Vegetable fat not the route to a healthy heart, study finds

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Source: AFP

Paris (AFP) - Replacing animal fat in the human diet with vegetable oil seems not to lower heart disease risk, and might even boost it, according to a study published Wednesday that challenges a cornerstone of dietary advice.

Switching from saturated to unsaturated Omega-6 fats did result in lower blood cholesterol in a trial with nearly 10,000 participants, it said, but not the expected reduction in heart disease deaths.

In fact, those with a greater reduction in cholesterol "had a higher rather than a lower risk of death," according to the research published by the medical journal BMJ.

For 50-odd years, animal fat in meat, butter, cheese and cream has been the bad boy of the diet world -- blamed for boosting artery-clogging cholesterol linked to heart disease and stroke.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/vegetable-fat-not-route-healthy-heart-study-finds-234028515.html

[djean111]

1. Ha! I have pretty much stuck to low carb my whole life. Not a "diet" - what I eat. Normally.

Butter butter butter butter. Hollandaise on everything. Fairly low cholesterol. No meds. I will be sticking with butter.
Thanks for the article.

[Major Nikon]

3. The role of diet in blood cholesterol is not as significant as some might believe

[grasswire]

4. and the role of cholesterol in coronary artery disease is not what...

.....we were told for decades.

It is not cholesterol that causes CAD. It is inflammation. An anti-inflammatory diet is the way to go. Pan-Asian anti-inflammatory.

[abelenkpe]

8. What is this pan Asian diet you mention?

Is it yummy? Are there recipes?

[7962]

37. Here you go:

https://heartmdinstitute.com/diet-nutrition/dr-sinatras-pamm-anti-inflammatory-diet/

[abelenkpe]

40. Thank you!

[7962]

6. Yes, I know some folks who do EVERYTHING right, but still need medicine

Its really a genetic crapshoot as to what we all have to deal with.
One of the coaches in my old high school was a fitness beast. Jogged, lifted weights, ate well. Yet he still needed two different heart surgeries simply because he had bad genetics. he always said, "i'm in great shape, I've just got crappy arteries"

[Major Nikon]

10. I'm in the opposite end of the spectrum

My doctor told me I have the lowest LDL numbers she's ever seen from someone not on statin drugs.

[djean111]

35. I am not trying to "do everything right", and yes, I know genetics plays a huge part.

I am just saying I am doing well, because there have years and years of hearing butter and eggs and meat are bad. Add veggies like broccoli and asparagus, and that would describe my diet. Because it tastes good and I am doing okay health-wise. More of an anti "those will kill ya!" statement then a "I don't really eat everything I want to because of health concerns" statement.

[djean111]

33. I am not surprised, and my doctor says I just need to do more exercise in order to lower

mine more. I also keep away from processed and chemical-laden foods by default, all have high carbs. And specially made "low carb" food. Sweet-leaf stevia and butter and spices. Watch the additives. I am decidedly not a health nut.

I cannot honestly say I low carb because of any medical benefits - I just feel better, keep weight off, and, at 70, I am doing well. I might splurge once in a while, but I do think of "diet" as what I eat, not as some strict regimen. Always cracks me up when someone loses weight on a diet, and then whines when they don't keep it off when they go back to their "regular diet". Which is what made them need to lose weight.

[Major Nikon]

41. I always say go on a diet to lose weight, exercise to keep it off

Regular exercise cures all sorts of ills. Weighing yourself once a month or so also isn't a bad idea. The scales will tell you when you need to adjust your balance between calories in and out.

I eat plenty of carbs, but just more found in vegetables, whole grains, and legumes and less from breads, fruit, and supplemental sugar.

[TalkingDog]

7. I've poo-pooed the cholesterol, "better" fat shinola for years.

The Spousal Unit and I are heading toward 60 and neither of us is on any meds.

[Warpy]

58. Not all of it is Shinola. Trans fats like those in solid cooking fats, processed foods, and some

margarines are definitely some of the worst things you can eat, amazing that for many years, those were prescribed as "good" fats.

The truth is that 90% of your cholesterol load is produced in your liver. You'd die without it. Food only supplies about 10% of the load. If you've got high cholesterol, the best way to lower it is a statin drug. Those are proven lifesavers for people genetically predisposed to having choesterol >250, often in the 400 range.

In the meantime, I'm thrilled that my use of butter over margarine has been vindicated. On the menu today: musrooms sauteed in a little butter with a grating of nutmeg, a few slivers of Jarlsberg, all on toast. Yum.

