Pastor refuses to mourn Orlando victims: ‘The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die’
Source: Washington Post
Following the deadliest shooting in U.S. history, a Baptist preacher stood at his pulpit Sunday night in Northern California and delivered an impassioned sermon praising the brutal massacre at a gay nightclub in Florida.
Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church in Sacramento told his congregation that Christians shouldnt be mourning the death of 50 sodomites.
People say, like: Well, arent you sad that 50 sodomites died? Jimenez said, referencing the initial death toll in Orlando, which authorities later clarified included 49 victims plus the gunman. Heres the problem with that. Its like the equivalent of asking me what if you asked me: Hey, are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?
Um, no, I think thats great. I think that helps society. You know, I think Orlando, Fla., is a little safer tonight.
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/06/14/pastor-refuses-to-mourn-orlando-victims-the-tragedy-is-that-more-of-them-didnt-die/
While the media is not focusing on the fact that this is a hate crime, nothing like homophobic Baptist minister to remind us that so-called Christians can happily practice and preach hate.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Sad stuff
dhill926
(16,337 posts)TomCADem
(17,387 posts)While some would like to minimize the fact that the LGTB was targeted, this attack is hardly unique, and that similar attacks on the LGBT community have been perpetrated by Christians, Jews, as well as Muslims.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/timeline-violence-lgbt-community-article-1.2671788
TexasBushwhacker
(20,185 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)out of whole cloth, and he'll be happy to.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Perfect!
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)or
go here for a copy
http://imgur.com/yRSCyWz
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I love that site and stayed up too late to prove it!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
TexasBushwhacker
(20,185 posts)and wore clothes of mixed fibers?
I'm not a Christian, but it's my understanding Jesus was a peaceful man. And I thought that he died for all believers' sins - rape, murder, theft and even homosexuality. And yes, there are plenty of Christians among the LGBT community.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)With regard to your other points, there are a lot of contradictory sentiments in both the Old and New Testaments.
It is important, though, to be aware of the fact that the Old Testament clearly indicates that God opposes homosexuality and believes that those who practice it should be put to death. The New Testament does not indicate that this law is no longer valid, and in fact, there are passages that appear to confirm the anti-homosexual sentiments (such as Corinthians 6 9, famously).
The point is, one can cherry pick these texts to create whatever version of the religion that one prefers.
However, there are some pretty serious unpleasantness to be found in these so-called holy books.
Lucretius
(18 posts)Mathew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
In the venacular Aramaic of the time Raca was an epithet for gay. It is one of the few Aramaic words not translated into Greek.
xocet
(3,871 posts)Could you please elaborate on the proper vowel content of that term in Aramaic?
Also, would the consonant content thereof be RK or RKh or RQ or RCh?
This site allows one to look up roots:
There it says that rakak (under RK) means to soften and rak means weak, faint, etc.
Is that the correct origin of the word - ῥακά ?
Also, welcome to DU! (Whoops! I interpreted LPC to mean that you have not been here long, but you have been here longer than I have....)
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Once i show this to Mr. dixie, he will be out of my hair for weeks!
Baahaawaaaahaa.
I see you have not yet gotten a reply to your question. Hmmmm.
xocet
(3,871 posts)I find languages very intriguing and like to try to understand the origins and meanings of words. If that link is one that you think Mr. Dixie will like, here are some more that I have found to be both interesting and useful:
http://archives.nd.edu/words.html
The Perseus Digital Library at Tufts - Greek, Roman, Arabic, Germanic, etc.:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/
The Bosworth-Toller Anglo-Saxon Dictionary - Old English:
http://ebeowulf.uky.edu/BT/bosworth.htm
Beolingus - German <--> English, German <--> Spanish, and German <--> Portuguese:
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/
UT Austin Linguistics Research Center:
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/
Also, here is the first link that I consulted regarding the above post by Lucretius:
It has the interlinear Greek translation needed to find what Lucretius mentioned. From there it was off to Perseus to see what they would claim that the Greek translation would be...etc.
I think that the question that I asked of Lucretius is not an easy one, so I don't fault Lucretius for not replying immediately.
P.S. May Mr. Dixie have fun with the above links, but if the original link that I provided was especially interesting, please first take a look at the Semitic Roots Appendix of the online version of the American Heritage Dictionary (https://ahdictionary.com/word/semitic.html). One can understand the meanings of a lot of commonly given Biblical names by reading it.
