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inanna

(3,547 posts)
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 11:52 AM Jan 2016

CBC IN RUSSIA - Russia's bleak winter: Protests grow as ruble weakens and Kremlin makes painful cuts

Source: CBC News

Posted: Jan 26, 2016 5:00 AM ET

Beleaguered currency has lost more than half its value in last 18 months

<snip>

Like a heavyweight boxer, the battered Russian ruble will try to struggle back off the mat this week after a dazing blow in the last few days.

Russia's currency plunged to near record lows against the U.S. dollar in a downward plunge unlike any seen since the 1980s.

"It's very worrying, our ruble has devalued so much," says Svetlana Lebedevo, for a moment distracted from admiring the festival of lights in central Moscow. "Things are pretty bad but we do hope they will get better."

Sanctions, which have dried up Russia's ability to borrow on international markets, and the plunging price of crude oil have forced the ruble down a further 12 per cent since the New Year. The beleaguered currency has lost more than half its value in the last 18 months.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-economy-ruble-workers-protest-1.3418176

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CBC IN RUSSIA - Russia's bleak winter: Protests grow as ruble weakens and Kremlin makes painful cuts (Original Post) inanna Jan 2016 OP
I feel for them. polly7 Jan 2016 #1
Our economy isn't doing much better!? GET REAL! MrTriumph Jan 2016 #5
I'm Canadian. YOU get real! polly7 Jan 2016 #6
Saudi Arabia is responsible. roamer65 Jan 2016 #67
I agree, roamer65. Great point. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #68
Depends on which unemployment figure you look at Kelvin Mace Jan 2016 #9
U3 is the main unemployment number that everyone uses, not U1. Ace Rothstein Jan 2016 #10
The number of people collecting benefits Kelvin Mace Jan 2016 #15
BLS does not collect any data on unemployment benefits. Ace Rothstein Jan 2016 #25
LOL, I wonder if you really believe some of the stuff you type snooper2 Jan 2016 #43
Yeah, or I wouldn't fucking type it. How about you, do you type anything of value ... polly7 Jan 2016 #46
Yes, Always! Also home prices in Canada are jacked up...Why people think a shack in Edmonton snooper2 Jan 2016 #47
Any first-hand data? polly7 Jan 2016 #49
Winter in Moscow: Putin wrestles with economy, sanctions, Syria and Kremlin factions bemildred Jan 2016 #2
What we (the West) normally do nyabingi Jan 2016 #3
Well said, nyabingi. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #4
Agreed. nt elias49 Jan 2016 #7
Since I live here.... Red Mountain Jan 2016 #8
Leaders around the world are allowed to make nyabingi Jan 2016 #23
Lol, yeah Putin is practically MLK jr. nt geek tragedy Jan 2016 #11
Didn't make that comparison buddy - get yourself together (nt) nyabingi Jan 2016 #22
Oh of course it is always our fault treestar Jan 2016 #14
Maybe if we felt a bit of what we nyabingi Jan 2016 #21
Russia did not diversify. joshcryer Jan 2016 #27
I think these sanctions have been a real wake-up call nyabingi Jan 2016 #30
If anything it's showing them the US economy is better... joshcryer Jan 2016 #31
They haven't been trying to nyabingi Jan 2016 #33
+1,000,000. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #41
Yeah, Ukraine EU trade has nothing to do with the US. joshcryer Jan 2016 #61
Does every country have to work 'with' the US economy?? nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #44
Yes actually.... Yes King_David Jan 2016 #51
No. Actually ...... No. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #52
Can you name one ? King_David Jan 2016 #54
I can't handle this arrogance and entitlement. polly7 Jan 2016 #55
A country can not survive or thrive without interacting with the US economy King_David Jan 2016 #59
Facts change all the time. polly7 Jan 2016 #60
Putin thought he was going to ride energy power into a new era of Russian domination BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #12
Like we think so in Canada? polly7 Jan 2016 #13
Actually, no BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #16
Canada hasn't had devastating sanctions placed against it ......... there's no comparison. polly7 Jan 2016 #17
It hasn't annexed part of any neighboring countries lately either BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #18
Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia. polly7 Jan 2016 #19
The Crimean Tatars think it's a shame BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #20
They voted overwhelmingly to go, also. polly7 Jan 2016 #24
Some of the "liberals" on this site nyabingi Jan 2016 #32
Are you a "liberal" who supports the repression of ethnic minorities? BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #34
Of course not nyabingi Jan 2016 #35
OK, I'm willing to accept that you're no more a fascist for supporting an unlawful annexation BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #36
There was nothing unlawful in what they did nyabingi Jan 2016 #42
Your opinion, the fact is they are paying for what they did BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #50
LOL. The irony. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #53
Putin defenders here are a source of endless irony n/t BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #56
Not Putin defenders ....... defenders of a nation of 37 million people who are polly7 Jan 2016 #58
You and I know both know that most of the world nyabingi Jan 2016 #62
And we'll be doing it with Russian help in exchange for the relaxation of sanctions BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #64
This is why I hope that one day nyabingi Jan 2016 #65
Funny can be dark or light BeyondGeography Jan 2016 #66
Well ...... not really. polly7 Jan 2016 #40
No they did not. Putin's own Council on Human Rights said 20-25% of Crimean voters voted Yes. pampango Jan 2016 #69
BULLSHIT. nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #70
Don't tell me. Tell Putin's Human Rights organization. n/t pampango Jan 2016 #71
How the West Creates Terrorism polly7 Jan 2016 #72
I'll talk about human rights all I want whether you like it or not. Liberals who do not talk about pampango Jan 2016 #73
As will I. polly7 Jan 2016 #74
A whole people, predominantly of Russian culture, chose to go to where polly7 Jan 2016 #37
Thanks for your work in putting this together nyabingi Jan 2016 #45
Yes, for many. polly7 Jan 2016 #48
I guess I don't really understand the nyabingi Jan 2016 #63
Petro states have always had a bad time. joshcryer Jan 2016 #28
Petro states do just fine if they're not targets of war, either militarily or by terroristic polly7 Jan 2016 #38
!!! Tarheel_Dem Jan 2016 #57
Called this years ago. joshcryer Jan 2016 #26
Did you call Libya? nt. polly7 Jan 2016 #39
Apparently, commercially the devaluation is a boon for Russian exports. I'll Joe Chi Minh Jan 2016 #29