[TalkingDog]

59. The article was comparing "good" fats (vegetable oils, olive oil) to lard, butter, etc.

Transfats are not food. I haven't had margarine in decades. (at least not in my house)

And if you are going to start describing food, you might have to invite me over.

[pansypoo53219]

14. food is basically a butter delivery system.

[djean111]

32. Yes! Exactly!

And not only do most foods taste better with Hollandaise sauce on it, but if there were Hollandaise ice cream, I would pour warm Hollandaise sauce on top of it.

[houston16revival]

2. I was hearing this research 15 years ago

Omega 6 is the one to avoid to the extent you can, though you will get some
of it from many forms of fat

Omega 3 and 9 are the good stuff, so is fish oil with EPA

I personally avoid soybean oil, and the poly-unsaturateds as well

Whole dairy fat has its place in diet too

Avoid fried fats, some oils can be heated - canola, sesame -
and some cannot, they become rancid at high heat

Coconut oil in small amounts is good too

I was once diagnosed as allergic to palm kernel oil, I don't eat
a lot of it

Pay attention to the composition of margarines, they vary a lot

Oil extraction can be low temp pressed, heat, or chemical

Hydrogenated oils are pretty much gone now

Lard is now said to be better than shortening, which contains nickel
residue from the hydrogenation process

Moderation in all things, and mix them up well

[JudyM]

42. Exactly: avoid omega 6 and boost omega 3 and monounsaturated... Olive oil, fish oil.

Anti inflammatory is supposed to be the way to go, not sure why even talk about omega6/corn oil...

[houston16revival]

44. It's complicated

I wonder if most people realize the implications of what we posted?

Also some of the cheaper oils have propyl gallate preservative

This was an allergen for a family member

Olive oil should be extra virgin, and should not be heated

Chemical extraction is basically what - paint thinner? or Benzene? which
is then allowed to evaporate

residue remains.

Oooh, I have a headache with it all

[JudyM]

45. Lol, yep.

[onehandle]

5. Bacon in every meal is therefore healthy...

...is all most people will glean from that headline.

[TexasBushwhacker]

19. Actually, crispy bacon is pretty low fat n/t

[GliderGuider]

38. I eat a diet that is almost all meat, and about half bacon.

I have for three years now. I'm far healthier than when I started. Before adopting this diet I'd spent 5 years as a vegetarian, and I ended up overweight, with high blood pressure, GERD and edema. All fixed now.

An all-meat diet may not be appropriate for everyone, but there's little about it that is intrinsically unhealthy - so long as one gets enough vitamin C.

[Orrex]

9. I'm going to check again in a few weeks...

So that I can learn the most current and entirely contradictory dietary proclamations.

[Major Nikon]

11. Life is like a shit sandwich...

[djean111]

36. I think people are just sharing what works for them.

I just think of the word "diet" as "stuff I eat because I like it". So many years of being told butter and eggs are killers. I promptly ignored that, and yes, those dire warnings even change from time to time. So feh.

[bananas]

12. This should call into question the value of statins. nt

[grasswire]

15. absolutely, absolutely. nt

[Person 2713]

16. Everyone I know who is taking these at middle age has acquired additional issues

Circumstantial ? Hell yes, but popping a pill instead of addressing diet never seemed like a good idea to me , so I have noticed what came of those taking pills. I understand some can not control with diet but how many offered statins even try food change ?
Also, so much has come out about side effects of statins now
I have never had high readings but eat plenty of fat via coconut products and nut products

[Nye Bevan]

46. "I can eat anything now I'm on statins".

Has anyone else heard this statement? I have. Statins are largely a con.

[Person 2713]

13. Coconut oil has higher saturated fat than butter but I consider it healthy

A balance ratio of O6 to O3 is hard to achieve on the standard American diet
Some of this due to all the processed unsaturated vegetable oils used

Did you know that multiple studies on Pacific Island populations, who get 30-60% of their total caloric intact from fully saturated coconut oil, have all shown nearly non-existent rates of cardiovascular disease?

