If it happened it happened. Why would anyone want to cover it up? Or are we a bunch of delicate wallflowers around here who can't handle the truth?

[philosslayer]

170. This is a "public" enterprise where posts are judged by a random group of participants

If you post a fact that is possibly offensive, or judged to be irrelevant and/or inflammatory, even if it IS a fact, it can be hidden if 4 out of 7 jury members deem it hide-worthy.

[Dr. Strange]

187. Well...

...are we a bunch of delicate wallflowers around here who can't handle the truth?

I think you'll find a very nonempty set of such wallflowers here, yes.

[MariaThinks]

52. there are people putting their heads into the sand and hoping that all the islamic

radicalism will go away if we just keep giving them what they want (unfortunately that would be the death of every nonbeliever in their religion and extreme view of it as well).

[smirkymonkey]

56. They are fools.

Their inaction is going to come back to bite them in the ass, mark my words.

[7962]

69. Absolutely right. I've been saying it since this flood started.

They will NOT, as a whole, want to change their way of life when they flood into their new countries. Certainly SOME of them will gladly westernize themselves. But the majority wont
And as you say, its going to bite them in the ass. Its already started

[smirkymonkey]

74. You are absolutely right. Not all of them are bad, but too many of them refuse to

accept Western rules and mores. They wish to impose their cultural norms on us rather than assimilating. That will never work. This is just a major shitshow. It will not turn out well.

[MariaThinks]

144. i don't even care if someone assimilates, just don't try to impose sharia law on everyone

[TipTok]

177. That's just as bad...

They must assimilate or they can't be functioning and contributing members of society...

[840high]

89. +1

[guillaumeb]

156. Think about this:

do you think that perhaps the inconvenient fact that the US (and other western countries ) is invading, bombing, drone attacking, overthrowing governments, and otherwise showing no respect for Muslims might have a tiny bit to do with the fact that many Muslims do not trust the US?

Even a cursory reading of the history of the Middle East will show that the western colonial powers have treated the area as just another area for resource extraction. Even the boundaries of these countries were drawn by European colonialists. So when people talk about the why, perhaps some historical knowledge will help understand motivation.

[MariaThinks]

158. No. The US did not make Pakistan attack India

[MariaThinks]

159. When the British separated India and Pakistan

why is it that almost all minorities were killed by the muslims while hundreds of millions of muslims were allowed to remain in India.?

[guillaumeb]

161. Your question, while a good one, presupposes that England had a right to separate

and create nations. England and France basically drew up the boundaries of the Middle East. Search the term "Sykes-Picot" and see what you find. And then explain to me under what law Western colonial powers can decide for everyone what national boundaries will be allowed.

One example is the fact that the Kurds, a linguistically and ethnically distinct people, are divided among four different countries. This was done by European imperialists for political reasons. The result of this division has been 70 years of ethnic conflict.

[MariaThinks]

169. the fact is they did not. My point was about what happened between the muslims and the hindus in

both resulting countries.

[guillaumeb]

171. England controlled India until it was forced out.

But the boundaries were drawn by England. And what of my other points?

As to your claim,

The Radcliffe Line was published on 17 August 1947 as a boundary demarcation line between India and Pakistan upon the Partition of India. It was named after its architect, Sir Cyril Radcliffe, who, as chairman of the Border Commissions, was charged with equitably dividing 175,000 square miles (450,000 km2) of territory with 88 million people.[1] Today its western side still serves as the Indo-Pakistani border and the eastern side serves as the India-Bangladesh border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radcliffe_Line

A simple search would have told you this.

While you read the full citation, I will wait for your responses to my other points, heretofore unaddressed by you.

[MariaThinks]

173. great for your research, but you ignored my original point. Who gives a shit

who drew the line - what's it was done, how did the muslims and hindus behave? The muslims killed most of the minorities - they certainly are not living in Pakistan - a simple google search will prove that. Meanwhile, India has hundreds of millions of muslims living there able to freely practice their religion under the protection of a democratic government.

[guillaumeb]

174. Can I take your "who gives a shit..."

as meaning that you truly have no concern for history? If so, I understand why you are so confused as to why people are doing things in places that may be far from you. But your ignorance of history is a reason why you do not understand exactly what is happening.

The terrible events of 13 November in Paris are the work of a tiny fraction of the Muslim community. But those events, terrible as they were, pale in comparison to what the French have done, and are currently doing, in the Middle East and Africa. And when people do not understand the history, and worse, do not care about the history, those same people tend to understand violence by a few Muslims as being the entire story. As if there were no history of French colonial terror, no past and current slaughter of Africans and Middle Easterners by French troops.


Finally, are you aware that ever since the original partition, there actually has been continued friction and violence in India? Violence that comes from both sides?

[MariaThinks]

175. you won't answer my point at all.

[guillaumeb]

178. The answer to your question is that violence is bad.

Now, what of my numerous points about the history of the conflict?

And what about state violence? Do you believe that it is acceptable for the US to engage in drone warfare in many countries? A warfare that has killed thousands of civilians?

[MariaThinks]

180. that's a nonanswer but i'll answer your questions

1. the British ruled the region now known as India and Pakistan. They created an apartheid system. Gandhi forced a situation where the british had to evacuate

2. Muhammad Ali Jinnah wanted a separation based on religion and India and Pakistan were designated territories

3. Based on religion, people in the territory known as Pakistan were murdered by the muslim majorities

4. in India, the muslim minority was allowed to stay and prosper.



We have a right to use drone technology to protect our interests around the world. The radical muslims have killed hundreds of thousands in the past 2 decades and the drone attacks have saved more civilian lives than they are claimed. When the West has tried to help, by taking refugees, we end up getting attached by more than a few refugees. The conflict in Syria was caused by a muslim leader and muslim rebellion groups - including the Islamic republic.

[guillaumeb]

182. I would add on thing to your list:

5) the situation in Bangladesh modifies number 4.

The US claims, and has always claimed, to have interests around the world. If any other country made a similar claim that claim would be rejected by the US. So we have a double standard wherein the US can do what it wishes. If that is your belief I accept that it is your belief, but International Law prohibits many things that the US does. There is an advantage to having the biggest military.

Many of the refugees ARE refugees because of Western interference. The present day conflict in the Middle East is all about control of oil. From the first CIA sponsored overthrow of an elected Iranian President in 1953 through the sanctions against Iraq, through the various wars, all are about oil. Look up PNAC, the Project for a New American Century, and read about how Cheney, Bush, et.al. were scheming to find a pretext for war so that they could control Iraq's oil.

[MariaThinks]

183. Bangladesh happened because east Pakistan refugees were

pouring into India due to interference from West Pakistan.

the Syrian refugees today are caused by a muslim dictator and muslim rebels.

if you want to go back in time, how many mogul emperors murdered people if they did not convert to islam? Pakistan is filled with the descendants of hindus who converted to islam after their other villagers were beheaded (the same approach that Islamic republic uses today).

[guillaumeb]

184. The "how many" argument as a comparison for which

group has been more persecuted never ends. Religion, and nationality, and language have always been used to divide people. Cain killed Abel and the rest is history.

But when talking about the situation in Cologne, the actual post, I pointed out to another poster that rape is something that affects all women in all countries. Interestingly enough, the US is ranked second on the lost for rape violence. Perhaps violence in general contributes to rape violence. If that is so, perhaps someone could study/correlate this.

I also pointed out that there are womens groups in Germany that have complained about rape violence for years, predating the Muslim refugees, and that the violence is perpetrated by men. All types of men, and at similar rates. When I pointed these things out my statistics were dismissed without any attempt at a counterargument.

[MariaThinks]

185. your argument is what trump would use against black people marching and

saying 'black lives matter' and trump would say 'all lives matter'.

it's a way to diffuse the impact - 'nothing to see here'.

btw - some idiot makes a stupid movie about islam and puts it on youtube. muslims riot all over the world and kill innocent people. Who's at fault? The west because we allow freedom of expression. And if it is the west, isn't it just a few nutjobs who put stupid movies together? And isn't it just a few drones? A few drones that kills thousands of innocent civilians.

