BBC forecast: UK votes to leave the EU
Source: BBC
Based on analysis of the remaining undeclared counts, the BBC forecasts that the UK has voted to leave the European Union.
Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
Great blow against neoliberalism and undemocratic corporate systemic control.
The left wing case for leaving the EU
Supporters of the EU sneer Little Englander at those with a different opinion, but most of the arguments against membership are left-leaning and liberal.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu
The Left Case for Brexit
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/left-case-brexit
The radical left case for leaving the EU
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/michael-theodosiadis-sofia-zisi/radical-left-case-for-leaving-eu-comparative-anal
THE EU: ANTI- SOCIALIST AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-155b-THE-EU-ANTI-SOCIALIST-AND-ANTI-DEMOCRATIC#.V2RqFLt96Uk
Labour MP Kate Hoey: Why leaving the EU is a left-wing move
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-mp-kate-hoey-why-leaving-the-eu-is-a-left-wing-move-a6687936.html
Exit Left: the Socialist Case for Britain Leaving the EU
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/11/exit-left-the-socialist-case-for-britain-leaving-the-eu/
still_one
(92,492 posts)Johnson supported the BREXIT
wysi
(1,512 posts)is a real racist, running a racist political party. Not the sort of person I would be proud to be in agreement with about anything.
still_one
(92,492 posts)... opposed the EU regulations that would have forced him to pay tax in the UK. And then used his publications to scare people into thinking immigrants were taking their jobs.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)all other issues agrees with me on the is one does not mean the rationales I posit are illegitimate.
Cognitive dissonance is so apparent from so many on this site.
If you are anti-TPP then you probably should be anti-EU.
Read my links for a cogent left wing argument why this is a good thing.
nikto
(3,284 posts)I think I get that.
I hate TPP, NAFTA, etc etc.
It's just the xenophobic/rw element's support for Brexit is such an instinctive turnoff (like Trump).
This is a tough one, in some ways.
Not just a black & white issue.
Thanks for the links above (lw arguments for Brexit, etc).
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)I know it is tough sometimes but politics makes strange bedfellows.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)I can be both against ttp and for the EU. Do you really think the Britain will be better than the EU on trade deals? I think you are making judgments without understanding the realities of the UK. Do you honestly think the current government will be better than the EU on any single issue? This vote was anti-immigrant for the vast majority of people voting out. That's the reality.
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)we might just revive the American middle class.
swhisper1
(851 posts)nikto
(3,284 posts)One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)Nationalism isnt a bad thing, but I bet the 3rd wayers are drinking heavily tonight in dispair
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)European integration and American military hegemony are the primary reasons western Europe has had 70 years of peace and prosperity. If Europeans' nationalist tendencies are not kept in check they will revert back into warmongering idiots before too long.
swhisper1
(851 posts)EU just got spanked, they will offer England a fig leaf, then reform their pact for the better
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)The EU will carry on as before and the UK will enter into its own treaties.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)AntiBank
(1,339 posts)In the mid to long term the UK will be just fine and a far more democratic nation state with a large increase of crucial sovereignty.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But, hey, FREEDOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)I wager you are one who simplistically looks at the names of some who lead the Leave campaign and knee jerks against it without looking at left wing and pro democratic arguments for it.
I also would like to ask if you are pro TPP, as that odious trade agreement is every bit part and parcel of the same global neoliberal corporatist project of unaccountable systemic control that the EU is.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)in the UK because EU rights no longer apply
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-leave-vote-brexit-workers-rights-time-directive-agency-a7044696.html
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)
class.
The EU doesn't protect workers' rights - it has destroyed them
Freedom of movement is about bosses driving down wages, not holidays
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/eu-doesnt-protect-workers-rights-it-has-destroyed-them
A feeble and erroneous argument for supporting the EU one which is repeatedly used by both government and opposition leaders is that leaving the EU would damage employment in Britain. This is simply not true. A campaign by Britain in Europe entitled Out of Europe, Out of Work claimed that Britain would lose millions of jobs if it left the EU. The National Institute of Economic and Social Research, however, described the campaign as absurd, finding that British withdrawal would have no long-term impact on employment. In the words of its Director, Dr Martin Weale, the campaign was pure Goebbels and a wilful distortion of the facts.
The European Union is about economics, neoliberal economics, monetarist market capitalism - economics that do not work. It is inherently deflationist. That is to say, it is built on constraining economic demand and driving up unemployment. It is an economics that has failed in the past, is failing again and which has rolled back the successful economic arrangements that worked so well, so brilliantly indeed, in the immediate post-war decades.
