Occupy Wall Street just reoccupied Zucotti Park!

[backscatter712]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/9824271

Just from watching the livestream - looks like OWS caught the NYPD with their pants down - they outnumbered them, pushed them out of the park, and now they've torn down the metal barricades and threw them into a big pile!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. From the New York Times

Protesters Surge Back Into Zuccotti Park

More than 300 people associated with the Occupy Wall Street movement gathered in Zuccotti Park on Saturday and, in a return to scenes from earlier in the year, held a general assembly meeting, chanted the now familiar slogan “We are the 99 percent” and experienced a bit of friction with security guards.

At about 7 p.m. on New Year’s Eve, about 100 people started flowing into the park, according to witnesses, and someone erected what was described as a small tent built for a child. Two young girls, who were at the park with their mother, began playing inside.

Though the New York City Police Department had officers fanned out throughout the city for the holiday, there were police officers lined up across the street from Zuccotti Park, at the ready alongside private security guards. They stepped in.

Police officers and security guards instructed protesters to remove the tent, saying it violated rules issued by the park’s owner, Brookfield Properties, banning tents, tarps and other structures inside the square. Meanwhile, a police officer and a security guard, who declined to identify themselves, tried to block other protesters, and at least one reporter, from entering the park. Some people disregarded their instructions and squeezed their bodies through the spaces between metal barricades.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/protesters-surge-back-into-zuccotti-park/?hp

Yup, the media is waking to this too.

[fascisthunter]

119. Happy News Year!

[midnight]

127. "A police commander announced through a megaphone that the park, which is normally open 24 hours

a day, was closed until 9 a.m., but did not provide a reason." Sounds like Lawlessness...

[villager]

2. Great new year's news!

[freshwest]

4. Oh gosh, I just saw the post made after this one first. About all hell breaking loose.

[sandyd921]

3. I'm streaming what's going on on Timcast

Best stream: http://www.ustream.tv/timcast

[freshwest]

5. Thanks, it looks like everything's cool now.

[midnight]

128. Thanks for the link...

[Renew Deal]

6. This is pretty great.

I wonder how many more people are planning on being there.

[Bozita]

7. Love it! ... Go Occupy!

[Warpy]

8. I love that they tore down all the barricades and stacked them

Now the cops are grabbing them and putting them together with zip cuffs.

All they need is somebody with a pair of sharp scissors.

[certainot]

20. garden shears

[Bluenorthwest]

9. The Future Awaits/The Struggle Continues

Happy Occupied New Year to all!

[sandyd921]

11. Happy Occupied New Year to you too!

May this be a year in which justice prevails!

[dotymed]

14. Hopefully, EVERYONE will Occupy

Until Justice prevails. This IS the era of the 99%.

[onehandle]

10. Good. It's a fairly mild night, but the cold is coming.

Bundle up, OWSers.

[mvd]

18. Just imagine what we can do starting in the spring!

I know it's going to be a better year for me and a good year for Occupy.

Happy New Year, DU!

[Odin2005]

12. WOOT!!!

[freshwest]

13. Timcast showing what looks like an electronic board down the street with an upraised fist on it...

Timcast guy says January 17th is Occupy Congress Day...

Right now he's talking to the cops at the barricade, they seem friendly. Says having a chat on his webpage, too.

Also talking to people on the street, seems like a good spirited affair at this time. It's really quite a beautiful event, a lovely place, the trees are lit up with those white Christmas lights.

I haven't been in an attractive urban environment at night like this in years. Very nice.

Timcast is still talking away. A police officer asked about the streaming and seemed to accept as he said more than 3K people watching now. It's much more personable than I expected, I guess that's the NYC style.

[Jester Messiah]

15. Right on!! [nt]

[Cleita]

16. The streaming has been difficult but so inspiring every time

I can get it. I love them.

[4dsc]

17. Good time in NYC

Good to see this live.

[gateley]

19. Great way to begin the New Year! Happy New Year, OWS! nt

[Generic Other]

21. 2AM eastern time

still marching!!