Also, the west has been taking refugees in and trying to support them. Where are the muslim countries being generous with the refugees. Surely, Saudi Arabia alone could take in all the Syrian refugees. Why aren't they? Or Pakistan? Or the Emerites? All the refugees could be given homes in a small combination of the muslim countries.

[guillaumeb]

189. While we disagree on some matters, the exchange has been interesting.

I believe in freedom of speech. If you wish to make a movie, or draw a cartoon, that is your right. But sometimes the line between free expression and incitement is very blurry. My comment about the reaction in France to the exhibition of "Piss Christ" is an example of how people, even in the enlightened West, can react to free speech.


But as to your last paragraph:

Also, the west has been taking refugees in and trying to support them. Where are the muslim countries being generous with the refugees. Surely, Saudi Arabia alone could take in all the Syrian refugees. Why aren't they? Or Pakistan? Or the Emerites? All the refugees could be given homes in a small combination of the muslim countries.

the West, and Israel, by its actions in the Middle East, has been creating refugees. Millions of refugees are Palestinians who were driven from Palestine by the Israelis since 1948. Millions of Syrians have left Syria because of the violence there, a violence that is partly encouraged and facilitated by the US and Europe.

Rather than ask why Muslim countries do not take in Muslim refugees, why not ask why Israel and the West are allowed to create refugees?

[MariaThinks]

190. your last point - the syrian refugees are being created by muslims.

Refugees from Yemen are created by Saudi Arabia and Iran.

I guess some people just find it easier to blame Israel for everything. It must be one incredibly powerful but tiny country to be able to cause chaos all over the world.

Show me major violence in the world today, and it is usually some radicalized muslim group taking responsibility - from Africa, Middle East (Syria, Iran), to attacks by muslims in the US, France, Denmark, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Australia, Canada, Spain - too many countries for me to remember.

If islam is the religion of peace and forbids killing of people, why are so many muslims radicalized when they become more religious and why are they killing people randomly or deliberately around the world. Shouldn't they be afraid of the afterlife? Instead many think that killing innocent people will send them to heaven while the opposite is undoubtedly true.

Invading Iraq was a criminal act on bush's part. But what muslim terrorists did on 911 is not excusable either. The problem was in afganistan and that's where bush needed to focus. But i believe bush is a criminal as well.

[MariaThinks]

179. the radical muslims 'few' are killing

innocent people around the world each and everyday. And no, they do not pale in comparison to what the French are doing - and interesting that you would use that example as the attack was in paris.

apparently, having someone say that you tore up a page in the Koran can get you stoned to death, or if someone accuses you of adultery, the woman can also be stoned to death, by the few.

[guillaumeb]

181. The US military kills innocent people around the world every day.

There are always casualties when the Empire goes about its business.

The difference between state terror and non-state terror is that state terror occurs on an enormous scale. But the corporate media chooses to focus on non-state terror, the better to frighten citizens into accepting more war spending.

So you are aware of what the French are doing in Mali, and Cote D'Ivoire, and Yemen, and many other places? That is good. Now, which type of violence is worse, in your opinion? Is it better to be shot by a fanatic in Paris, or killed by a drone strike in Yemen?


Finally, in the US there is an artist, Andres Serrano, who exhibited a piece called "piss Christ". The piece was a crucifix immersed in the artist's urine. The piece was briefly exhibited before threats came in and the exhibit stopped after the piece was destroyed by Christian protesters. Read :

When New York artist Andres Serrano plunged a plastic crucifix into a glass of his own urine and photographed it in 1987 under the title Piss Christ, he said he was making a statement on the misuse of religion.

Controversy has followed the work ever since, but reached an unprecedented peak on Palm Sunday when it was attacked with hammers and destroyed after an "anti-blasphemy" campaign by French Catholic fundamentalists in the southern city of Avignon.
The violent slashing of the picture, and another Serrano photograph of a meditating nun, has plunged secular France into soul-searching about Christian fundamentalism and Nicolas Sarkozy's use of religious populism in his bid for re-election next year.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/18/andres-serrano-piss-christ-destroyed-christian-protesters

And yes, it was interesting that I used the example of French colonialism because the destruction of the piece happened in Avignon. Just as anti-Muslim hatred is being encouraged in France by the fascist politician Marine LePen. Do you feel that perhaps the hatred being encouraged by LePen, a hatred shared by her followers in the FN, could possibly contribute to the situation?

[FrodosPet]

20. But there were important political reasons he did that

So apparently it was OK then.

[crim son]

7. The "men" he refers to are nothing more than animals, apparently.

I'd be embarrassed to suggest that all it takes is a whiff of perfume to turn my people into a pack of horny goats.

[7962]

10. Really. No one I know. Such nonsense we hear!! nt

[jberryhill]

13. Well, Mr. Abu-Yusuf, speaking of inflammatory and provocative behavior...

[awoke_in_2003]

14. Deport his ass...

back to the shit hole he came from.

[smirkymonkey]

57. +1000

I agree - this is hate speech. Just as denying the Holocaust is.

[Stryder]

15. Just

Just dropped in to say,
Imam Sami Abu-Yusuf ....
Go Fuck Yusuf.

[Beacool]

16. I think that European governments should make it clear to refugees

that they are welcome in their land as long as they follow local laws. Anyone who steals, assaults, rapes, etc. will be summarily deported to their countries of origin. If they are so tough, then they can go fight their own wars in their own land. They should start with that Imam.

[FairWinds]

17. WAIT A MINUTE !!

Brietbart as a source? For a Zionist paper?

Why would any of you believe what they report?

You are being played for suckers.

[branford]

18. Google is your friend.

Look to the original cited source and the other articles with the same report.

If you've followed the numerous threads on this issue, one of the primary discussions is the conflict between multiculturalism / cultural relativism vs. feminism and basic safety, criticism by many on the left that our regular news sources refuse to report on the matter because its politically inconvenient, and that ultimately this refusal supports right-wing positions and candidates.

http://ren.tv/novosti/2016-01-17/imam-mecheti-v-kyolne-poyasnil-chto-bezhency-nasiluyut-nemok-iz-za-ih-priyatnogo

https://news.google.com/news/story?cf=all&hl=en&pz=1&ned=us&q=Imam+Sami+Abu-Yusuf&cf=all&ncl=dNJI3ChuSLUA1yMTjQndBw2j_f6AM&scoring=d

As for your comment about Zionism, you really need to read the actual Democratic Party Platform about Israel.

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

The only "sucker" is you if you cannot perform your own basic research or refuse to believe anything unless it conforms to your preconceived notions.

[FairWinds]

19. So the DP Platform says we cannot . .

criticize Israel? Really?

Brietbart cited on DU? Really?

I would caution Dem Underground readers to
be highly skeptical of this toxic stew.

Veterans For Peace

[7962]

21. You actually see "dont criticize Israel" in the DP Platform? Where?

The administration has criticized Israel many times for some of their actions
And maybe you should refer to post #4 for a reason this story isnt published more widespread. Here's other links I found for you if you like:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3408033/Muslim-cleric-says-Cologne-sex-attacks-victims-fault-wore-PERFUME.html

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cologne-sex-attacks-imam-claims-women-wearing-perfume-provoked-360-assaults-by-north-africans-1539509
http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/01/19/cologne-attacks-this-is-sexual-terrorism-directed-towards-women/

MAybe be more concerned about the actual story, since its real?

[branford]

58. Criticize Israel all you want.

However, you didn't address my points at all.

The primary source interview with the imam is available and numerous outlets carried the story. You need only have exerted the barest modicum of effort to confirm the validity of the story. It does not become invalid or untrue because it was also carried by Breitbart, it's politically inconvenient, or you simply don't like story. In fact, one of the primary issues concerning the refuges is the unwillingness of more liberal outlets, particularly in Europe, to cover entirely accurate and important stories because they support political opposition to liberal government multicultural policies, often at the expense of equally liberal feminist positions and basic citizen safety. Many liberals and Democrats see the real "toxic stew" as purportedly left-wing governments abandoning core ideals such as gender equality and safety of their female citizens in order to insulate themselves from the anticipated democratic political retribution by citizens who believe their refugee and immigration policies are dangerous failures.