Have a nice day!
realswifty
(1 post)bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Perhaps to Uganda.
Jeb Bartlet
(141 posts)excuse for a christian he is. His kind need to be eradicated.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)I wonder if this disillusioned savior is a closeted gay person who just can't play the cards he was dealt. I also wonder if his congregation consists of more than his wife, his kids and his pets.
bigworld
(1,807 posts)displacedtexan
(15,696 posts)They're located in a business park suite (trans. Strip mall) across the street from Wendy's.
Frankly, your radar is spot on, imho.
tom_kelly
(959 posts)I dropped the good pastor a note on the site - not about the radar - letting him know I'd pray for him. That he is no longer angry at himself and may stop basking in the suffering of other homosexuals.
librarylu
(503 posts)I asked when he was going to resign. I told him his comments were appalling and he should never speak again.
It will be interesting to see what sort of reply I get, if any.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)There aren't ANY residences in that general vicinity. It's all warehouses, office parks and retail.
Looks like those pictures are from when they were first starting up their church plant.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)what a fucking moron.
My guess he will have a few protesters at his next service.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Leviticus does pretty explicitly say the punishment for homosexual behavior is death.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)Response to MariaThinks (Reply #32)
Post removed
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)katsy
(4,246 posts)status of any religion that supports the murder of others.
These people are endorsing hate crimes. Why should they be rewarded for it?
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Religion is basically a profitable business model.
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)Most murderers are either wacked on drugs or insane. This guy is just an opportunistic sleazeball who favors killing fellow human being because of their inborn sexual orientation. Get what I'm saying now?
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)I think this moron should be put away before he kills someone.
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)That's all? Just a moron? His thinking and now widely disseminated words encourage the actions of those who would follow in the steps of the Orlando shooter and you are more concerned with the statistical nature of murders. Good focus there Maria!
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)"...
"The pattern that stands out the most is we see a lot of intimate partner violence, mental health problems and substance abuse," said the CDC's Debra Karch, who led the study.
..."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-deaths-usa-idUSTRE64C53R20100513
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)I haven't yet heard him advocate violence against LGBTQ individuals or anyone else. I've heard him approve of it, yes, but it's one thing to say "I'm glad X happened" and "You should go out and do X." If he'd said the latter, then he needs to be arrested, tried for inciting violence, and punished to the fullest extent of the law. But to the best of my knowledge, he didn't say that.
I see where you're coming from here, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. Equating speech to murder is more than a little hyperbolic. This guy is a reprehensible bigot and deserves to be known as such far and wide, but I'd not equate him with someone who murdered another human being.
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)Orlando being safer and it would have been better if more were killed? I equate, and call worse, Charlie Manson and, much more so, Hitler, than those who carried out their hate in the murder of human beings. If we agree to disagree, that's OK.
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)You're equating "I approve of X" and "You should you go out and do X."
His beliefs are repugnant in the extreme, and as I said before, they make him a reprehensible person. He absolutely deserves to be derided and reviled as a bigot of the first order and an awful human being for rejoicing in the deaths and injuries of others.
I personally can't equate him with someone who has criminally deprived another human being of his or her life. Having a wretched opinion and murdering a person are two different things.
And yes, we might have to agree to disagree. We're certainly united in our opinion that he's a total waste of perfectly good carbon and oxygen, though. I really pity him, and I hope that someday he finds a way to jettison his hate.
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)who are teetering on the edge of action or not. This kind of speech, in my opinion, could push a psychotic over the edge in order to "protect" his family, keep his home safe or just plain "carry out the will of the Lord."
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)But ultimately, the unbalanced maggots, to use your turn of phrase, who are teetering on that mental knife-edge are going to be pushed off by one thing or another. If not a hateful sermon, it'll be seeing two LGBTQ people sharing affection in public. If not that, it'll be an article demanding equal rights for LGBTQ people. If not that, it'll be because their LGBTQ coworker outperformed them in front of their boss.
The point I'm trying to make is that these unbalanced hateful people are the problem, not the "devil made me do it" excuses they use to justify their violence. If a neo-Nazi says that he read Mein Kampf and it inspired him to beat up a Jewish kid, are we going to ban the book? Given the horrors committed in the name of just about every religion out there, should we ban the books associated with those religions?
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)but I am referring the specific words spoken by a specific man in a specific situation. Nothing more. You know, kinda like "fighting words" do not enjoy the same 1st Amendment protection as some other speech but each case must be judged on it's own merits.