Even though coconut oil is a healthy fat, it is important to use unrefined coconut oil to get the best and most nutritious oil

[alfredo]

17. It Coconut oil and butter are great in coffee.

[phylny]

18. And ghee. n/t

[Person 2713]

20. Ghee in coffee? I will have to try that sometime!

[phylny]

22. Bulletproof Coffee recipe

2 cups hot coffee
2 T unsalted, grass-fed butter or ghee
2T organic extra-virgin coconut oil or MCT oil
optional: 1/2 tsp unsweetened cocoa powder or 1/2 tsp ground cinnamon

Place all ingredients in a blender and blend for a few seconds until creamy and frothy

[dinkytron]

23. Tried it. Kind of hangs on my tongue. Can't do it.

[phylny]

31. i'm not a coffee drinker, so I'd NEVER do it :) n/t

[alfredo]

39. It's not like any coffee you've tasted.

[yourpaljoey]

51. Potent yak-butter for me

Now where did I put that yak!?

[alfredo]

57. It's out bak

[Javaman]

67. this is the latest trendy fad...

I have been having my Sunday coffee with butter for the past 40 years.

I have always known it's yummy, it's only now people think it's just so special.

years ago, people though me crazy for doing it.

[alfredo]

70. I've been doing it for a long time too, but the coconut oil is new.

I like butter tea.

[Javaman]

71. see for me, I love dipping. as in dipping buttered toast in my coffee.

while the butter thing is old hat, another thing I do, and will probably become a fad after this is (and don't laugh) peanut butter oil.

It's soooo freaking good.

it's another thing I have done as well for about the past 40 years.

again, discovered by dipping toast with peanut butter into my coffee.

[alfredo]

73. I use Ceyanne or Cumin

[burrowowl]

21. K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. ...

[scottie55]

25. Eat To Live Diet - Forget The Rest

This diet and walking every night, no need for heart surgery. Ever.

https://www.drfuhrman.com/weightloss/about.aspx

For the 99% of us who do not have genetic high cholesterol and want to be healthy.

And feel good too.

[Mojorabbit]

26. k&R nt

[womanofthehills]

27. Actually there is research out there

connecting low cholesterol to cancer. Niacin is an easy way to lower cholesterol - but at this point who knows if you want to lower it.
All the info keeps changing. Among my friends, I can tell who is on a cholesterol lowering drug, because their memories are gone. I recently had a very overweight friend die of cancer - she was obese and had really low cholesterol and this did not make sense to me so I started checking it out online.

Low LDL cholesterol in patients with no history of taking cholesterol-lowering drugs predates cancer risk by decades, suggesting there may be some underlying mechanism affecting both cancer and low LDL cholesterol that requires further examination, according to research presented March 25 at the American College of Cardiology's 61st Annual Scientific Session.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120326113713.htm

[madokie]

28. As a kid I ate what was on the table

as an adult I still do that. I worry not about any of the foods I eat other than if I like its taste. If I do I eat it. Butter, I love it and use as much as a recipe allows when I cook. Drink cows milk pretty much every day. The last few years I've been trying to eat three fish based meals a month. I love properly cleaned fried catfish

total cholesterol for me is 150, lots of good and very little bad.

68 YO.

[jtuck004]

29. "Of course, this does not mean doctors have been misleading us about the benefits of vegetable oils.

http://time.com/4291505/when-vegetable-oil-isnt-as-healthy-as-you-think/

"...Of course, this does not mean doctors have been misleading us about the benefits of vegetable oils. While the study didn’t explore what could account for the contrary results, there are some theories about how the vegetable-oil group could have lower cholesterol but not fewer heart problems than people eating animal fats. The unsaturated fats found in vegetable oils, when they’re heated, tend to oxidize. In this form, they’re more dangerous to body tissues and can trigger inflammation, a known risk factor for making blood-vessel plaques unstable enough to cause a heart attack.

It’s also possible that the sheer amount of oils that the people ate reversed any advantage for the heart. Ramsden says the amount in the study was about double what the average American tends to eat, and in this case, it might be a situation where those people got too much of a good thing.

He also found that the effect was strongest among people over age 65. Older people tend to be more prone to oxidative stress, and it’s possible that with age, eating too much vegetable oil may backfire, and undo some of the benefits they may have on the heart. Similarly, people who smoke and engage in other behaviors that are known to promote oxidation, including getting exposed to certain environmental pollutants, might also show little benefit from switching to vegetable oils.
..."

Interesting how 45 year-old data can be re-interpreted.

[flamingdem]

54. Several years ago I read about the oxidization of vegetable oil when cooked

and this includes the beloved olive oil.