Further, your original snark concerned "Zionism," not just criticism of Israeli policy. The Democratic Platform certainly permits criticism of specific Israeli policies (and the policies of the USA and other countries), something done by actual Israelis and Americans across the political spectrum. However, Zionism, i.e., the political support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel, is in fact the long established and widely supported position of the Democratic Party, and universally accepted as a political matter in American politics except for a very small and extreme fringe.

[leftynyc]

41. Are you truly denying this happened

when several sources have already been posted? And you whining about a Zionist newspaper is shows us all we need to know. Too bad for you, the story is true and this iman is a piece of crap.

[840high]

90. Leave the comfort of

DU and educate yourself.

[FairWinds]

109. OK,more information is coming out on this propaganda . .

I continue to call Bull Shit !!

[Lucky Luciano]

22. In other future news, German Imam justifies his own severe beating for talking shit. nt

[christx30]

23. No kidding.

His side needs the support of the German people more than ever right now. And then he drops this kind of nonsense.
The right honestly doesn't need to much at this point to win. Just point at crap like this, and they're in.

[smirkymonkey]

62. *snort*

Touche!

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

24. Then they are rabid animals, not human beings. (apologies to non-human species).

[Yo_Mama]

25. What's funniest about this is that no one is half-naked in Germany on New Year's Eve

Even during a warm spell, they are covered.

So it must be the perfume!!!!

The WILES OF SATAN.

Yes, there are imams in Europe preaching this crap. All over.

[smirkymonkey]

63. I also read today that they think the Germans need to ban alcohol because they think it

was the reason for the NYE incident. Can you imagine Germany banning alcohol? That is the heighth of arrogance to insist that an entire country ban alcohol because the men of your culture can't control themselves after a few drinks.

[christx30]

73. Backing up your post:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3411641/Germans-ban-ALCOHOL-want-prevent-sex-attacks-help-North-Africans-integrate-says-Muslim-group.html

'You cannot expect to chuck a naked antelope in front of a lion and not expect it to react. It is mind boggling that with so much time spent teaching children about sex at school, they completely forget to pass on this basic biological fact.'

So ladies, you hear that? You're not human to these groups of refugees. You're prey.

[Yo_Mama]

87. Not, I think, to most, but the fact that this sort of thing is openly said in Europe

makes my blood boil.

That is the problem with all these fools saying that we shouldn't talk about what happened because it is prejudicial to Muslims. They talk, and they claim they have the freedom of speech to do so.

It cannot be just one way, and that is what we are being told.

[Yo_Mama]

84. Yes, I read some of that in German interviews.

But really, alcohol is hardly the only intoxicant out there.

[bkkyosemite]

26. Castrate those men who think it okay to rape, mutilate and

kill women because they think they are owners of them and it's okay with their god. Pathetic assholes.

[Mufaddal]

27. Yeah, he's a horrible human being

Much like those bigots responding with their own hot takes in this thread. Congrats on being cut from the same cloth.

[christx30]

30. It's not bigorty to say

that someone that believes a rape a woman's fault doesn't belong in western civilization. No one on this thread is saying anything negative about Muslims or refugees. We're saying that this piece of crap needs to either get on the "rape is bad and unacceptable" bandwagon, or get the hell back to a place where it is ok and acceptable.

[Mufaddal]

32. I think you misunderstood

or I did not communicate my point clearly enough. I am not saying people who condemn him are bigots; I just condemned him myself. I'm more referring to this kind of garbage: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1321471

[christx30]

33. Is it a historical fact? Yes.

Is it detestable, no matter the time it occurred? Yes.
It's like saying people that bought slaves in the 1800's (and before) weren't doing anything wrong because it was legal at the time.
All of it is wrong, no matter when it happened. Again, not bigotry, because Muhammed did take a child as a bride. And it's why child brides are a huge part of that culture right now.

[Mufaddal]

35. It's actually been the subject of long dispute among Muslim scholars

but by all means, select the narrative most convenient to you. Back to my initial point, there's certainly some anti-Muslim animosity in this thread, and I find it troubling. People are free to agree or disagree.

EDIT: Another prime example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1322052

[christx30]

37. The Imam is saying that it's ok to rape women

that are wearing perfume. So I think Golgo_13's response is actually kind of understated, but 100% justified.
A Muslim Imam is a very powerful person in a community. He could help his people understand that the rules in the West are different, and they need to adapt or return to the backwards part of the world where women are subjected to this kind of crap, gays are pushed out of buildings to their deaths. But he has chosen to say that the rape is justified. He puts a huge target on his back, and all the Muslim migrants. Saying that it's ok gives the right all the ammo they need. "See? It's not a minority of them doing it! It's intuitional to them!"
Things aren't 100% equal here, but we are light years beyond the Middle East.

[Mufaddal]

40. Again, that's some nice liberal racism

"return to the backwards part of the world"

"Things aren't 100% equal here, but we are light years beyond the Middle East."

Classy.

"A Muslim Imam is a very powerful person in a community."

You're also overstating the case for an imam's authority, especially in the Sunni community. For most people it's just the guy who leads the congregational prayers.

For what it's worth, I'm a seminary student and Islamic scholar who studied and lived in Iraq. But hey, what would I know about the subject. You're clearly the expert.

Regardless, I've made my point. Sad that Muslim-bashing is tolerated here.

[leftynyc]

42. Are you a woman?

If so, would you rather live in the west or in a country ruled by sharia law where a piece of crap iman like this one makes the rules for you? Not all cultures are equal. Sorry if that hurts your sensibilities.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

114. Mufaddel is a male name

Usually, from what I understand.

[leftynyc]

139. Thanks

That explains that. I've been very blessed in my life to have men - family and friends and even employers (most with daughters) - who are some of the biggest feminists I know. I know EXACTLY how they would have answered that question.

[christx30]

47. Condoning that behavior is backwards.

There is no nice way of saying it. It's the way Europe was 700 years ago. Should we have to wait for 700 years for the Mid East to catch up with us in Womens rights?
And when I say that we aren't 100% great, I mean that we just got marriage equality legalized fully last year, and there are still people fighting tooth and nail against it. There are still people fighting against reproductive health. But we are getting better faster than ever.

And I never said that the Imam has a ton of authority. But he has some, certainly more than the average Mosque goer. He can stand up for German women and say that rape and other forms of sexual assault are wrong and need to stop. But he chose to say that all is good. This is a cultural problem. It's not just them not knowing which fork to use at dinner. It's a serious issue that is fundamental living in a free society.

I've made my point. Sad that anti-women rhetoric is condoned here. So I guess in the name of kindness to the refugees and multiculturalism, women should just be willing to take one for the team, huh?

[smirkymonkey]

188. +1000

nt

[7962]

49. If you're an Islamic scholar, then you probably already know whats allowed.

I'm sure you can somehow come up with a reason why such a high percentage of Muslims throughout the world believe that Sharia law SHOULD be the law. And as long as thats the case, then I'm sorry, but yes, its backwards 3rd world thinking.
Dont move to a country that doesnt allow that nonsense and think that said country should change to suit YOUR (generalization, not YOU specifically) wishes and beliefs.
It really is that simple.

[awoke_in_2003]

88. Anyone who blames rape on the victim

is an animal to be shunned, regardless their religion (or lack thereof). Same thing goes with Holocaust deniers.

[guillaumeb]

102. Nice to read some sanity here.

Muslim hatred and generalized Islamophobia seems to be positively encouraged here. I posted down thread about this in #55, and #96, and others.

What is being said here was said 50 years ago about blacks. That type of racism would be hidden at DU but apparently Muslims are the new blacks in the US.

Sad also that a religion of peace, tolerance, and equalitycan be so mischaracterized in this way.

Welcome to DU. All are welcome here. Perhaps you would consider posting about Islam.

Peace

Guillaume B

PS I am a Christian, but I agree with the Prophet that we are all indeed people of the Book.

[Mufaddal]

110. Thanks for the welcome

Pleasure to make your acquaintance. Sadly the religion groups look either dead or full of New Atheist trolling. And yeah, you can basically get away with saying whatever you want when it comes to Islam, even in progressive circles, and everyone with access to Google and some Bill Maher clips is suddenly an expert on the subject. It's disappointing, but just where the world is at right now.