polly7

(20,582 posts)
1. I feel for them.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 11:57 AM
Jan 2016

Our economy isn't doing much better, if our dollar continues the way it is there will be many, many layoffs and companies closing. I see it all around me right now. Houses once worth 200,000.00 on the market not even being looked at, people who once made good livings without jobs - many of them. It's scary, and we haven't even been under the sanctions Russia has, which I believe are economic terrorism. The Ukraine horror was not started by Russia, Putin stopped the west's intention to do the same to Syria as was done to Libya ...... that sanctions were imposed upon her still blows my mind, the hypocrisy is so glaring.

MrTriumph

(1,720 posts)
5. Our economy isn't doing much better!? GET REAL!
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 01:15 PM
Jan 2016

We are creating jobs. Unemployment is declining. Retail sales are rising. None of this is true in Russia.

The US is the strongest economy in the world. That's a fact.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
67. Saudi Arabia is responsible.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:13 PM
Jan 2016

They turned oil into an economic weapon at the behest of the USA and now the blowback is killing the Canadian economy and our oil patch states as well.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
9. Depends on which unemployment figure you look at
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 01:30 PM
Jan 2016

The one the government likes to trot out is the U1 figure, which is pretty much people unemployed for 15 weeks or more, but still collecting unemployment benefits. For December 2015, that number is 2.1% of the labor force.

But when you look at U6, the unemployed/underemployed and people who can't find jobs and have exhausted their unemployment, can only find temp work, etc. that number jumps to 9.9%.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment#United_States_Bureau_of_Labor_statistics

Ace Rothstein

(3,161 posts)
10. U3 is the main unemployment number that everyone uses, not U1.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 01:33 PM
Jan 2016

Unemployment rates also having nothing to do with unemployment benefits.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
15. The number of people collecting benefits
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:25 PM
Jan 2016

is one way they measure who is actually unemployed. When your benefits run out, they assume got a job in some measurements and stop counting you on that metric.

