Feds Want Warrantless Spying Loss Overturned, Saying the Law Can’t Touch Them

[IDemo]

Source: Wired

The Obama administration is set to argue to a federal appeals court Friday that the government may breach, with impunity, domestic spying laws adopted in the wake of President Richard M. Nixon’s Watergate scandal.

The case tests whether Americans may seek recourse or monetary damages when a sitting U.S. president bypasses Congress’s ban on warrantless spying on Americans — in this instance when President George W. Bush authorized his secret, warrantless domestic spying program in the aftermath of the September 2001 terror attacks.

A federal judge found in 2010 that two American lawyers’ telephone conversations with their clients in Saudi Arabia in 2004 were siphoned to the National Security Agency without warrants. The allegations were initially based on a classified document the government accidentally mailed to the former al-Haramain Islamic Foundation lawyers.

The document was later declared a state secret, removed from the long-running lawsuit and has never been made public. With that document ruled out as evidence, the lawyers instead cited a bevy of circumstantial evidence that a judge found showed the government illegally wiretapped the lawyers as they spoke on U.S. soil to Saudi Arabia.

Read more: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/warrantless-spying-challenge/

[gratuitous]

1. These are Stalinesque policies

This is indefensible; the stuff of secret police and the gulag.

Shame on the Department of Justice.

[awoke_in_2003]

8. Shame on the president. nt

[OnyxCollie]

2. Obama equals Bush.

K&R.

[snooper2]

11. Just like gravel equals a hairdryer

[OnyxCollie]

12. Oh, look.

One of the President's most ardent fans is trying to convince me that my assessment of Obama is incorrect.

Yawn. Still gullible, I guess. I knew the President was a sell-out when he voted to give retroactive immunity to the telecoms back in 2008.

"We'll fix it later!" they said. Bullshit.

[msongs]

3. obama can kill with impunity so why not some unconstitutional spying violations nt

[woo me with science]

4. I never want to hear that it's only the Republicans doing this, again. nt

[boppers]

30. It's been every administration since the 40's.

*Every* *single* *one*.

The "news" seems to be that people are "shocked" to hear of it.

[DeSwiss]

5. K&R

All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.

Who controls the past, controls the future.
Who controls the present, controls the past.

- George Orwell

[woo me with science]

6. DU Rec. nt

[Solly Mack]

7. K&R

[BlueIris]

9. Wire tapping without warrants is weak.

It's the kind of thing weak fascists do.

[librechik]

10. I refuse to believe this is "Obama's Justice Dept"

except for Holder, practically all the exact same folks who fucked things up for the Bush administration are still in place, burrowed in and refusing to budge on anything. They do what they want and defy Obama's wishes. He has too little leverage to defeat them.

It's the only thing that makes sense to me--that department is untouchable.

[OnyxCollie]

13. They serve at the pleasure of the President.

Obama chose not to replace the US Attorneys.

Edit to add: Or they were replaced with Republicans.

[librechik]

16. why? Isn't that VERY unusual? (yes, it is--unprecedented)

what could possibly explain that? except that Obama was UNABLE to do it. They have a hold on him at DOJ. He can't move. I refuse to believe he doesn't know what the right thing to do is, or refuses to do the right thing because of some hidden conservative agenda. There is something holding him back besides himself.

Do I have to mention JFK and Bobby?

[OnyxCollie]

18. "what could possibly explain that? except that Obama was UNABLE to do it."

Or he wanted that. Are you unable to believe that the man who signed the NDAA and stopped investigations both here and abroad of Bush's torture program would not want to have a politicized Justice Department?

[librechik]

27. where is your evidence that Obama 'Wants" a politicized DOJ?

I still don't see any--only your speculation, however grounded it may be in bits and pieces of things that make you suspicious.

[OnyxCollie]

28. The President could have replaced all 93 US Attorneys when he took office (like Clinton did.)

He could have made recess appointments to get around Republican obstruction.

He chose not to.

You are the one doing all the speculation, that Obama wanted to make changes, but couldn't.

[woo me with science]

15. Good god.

Based on WHAT?

HE chose to keep those people there. Good god, this fantasy of the helpless, unwilling President is beyond absurd.

There is not one scintilla of evidence that he disagrees with any of what they are doing. Not one.

We will NEVER solve this problem as long as Democrats refuse to face reality.

[librechik]

17. what on earth are you suggesting? and where is a scintilla of evidence for THAT?

The reality is that Obama is stuck with the BUSH DOJ. They did things to get there guys in there and keep them there. What could Obama have done? Try to replace the USAs with an obstructionist Repub party in place? Try to defy the (whatever--blackmail, assassination threats) that the various covert govt oligarchies have in play to force gim to do the unprecedented act of not replacing the USas etc?

What is your suggestion of what our all powerful president can do against those who refuse to obey him within his own govt?

Read Ron Suskind's "Confidence Men" if you think I'm kidding about his executive minions refusing to obey his direct orders. Look at Geithner and the DEA. Obama can do very little against the system in place. You are the one dreaming of a hero to rescue us. I am facing the reality, as unknown and dark as it may be.

[OnyxCollie]

19. Obama is not stuck with the Bush DoJ.

Educate yourself.

US Attorneys and Game Theory
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8807073&mesg_id=8809373

[librechik]

20. so--copious evidence that the process is corrupt and flawed, for DECADES

and yet Obama gets the blame for not breaking the Gordian Knot. Oh, he has so much political capital to just force his way in, right> Did you glace at Suskind's evidence that Obama is openly defied by his employees?

Whatever, We will not convince each other. You go ahead and believe Obama is a secret agent for the MIC. I think he signed up just before he was born in Kenya. Good luck with that at the ballot box.

[OnyxCollie]

22. You have trouble with reading comprehension.

And neither Anwar Al-Awlaki, Abdul-Rahman al-Awlaki, nor I can convince you that Barack Obama is not God-like.

[librechik]

23. personal attacks on my intellect--great! You win! n/t

[OnyxCollie]

24. Biased and eisegetic is not stupid.

Of course, if I have to explain that to you...

[librechik]

25. You win again! Your strategy is priceless!

I'm in a good mood today--otherwise you would get 3 alerts for your last 3 responses.

Enjoy your forum stay!

[OnyxCollie]

26. Gosh! Empty threats from an anonymous poster.

I'm ascared!

[woo me with science]

14. Kick. nt

[mahatmakanejeeves]

21. Mr. Obama, tear down these loss.

As I post, no one has gotten around to making the correction at Wired. I took a picture.

[boppers]

29. So, it's always been legal to tap the calls they're complaining about.

"with their clients in Saudi Arabia".

That's all I need to know, if a call leaves US borders, it's tappable, no warrant needed. Been that way for over 100 years, folks.