Told this to a Spanish friend and she became incredibly angry at me - even though she had gotten lymphoma - luckily cured now but she wouldn't hear of it and used a ton of olive oil, boiling, to cook.

[jtuck004]

55. I wonder how long most people have been sitting before reading all this...

https://vimeo.com/127425586
http://gizmodo.com/a-one-minute-explanation-of-why-sitting-is-bad-for-your-1703811872


Another...

"...
According to the BBC, scientists say that reducing your sitting time to three hours a day can add two years to your life expectancy. And it's not just sitting that's a problem, apparently -- any position that you adopt for long periods of time can have risks:

Adopting any one posture for a long time is bad, says Jane White from the Institution of Occupational Safety and Health. "Some of the [Metropolitan Police Service officers] recently collapsed at a passing out ceremony from standing up for too long. It's being static that's the health issue -- it slows down the circulatory system, blood, oxygen, and vital nutrients."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-sitting-all-day-is-killing-you/
..."

Humans, at least in my experience, are really bad at discerning the most immediate risks.

[greymouse]

30. tired of first one thing and then the opposite.

I have seen enough of these long term values later turn out to be wrong, that I eat what the heck I want.

[hollowdweller]

43. Vegetarians have less heart disease than meat eaters. So what is it in the diet that helps?

[leftyladyfrommo]

47. I think it depends on what kind of a vegetarian diet you are on.

You have to eat well - lots of fruit and vegetables, whole grains, lentils. I base my diet on brown rice, beans, lentils and dried peas and yams. Then I try to be sure and eat lots of fruit and vegies every day. Almost no sugar and low salt. Have to cook everything myself. My diet is really simple because I am really not into cooking. But eating this way keeps me feeling good. And drink lots of water.

I also eat eggs and greek yogurt and kefir and cook with butter to give stuff a better flavor.

You can be a vegetarian and eat junk food and be just as overweight and unhealthy as anybody else who eats a bunch of junk.

[Odin2005]

60. Most Vegetarians in the West tend to be more aware of what they eat.

IMO it has nothing to do with their diet per se, but that vegetarians, vegans especially have to put in more thought to the food they buy. Atkins and similar low-carb diets probably work for the same reason.

[closeupready]

48. The main fats I use are traditional ones - butter, olive oil, grapeseed oil.

I'll use bacon fat to scramble eggs if I'm making breakfast.

Refined carbs will bust your waistline every time, IME. That is the culprit in rising obesity rates.

[Babel_17]

49. canola oil omega 3 omega 6 ratio

http://chriskresser.com/how-too-much-omega-6-and-not-enough-omega-3-is-making-us-sick/

I switched to using a canola based vegetarian Mayo, "Just Mayo".

I grind flax seeds I buy in bulk in a coffee grinder for my smoothies.

Feels like a good choice.

https://www.hamptoncreek.com/news

I'm have no stake in that company, nor am I a spokesperson for big flax.

[Javaman]

50. from the 1973 Woody Allen movie "Sleeper"

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.

[IDemo]

52. Glad I'm not the only one to think of that scene whenever a thread like this pops up

[closeupready]

56. That part always got a chuckle out of me.

[restorefreedom]

53. what bullshit propoganda

anyone with any nutrition training knows already that omega 6 fats are bad, its the omega 3 that we need. we could have known the results before they even did this bogus study.

which was no doubt paid for by the meat and dairy council.....

[Odin2005]

61. LOL.

[restorefreedom]

62. you find misleading health information funny? nt

[Odin2005]

63. I find conspiracy nonsense funny.

[restorefreedom]

64. glad i gave you a laugh

but many "studies" are financed by the very industries (big ag, big pharma etc) that would benefit from a particular result.

you call it ct, i call it propoganda disguised as research. not all of it, but a good chunk sadly.

[Javaman]

66. you may want to google the difference between nutritionist and dietitian. nt

[restorefreedom]

68. because.......nt

[Javaman]

69. one is accredited by college degree (dietitian) and the other is not. nt

[sendero]

65. Heart attacks in the USA...

... were practically non-existent until the introduction of vegetable oils. The whole idea that there was a health benefit to eating them was manufactured from whole cloth using bogus statistics to make ingestion of these oils popular.

Human consumption of animal fats has been happening for centuries and centuries. Veg fats are new. And the instance of heart disease (and artery disease) closely correlates with the adoption of vegetable oils in the diet.

[Javaman]

72. + a billion!