[Mosaic]

22. This is the year

Big things start to happen.

[GliderGuider]

24. Away we go!

No more rehearsals, it's show-time.

[a2liberal]

23. yay! (n/t)

[Jack Rabbit]

25. God bless OWS!!

Power to the people.

[SkyLlama]

26. I try to support them but...

I can't. What do they honestly think they're accomplishing?

Any honest person will tell you nothing.

[randome]

27. The true heroes of 2011 are in Wisconsin.

The people organizing the recall elections, especially the recall of Governor Walker.

The guy who made the fake Koch phone call to Walker.

These are the people who are actually getting things done.

[tavalon]

28. Sure they are. Absolutely! That said, 2011 and 2012 are turning out to be years when

we all get to be heroes if we choose to. We've found our voice and they (the politicians, the 1%ers) will hear us roar.

We really are waking up to history. I was too young to live in times like the sixties or the civil rights movement but I think I'm going to find out what it was like, close up and personal. I think anyone who chooses this year to be a part of the change really will get the opportunity. What an opportunity!

[midnight]

130. Especially some of those brave souls collecting signatures in Waukesha...

[Speed8098]

30. You frame your post in such a way that I find offensive

Any honest person will tell you nothing.


That sentence alone is disingenuous. I am an honest person and I'm happy to tell you what they are accomplishing.

They are publicizing the fact that big money is the main influence in our government. They are showing the world what Capitalist greed does to a society with a majority that is middle class. They are trumpeting that financial institutions in this country are nothing more than self serving fascists that don't give a rats ass about those of us in the middle class. They are showing the world that the so called "job creators" only create jobs in third world countries so they can exploit cheap labor and bribe those governments to look the other way while they drive the slave labor.

These are just a few of the accomplishments they've made and the list goes on and on. and for your information, this movement involves all parties, not just my liberal friends.

If you don't wish to support them, that's your choice but don't come into my neighborhood and try to convince my neighbors and I that you think you know something you don't.

[klook]

32. +99 (n/t)

[sandyd921]

39. And you hit the nail on the head! n/t

[stopwastingmymoney]

44. Thank you!

[Doctor_J]

46. Will they help take the country back from the fascists in this year's elections?

Have they softened the rhetoric of the Repukes? Have they made a difference in how the government is serving the people? Your paragraph doesn't point out any accomplishments at all.

[unlawflcombatnt]

48. It's a start

No protest movements have ever made a difference in the beginning. It takes time and persistence.

And you're wrong about the Occupy movement not making any difference.

Occupy Oakland has shut down the port of Oakland on at least 2 different occasions, stopping activity at the port on those days.

That reduces imports from foreign countries. Though those 2 days don't make a lot of difference, they do make some. And every little bit counts.

[randome]

50. The efforts in Wisconsin are making real differences.

The stuff you talk about is all about messaging and fiddling about at the edges of our problems.

Shutting down the Oakland port did nothing substantial. Working to recall Governor Walker and some of his minions are where the real revolution is occurring.

And all that 'reduces imports' stuff? I'm sure it's been more than made up for by now.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

79. The two organizations are not mutually exclusive. nt

[Synicus Maximus]

77. It made a difference to the union workers who lost 2 days wages not much else

[Remember Me]

87. they didn't lose wages -- they were compensated because

the ports were called by their unions as "not safe" ( or whatever the official phrase in their contract is), so they were paid for the time off.

[Speed8098]

57. I'm not the "Magic 8 Ball" but "All signs point to yes"

Have they softened the rhetoric of the Repukes?

First of all you immediately lose any debate in which you stoop to the level of the immature changing titles of the opposing party. I don't like to be called a DemoCrap and I don't like seeing the word Repuke. All it does is trumpet immaturity. If you truly want to change the rhetoric, begin with your own.


Have they made a difference in how the government is serving the people?