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)If this "pastor" had told his congregation, "I want you all to go get some weapons, and before next Sunday, I want you to have killed a hommasexshul!" then absolutely he'd be responsible for any deaths or injuries that followed from that statement. Even if no deaths or injuries occurred, I'd still want to see him arrested and tried for inciting violence.
But I disagree with the idea of criminalizing speech we disagree with as "hate speech." I believe in the marketplace of ideas, and the only way racism and other bigotry will ever be defeated will be for the ignorance and foolishness of it to be exposed for all to see, and the only way for that to happen is for those who hold those opinions, as loathsome as they may be, to have the freedom to articulate their inferior ideas.
To paraphrase Tyrion Lannister, by tearing a man's tongue out, you're not proving him wrong, only telling the world that you fear what he has to say.
63splitwindow
(2,657 posts)If you look back at my original statement it was "Worse than most murderers he is..." referring to this "Pastor". I am not laboring under the misconception that he could or should be criminally prosecuted for this "Sermon."
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)I just personally don't feel he's worse than most murderers. I'm certainly not going to add him to my Christmas card list, though.
gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Particularly within more conservative branches of Christianity. Most of them aren't going to come out and say what he did... at least, not in public - but if this asshole is saying it out loud, there are more who are thinking it. In particular, those who remained to listen to this utter disgrace of a human being. What I wonder is...
At what point will such people be held accountable for their words and/or actions? Perhaps some think that God will hold them accountable - and while that may be a comforting thought for those of us who believe, it does not stop these human demons from promoting their message of hate, intolerance, anger, ignorance... and violence here on earth.
On the contrary - such people write books. Such people are admired, beloved, praised and all but worshiped by their followers, members of their congregation, etc. We have example after example after example. Throughout history, even our own not so distant past. This is the kind of individual - and the kind of message, that enables, encourages, condones the murder of innocent people. Using freedom of religion as a shield, they will preach their hate from the pulpit while bigots, fools and imbeciles praise them for their "hard line", their, "courage", their, "honesty". They do this even when amidst murder and destruction, suffering and starvation, real pain, real terror, right here in their own Country.
What a man like this says one day, others will be thinking about the next. Children with minds that are still very impressionable - who are taught to respect their elders and fear Jesus, will grow up thinking these kinds of thoughts. In fact, many already have - they often grow up to become much like this man... misguided, full of hate, ignorance... and poisonous rage. It is the belief system that enables one to think that the slaughter of other people is okay, particularly when their version of religion brands those particular people as "sinners, sodomites, evil"...
The true evil, is this promotion, encouragement... praising of violence, of slaughter, of murder, in the name of God. Do they not read the ten commandments contained within their "good book"? What part of "thou shalt not" can they not comprehend? They look to the old testament, full of fire and brimstone, condemnation and anger... and that, they think, settles that. There is though, a new testament, which speaks of mercy, love, forgiveness... compassion - and even tolerance. There is a man called Jesus who, according to the story, lived in such a way as to demonstrate these things.
I lost my faith in the Christian God many years ago. In part, it is because if I believed in such a God, even now, I would have to stop believing for the simple reason that such creatures as this Pastor continue to.. "preach" in it's name, with ignorance and hatred so despicable that it blows my mind.
He does his religion, his people... and the human race, no favors. This is not someone in the business of saving souls, but of arrogantly condemning that which he does not understand. Of ignorantly persecuting the innocent, of misleading hundreds, thousands, even millions of people. Truly, if there is a judgmental God somewhere in the cosmos, it must cringe every time this creature speaks.
Recently here on DU, we have been arguing about gun control. I have seen it suggested that we take all guns away, ban them completely. I have seen others respond, suggesting that that would mean civil war. That there would be murder, blood in the streets...
We are already at war, ladies and gentlemen - and with every passing year there is more blood in the streets as a result. This is not a holy war, not a war of religion against religion, nor even Nation against Nation. It is a war of love as opposed to hatred. Of understanding as opposed to ignorance. Of acceptance as opposed to judgment. It is a war for the very soul of who we are as a people. It is a war of faith - in various higher powers.... Do we believe in the ignorant, arrogant, cruel and hateful God advertised by men like this? Do we believe in the Jesus of the bible who shared a very different message? Or, might it be worthy, regardless of or in addition to our other beliefs... to believe in each other? To believe that other human beings are worthy of life, love, respect... compassion? Mercy?