This same economics is being inflicted on Britain cuts and austerity. Living standards have fallen, wages reduced as a proportion of total economic output (GDP) and in real terms, and inequality and poverty increasing. In the rest of the EU however, things are worse, especially in the eurozone.
The EU is not at its core about employment rights, nor even is it about human rights. The EU has accepted employment rights to give the illusion that it is on the side of workers and trade unions at least slightly and to try to keep trade unions passive. The millions of unemployed in Spain, Greece and increasingly elsewhere have seen no benefit from alleged worker and trade union rights. In the cases of the Viking Line and Laval, workers tried to contest their employers replacing them with lower-paid workers from another EU country. But the European Court of Justice found in favour of employers rather than workers.
snip
The EU and other neoliberal nightmares
Workers across Europe are rallying against a union which has used its undemocratic structures to force neoliberalism on a continent.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/eu-and-other-neoliberal-nightmares
Voting to leave the EU is a no-brainer for the Left. The European Union is remote, racist, imperialist, anti-worker and anti-democratic: It is run by, of, and for the super-rich and their corporations. A future outside austerity and other economic blunders rests on winning the struggle to exit the EU, removing us from its neoliberal politics and institutions. Corporate bureaucrats in Brussels working as agents of the big banks and transnationals now exert control over every aspect of our lives. Neoliberal policies and practices dominate the European Commission, European Parliament, European Central Bank, European Court of Justice and a compliant media legitimises the whole conquest. This has left the EU constitution as the only one in the world that enshrines neoliberal economics into its text. Therefore the EU is not and never can be either socialist or a democracy.
Against the lefts strategic case for exit is relentless blither and blather from the elitist liberal commentariat: the EU is a social-democratic haven that protects us from the nasty Tories is their litany and verse. This is an absurd fantasy: by design the EU is a corporatist, pro-capitalist establishment. Therefore, it strains credulity that the bulk of the Parliamentary Labour Party and a rump of the trade union movement believe in the myth of Social Europe. The late Bob Crow was bang on the money when he said: social EU legislation, which supposedly leads to better working conditions, has not saved one job and is riddled with opt-outs for employers to largely ignore any perceived benefits they may bring to workers. But it is making zero-hour contracts and agency-working the norm while undermining collective bargaining and full-time, secure employment.
The only thing that should remain is the truth: a social Europe was never part of the European Union super-state project. How could it be? The EU has always travelled on the free trade train alongside free movement of capital, business-austerity, flexible labour markets, low pay, privatisation of public services and the eradication of welfare states. These were not just random policy proscriptions, but specifically designed by free-market fanatics. It was the deepening and integration of the EU project that allowed unelected policy makers, driven by the powerful EU corporate lobby, to circumvent and eradicate the social rights that were won by workers in the aftermath of World-War-Two. Creating democratic deficits in all the EU institutions and policy-making by unaccountable technocrats enabled and accelerated this process of dismantling rights. This arrangement ensured the neoliberal Holy Trinity of public spending cuts, privatisation and the removal of trade union rights could be enforced with little contestation.
Its worth noting the continuity of contempt by the European Union elites towards public opinion. Jean Monnet the founding father of the EU understood democracy was an obstacle to the elitist project and had to employ a degree of deception: "via money Europe could become political in five years" and "
the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would
the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal." Jean-Claude Juncker, todays unelected EU chief makes clear that nothing much has changed, when it becomes serious, you have to lie. There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties.
snip
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)on the issue of LGBT rights then they meet their own definition of "progressive" and take offense if you expand the debate to include economic justice issues.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)I would also add (on the bad) they are oftimes military interventionist hawks, or at least certainly doff the cap in support of pols who are.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)... the experts didn't see the 2008 crash coming. That is probably why many voters ignored the warnings.
I would have voted remain if I was a UK citizen but I understand why people are angry.