Thanks again.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

115. You have very few posts.

Hang around for the much deserved christian bashing.

This is an equal opportunity fundamentalist bashing site, and with good reason.

Fundamentalist religion is not liked here. I think I can safely speak for most of us (not all).

[Mufaddal]

117. Very few posts because I just joined.

Hence the welcome message to which I was responding.

And yes, I've noticed the implosion of tolerance here, but thanks for the cryptic warning and just generally acting like a creeper. Reminds me of every other hillbilly in a movie with a "we don't take kindly to yer kind 'round these parts" line.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

121. I am not tolerant of any religion that is not supportive

of women's rights. I am not a hillbilly, but I am a feminist, and I live in the fourth largest city in the U.S.

I know or am acquainted with a number of Muslims and ex-Muslims, but the one thing they all have in common is that they are all - at least - somewhat progressive with regards to women's rights. Unfortunately, the migrants entering Europe right now will mostly be of the fundamentalist type.

And by the way, I fully support our country taking in fully vetted families from out of the horrible refugee camps. We are a large enough country that forty or fifty thousand refugees won't affect our culture one way or another. The situation in Europe is completely different, though - a majority of young men pushing there way into Europe with absolutely no vetting, some no papers, some false papers. Sorry, but that's a disaster in the making.

[Mufaddal]

125. K thanks for the reductionist views and inductive reasoning

It's been a real treat to meet the expert, especially one who definitely sounds nothing like many Trump and Carson supporters.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

128. Not expert. Just not in denial, either.

Fundamentalist muslims have far, far more in common with right wing, fundamentalist christian republicans on social issues than I ever will. If I'm not politically correct enough to refrain from saying so - well - tough.

And one more thing - there's quite a few feminists on here who will not be intimidated by your stupid comparisons.

[Mufaddal]

129. That's cool

I appreciate your honesty in letting me know there's a "Muslims Need Not Register" sign hanging on DU (or perhaps "Only the 'Right Kind' of Muslims Welcome&quot .

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

130. Fundamentalists! Fundamentalists of all stripes.

Surely, you understand the distinction. And fundamentalists are surely welcome to participate here - just don't expect a lot of support for regressive views on social issues - especially women's rights.

Peace.

[snooper2]

191. Which holy book would you like me to quote bullshit from, I'll let you pick first

[guillaumeb]

116. The religion groups do have non-believers who post.

I welcome it because it gives me a chance to make my points. I am no expert, not even close, on Islam. I studied it with my children (we were homeschoolers) when we studied the Abrahamic religions.

I made a point at my church that there is nothing in the teachings of the Prophet (that I have read) that contradicts the teachings of Jesus. My statement was received with some hostility, but I suggested some readings and some members of the church agreed that the Prophet and Jesus are actually quite similar in outlet.

Keep talking and post from some sites if you feel it will help. Only knowledge can fight fear and ignorance.

[FrodosPet]

138. Jesus supported punitive amputations and beheadings?

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033

005.038

As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012

008.012

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

[guillaumeb]

148. Are you saying that only followers of Islam engaged in these practices?

Amputations, beheadings, torture, were all practiced by western countries into the 17th century. Christian western countries. As were forced conversions. These punishments were considered to be just.

The US, a professed Christian country, engaged in nuclear warfare, genocide, and torture many times in its history.

So your point is?

[FrodosPet]

150. Wow! Total question avoidance!

1. I never claimed that only followers of Islam engaged in those practices.

2. I never claimed Christians did not engage in those practices.

I asked the question, "Jesus supported punitive amputations and beheadings?"

It is a straightforward question. You made a declarative statement: "I made a point at my church that there is nothing in the teachings of the Prophet (that I have read) that contradicts the teachings of Jesus."

I asked you to back up the claim with evidence that Jesus has similar teachings regarding punitive amputations and beheadings. I did not ask whether the assholes who claim to follow him supported them.

My point is, these terrible things ARE Islamic to people who hold an absolutist view of the primary scriptures of Islam. A lack of western purity does NOT remove our right to recognize and criticize non-western bad ideas.

[guillaumeb]

151. By your reply,

I asked you to back up the claim with evidence that Jesus has similar teachings regarding punitive amputations and beheadings. I did not ask whether the assholes who claim to follow him supported them.

I will dare to guess that you are a non-believer. Your characterization of Christians as "the assholes who claim to follow him" exposes your uncritically judgmental attitude. What would be the point in attempting to debate with someone who already knows the truth? Whatever you believe that truth to be.

[FrodosPet]

153. Yes, I am an ex-Christian. That does not mean I disrespect respectable Christians or Muslims

I don't hate Christians. I don't hate Muslims. I don't hate Dominionists or ISIL or any other humans. I don't like how hate makes me feel, so I don't do it.

I do hate the effects of people's ideas and ideology. And I am tired of burying my opinion that just so some people who refuse to look spherically won't wag their finger at me. I fear the effect that violent interpretations of each of those religions has on innocent people trying to live and love. The military and political effects, AND the direct threats of violence and oppression.

Can I pretty much assume at this point that you are going to totally avoid my original question, "Jesus supported punitive amputations and beheadings?"

[guillaumeb]

154. As an ex-Christian, you are probably familiar with what Jesus said

about judgment and violence, and war, and rich people. So I will not waste pixels. But the Koran, like the Bible, is not always consistent in message.

The Prophet talked about equal respect for women, and tolerance, and peaceful solutions:

I wonder how many men and women nowadays can digest the idea of calling Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) a "feminist".

That is, a feminist in the sense of one who always stood for the rights of women. In fact, he was just that, though the term applied to the Prophet could sound a bit quaint or anachronistic.

In a cultural milieu where baby girls were buried alive and wives were treated no better than chattel, the Prophet courageously liberated them and raised their status to equal that of men.

Muslims see Muhammad as living up to his God-appointed mission as the final messenger of God, standing up like a titan towering above the barbaric influences of the time to become the spiritual leader of the whole Muslim nation in Arabia as well as everywhere else Islam reached.

"The most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman."

- Prophet Muhammad

http://www.usislam.org/IslamicYouth/Muhammad/prophet_and_women_in_islam.htm

Islam represented a massive change in thinking about women. That there are some Muslims who do not follow the words of the Prophet is not an indictment of the Prophet, but of his followers.

As to tolerance:

The dealings of the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, with other religions can best be described in the verse of the Quran:

“To you be your religion, to me be mine.”

The Arabian Peninsula during the time of the Prophet was a region in which various faiths were present. There were Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, polytheists, and others not affiliated with any religion. When one looks into the life of the Prophet, one may draw on many examples to portray the high level of tolerance shown to people of other faiths.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/207/viewall/tolerance-of-prophet-towards-other-religions/

I do not know if you are aware that the Koran, like the Bible, was passed down orally until it was later written. It was written over many years, and again like the Bible, there are other writings that must be read with it.

[7962]

123. If defending rape, child marriage & prostitution is "sanity", I'll pass.

because all of those are condoned under Islam. Nice try though

The comparison to the treatment of blacks is about as weak as you can get. Certainly some "back in the day" attempted to use the bible to justify discrimination, but it was a failed theory.
And the laws were changed years ago making blacks as equal as anyone else, making discrimination illegal.
Compare that to Pakistan just recently (last year) refusing to criminalize child brides!!
Lets see how long it takes for Islam to renounce the sexist, misogynist acts that are plainly allowed in THEIR laws.

[FrodosPet]

137. As an Islamic scholar, can you tell us what non-Muslims should think about these passages?

Qu'ran

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.190

002.190

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

002.191

And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

002.216

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033

005.033

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

005.038

As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012

008.012

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

008.038

Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).

008.039

And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

008.060

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005

009.005

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

009.014

Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

009.029

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

009.123

O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/017-qmt.php#017.016

017.016

When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly.