Well, I would say the capitulation of the Republican majority in the House on the payroll tax issue has proved that government is changing. Whether the Occupy movement has anything to do with it or not remains to be seen, but you can bet it has begun to strengthen the backbone of our Democratic leadership.

Your paragraph doesn't point out any accomplishments at all.

That is one persons interpretation.

[Doctor_J]

65. You need to come back to reality

First of all you immediately lose any debate in which you stoop to the level of the immature changing titles of the opposing party.

Really? the Repukes have been ramping up the lies, propaganda, and violence for 20 years. It sure doesn't seem to me like they're "losing the debate". Continuing to smile and play nice while you're being attacked is a guaranteed way to lose, as the Dems have proven without a doubt over the last 20 years.

Well, I would say the capitulation of the Republican majority in the House on the payroll tax issue has proved that government is changing.

And the passage of the "Detention Without Trial Act" offsets that nicely.

That is one persons interpretation.

As is the one to which I responded. As is yours. There are a lot of opinions posted at this site.

[Speed8098]

93. Reality? I'm there and you're welcome to visit.

It sure doesn't seem to me like they're "losing the debate".
Then you haven't been paying attention

Continuing to smile and play nice while you're being attacked is a guaranteed way to lose, as the Dems have proven without a doubt over the last 20 years.
Really? So......then.........I take it you think President Obama is a Republican? Obama received 53 percent of the popular vote to 46 percent for his conservative opponent John McCain, and he carried the electoral vote by an even more substantial 365-to-173 margin.


And the passage of the "Detention Without Trial Act" offsets that nicely.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/12/defense-bill-passed-so-what-does-it-do-ndaa

(snip)So what exactly does the bill do? It says that the president has to hold a foreign Al Qaeda suspect captured on US soil in military detention—except it leaves enough procedural loopholes that someone like convicted underwear bomber and Nigerian citizen Umar Abdulmutallab could actually go from capture to trial without ever being held by the military. It does not, contrary to what many media outlets have reported, authorize the president to indefinitely detain without trial an American citizen suspected of terrorism who is captured in the US. A last minute compromise amendment adopted in the Senate, whose language was retained in the final bill, leaves it up to the courts to decide if the president has that power, should a future president try to exercise it. But if a future president does try to assert the authority to detain an American citizen without charge or trial, it won't be based on the authority in this bill.

So it's simply not true, as the Guardian wrote yesterday, that the the bill "allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay." When the New York Times editorial page writes that the bill would "strip the F.B.I., federal prosecutors and federal courts of all or most of their power to arrest and prosecute terrorists and hand it off to the military," or that the "legislation could also give future presidents the authority to throw American citizens into prison for life without charges or a trial," they're simply wrong.

The language in the bill that relates to the detention authority as far as US citizens and permanent residents are concerned is, "Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

You should know what you are talking about before you speak. A quote I've always shared with uninformed people such as yourself sums it up pretty nicely.
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

If you want to go against the Democratic party this election cycle, be my guest. Just know, you will be on the losing end of the spectrum.

[JDPriestly]

88. The Civil Rights Movement took forever to get to passage

of the Civil Rights Act.

Starting with expressions of guilt by a number of our Founding Fathers, discussions of freeing slaves and transferring them to land purchased in Africa (James Madison is said to have proposed that plan) to the struggles of the abolitionist movement, to Dred Scott (an enormous setback), to Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation and the 14th and 15th Amendments, to Andrew Johnson's reconstruction, to separate-but-equal, to African-American fighting units in WWII, to integration of the armed forces, to integration in the public schools, to integration of buses and lunch counters, we continue to fight to insure equal opportunity.

There were times when the Civil Rights Movement seemed to be a cruel joke. There were times when it seemed there was no progress.

Things worth achieving take time, hard work and patience.

The 99% is just starting to fight for itself. We will achieve more justice and opportunity. Change that really matters does not happen quickly.

[randome]

91. The civil rights movement did not sneak around at night like OWS did in NYC.

They took more direct action against the oppressors.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. Given the LONG history you were just given

you do remember the Underground Railroad... which took place mostly AT NIGHT. Oh and for reasons that will be understandable once you learn about it, they were quite sneaky.