As to which number is used, most academic/media types look at the U3. Honest academic/media types will qualify that number by mentioning the other metrics. Pols will use whatever number makes a point the point they are trying to prove. Honest pols are rare, but again, would look at the U6 number as the real number, IMO.

Ace Rothstein

(3,161 posts)
25. BLS does not collect any data on unemployment benefits.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 03:31 PM
Jan 2016

Unemployment data is stritctly based on household surveys conducted monthly.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

See "Where do the statistics come from?"

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
47. Yes, Always! Also home prices in Canada are jacked up...Why people think a shack in Edmonton
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:02 PM
Jan 2016

is worth half a million is beyond me...The Canadian YouTubers I have followed for years think so too. Your homes are WAY overvalued currently-

Like, WTF is this LOL

Couldn't even spring for the granite counter-tops


4 Beds3 Baths $419,000
1,513 SQ. Feet Built In 2006




https://www.edmontonrealestate.pro/listing/Edmonton/Terwillegar-Towne/e4003148-3157-trelle-loop-edmonton-ab-t6r-0a2/

polly7

(20,582 posts)
49. Any first-hand data?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:06 PM
Jan 2016

I have many family, friends and acquaintances with first-hand knowledge of how bad it's gotten in this whole area - most of Saskatchewan, actually. I have family in Alberta saying the same. I SEE IT, I talk to people who can't get work, whose businesses are going under.

Where do you live? Here???

Quite the know-it-all when you're not living it.

And ........ I said those expensive houses for sale are sitting empty, not being looked at as people can no longer afford them, so wtf does your smarmy, catty little post above have to do with anything?

Any idea what our dollar is valued at today? I doubt it. You might want to look up how to calculate it ....... it's not hard at all. I bet you can do it. Or, call a friend.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
2. Winter in Moscow: Putin wrestles with economy, sanctions, Syria and Kremlin factions
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jan 2016
Another one.

It was a delayed start to the Russian winter that is echoing in political events in Moscow.

According to some well-informed sources, severe winter also rules inside the Kremlin’s corridors.

The economic situation inside Russia is truly desperate. Three major factors are driving the situation: The endless fall of world oil prices, western sanctions against Russia for its actions in Crimea and Donbass and Russia’s intervention in the Syrian civil war sent the country into a deep spin. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

The general mood in the Kremlin can be summed up by this Russian joke:

(Putin dreaming in his bed) I’d like to inform all of you that the current price of the barrel is $130 and it continues growing; the ruble exchange rate is R37/$1 and the dollar continues to fall…
(A whisper awakening Putin) Mr. President, Mr. President …
Damn, this jerk Peskov (Putin’s press secretary) who spoiled the President’s dream!


http://atimes.com/2016/01/winter-in-moscow-putin-wrestles-with-economy-sanctions-syria-and-kremlin-factions/

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
3. What we (the West) normally do
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 12:54 PM
Jan 2016

after waging active economic war against another country that won't play by our rules is use the bought-and-paid-for media to start blaming that country's troubles solely on mismanagement and bad leadership on behalf of the targeted leader. We conveniently leave out that our sanctions are designed to create enough misery in order to convince the people that their leader brought the calamity upon them. It's similar to the way racists will talk down about Black people while conveniently leaving out the little things like slavery, Jim Crow, the drug war, mass incarceration, economic exploitation, etc. It's because Black people have deficient culture, etc.

One day when our days of empire are long past, I hope that we are treated in the same way by China or whatever country emerges as the global power after our time has passed. We deserve nothing less.

Red Mountain

(1,733 posts)
8. Since I live here....
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 01:25 PM
Jan 2016

I hope we aren't treated that way.

And yes, the sanctions are intended to punish Putin's decisions. What else would they be for? Just to destroy Russia for the fun of it? Do you think we would have imposed sanctions without the actions of Russia?