Hadiths

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.177

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 179:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 182:
Narrated 'Ali:

When it was the day of the battle of Al-Ahzab (i.e. the clans), Allah's Apostle said, "O Allah! Fill their (i.e. the infidels') houses and graves with fire as they busied us so much that we did not perform the prayer (i.e. 'Asr) till the sun set."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:
Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4321

Book 019, Number 4321:

It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4294

Book 019, Number 4294:

It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.

[smirkymonkey]

76. I think they need to crack down on the source of the problem, which is the radical

Imams. Deport them and close the mosques. This is hate speech clearly. It should not be tolerated, no more than Holocaust denial should be tolerated. If they ignore this in the name of PC multiculturalism, they will end up regretting it. The extreme factions of Isalamism want to destroy western society and all they need is for us to allow it.

[christx30]

79. And the right will take advantage of the

government's waffling on this, and the public's anger. And that's going to be even worse for the refugees.

[7962]

124. Should have been done long ago, but they wont do it. I dont know why.

In England they have their leading hate monger, Anjem Choudary, who is also actually getting the British version of welfare!
Its a bad road they're going down

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

112. Yeah, there's anti-Muslim sentiment on this thread

That's because there's anti-fundamentalist sentiment on DU.

And rightly so! I can't stand any fundamentalist crap that makes women second class citizens.

Sorry, but any religion that allows a man to take four wives is going to be misogynist, sexist, and just damn awful for a lot of women.

The "saving grace" of fundamentalist christianity despite its numerous faults is the fact that men are allowed only one wife. I believe it is this difference that allowed much of christianity to move towards modernity in respect to women.

[840high]

93. Truth is not bigotry.

[Bradical79]

31. How big a following does he have?

I'm curious if he's more Phelps or Robertson.

[MosheFeingold]

36. Putting aside the source issue

Rape of "infidel women" is OK, under pretty much all fundamental branches of Islam.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women-in-order-to-humiliate-them-claims-islamic-professor_1846312.html

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam

There was a recent release from a school in Saudi -- very respected in Islam, the rough equivalent of say, the Vatican, that agreed that rape of non-Muslim women was perfectly fine. I'd find the link, but don't have the time.

Obviously, most of the Muslims in the USA and Europe are not of that mindset or doctrine, but that is not the case.

I posted previously that it is a serious moral quandary. I abhor findings of group fault. But it is also stupid and unfair to women, Jews, and others who will be persecuted by an easy plurality, if not majority, of these immigrants.

It's not safe to be Jewish in Europe any longer. That's bullshit. I thought we were done with that in 1945.

I would like to back to Paris one last time -- I saw it during WWII as an American soldier and it was among the finest times of my life, even battle-scared and (somewhat) rubble strewn -- but I don't think it is safe for me to go, especially at my age.

[itcfish]

44. Saudi Wahabis

are not representatives of Islam

[flamingdem]

38. Sad part is that many of his flock would agree with this including

women.

[itcfish]

43. Just Like the Catholic Priests

Who blame their victims.

[PersonNumber503602]

46. Yet catholic priests rarely have a contingent of progressives defending them

or bringing up other groups misgivings in order to minimize their actions. I'm not sure if that's what you're doing (you may not be), but it's something I've seen a lot of.

[NickB79]

48. We cut the balls off a dog that humps your leg

If you want to reduce yourself to the level of mindless animals, would you accept being treated like a mindless animal?

[MariaThinks]

51. these imams don't seem to have any sympathy for women.

[guillaumeb]

54. Yet another in a series of "Muslim hating" posts that ignore that Germany has a long standing

problem with rapes around public holidays. And that the German government says that the rape problem is a male problem. Not any particular subset of males. But this post does feed into the same type of demonization and hate for Muslims that Trump preaches to the right wing choir.

[Dems to Win]

136. This Egyptian woman disagrees with you

Police have said this was an Unprecedented new crime, never seen before in Germany, unmatched in its numbers, planning, and coordination. But to this Egyptian woman it was familiar:

written by an Egyptian woman living in Germany getting her PhD, Hala Kindleberger
From an Egyptian newspaper

http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2016/01/13/arabs-sexual-harassment-in-germany-and-its-effect-on-merkels-plans/

The sexual harassment incident in Cologne, Germany on New Year’s Eve resulted in massive shock in the European community. About 1,000 immigrants of Arab origins gathered to practice mass harassment, which has become widely commonplace in Arab and Islamic countries. They separated the women in circles, with a detailed plan to isolate them so they could harass them sexually, physically, and in some cases, even raped them.

This scenario is known in our countries but for the pacifist German society that respects human rights, it is a real shock and places a major obstacle in front of Merkel’s plans not to put a limit on the number of refugees admitted to the EU. Those who oppose accepting refugees of Arab and Islamic origins have been given the biggest corroboration for their argument to refuse giving asylum to people to those who do not respect customs and traditions of the German society.

snip....

Testimonies of witnesses and victims confirm that these harassers did not have the slightest sense of wrongdoing; on the contrary, they have displayed a kind of pleasure and satisfaction.

snip....

This catastrophic thinking has resulted in religious insanity that says girls should be taught their place in the streets and public spaces, to push them into donning the veil and push them out of the public sphere. Their rationale is that if women feel safe on the streets, they will be tempted to commit the sin of immodesty. By that virtue, harassment becomes a noble religious goal.

snip...

The shock of the disaster has so far been rationally contained because it is a new phenomenon and no one here wants senseless rush.

[guillaumeb]

147. Read my post #96 with many statistics from a variety of sources.

I will stay with my statistics versus one, anecdotal testimony from an individual.

[guillaumeb]

55. More information that might help you:

From the article:

Activists say violence against women has been ignored for too long – whether the perpetrators are immigrants or native-born Germans.

Cologne, Germany — The victims of the sexual assaults on New Year’s Eve in Cologne and other German cities have figured as bit players, overshadowed by a raging debate over whether Germany has erred in accepting so many asylum seekers – 1.1 million last year.

But as the criminal complaints related to the attacks soar above 600 so far nationwide, the events in Cologne have also prompted a fresh look at sexism and violence against women in German society. The assaults have spurred a drive for tougher laws against offenders – immigrant or native – and the realization that even the most innocuous pass at a woman can no longer be tolerated.

“We have been blind in one eye,” says Alexander Bosch, a consultant for "hate crimes" for Amnesty International in Berlin. He says that reports of sexual assault have been documented for years at events like Carnival or Oktoberfest, but no one took it seriously until foreigners were believed to be involved. “We see the sexism of white guys, and we don’t talk about it.”

As this more nuanced article states, "no one took it seriously until foreigners were believed to be involved".

According to Federal Association of Rape Crisis Centers and Women’s Counseling Centers in Germany, between 2001 and 2012, Germany averaged 8,000 reports of sexual assault per year, but the number of those that were brought to court numbered only 1,300 annually. In that entire span, there were fewer than 1,000 prosecutions, and only 10 percent of those resulted in conviction.


An indication perhaps that in Germany, like the US, reports of rape are not taken seriously by the police or prosecutors?
This clip would give credence to that:


Writing in the Frankfurter Allgemeine on Sunday, Antonia Baum says men are trying to downplay the victimization of women. “One doesn't want to tell the story because suddenly the men who are interested in it are the same ones who previously had brushed feminists off,” the writer says.

Finally,

Refugees are worried that these events will exacerbate anti-migrant sentiment, especially among women. A group of male Syrian refugees distributed fliers on the University of Cologne campus today condemning the attacks and apologizing for the criminal actions.
“These criminal actions stomped all over our cultural values – values which naturally include respect for women and men,” their flier read.

Read more:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2016/0111/Cologne-attacks-Does-Germany-have-a-problem-with-sexual-assault-video

And then there's also the question of popular response, and whether women's experiences are being hijacked for political purposes.

Wizorek started a campaign in 2013 to use the hashtag "#aufschrei," or outcry, for women to share their experiences with stalking, harassment, assault and rape.


"Back then when #Aufschrei was big in the media and people talked about it ... a lot of people also tried to downplay the problems. They were saying, 'Well, but we've gotten so far and we have gender equity in Germany right now, we have a female chancellor, so what do you want?' All that kind of argument was going on," she told Michel.