Lately I begin to suspect that there is indeed such a place as hell. It exists within the minds and hearts of those like Roger Jimenez. It is brought forth when the innocent are slain. It is permitted to exist, even to thrive, every time good people do nothing. It is ugly, it is horrendous. For all of that though... it is utterly and completely false. Whether you believe in humanity, or in God, in simple decency, or in logic and rationality, the falseness represented by people such as this Pastor must be obvious.
This war cannot be won by attrition, by engaging our enemies with their own weapons of violence, fear - and hatred. Rather, we win every time we join hands. We win every time we weep together in joint sorrow and empathy for each other. We win every time we find the courage to stand up and denounce cruelty, bigotry, hatred - and evil. We win by loving each other, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or what have you. We win when we demonstrate the beauty and nobility of the human spirit - this can be seen every day, on every street in our great Nation. In every household where parents tuck in their children with an "I love you" and a kiss.
In the end, that which is promoted, pushed... and sold by people like the Pastor, will be a failed message. It will, in time, become a miserably failed ideology. Humanity, as other forms of live... evolves. Not just in the physical sense, but in the emotional, intellectual... and perhaps even spiritual as well. Our combined strength exists within unity and compassion.
This man and those like him will say what they will. They will open their mouths - and their rear ends will fall out. It is in their nature. We each have the ability to determine our own nature. Let it be one of kindness, love - and acceptance. That is how we win. We give those who do such damage as this Pastor the greatest punishment we can... by permitting them to live within their own ignorance, small-mindedness and hatred. It must be terribly lonely to feel so very small as this man must. To so impotently rage and shout to other such small minded individuals.
Let them live in their own hell. Those of us who are otherwise, those of us who cling to the nobility and beauty that humanity has to offer, we will live much fuller lives, with happiness, grace, wisdom, beauty... and even power... that such twisted little men can never comprehend. Let them own their damnation, they bring it upon themselves. I do not pity them, not for an instant. I reject all that they say and believe - I reject them utterly as members of the same species. May they pass from the world like breaking wind. May their rapture come and claim them all - and for once I would indeed, gnostic as I am, have a reason to praise God.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)The best example of "god scum" to come along in some time.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)For clarification
burrowowl
(17,640 posts)not Christian at all!
shenmue
(38,506 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)Since Christians aren't responding to his call, it's a good thing we don't believe want he is saying
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Sometimes this atheist hopes there is a hell. If so this assswipe is going.
tblue37
(65,340 posts)to hear that 49 heterosexual men were killed? After all, in a random group of 49 heterosexual men, there would probably be more of a chance of finding one or a few pedophiles than in a group of clients in a gay night club, since a pedophile won't find prepubescent victims in a freakingvfreaking nightclub! Pedophiles seek their victims in places frequented by young children, not in nightclubs.
Solly Mack
(90,764 posts)Full of hate and feeling righteous about it. Sick, sick.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)I just wish the rest of the conservatives would be true to their hatred the way this guy is. It's SO galling to hear those shit stains trying to make political points over deaths they would rather be celebrating. Conservative Christians and Republicans clearly have no shame.
This dude is not white.
get the red out
(13,462 posts)Put this asshole on the terrorist watch-list.
BeyondGeography
(39,370 posts)RKP5637
(67,107 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)If it's news, that leadoff word seems to be it's own comments section nowadays.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)The world is full of assholes like him.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)If God wasn't a fantasy, he (or she) would send down a well placed bolt of lightening and take care of this Baptist "pastor."
olddad56
(5,732 posts)This clown is being ostracized by the local religious community and the LGBT community is planning to protest his 'church'. It turns out, as one might expect, that this guy runs a tiny store front church in a strip mall. Even our scoundrel of a mayor is speaking out against this clown.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article83693667.html
Sand Rat Expat
(290 posts)I suspect he may have missed these bits when he was rushing to rejoice over the deaths of far better people than he could ever hope to be...
James 1:26 - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Ephesians 4:29 - Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Matthew 5:22 - But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, You fool! will be liable to the hell of fire.
Of course, I also suspect that if challenged directly with these verses as evidence of his loathsome hypocrisy, he'd say it doesn't count, because Leviticus-something-something.
Individuals like this make me ashamed to be Christian.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Clearly they're taking advantage of this to make a name for themselves, so they should just be ignored...
olddad56
(5,732 posts)is not the kind of publicity anyone wants. And he deserves ever bit of it.