We need to figure out away to address it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)are not necessarily ours.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)Though I agree with you that this is a bad result. I would have voted remain if I was a citizen of the UK, all I am saying is the situation is slightly more complex.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)So people here are less pissed off.
still_one
(92,492 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)but you can bet your bippy the US corps are highly effected
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Obviously in the global economy what happens in our trading partners affects us too, but they chose austerity and we didn't.
swhisper1
(851 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)virgogal
(10,178 posts)Hope I'm wrong.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)I am vehemently opposed to the neoliberal, corporatist construct that is the EU from a left wing position.
still_one
(92,492 posts)AntiBank
(1,339 posts)by the utter collapse of petrol prices and systemic attacks by the very same global neoliberal and US/UK banking forces that so desperately wanted the UK to Remain.
still_one
(92,492 posts)shortages
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)and entensive borrowing. Now Maduro is printing money like its confetti, leading to huge inflationary pressures.
still_one
(92,492 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)still_one
(92,492 posts)swhisper1
(851 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)I guess this puts many other plans in jeopardy for the 1%.
swhisper1
(851 posts)still_one
(92,492 posts)unemployment in Europe
Hydra
(14,459 posts)But their plans can occasionally be disrupted...and as for unemployment, that's always the choice of whatever gov't is in charge. There's enough work, food and housing for everyone...at least until climate change takes that away. The fact that people get left out in the cold at the moment is a policy choice.
Reter
(2,188 posts)A big win for sovereignty, a big loss for globalization.
RAFisher
(466 posts)still_one
(92,492 posts)PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)Mainly because the UK is quite neoliberal itself and coming out of the EU does not mean it is rejecting globalisation. There are many many policies beneficial to the environemnt which are in place solely becuase of EU directives. Think Habitats Directive, Birds Directive, Water Framework Directive, Marine Quality Directive. Britain used to be known as the 'dirty ol man of Europe' and will probably start heading back down that route. It's the whole 'what has the EU ever done for us?' thing....
I don't disagree that the EU is undemocratic and needs change - I just don't think this exit will do a single thing to help the British left and probably much to hurt it. And Europe as a whole is becoming fractured and nationalistic, and this will only encourage that.
Kablooie
(18,645 posts)Kablooie
(18,645 posts)It's an advisory vote only. The decision to stay or leave remains with the Prime Minister alone.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)and hope the majority voted to remain. That will NEVER happen, you would have country wide riots.
Kablooie
(18,645 posts)I read that it is still is solely the PM's decision.
Of course refusing to do anything would be dangerous and irresponsible but it sounds like he may still have some wiggle room. A little bit perhaps.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)for decades. Parliament is sovereign above all else.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)splitting along populist versus elitist lines instead.
The elite are benefitting so disproportionately from the status quo that many on both the left and the right are wanting to re-shuffle the deck.
The Brexit vote has support on the left and the right and a nonpartisan consensus formed around the idea that chaos was not too high a price for change because the status quo is not acceptable.
This is what is at stake in the Presidential election this cycle. We need to plan for it.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)is quite depressing. I assume all of them are ok with TPP as well, as it's all part of the global neoliberal shackling.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)will adopt anti-neoliberal rhetoric (although I doubt it will be more than rhetorical opposition).
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)neoliberal systemic control.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)Nothing more or less
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)saying opposition to NAFTA is solely based on opposition to Mexican immigration.
If you hate immigration, you probably oppose NAFTA but that does not mean everyone who opposes NAFTA also opposes immigration.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)NAFTA does not give Mexicans the unrestricted right to work and live in the us. This vote is not about TTIP. It is about immigration and nationalism for the majority of voters.
LarryNM
(493 posts)PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)This reframing of the vote as anything other than against the influx of east Europeans is ridiculous. This is a vote for 'little England'. Anyone t thinking the left is going to benefit doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)resigned because he invited voters to treat ithe vote as a referendum on his leadership and yet 52% of voters rejected the conservative leader's vision.
That did not happen without liberal support, which explains why Brexit won in areas of England where the Labour Party rules.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)The areas labour traditionally does well are generally working class and they are generally more anti-immigrant and less educated. Corbyn supported remain and so did Caroline Lucas.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,405 posts)Working people will have a big stake in the referendum because workers rights are on the line. The TUC is concerned that leaving the EU puts at risk many vital workplace rights currently underpinned by EU law paid holidays, extra maternity rights and better conditions for part-time workers, as well as many better jobs in export-reliant industries.
RESOURCES
WORKERS' RIGHTS: Brexit impact
An independent legal opinion from Michael Ford QC identifies the dangers of Britain leaving the EU for working people.
BETTER OFF IN - Working people and the case for remaining in the EU
This paper looks at the likely impact of Brexit on the core concern of trade unions: good jobs with decent pay.
A BIG DECISION FOR WORKERS - Interactive guide
Guide to help you understand the main issues that affect working people.