"And those people are the ones who are now talking a lot about what has happened in Cologne. So they are using these stories and these experiences of the people who have been attacked in Cologne to only push forward with their racist agenda against migrants and refugees in Germany. And I think that's a huge problem."


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/10/462558773/night-of-shame-week-of-soul-searching-cologne-attacks-divide-Germany

Once again the right wing, assisted by the corporate media, is using the very real issue of rape violence for political purposes.

[branford]

61. If you have a domestic problem with sexual assault of women,

is it then advisable to voluntarily admit hundreds of thousands of young single men with little vetting from cultures where violence against women is tolerated or even encouraged?

One would assume the most prudent government policy to ensure the safety of women would first and foremost to do everything possible to ensure the problem doesn't get any worse. Merkel's refugee policy is the opposite, the reason why the assaults in Cologne and other cities were not promptly reported, and why the population is disgusted.

[guillaumeb]

65. Does the German culture tolerate rape?

Some of the information here, especially that from the German Womens' group, would certainly suggest so.

If rape was a problem exclusive to certain "cultures", in your transparently coded language, your suggestion might make sense, but unfortunately rape is a global problem.

And what if these young single men from these suspect cultures were actually admitted as children?

As my previous post states, I feel that this post, and the many like it that have cropped up so frequently now at DU, are liberal reflections of the cruder Muslim bashing that Trump promotes. A kinder, gentler form of hatred that is no less toxic from that formerly promoted by the Klan robed haters.

[branford]

66. You're asking the wrong question.

Does the cultures of most of the countries in the Middle East and North Africa tolerate rape?

If there is a problem with sexual assault in Germany, will the admission of hundreds of thousands of young single men from these cultures without significant prior vetting make the existing problem better or worse?

Simply, what you're witnessing is liberals rejecting the cultural relativism that freely criticizes Christianity and other western religions and cultures for a vast variety of reasons, yet refuses to engage in the same critical examination of Islamic and Arab religion and culture. We are no longer willing to sacrifice hard fought women's rights and other liberal achievements in the name of multiculturalism.

If you're surprised by the reactions of so many on a liberal, Democratic forum, you've really not been paying attention to popular sentiments, nor do you fully appreciate how truly moderate we are compared to the bulk of democratic popular opinions in the USA and Europe.

Further, a belief that people should not generally be discriminated against simply due to their religion or national origin, regardless of whether it's Islam or countries in Arab and Muslim world, is most certainly not synonymous with open door refugee and immigration policies. Ignoring this basic fact might be the reason why right wing parties ascend to power across Europe without them needing to do much to convince anyone of their virtue.

[smirkymonkey]

67. +1000

[guillaumeb]

71. As I previously stated, if rape was a problem exclusive to certain cultures,

I would agree. But rape is a universal problem. It is not specific to certain cultures, or certain religions. If there is a problem with sexual assault, and there obviously is, that problem is not limited by culture. So your argument about cultural relativism has no relevance.

Rape is violence. Rape occurs a lot in the military. Therefore veterans should be prevented from returning to the US. Correct?

Rape is also linked to alcohol consumption. So males who drink should be profiled. Correct?

Rape frequently is a "family affair". Should we ban families?

I am not completely surprised by this reaction on a Democratic forum. Hatred, and misogyny, and prejudice are not restricted to conservatives. Only the words used to express that hatred change. And to claim that because DU is moderate, or liberal, does not excuse the prejudice and crude nativist hatred, no matter how that hatred is expressed. That equates to a kinder, gentler form of xenophobia.

What all of these cultural arguments boil down to is a claim or belief that Muslim culture is sui generis based on oppression of and contempt for women. Progressives of all background should reject such bigotry.

[branford]

77. No culture has eliminated rape, or is likely do to so.

However, in terms of actual violence and discrimination against women, the Western world over the last few centuries has made dramatic improvements, both culturally and legally. Conversely, many of the cultures where the refugees originate have sadly normalized this violence and inequality, rather than fighting against it. To suggest that the problem of sexual violence and lack of gender equality in American and Europe is anywhere near the same as much of the Arab and Muslim world in terms of either degree and pervasiveness is simply ludicrous. It's this moral relativism that you apparently support and that liberals are increasingly rejecting.

No one is denying that sexual violence occurs in Germany and elsewhere and is committed by its "native" population. These problems should and must be addressed. Voluntarily admitting hundreds of thousands of young men from cultures that normalize violence against women, particularly without significant prior vetting and over a very short time-frame, is the height of political stupidity and needlessly increases the danger to women and others. Complaining about domestic crime doesn't change this simple fact.

If the problem of violence against women among refugees and immigrants from certain regions is so significant that the various liberal governments actually need formal classes and pamphlets to teach that non-consensual sexual conduct is not only wrong, but criminal, it's hardly surprising that the democratic voters might question why these people should be admitted in the first place.

The solution to sexual violence in Western societies is not to ignore or import even worse and more pervasive sexual violence and discrimination from other cultures.

[guillaumeb]

96. Rape in an epidemic, and has been for centuries.

One out of three women in Europe have suffered some form of physical or sexual assault and 5% have been raped.
According to a 2014 study published by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights, approximately 47% of women surveyed in Finland were said to have suffered physical and/or sexual abuse; And 52 % of women in Denmark were said to have suffered physical and/or sexual abuse. Finland was one of the last countries in the EU to criminalize marital rape, making it illegal in 1994.

Obviously every country should profile white Scandinavians. (Christian countries)

In Australia the reported rape rate per 100,000 people is relatively high. During the year 2012, an estimated 51,200 Australians aged 18 years and over were a victim of sexual assault. Almost a third (30%) of victims of sexual assault had the most recent incident they experienced reported to the police.

According to news.com, 1 out of 6 Australian women has to face the torture of rape by a non-partner, compared to one in 14 women around the world. It said that Australian women aged over 15 are victims of rape. Australia (with New Zealand in the research) came third in the worldwide study with 16.4 % of women reporting being raped by someone other than a partner.

We also have to profile white Australians (Christian country)

Among all violent crimes reported to police, sexual assault showed a rapid increase in reported rates in Canada. According to huffingtonpost, there are 460,000 sexual assaults in the country every year. Its said that 33 out of every 1,000 sexual assault cases are reported to the police, and 29 are recorded as a crime.
One out of 4 North American women has to face the torture of rape during their lifetime. 11% of women have physical injury resulting this torture. According to the statistics, only 6% of incidents are reported to the police. Over 80% of victims are women, maximum incidents occur in the home and 80% of assailants are friends and family of the victim. The most disturbing fact is that 83% of disabled women will be sexual assaulted during their lifetime. About all sexual assault victims, 17% are girls and 15% are boys under 16.

Now Canadians are also suspect. (Christian country)

In 2013, The Roast Busters scandal exposed the truth about rape in New Zealand. A group of young men from West Auckland, calling themselves “Roast Busters”, who allegedly sought to intoxicate underage girls to gang rape them.

Gang rape by white males (Christian country)

According to a report entitled “An Overview of Sexual Offending in England and Wales”, released in 2013, by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ), Office for National Statistics (ONS) and Home Office; Approximately 85,000 victims of rape per year in England and Wales – 73,000 females and 12,000 males, equating to about 230 cases every day. The report stated that 1 in every 5 women has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. See the full report, a summary and/or the data tables here.
According to the BBC reports, the number of rapes reported to and recorded by police is at its highest ever level, increase by 29 percent as overall crime falls in England and Wales.

Add males from the British Isles also. (Predominantly Christian)

According to George Mason University, Worldwide Sexual Assault Statistics, 1 in 3 American women will be sexually abused during their lifetime. About 19.3% of women and 2% of men have been raped at least once in their lives. Additionally, an estimated 43.9% of women and 23.4% of men experienced other forms of sexual violence during their lifetimes. Many victims of sexual abuse were victimized at a young age, about 79% were first raped before age 25, and 40% before age 18. (usatoday).

The good old USA, home of Christian values

Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women comes out to be the victim of rape. If you look at the number of rapes, however, the increase is even worse. In 1975, there were only 421 rapes reported to the police – in 2014, it was 6,620. That is an increase of 1,472%. It would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place for women in the world.