IN fact these guys were all but sneaky. Or my definition of the term will have to radically change.

[JDPriestly]

134. Were you there during the civil rights movement?

Whether they were "sneaky" depended on whether you were on the inside or the outside.

The Occupiers were no more "sneaky" about taking over Zucotti Park than Rosa Parks was about sitting in the front of the bus. I don't think that either act was at all sneaky. They were both forthright and up front. Rosa Parks did not get a permit to sit in the front of the bus. She simply sat there. And right she was to do it.

[unlawflcombatnt]

47. Well Said

Well Said, Speed 8098.

I especially like this part:
"They are showing the world that the so called "job creators" only create jobs in third world countries so they can exploit cheap labor and bribe those governments to look the other way while they drive the slave labor. "

The outsourcing of jobs to cheap foreign labor markets is not being addressed by either party at present.

Obama wants more free trade.
All RepubliCon wannabes embrace more free trade, except perhaps Buddy Roemer (Ron Paul at least advocates withdrawal from the WTO & NAFTA, though he's mute on China).

Nothing good is going to happen with our economy until we stop sending jobs overseas to cheap foreign labor markets.

We need to impose high Tariffs on China, and significant Tariffs on Japan, Germany, Ireland, & Mexico--all countries we have large trade deficits with.

[JDPriestly]

135. 1000

[Jack Rabbit]

51. What you said . . .

Happy New Year

[dana_b]

64. great post

and very honest. It's too bad I can't recommend it!

[treestar]

71. The things you mention are already well known, aren't they?

I've known that stuff for 20 years or more.

[peacebird]

31. They have changed the dialog in our country. People are now talking about the income inequality

Their actions have brought this front and center.

[treestar]

72. I've heard plenty about that before

Even read books on it.

[ejpoeta]

78. in the mainstream??? i sure haven't. they went out of their way

to avoid such discussions. It was all about the job creators and if we don't give them what they want then what will happen. Now they at least discuss the disparity.

[treestar]

114. So is it really happening in the mainstream now?

I don't watch Fox News. Still, I bet Fox News is not covering this as the revelation that there is income inequality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Problem is that if you want to look at THE MEDIA, as in the ELITE MEDIA

yes, this conversation is happening when it wasn't. It is even a provable fact.

I know some folks are stubborn, but serious, you can actually look at number of mentions in the press and articles too.

[lunatica]

33. Well you are talking about them aren't you?

And they have pointed out Wall Street greed and corruption right?

If getting people's attention and pointing out what's really happening is nothing, then what do YOU think they should accomplish?

I think they're very effective and are accomplishing much more than anyone could have ever dreamed of.

[treestar]

73. They are getting attention for occupying the park

And now for tearing down police barricades. They are being talked about for getting pepper sprayed, or arrested.

I see more about those subjects, even on DU, than I do anything about income inequality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. That is because you are not paying attention

nor realize that the media is doing that on purpose... and you should ask WHY IS THAT, but you will not.

[lunatica]

94. If that's all you 'see' then your not looking very hard

I've seen quite a few stories of them occupying foreclosed homes and making the banks back down, even if only temporarily.

[randome]

95. This thread was originally about the New Year's Eve re-invasion of Zuccotti Park.

Why does every discussion about OWS devolve into its enthusiastic supporters trying to justify its very existence?

Sneaking into the park while the police had their backs turned was a dumb stunt.

I have yet to see anyone claim anything useful was accomplished by that.

[treestar]

108. I've seen those

But the most noise is about the conflicts with police and local authorities.

Then imagine what the average person who is not a political junkie sees.

Not looking very hard is even more descriptive of those individuals.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. I will ask you this seriously

I could write an article about all the other things OWS is doing... which is plenty. How many editors will run that? The next question is why?

Yes there is an agenda at play here. You are bright enough to know this.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Try harder.