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
23. Leaders around the world are allowed to make
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:56 PM
Jan 2016

bad decisions, but we (the big dogs on the block) are the only ones who use sanctions offensively against others when they don't play by the rules.

When we installed a client government in Kiev, our wise leaders didn't expect Crimea to diss them and rejoin Russia, but they did. Russia was not about to be kicked out of the Black Sea to see NATO move in (which is exactly what we were hoping to do), so they annexed it and the Crimeans were more than happy to be a part of Russia again. If Russia had the economic dominance that we currently have, they would have been well within their rights, according to your logic, to impose harsh sanctions on us for our meddling in Ukraine.

Sanctions are another form of war (undeclared of course), a way of softening up a country for either civil disobedience, regime change, or military intervention. I think we're going for the normal "color revolution" with Russia (impose sanctions, make the common people unhappy with the leadership, support and sponsor street protests/violence, say the leader is "killing his own people", send arms to the disaffected, start a civil war, get rid of the leader we don't like). This has happened time and time again, the same way, the same pattern.

Some of us choose not to pay attention though because, you know, America is good and stuff.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
14. Oh of course it is always our fault
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:23 PM
Jan 2016

Do you really mean that about China? You'd like to suffer with the rest of us?

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
21. Maybe if we felt a bit of what we
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:48 PM
Jan 2016

dish out people will finally wake up and realize that we can exist comfortably in this world together, with fairness and respect for each other.

I'm hoping we finally break the stranglehold the rich and their corporate interests have always had on our country - most of our wars have been wars of choice, aimed at dominating economies around the world and making them profit-centers for the wealthy. If we break the stranglehold, then maybe we won't be slated for reprisal treatment down the road.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
27. Russia did not diversify.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:05 PM
Jan 2016

But it's funny to see the same people who laughed off the sanctions when they realize how the world really works.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
30. I think these sanctions have been a real wake-up call
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:22 PM
Jan 2016

for Russia, the Chinese and other major countries who have been targeted for submission by the US and its EU sock puppets.

The steep drop in oil prices and the Saudis absolute refusal to cut production to stop the drop in oil prices are all a part of the geopolitical chess game the US is playing in order to maintain control over the world's energy resources. It's not by chance that most of the countries we've targeted for direct military intervention, either overt or covert, are oil producers who will be adversely affected by falling oil prices. Venezuela, Iran, and Russia are the largest, but there's also Libya and Syria (places with oil that we're eager to hand over to Exxon, BP and other Western interests).

All of these oil-dependent countries realize they must not put all of their eggs in one basket, a basket that can have a big hole cut into the bottom of it so that all the goods spill out. Whether they can diversify enough to avoid what we've done to many countries is yet to be seen, but there are many in Washington hoping to make the Russians grovel and beg at our Western feet.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
33. They haven't been trying to
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:39 PM
Jan 2016

"work against" the US economy or undermine it in any way. If anything, they've wanted to be a part of it, especially when it comes to economic integration with the European countries.

For the US, Russia working hand-in-hand with Europe is the biggest fear of them all and a lot of our obsession with Russia is to prevent them from developing good economic relations. Europe has gone along with our "Russia/Putin is evil", "increase your defense spending", "join NATO" game thus far, but I think that their is a quiet majority in Europe (some in elected positions) who see that greater economic cooperation with Russia is in their best interests.

Russia is already starting to integrate more with China, and if the Russians were to develop the same with Europe, the US would probably be ready to launch nuclear missiles to set-off a real WWIII.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
61. Yeah, Ukraine EU trade has nothing to do with the US.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:39 PM
Jan 2016

And they weren't well on their way to bringing in US companies in the east to exploit the gas with tracking.

In fact, when US companies want to work with other countries to help them build infrastructure is called "imperialism."

Venezuela is a great example, they had the best oil infrastructure in the world until they kicked out US companies out of political opportunism.