Sweden has the highest rate of rape in Europe. In 2013, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), there were 63 rape cases per 100,000 population reported to the Swedish police.

No Swedes allowed. Again, a Christian country

With an estimated of 500,000 rape cases every year, the country has one of the highest rate of Rape Crimes in the world. It is estimated that moree than 40% of South African women will be raped in their lifetime. The Medical Research Council has estimated that only 1 in 9 rapes are reported. Thus the actual numbers of rapes is much higher than numbers recorded by the police.

That completes my quick list. The fact that there are no Muslim countries on the list does not indicate that misogyny and rape are not problems in these countries. But given the list, it is obvious that no males from any country should be allowed to immigrate into the US.

http://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-countries-with-maximum-rape-crimes/

[branford]

104. Besides the fact that many of those statistics are questionable, at best,

one of the primary reasons for both the high numbers and, even more importantly, the reporting itself is the formal illegality of a wide range of sexual assault, harassment and discriminatory policies in such countries and a public that finds it abhorrent. Even you appear surprised that NO appear on your list, likely because the conduct you complaint about isn't even illegal, and if so, totally ignored or actually punishing women for reporting.

It also totally misses my point. If the problems are so bad with Europe's own citizens. why voluntarily import more men from the very demographic of the worse offenders from the most misogynistic countries? Again, politicians should try to improve problems, not ignore them or make it worse.

By your rationale, it would indeed be prudent to more broadly limit ALL immigration, at least of young, single men, not ignore the problem with the refugees or admit hundreds of thousands more with virtually no screening over a matter of mere months.

[guillaumeb]

105. "Questionable" because they do not fit your conclusions?

You dismiss my statistics without offering one statistic of your own, and without any evidence to support your assertions.

A powerful argument, no doubt, to all who are determined to make Muslims the new "most hated" group in the world. And those same people will no doubt then ask why Muslims do not trust the US.

When you can find any evidence to support your claims, please post that evidence and we will debate sources.

My point, which again you seem to have totally missed or ignored, is that rape is a crime of violence that affects people in every country. To single out Muslims as "the worst" on the basis of anecdotal horror stories seems to me to be an excuse for bigotry by dressing it up as common sense.

And the US ranks Number 2 on the list. Perhaps that also can be explained by a secret horde of serial Muslim rapists giving a bad name to all the decent American males?

Please, spare me.

[840high]

94. xactly

[guillaumeb]

103. see post 96

[Dems to Win]

72. Today's story from Deutsch Welle

http://www.dw.com/en/cologne-imam-women-provoked-sex-attacks-by-wearing-perfume-and-being-half-naked/a-18997352

Cologne imam: Women provoked sex attacks by 'wearing perfume' and being 'half-naked'
A Salafist imam in Cologne has said victims of the New Year's Eve sexual assaults were partly responsible for the attacks. In a subsequent interview, Sami Abu-Yusuf has claimed his comments were "taken out of context."

[Warpy]

75. I did a search of this story last night and found it only on right wing sites

The farthest to the left was The Daily Fail, and that should tell you something. I think this man's remarks were taken WAY out of context, as usual, just because of the sites where they were first reported.

I didn't post this story last night because it had a distinct smell of propaganda.

That doesn't mean it doesn't contain a grain of truth. Still, I can't see any reasonable person with eyes in his head calling women bundled up against a German winter "half naked."

[christx30]

78. Well, when this is all you're used to...

[Warpy]

92. Exactly, and it's why the Imam explained himself above ^^

and told his congregation that if they couldn't manage to tolerate women who wore perfume and went around half naked, they needed to find another country to go to.

When some outrageous story is posted on right wing sites, it usually means there's a little more to the story.

[christx30]

95. Quote from the above article.

"There were scantily clad women who were wearing perfume as they walked through the drunken crowd. For some North Africans, this was reason to grope the women," Abu-Yusuf told "Express."

"That doesn't mean that I think women shouldn't be allowed to dress like that," he added. "Everyone has to accept that. And if they don't agree, they need to go to another country. That's the truth."

Still seems he's standing by his claims that women can expect to be assaulted if they are dressed as westerners. But, you know, it'd be great if the assault didn't happen.
So, still it's not "This kind of behavior is completely wrong and anyone participating in it is wrong." It's "Eh, what can you expect? She shouldn't have been in that red dress. You know what that does to guys."
But he said that AFTER the firestorm. It's like when a politician apologizes for any offense you felt when he said that horrid thing. He isn't apologizing for saying it. Just the offense. And clarifying his remarks.

[Warpy]

99. No, he's saying that's the reasoning of the gropers and rapists and that it is wrong

[christx30]

100. QUote from OP:

“The events of New Year's Eve were the girls' own fault, because they were half naked and wearing perfume. It is not surprising the men wanted to attack them. (Dressing like that) is like adding fuel to the fire," he said

He wasn't blaming the men for the attacks. He was blaming the women for dressing like that. Essentially "How can the man resist it when a woman is dressed like that?" Other groups have echoed his remarks, comparing the women to prey in front of lions.

And his follow up "I was taken out of context" remarks were because he pissed off a bunch of people. His remarks before the fury are his real feelings. His "clarification" is BS used to protect himself from the law the refugees have been using to protect themselves from criticism.

[7962]

81. See post 72

[branford]

83. You can easily find the video of the interview (I already posted a link).

Many of these stories are not reported by liberal media outlets because they endanger multicultural narratives and the policies of existing liberal governments, and seriously jeopardize their electoral future.

Hiding the problems do not make them disappear, and as the problems worsen, they can no longer be hidden or covered-up. Instead of admitting mistakes and adjusting policies, many on the left appear willing to sacrifice women and other liberal political, legal and cultural gains in order to protect preconceived notions and not admit that the right may be right on certain issues, although usually for all the wrong reasons.

If the left complains that releasing widely-reported and accurate stories is propaganda, we should not be surprised when many democratic populations begin to view our liberal media outlets as the real purveyors of propaganda, and vote out liberal governments.

The problems and concerns about the refugees and immigrant populations from certain regions is very real, they do indeed call into question many long-standing (and sometimes contradictory, i.e., multiculturalism vs. feminism) liberal policies and priorities, and we need to confront these issues head-on and adapt, or our denial and defensiveness will result in more and more right-wing victories across Europe and the USA.

[guillaumeb]

101. And you, or others here, can easily read post 96

but be warned that talk about multicultural narratives cannot stand up to actual narratives.

[plus5mace]

106. Yes, we all saw your bullshit.

No, Cologne was nothing like Octoberfest. There was no organized rape at Octoberfest. Every society has individual predators, but not every society tolerates rape gangs.

[guillaumeb]

113. One way to attack information that runs counter to your narrative is to dismiss it.

A better way, and more intellectually honest way, would be to counter my argument, that is based on statistics from a number of sources You could do that by introducing your own sources and statistics. But you introduced nothing.

Now I might conclude from your utter failure to introduce any evidence to counter my argument that:
A) you have no evidence other than your own feelings, or
B) you can find no evidence, or
C) you feel crude language is an acceptable debating style.

I know what I believe.
A hint: so far I would grade your effort a low "C".

What this post and a few like it are saying is that there is a rape culture that is common to Islam and Islamic countries. There is no evidence to support this, no evidence to support that Islam is sui generis hostile to women, but that does not stop the posts.

[branford]

107. Your arguments, at best, favor limiting entry and immigration

of all young men to Europe.

If Merkel and others leaders advocated policies limiting ALL immigration to protect women, we wouldn't be reading stories like what happened in Cologne or the imam in the OP.

However, ignoring problems relating to the refugees because of other problems with citizens of the destination countries is little more than advocating "two wrongs make a right," and the democratic populations of the USA and Europe are increasingly refusing to tolerate such foolishness, including a great many liberals, as is more than amply demonstrated by the overwhelming criticisms of such policies by Democrats here on DU.

[guillaumeb]

149. You mischaracterize my arguments.

My argument is that any post that attempts to demonize Muslims by claiming that Muslims constitute an especially acute threat to women is not borne out by any facts. The fact that these attempts are not based in reality has not stopped them from increasing at DU.