The message is pretty damn clear. Here is a clue: a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

[Doctor_J]

45. Sad but true

Besides the president talking a little more like a Dem, I don't see any effect on the direction of the country. The "defense" bill signed by the president is still as disaster. Voter roll purging continues unabated. By early this year all liberal/Dem-oriented talk will have been removed from the airwaves. The Cock Brothers' destruction of democracy has not abated. And this latest "demonstration" will soon disperse, as soon as the PTB appear with some pepper spray.

The thought is nice, but the action is nowhere near enough to make a noticeable difference in the direction of the country. Instead of "occupy a park in NY" we need "destroy hate radio at all costs"

[Zhade]

52. I'm sorry, what have you accomplished again?

What have you done to change the national conversation from deficits and cutting benefits to the stranglehold corporate greed has on the world?

An honest person would say…?

[OneGrassRoot]

54. lol n/t

[Remember Me]

86. You're just not paying attention --

***** OWS, Foucault, and the Nature of Power (Deep13)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100238810#post1

10:59 12/1/2011
Listen Up -- Re the Occupy Movement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2408247

Chris Hedges: "This one could take them all down
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x626281
link

***** The Originality of Occupy Wall Street (new structures, the wisdom of not creating an agenda, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2301102
link http://www.truth-out.org/originality-occupy-wall-street/1321203807

The youth of OWS Say "It's the system stupid!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2456118

Democracy Now: Michael Moore, Naomi Klein, William Greider: Next Steps for the 99% Movement
OWS organizer Patrick Bruner: This isn't a protest. This is a way of making a new space. ...There's a psychic break that's
going on that we're riding.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2379135
link http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/25/occupy_everywhere_michael_moore_naomi_klein

What Is Occupy Wall Street About?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x630962
link

The Study That Shows Why Occupy Wall Street Struck A Nerve - Eugene Robinson/WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2198589
link http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-study-that-shows-why-occupy-wall-street-struck-a-nerve/2011/10/27/gIQA3bsMNM_story.html


The Demographics Of Occupy Wall Street
http://www.fastcompany.com/1789018/occupy-wall-street-demographics-statistics#
discussed: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2147772

Occupy Wall Street Protests: The Already Accomplished
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2088697

You're STILL. NOT. GETTING. IT, are you? TygerBright
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x640674#640675

How Occupy is Transforming Our National Conversation
In just two months, the Occupy movement has begun to unseat an economic narrative that held sway for thirty years.
http://www.yesmagazine.org/blogs/john-cavanagh-and-robin-broad/how-occupy-is-transforming-our-national-conversation?utm_source=wkly20111125&utm_medium=yesemail&utm_campaign=titleBroad

In Case You Missed This... 'The Democratic Promise of Occupy Wall Street' William Greider/TheNation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2399925
link http://www.thenation.com/article/164767/democratic-promise-occupy-wall-street

Bill Moyers: Change can't come from within the two parties. They are frozen, paralyzed, purchased.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2382883
link http://www.thirteen.org/openmind/media/bill-moyers-journal/2330


Let me know if you want more.

[randome]

92. "The 'wisdom' of not having an agenda"?

Talk about immense rationalizations. Without an agenda, nothing will ever get accomplished.

[Remember Me]

126. If you'd read it, perhaps you'd understand

OR, perhaps it would be over your head. I don't know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. Just because I hate lies

Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011
Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian, Arabic, Portuguese [all translations »]

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
▪ They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
▪ They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
▪ They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
▪ They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming

[Doremus]

90. Somehow I don't think you try very hard.

"I try to support them but..."

BTW, I support OWS and believe they are accomplishing a great deal. I am also quite honest.

But thanks for the insult. Happy new year to you too.

[midnight]

133. I support them....

[SpiralHawk]

29. What's going on this New Year's Morning?

Any updates?

[lunatica]

34. kick'd and rec'd

Go Occupy!!

[marquee][/marquee]

[blueclown]

35. They should fight their battles in Washington, not over a stupid barricade.

[Fire Walk With Me]

37. ...