The irony is that these same countries do deals with China and it's OK. I remember when a certain poster here, possibly the most vile and hateful person I've ever met on the internet, cheered the China pipeline. Precious. Look at how the US diversifying is energy has only bolstered its place in the world. It's amazing.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
55. I can't handle this arrogance and entitlement.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:16 PM
Jan 2016

It makes me ill.

Iraq tried, Libya tried ....... are you saying you have a right to stop countries from not dealing with the petro-dollar or 'US economy'? I wouldn't get too confident things won't change, if I were you. Many in the world are sick and fucking tired of it.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
59. A country can not survive or thrive without interacting with the US economy
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jan 2016

It's not arrogance... It's fact.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
60. Facts change all the time.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:33 PM
Jan 2016

Dealing with the US economy has plunged countries into being owned by the World Bank and IMF and millions living under brutal austerity. Why tf should any nation be forced into that?

Stay arrogant and entitled. I imagine it makes you sleep better, anyway ... even knowing how others are suffering.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
13. Like we think so in Canada?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:17 PM
Jan 2016

I mean, anyone with abundant energy obviously plans to dominate the world, right?

It's a good theory ....... who can argue against the obvious fact that Hussein, Qaddafi and Assad were/are all planning on world domination?! Russia's a bit different though - they aren't a country that can be easily defeated militarily - economic terrorism is all that can be done ......... for now, anyway.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
16. Actually, no
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:31 PM
Jan 2016

Canada does not belong on that list of authoritarian countries whose GDP craters whenever oil prices plummet.

Russia could have a more dynamic economy (like Canada), but that would require real economic and political freedom (like Canada) so don't hold your breath.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
17. Canada hasn't had devastating sanctions placed against it ......... there's no comparison.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jan 2016

Also .......... read your posts again then have a good long look in the mirror. Maybe read up on events that have caused horror for millions all over the world for the last few decades. World domination? Not sure how you can even accuse any other country of it if you've been paying any attention at all.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
19. Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:39 PM
Jan 2016

They didn't want to be under the terroristic rule of the western-backed leaders of the brutal coup.

Isn't that a shame?


Western actions have just destroyed nations with bombs, bullets, chemical weapons, horror, brutal sanctions, starvation and everything else that goes along with the evilness of needless greed and empire 'war' waged against countries with no ability to fight it off. Aren't we just so special!

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
20. The Crimean Tatars think it's a shame
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 02:46 PM
Jan 2016

Too bad Vlad regularly can't keep the lights on in 1/4 of the Crimea. Somehow, the evil West is responsible for that little problem too, I'm sure.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
32. Some of the "liberals" on this site
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:30 PM
Jan 2016

are just as warmongering and bloodthirsty as the worst Republicans out there, and they are just as reluctant to let facts stand in the way of their arguments.

They simply won't acknowledge that the people of Crimea voted to rejoin Russia and celebrated in the streets after the referendum passed. To these people, Putin invaded them, shirtless and on horseback, and personally forced them to submit.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
34. Are you a "liberal" who supports the repression of ethnic minorities?
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:41 PM
Jan 2016

The Tatars have a much older claim on Crimea than Russia; why do you favor super-state rule? Not very liberal, is it?

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
35. Of course not
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jan 2016

but that claim has nothing to do with the fact the majority of Crimeans voted to leave Ukraine. Not too many people would want to live under a regime that is openly and violently hostile to them.

There are problems of ethnic repression everywhere, including the with Ukrainians we are supporting who have been waging a very active war against ethnic Russians in their own country (with our military and financial support). Poroshenko should be reviled in the media as a leader who is "killing his own people", but since we support him, he gets a pass.

Has Putin ordered the Russian military into Crimea to round up and cleanse the place of ethnic Tatars? Nope.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
36. OK, I'm willing to accept that you're no more a fascist for supporting an unlawful annexation
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:07 PM
Jan 2016

followed by a sham referendum than I am a warmonger for supporting sanctions against the perpetrator.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
42. There was nothing unlawful in what they did
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:52 PM
Jan 2016

and what you need to ask yourself is why is it any of our damn business that Crimea rejoined Russia?