Simply because a large number of people have accepted this mischaracterization doe not make it true. A lie does not magically become truth when the lie is believed by a certain "critical mass" of credulous and easily frightened people.

What we are seeing at DU and in the country at large is an attempt by the 1% to divide people so that the same frightened people can be more easily manipulated. Obviously that attempt at fear mongering is working.

And the red herring of the "imam in the OP" are equivalent to making Minister Fred Phelps the official spokesperson for the US or Christianity. That is simplistic nonsense.

[branford]

152. You didn't address my points again.

Let's assume purely for purposes of this discussion that, as you suggest, ALL young single men are potential dangers to women, irrespective of culture, religion, nationality, etc.

Would you therefore agree that Europe would be far better served by a refugee policy similar to that explicitly advocated by President Obama and Prime Minister Cameron, wherein we will only permit the slow and regulated entry of carefully screened and vetted intact families, women, and young children directly from the refugee camps in the actual conflict zones, carefully excluding economic migrants, single men and other similar "demographic undesirables" or potential security or safety risks?

I imagine that most Europeans would be far more sympathetic to such a policy (which would be the near opposite of Merkel's current position). Of course, the number of migrants that would actually be allowed into the EU would be a fraction of the current status quo, numbering tens of thousands over years, rather hundreds of thousands or more over months.

[Little Tich]

108. "Israel National News" is a right-wing racist israeli news site.

I'm not surprised that they run this story, but I'm quite surprised to see it getting positive feedback on a site like DU.

[christx30]

111. The only question is:

Did this joker say that the rape is understandable because the women were showing skin, and wearing perfume? If you google his name, you can see a bunch of news sites saying the exact same thing.
So it doesn't matter where the quote or story came from. BS like what he is saying doesn't require any spin to make it sound bad. "She was asking for it" is BS that transcends all cultures.

[Little Tich]

127. One can only wonder about the motives when someone posts articles from a news site that isn't even

OK in the I/P dungeon.

Some of the comments to the article aren't very nice either:

Avi Cham ·
Jerusalem, Israel
I'm gonna pour some perfume on pigs and donkeys for these perverted terrorists. Of course they'll blame it on the pig for wearing perfume. oink oink

Just saying...

[christx30]

131. That is still better than excusing rape.

And the reason that source is being used is because any other site is afraid of being labeled as anti immigrant. Or being Accused of hate speech.
So, again, I ask. Did this clown excuse rape?

[Little Tich]

134. It seems as if the Imams words were taken out of context

but that won't be a problem for some people who would wish his words were true. I thought that there were very few racists on DU, and also that people on DU knew how to double check sources.

[7962]

143. So "thats just how they are" is supposed to be a BETTER explanation?

Because his later statement pretty much excuses his comments by saying that. Thats kinda like saying "you people"
As is mentioned in other posts, his words are also published in several other places.
I didnt realize being critical of someone trying to explain away rape and sexual assault could be considered "racist". But then again, around here anything someone doesnt like sometimes gets the ridiculous "racist" label

[christx30]

145. That's pretty much what Trump said

after his "Mexico is sending rapists" comments. He puts out a "but some of them are nice people" to try to dull the outrage, but he deserved every ounce of crap he got over those comments.

[PersonNumber503602]

118. I'm finding it hard to find the video of him

Apparently it was said on a Russian network. Anyway, he has since said that his comment was taking out of context. He says he wasn't saying it's okay, but rather that it's a reality that migrants from North Africa view things that way. His comments are in the middle of this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3411641/Germans-ban-ALCOHOL-want-prevent-sex-attacks-help-North-Africans-integrate-says-Muslim-group.html

[branford]

119. The "context" is still terrible,

and the information provided in the article, particularly most of the statements from the imam, is egregious, misogynistic, and hardly improve perceptions of either Muslims or North Africans in Europe.

[PersonNumber503602]

122. Yeah, I agree. It's probably best for him to keep his thoughts to himself.

[guillaumeb]

155. While many forms of prejudice are criticized at DU,

apparently anti-Muslim bigotry and Islamophobia are considered acceptable even to liberals. This is only one of a few such posts that contain blatant hatred disguised as prudence and a "rejection of multiculturalism", which seems to be the new catch phrase for "I hate Muslims".

[Little Tich]

157. Oh, I completely agree.

And I also think it's going to get worse here on DU when some people realize that they can get away with posting Islamophobic crap.

[guillaumeb]

163. If I posted similar things about nearly any other people, or religions,

my post would be immediately locked. But I do not ask for blocking such posts, I prefer to know what people really think.

[christx30]

160. This isn't anti-Muslim or Islamophobia.

This is a rejection of one jackass saying that the rapes were the "women's own fault" (his words) because they were wearing perfume. And the rejection of multiculturalism means that yes, sorry, but there are some cultures that are below others. Cultures like this guy and the North Africans that say that a man can't help his urges and his actions, therefore, it's up to the woman to dress a certain way if she wants to not be assaulted. That culture that he is expressing, and has been echoed by other groups in the area (some comparing a woman to naked prey, and men to lions) is a rejection of Women's rights.
So, yes, I reject that culture whole cloth. I think that culture is incompatible with western society, and more care needs to be stop these type of men from coming in. And these type of people need to be sent away.
The alternative is women stop going out, stop dressing the way they want to avoid being harassed. Do you want that? Nothing anyone has said was against Muslims, or Islam in general. No where did anyone make jokes about Muhammed or draw anything with him, or post that cartoon with Muhammed with a bomb in his turban (and threatening/killing people for those cartoons? Yeah, all cultures are equal. Keep telling yourself that).

[guillaumeb]

162. The very words of your denial contain the proof of Islamophobia and culture prejudice.

When you wrote:

And the rejection of multiculturalism means that yes, sorry, but there are some cultures that are below others.

Though you may not have intended it, this is a perfect example of the blatant bias expressed by western imperialists to justify their hatred. So you, or people like you, have decided that certain cultures are below others?

Assuming that you are a US citizen, how do you justify:

1) the fact that the US is always at war, and has been for its' entire existence?
2) the fact that the US was founded on racism and genocide, and still profits from it?
3) the fact that the US has over 600 overseas bases to use in its quest for world domination?
4) the fact that the US is ranked number 2 in incidence of rape, surpassed only by South Africa?
5) the fact that the US has invaded its closest neighbors numerous times, as well as nearly every country in the Americas?

When we talk about culture, what culture are you living in?

[christx30]

164. I am in the US.

And cultures that treat women like second class citizens, that excuse sexual assault as "it's just something they do" are below cultures that treat them as equals.
If throwing women under the bus is what it takes to embrace multiculturalism, then I want nothing at all to do with it.
Why are you so against Women's rights? Why are you so ready to embrace and excuse a misogynistic culture? Why do you feel others are racist because we don't?
Further, the culture you are so keen on defending throws gays from towers and hangs them in the street. See Iran.
Why are you so anti-gay?

[guillaumeb]

165. I am not certain if you read my questions.

But you certainly made no attempt to answer them.

I will respond to your questions after you have answered mine.

Thanks

[bdwker]

167. Wow

"And the rejection of multiculturalism means that yes, sorry, but there are some cultures that are below others."

Youre against multiculturism ???

[christx30]

172. I'm against pretending everything is hunky dory

with every country and culture. Some things in every culture are ugly. But that area seems to have a great deal more. And they aren't exactly shy about showing it.
Go ahead and celebrate cultural differences.




Because all cultures are equal.

[guillaumeb]

176. Against multiculturalism and convinced that some cultures are below others.

Which cultures remains unspecified, but possibly the darker cultures?

It appears to me that, for a hopefully small subset of DU posters, Muslims have replaced blacks as the new group to hate.

[crim son]

140. Does this story make an appearance anywhere else?

I just took a look at the publication and it strikes me as sort of a rag.

[christx30]

141. See post 72. N/t

[crim son]

142. Thank you. I normally make a point of reading a thread so I am not redundant

but this morning I failed to do that.

[Enrique]

146. ironic n/t

[Quantess]

192. Yes, yes it is, because now anybody is permitted to kick this Imam's ass

for dressing the way he does.