[freshwest]

55. As reported frequently byTim last night.

And for those who think this looks silly, it might. But that's not seeing the forest for the trees.

These actions keep the fire going, in the national consciousness, in the only way the disenfranchised have ever had, with their bodies. The media blackout has been complete and those oppose the system of death are overwhelmed by the 24/7 control of talk radio, cable and broadcast frequency news and a lot of the internet.

The mainstream media will NOT cover the abuse to the people of this planet because they have a conflict of interest, working for those who are doing the harm.

The Occupy movement is still in its infancy, creating a grassroots awareness to wake people up. It is their bodies and their time they are putting on the line for our future and theirs.

I see no room to criticize them, having lived through the sixties and seen the warlike mentality by both sides of the anti-war issue, for example. The Occupiers are less hostile than we were in those days which accomplishes a great deal more in the long run, IMO.

BTW, FWWM, I wish the last sentence on the poster was not there, it feeds the same mindset the 1% are promoting.

'You can't stop an idea whose time has come' is better.

[randome]

56. Re-invading parks is NOT the only method the disenfranchised have.

Take a look at what's happening in Wisconsin if you want to see how to stand up to entrenched interests.

Direct action is more effective than getting into squabbles with police over park sit-ins.

The people of Wisconsin are actually trying to get shit done.

[Mister Ed]

58. Is it really an either/or choice?

Do you think we can either have people in Wisconsin working to recall the governor, or have people in New York calling public attention to the colossal corruption of our governmental and financial institutions - but not both?

I say nay. I say that each of those efforts feeds public awareness, and helps provide fuel and momentum for the other.

Happy New Year to you, and please accept my sincere thanks for your support of the people of Wisconsin!

[randome]

60. What was last night's message?

What was gained by trying to re-invade Zuccotti Park as soon as the cops had their backs turned? Nothing that I can see.

It pulled police away from their jobs of keeping the immense festivities problem free. How do you think that promotes the idea of economic justice?

I am not in the slightest trying to imply that the police are always on the right side. I'm simply saying that last night OWS was definitely in the wrong.

[Mister Ed]

63. Nothing that you can see. n/t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

81. Well, we've certainly got your attention.

As demonstrated by your incessant posts talking about how we're doing nothing, we definitely have you engaged, don't we?

[freshwest]

61. Most of these groups support each other. WI is not alone in people taking legislative action.

If you don't support the goals of OWS, which are much larger than those of the people in WI working to recall Walker and his regressive agenda, it's your right.

I haven't seen complaints from people in WI upset about the interest generated in the OWS movement in NYC. It is the anti-Wall Street movement, and Wall Street is in NYC, not WI.

But Wall Street is major supporter of the system that is driving the things that Walker is doing in WI. It's called striking at the root and not the branches, as Thoreau said.

All people do things in their own way where they live or associate to make the changes they find necessary to live.

It is nowhere near time to take the heat off of Wall Street, until it ceases its abuses. And this is just the beginning, it will go in fits and starts, advance and retreat. It will take a very long time as Wall Street has controlled this country for centuries.

OWS is predicated on the belief that humans no longer have the luxury of a waiting until a future time to stop what Wall Street is doing to people and the planet.

If you can't find it in your heart to appreciate the sacrifices of these mostly young people in putting their bodies on the line for change as youth did back in the sixties, that's okay. We all have our way of looking at things.

Have a Happy New Year.

[randome]

62. Financial big-wigs, like corporations, are Mindless Greed Machines.

OWS cannot 'convince' them to play nicer. That's why I am so dismayed to see time and effort wasted in trying to do so.

Sure, Wall Street is bribing our politicians. We all know that. But telling them to stop it just isn't going to get the job done.

We still need our legislators to pass sensible, binding regulations so that corruption becomes a much less common occurrence. Wall Street isn't going to do that. The legislators are.