Could it be that we, the US, had an interest in controlling Crimea via our stooges in Kiev? That can't possibly be what it is!

If you are willing to overlook the fact that we, the US, has been encouraging and helping the Ukrainian government murder its own citizens then you are indeed a warmonger - and a hypocrite.

And let me ask you this - is Russia reclaiming Crimea (at the request of its people) fundamentally more worse than what we, the US, did to Libya and are doing to Syria? If Russia actually sent its military to Kiev and killed all of the pro-US/neo-Nazis that we're supporting, then maybe I could say that Russia is the aggressor here. That hasn't happened. They've most certainly prevented the Kiev regime from slaughtering more ethnic Russians in the east than they would have wanted, but Russia hasn't resorted to the regime change/invasion that the US is famous for.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
50. Your opinion, the fact is they are paying for what they did
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:08 PM
Jan 2016

That's what usually happens when 100 countries from around the world condemn your behavior in the UN. You need to expand your critique.

Internationally recognized borders are funny things; violate them and you get push back. You need to ask yourself if it is worth the trouble.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
58. Not Putin defenders ....... defenders of a nation of 37 million people who are
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:18 PM
Jan 2016

paying for the west's imperial and self-entitled ambitions. Just like we defended those in Iraq and Libya.

Suck it up.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
62. You and I know both know that most of the world
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:55 PM
Jan 2016

is going to obediently nods their heads when the US wants something so as not to incur our wrath, especially when we're doing something against our old Cold War nemesis. Israel has gotten away with gross human rights abuses and flaunting of international law and internationally recognized borders just because the US gives them the OK. The UN is a US-dominated institution that will never stand up to illegal US actions.

There is nothing the US can do to reverse the fact that Crimea is a part of Russia again, therefore the sanctions should rightfully be seen as offensive and aggressive in nature, not punitive or because Russia violated some sacred principle that the US just can't abide (we all know that's laughable).

We are currently attempting to redraw the borders in the Middle East (again) by supporting the breakup of both Iraq and Syria into smaller, weaker, more pro-US client states yet I hear none of the liberal hypocrites who complain about Crimea say a damn thing about this. You need to recalibrate your moral compass if it exists at all.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
64. And we'll be doing it with Russian help in exchange for the relaxation of sanctions
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:57 PM
Jan 2016

Funny how that works.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
65. This is why I hope that one day
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 07:10 PM
Jan 2016

the entire world breaks the US monopoly on currency reserves and capital flow around the globe because we use that fact to literally bully other countries into doing what we want. Our actions in regards to Russia and China during the Obama presidency has set in motion some very real countermeasures designed to lessen the harm aggressive and offensive sanctions can cause others, and I think our ramping up of military activity aimed at Russia, China, Africa (in order to diminish China's influence), and Latin America reek of desperation - the self-named "empire" is trying to maintain it's "new American century" while facing real challenges abroad and domestically.

You may think that's funny, but it's really an asshole's way of handling things and dealing with people. We have no desire to deal with others as equals, where equal benefit comes out of the working relationship, and that's a major problem. We need leaders who give a shit about the lives of the thousands and millions of innocent people our sanctions kill (Iraq is a good example), but our leaders have all proven to be cold-hearted thugs (including the Democratic ones).

These people don't give a damn about regular people and too many Americans, including you apparently, seem proud of that fact.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
40. Well ...... not really.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:27 PM
Jan 2016

These figures are also relevant in terms of another important question. The former chairman of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatars, Mustafa Dzhemilev, has repeatedly stated that all Tatars on the peninsula are opposed to reunification with Russia. Dzhemilev’s statements have been widely quoted by the media, which present them as entirely authoritative and undisputed.

But let’s think about that – Crimean Tatars make up 12% of the Crimean population, yet only 4% of those polled conveyed disapproval of Crimea’s reunification with Russia. And that 4% very likely includes not only Tatars, but also Ukrainians and citizens of other ethnicities. There’s an inconsistency here. Of course, further study is needed on this issue, but the results obtained by GFK cast doubt on whether Mustafa Dzhemilev or the entire Mejlis of the Crimean Tatars is an accurate barometer of the feelings of the Crimean Tatar community.