THE NHS: How Brexit could affect our health service
BRITISH STEEL: Why Brexit wont save our steel
HEALTH AND SAFETY:
- What Brexit would mean
- The benefits for UK workers
WOMENS RIGHTS: The risks of Brexit
Women workers rights and the risks of Brexit
This report outlines 20 ways in which EU law has improved the rights of working women in the UK
WORKING PARENTS & CARERS - Risks of Brexit
RACE EQUALITY: The risks of Brexit
FREE MOVEMENT IS A TWO-WAY STREET - Brexit would risk it all
PART-TIME AND TEMPORARY WORKERS - Risks of Brexit
RIGHTS FOR OUTSOURCED WORKERS - Risks of Brexit
VIDEOS
The EU referendum: A big decision. Don't risk it! - Explanatory animation
Stuart's story: Don't risk our car industry by leaving the EU
Tracey's story: Don't risk our flexible working by leaving the EU
Angie's story: The NHS will be poorer if we leave the EU
Maurice's story: Bad bosses will exploit workers' if we leave the EU
Kevin's story: EU laws have helped reduce injuries at work and even saves lives
Michelle's story: I don't want to risk losing pregnancy, maternity and family leave rights
https://www.tuc.org.uk/EUref
For immigration, see page 36 of this: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/pm-16-june-2016-tables.pdf
52% of 'leave' say "The number of immigrants coming into Britain" is a very important reason for their vote, compared with just 22% saying "Britain's ability to make its own laws". Another 14% say "Impact on public services/housing", and 10% "The cost of EU immigration on Britain's welfare system".
This vote has been the triumph of Tea Party politics. Trump is, unsurprisingly, strongly supportive of Brexit. So is Marine le Pen of the French far right.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)supperters say immigration was an important motivation for their vote?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,405 posts)'Only' a reason that had very similar ones about the pressure on services and welfare as other significant reasons?
This must be a use of the word 'only' I was previously unaware of.
52%: The number of immigrants coming into Britain
22%: Britain's ability to make its own laws
18%: The impact on Britain's economy
14%: Impact on public services/housing
10%: The cost of EU immigration on Britain's welfare system
7%: Cost of EU membership fees
5%: The impact on British jobs
Others under 5%.
So, yeah, it's about immigration. The numbers are in front of you.
swhisper1
(851 posts)ellenrr
(3,864 posts)as someone who has not been paying much attention, and now trying to educate myself -- very useful!
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)This thread is driving me crazy. A bunch of pronouncements from people who know squat about the UK. So here are some real messages on facebook today from people who get out and campaign for the environment,human rights, social justice - lefties all, living their values:
"The UK political system is now even more subservient to US and domestic corporate power. As Rupert Murdoch said "When I go to Downing St they do what I say, when I go to Brussels they take no notice"
At the same time, we've just put wind in the sails of the very people who want to fast-track NHS privatisation. Brexit provides just the kind of chaos and upheaval to push through such an unpopular change plus whatever other regressive measures they've had waiting in the wings."
"Yesterday I voted for peace, solidarity and freedom of movement within Europe; today I feel ashamed to be British. Together, we have built an amazing tunnel to better connect ourselves to the rest of Europe and now we single handedly create a huge divide. It concerns me to see who will be our next Prime Minister, and worries me to think of the changes that lie ahead."
"Such bad news - younger voters up to 75% for remain - will they stay - or emigrate ? will EU workers stay or return ? how many will be left to look after the (self)-deluding / misled older voters? Whittingdale and Murdoch you have so much to answer for."
"Said no one over 60 should hAve had a vote ! Gives me great sorrow to be proved right hope all my other fears don't prove to be right.sad sad day....."
"I agree xxxxxx, I can not believe we did this to ourselves and our children and grandchildren ..."
"Although I am nearly 69, I agree with xxxxx. My generation had all the best years. What the hell have we done now?"
And from Caroline Lucas, the UK's only Green MP :
"Its difficult to be hopeful this morning. The cloudless blue skies are at odds with the disappointment Im feeling for our country. Because whilst the people have spoken, and I respect their decision, this referendum has deepened the divisions, borne of years of neglect and alienation, that rend our society. And theres a cruel irony in the fact that the dispossessed who have been part of this peoples revolt, will likely be the ones who will be disadvantaged yet further as our economy crashes and more empty promises about a better future are broken. Apparently we live in a post-truth world now, and barely are the results in than the lies are already being conceded, the brave new world exposed. Make no mistake, the establishment might look and sound a little different but they are still in control."
mr blur
(7,753 posts)I felt like heading this, "Greetings from Airstrip 1"
Indeed.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)People on the Left praising this are being needlessly contrarian. UK businesses will no longer be bound by EU rules that protect the rights of workers and unions. No, this is only a plus for the Fascist Right.