[lunatica]

96. Yeah, but they started off basically sitting in in the State Capital and people jeered at them then

And because the system is such in Wisconsin they recalled Republican Congresspeople and replaced two of them. Now the system is letting then go against Gov. Scott Walker, and they're doing that. And in Wisconsin the agenda is political and politically motivated with a political agenda.

Occupy is bringing awareness to the fundamental causes which are responsible for a lot of political corruption, and definitely responsible for the economic mess and jobless status we're in right now. That covers politics, but politics in only part of the problem. Occupy actually sees the problem and is making us talk about it.

[randome]

98. They took the protest directly to the people responsible.

What the hell did Zuccotti Park do to anyone?

I have yet to hear anyone claim that sneaking into the park on New Year's Eve accomplished anything.

Can you tell me that it did? If so, what?

[lunatica]

99. It got you talking about it didn't it?

Even if it's pretty evident that you've made up your mind and will argue your single issue peeve no matter what anyone says. Well, it's your right.

[Fire Walk With Me]

59. Very obviously, I do not have audio on this computer.

And I fully agree with your words. I didn't know that #Occupy are less violent than the sixties freedom workers, thanks for that.

And I get as fed up as the last sentence indicates (it's not my image, BTW, I don't have those skills). I'm okay with upset as a driving force, and they're feeding us lots and lots of upset. But yes, peace is the Answer.

Have a great new year!

[TBF]

76. Rec this poster -

especially the last line.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

80. I love that graphic!

[calimary]

85. LOVE this poster!

Enough Bullshit Indeed!



Btw - Happy New Year everybody! A privilege and pleasure to be here on DU with you! This being 2012 now, I think that will make it eleven years on here for me. I found this place a few miserable months into bush-2, the first stolen term.

[treestar]

74. Yep. for all the claim that somehow they've made a difference

in what people are talking about - it's not about the system, or income inequality, or the housing bubble, or investment in Wall Street - it's about them and their sufferings at the hands of local cops.

[randome]

75. Sometimes they remind me of a thousand Michael Palins.

All shouting simultaneously, "See the violence inherent in the System! See the violence inherent in the System!"

Yeah, we already got that. This Zuccotti Park re-invasion was a dumb stunt.

[fascisthunter]

102. lol.... meemur neeb-nub

dur

[dipsydoodle]

36. Surging Back Into Zuccotti Park, Protesters Are Cleared by Police

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/protesters-surge-back-into-zuccotti-park/

[SlimJimmy]

38. I feared that would happen. But the statement has been made.

[dipsydoodle]

40. Unless there's something wrong with my maths

that was posted prior to the time the OP was posted.

[SlimJimmy]

42. I didn't look at the time stamp, I was just reacting to the reply.

[dipsydoodle]

43. I then realised

that the time stamp is when the event began - not when it finished a few hours later.

[hack89]

89. What statement? "We are rapidly becoming irrelevant"?

Occupy implies some degree of permanency, don't you think? This was a minor side show to the New Years celebration and the cops still had them gone in short order.

Stuff like this make OWS look small and irrelevant.

[SlimJimmy]

100. The statement they made was that they were still alive and kicking. (nt)

[hack89]

101. They also demonstrated weakness. nt

[fascisthunter]

103. You Wish

keep up the BAD work

[hack89]

107. I wish not - that's the problem. nt

[fascisthunter]

109. oh now... don't be so dishonest. Have Courage behind your convictions

try if you can.... hahaha

[hack89]

112. I support the goals of OWS. I think less of their tactics. Sorry I can't pass your purity test. nt

[fascisthunter]

117. lol... sure, sure you do

[hack89]

118. So - can I still be a progressive with my current attitude towards OWS?

do you view your POV as a litmus test?

[fascisthunter]

121. you failed because your pov is anti-progressive

any other boring questions for me... you aren't fooling anyone here. Your posts are all over this website for people to read themselves. You aren't a progressive and not a liberal. Why be so dishonest if your pov on issues are solid? I'm not wasting time with you... maybe lying to yourself is comforting... whatever it is, I'm not interested in dishonesty.