Those few respondents who disapproved reunification were then asked “Why do you fully or mostly disapprove annexation?” Only 20% of them (i.e., less than 1% of the total sample) claimed that they preferred to live in the state of Ukraine. The most common response, offered by 55% of those who opposed reunification, was “Annexations was not fully legitimate, it should be brought into accord with the international law.” Which means that, in theory, they do not object to the idea of living in Russia, but rather question the legitimacy of the transition.



pampango

(24,692 posts)
69. No they did not. Putin's own Council on Human Rights said 20-25% of Crimean voters voted Yes.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 08:45 PM
Jan 2016
Vladimir Putin’s own Council on the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights has confirmed that the turnout for the so-called “referendum” on the Crimea’s status was much lower than reported, and the results also far less overwhelmingly in favour of joining Russia. The same results have been reported from other sources, however this report can hardly be dismissed as seditious US propaganda. The confirmation that Russia used falsified figures to justify the annexation comes on the eve of other supposed “referendums” planned for two east Ukrainian oblasts.

The report finds that while the overwhelming majority of residents of Sevastopol voted for joining Russian (turnout of 50-80%), the turnout for all of Crimea was from 30-50% and only 50-60% of those voted for joining Russia.

The official figures claim that the turnout for the Crimea was 83.1% with 96.77% in favour of the Crimea becoming a part of Russia.

This discrepancy mars still further the already questionable reputation of those members of far-right and neo-Stalinist parties whom Russia invited to “observe” the event. None found anything untoward about the running of the vote or the alleged result.

http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1399238176

From the analysis of the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights: If one takes the midpoint of the 30-50% turnout - 40% - and the midpoint of the 50-60% who voted Yes - 55% - you get a figure of 22% of Crimean voters who voted for Crimea to join with Russia.

It is also noteworthy that the 'election monitors' came from 'far-right and neo-Stalinist' (and fascist, like Golden Dawn) parties in Europe

pampango

(24,692 posts)
73. I'll talk about human rights all I want whether you like it or not. Liberals who do not talk about
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:45 PM
Jan 2016

human rights are not real liberals.

BTW, I was referencing a study done by Putin’s Council on the Development of Civil Society and Human Rights. If you don't like discussions involving human rights, take it up with Mr. Putin and tell him to get rid of that council.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
74. As will I.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:49 PM
Jan 2016

I'll also talk about dirty economic wars against 37 million people all I like, disgusting coups, the REALITY of the Crimean people voting in a democratic process to join Russia, etc. etc. etc.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
37. A whole people, predominantly of Russian culture, chose to go to where
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:21 PM
Jan 2016

they felt safe from the brutal new overlords of Ukraine.

They voted, overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine. They were immediately threatened by the brutal coup-sponsored 'gov't' with the loss of their native language, what other fears do you think they might have had, a people predominantly of Russian culture suddenly confronted with that kind of hatred and threat???

The fascist right-wingers handed them to Russia on a silver platter ..... they went willingly.

There were picture after pictures of them lined up to vote, ordinary people wanting to get the hell of a place they were being treated as the enemy right from the start of the brutal coup.

?w=736&h=491&l=50&t=40
Two women hold flags reading "Crimea is with Russia" as people wait for the announcement of preliminary results of today's referendum on Lenin Square in the Crimean capital of SimferopolReuters

Crimea parliament has formally voted to declare independence from Ukraine following an overwhelming outcome from the referendum to secede from Kiev rule and join Russia, according to reports.

A formal application to join Russia was sent after 93% of Crimea residents reportedly voted in favour of the split, in a referendum that the US and the EU say violates the Ukrainian constitution and international law.


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-crimea-votes-join-russia-eu-us-eye-sanctions-1440572


With Crimea's electorate composed mostly of ethnic Russians, the referendum was widely expected to support a split from Ukraine. While the Kiev government called the vote illegitimate and other countries saying they won't recognize the outcome, exit polls cited by officials reported that 93% of Crimean voters supported joining the Russian Federation. That number increased to 95% once half of the ballots were counted. As voting concluded, huge crowds gathered in the Crimean capital of Simferopol to celebrate the outcome.

Evgeny Feldman, a staff photographer for the Russian publication Novaya Gazeta, spent the day in Crimea's main cities, Simferopol and Sevastopol, as the vote progressed under the watchful eyes of masked soldiers aligned with Russia.



People celebrate in Lenin Square, in the Crimean capital of Simferopol, after a reported 95% of people voted to make the peninsula a part of Russia.


The crowd celebrates, waving Russian flags, in front of a statue of Lenin in Simferopol.


Local residents, including a police officer, show identification to get their ballots from election commission members in Simferopol.


A woman votes in Simferopol: Little tension could be seen in the voting booths, where most voters appeared to choose to make Crimea a part of Russia.



A Simferopol voter lets her son cast her ballot during the first hour of voting.

http://mashable.com/2014/03/16/crimea-votes-the-day-in-pictures/



German Sociologists on Crimea’s Choice


by Konstanin Kosaretsky / February 11th, 2015

The attitudes of Crimeans were studied in January 2015. This representative sample included 800 respondents living on the peninsula, from all age and social categories. The poll had an error margin of 3.5%.

In answer to the most important question: “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?” 82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,” and another 11% – “yes, for the most part.” Only 2% gave an unambiguously negative response, and another 2% offered a relatively negative assessment. Three percent did not specify their position.

We feel that this study fully validates the results of the referendum on reunification with Russia that was held on March 16, 2014. At that time 83% of Crimeans went to the polling stations and almost 97% expressed support for reunification.

Ukrainians continue to question whether this was a credible outcome, but it is now backed up by the data obtained by the Germans. The 82% of the respondents who expressed their full confidence in the results of the Russian election make up the core of the electorate who turned up at the ballot boxes on March 16, 2014.


And now the moment of truth: “What is your opinion of what is being written by the Ukrainian media about Crimea?” Who could be a more objective judge on this issue than the residents of the peninsula themselves? Who else but they – who have been fated to experience all the pros and cons of both Ukrainian and Russian citizenship – could better evaluate the accuracy of the information being published? Perhaps no one.


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/02/german-sociologists-on-crimeas-choice/

"Who could be a more objective judge on this issue than the residents of the peninsula themselves?" Who indeed?


Putin foiled the neo-con plans for Syria. Which is why all of this started in the first place. So of course he, and by association, the 37 million Russian people, according to some, are the most hated, aggressive people in the world at the moment. It's pre-Iraq deja vu, or groundhog day, if you consider Libya or any other country not bowing down to the west. The same people are now celebrating their suffering because of sanctions for stopping regime change in Syria and taking in those who didn't choose to be abused by their coup-sponsored, brutal new rulers.


nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
45. Thanks for your work in putting this together
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:56 PM
Jan 2016

The naysayers continually say this didn't happen because CNN or MSNBC didn't talk about it, and that's about the extent of their knowledge of world affairs.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
48. Yes, for many.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:03 PM
Jan 2016

For others though, it's just pure hatred. I noticed when the Olympics in Russia first opened how bad it was. There's been an agenda at play here for a long, long time, imo.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
63. I guess I don't really understand the
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 06:57 PM
Jan 2016

utter, long-running hatred that some Americans have for the Russians - I'll have to look more into it but it's definitely a real and tangible hatred.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
28. Petro states have always had a bad time.
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:07 PM
Jan 2016

It boggles my mind why they fail over and over again to diversify.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
38. Petro states do just fine if they're not targets of war, either militarily or by terroristic
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 05:23 PM
Jan 2016

sanctions, or bought and paid for coups.

Joe Chi Minh

(15,229 posts)
29. Apparently, commercially the devaluation is a boon for Russian exports. I'll
Tue Jan 26, 2016, 04:16 PM
Jan 2016

try to find the link. Moreover, the sanctions have woken them up to the desirability of developing their domestic market.

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