[hack89]

122. So it is anti-liberal to voice any criticism of OWS? Can I still be a Democrat? nt

[BenYehuda]

49. ONE MESSAGE: NATIONALIZE THE MONEY CENTER BANKS!!!!!!!

[RoccoR5955]

53. K & R! n/t

[Fantastic Anarchist]

66. Oh, I'm aroused!

Great news!

[randome]

67. And maybe a little bit drunk, too?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

82. Not a logical deduction.

Unless, in order for one to be aroused, one has to be drunk.

[fascisthunter]

105. ZING!

[fascisthunter]

104. does it bother you that this person supports the OCCUPY MOVEMENT?

why yes it does...

[RobertBlue]

68. k&r n/t

[Zorra]

69. lol! happy new year

[RueVoltaire]

70. Police surrounding and arresting people now - lawyer just arrested for not putting his phone away!

[unionworks]

97. K&R

Occupy your mind

[fascisthunter]

106. This Movement will get LARGER

enjoy

[randome]

110. Because you WANT it to?

I've finally realized why every conversation about something OWS does devolves into arguments over its very purpose.

It's because even its most vocal proponents realize that not everything done in the name of OWS is a good thing and they are in denial about it.

We all want to believe in something greater than ourselves that we can belong to and support and nurture for a better society.

So far, OWS is a bland representation of that desire. It has done some good but it falters as often as it succeeds.

Can anyone tell me what the point of sneaking into Zuccotti Park was? If it was just to insist that OWS has relevance, then they have already lost that fight.

Of course, according to many OWS proponents, OWS has already won so I guess you could say...game over.

[fascisthunter]

113. It will, and yes I want it to, so I support it.

it's good seeing who we are up against. You'll lose in the end, trust me on this. You expose yourself here. Enjoy.

[randome]

115. Why would I trust you?

What secret information do you possess? I am not trying to 'win' anything. You insist that this discussion thread is some kind of competition, don't you?

That only exposes YOU for trying to keep up the illusion that everything OWS does is golden.

[fascisthunter]

116. didn't ask you to trust me.... why would anyone here take you seriously?

your number one agenda here is to smear Occupy and its supporters. It's obvious you represent the status quo and are here to create confusion on the issue of OWS. Your little attempt to create fear and paranoia of the movement reminds me of shit Karl Rove has already done. Game over for you.

[randome]

120. You did ask me to trust you. Read your own post.

Fear? Paranoia? Sounds like someone is projecting.

When uncomfortable questions are asked, the sequence is the same: instead of talking about a specific OWS action, try to conflate the issue with economic injustice to see if the poster can be swayed to another topic.

If that doesn't work, imply that the poster is a troll.

Predictable and sad.

Again, tell me what was gained by sneaking into Zuccotti Park on New Year's Eve? Tell me.

On edit:
Almost forgot the 3rd part of the sequence: use the words "I'm done with you." and end the discussion.

[fascisthunter]

123. it's a figure of speech... try harder next time

sophistry is boring... so are dishonest yappers. If I wanted that, I'd watch Fox News or CNN. Spin away...

[randome]

124. You are running all over this thread, trying to put out too many 'fires'.

Sometimes without addressing the points made.

Makes one wonder if you don't already know that OWS is not perfect and don't want to admit it.

If OWS would get out of this stupid obsession with public parks, I would be much happier with them.

When they marched on Washington and Wall Street, I very much supported them, as I do the Wisconsin recall efforts, which I think will have a much more direct effect on the status quo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. One active occupation, and now 10 non physical in my county

but you keep up with your own obsession ok.

It does not matter how many times you are told this, you will repeat the same canards. Nor are you truly interested.

Oh and a couple free clues

1.- NO they are not golden... I have yet to meet any social organization that is. Nor are they perfect.

2.- Unlike you, they are actually doing something and have the courage of their convictions. I am not so sure you do.

At least that is the perception we have gotten from you, It is like you are threatened by them.

[Uncle Joe]

111. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, backscatter.