Rick Santorum gets an assist from the Duggar family in Iowa

[harvey007]

As Rick Santorum made his final argument to Iowa Republicans, he was joined by about half of reality television's Duggar family, who star in the TLC show "19 and Counting," about a devoutly Christian clan notable for their exceptional fecundity.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-santorum-campaigns-with-duggar-family-20120102,0,3412314.story

[la la]

1. jeezes- i'm not surprised!

...didn't the duggars just have some kind of 'ceremony' for the miscarried baby? i remember santorum and wife passed around their stillborn? child with their other children, some years back...a bit creepy if ya ask me....

[JenniferJuniper]

7. Not a stillborn but a non-viable fetus whose birth was induced

to save the life of Santorum's wife. The baby lived a few hours and it's corpse was handed around to the Santorum children.

It was an abortion, really. But when it's an anti-abortion right wing nutter's wife involved, it's called a premature birth.

The Duggars did indeed have a big celebration over the demise of a 16 week fetus last month, complete with tons of media attention at the funeral, photos of the fetus, and lots anti-choice sloganeering. It's all so disgusting.

[Ms. Toad]

16. There's enough garbage connected with Santorum without embellishing it

The Santorums experienced a spontaneous abortion following a medical procedure which left Mrs. Santorum with a bacterial infection. In layman's terms, she had a miscarriage. The Santorums did not induce labor - in fact Mrs. Santorum requested something to stop labor. Nonetheless, it is fairly clear they if the choice came down to her life or the life of the child she was carrying, she would have induced labor.

From the article:

"Ultimately, they did not have to make a decision; nature made it for them. Karen went into premature labor from an infection, delivering a boy who had a fatal abnormality. The child died two hours later.

In an interview, the Santorums said they would have authorized an abortion had there been no other choice.

``If that had to be the call, we would have induced labor if we had to,'' the senator said as he sat in his Washington office. ``I consider it a blessing that we didn't have to make that decision.''"

(There are more details about the procedure, the infection, the discussions surrounding the decision in the article.)

http://articles.philly.com/1997-05-04/news/25562508_1_fetal-abnormality-controversial-late-term-abortion-procedure-intact-dilation-and-extraction/

[SharonAnn]

20. So, the Santorums should have the right to make that decision, but they think no one else should?

[Ms. Toad]

21. Where did I say that?

Or anything about any position Santorum has taken, for that matter?

The assertion that Karen Santorum had an abortion is incorrect - I corrected the information. That is all.

[RobertEmmet]

23. Has anyone actually seen the medical records

or was her doctor ever given the okay to speak to the media? Because that article sounds like it's spin straight from the Santorums alone.
__________________________________________________________________________

The doctor suggested a drug to accelerate her labor.

"The cramps were labor, and she was going to get into more active labor,'' Santorum said. "Karen said, `We're not inducing labor, that's an abortion. No way. That isn't going to happen. I don't care what happens.' ''

As her fever subsided, Karen - a former neonatal intensive-care nurse - asked for something to stop the labor. Her doctors refused, Santorum recalled, citingmalpractice concerns.

Santorum said her labor proceeded without having to induce an abortion.

___________________________________________________________________________

She's incoherent and Santorum says the doctors told him unless the fetus was removed she'd die.

I find it hard to believe they didn't act then rather than wait around for things to take a natural course. Not that they'd ever admit it.

[Ms. Toad]

24. If they were doing pure spin, they would never have acknowledged

that they would have chosen to induce labor if her life was at risk. They would have spun it entirely as spontaneous labor following an infection, without offering the rest of their thoughts which are much harder to reconcile with the political positions he has taken.

The article is contemporaneous (or at least a lot more so than the ones claiming labor was induced), in a respectable newspaper with several Pullitzer prizes to its name - that seems reasonably reliable to me. I haven't seen any contemporaneous reports that labor was induced (the ones I have seen have all been written recently). FWIW, it is also consistent with my personal experience with families with similar beliefs.

The reasoning of the families I have spoken with (which took me a while to wrap my brain around) is that - generally - carrying to term is best. If that isn't possible because it would either kill the mother or death would be extraordinarily painful for the child, inducing labor is a moral second choice, with a range after birth from active intervention to save the child's life to letting nature take its course. At 16 weeks (particularly - in the cases I am familiar with ) birth is almost universally - but not inevitably fatal. A medical abortion, on the other hand, guarantees fetal death - and that is where they generally draw the line.

It is not dissimilar to end of life choices, if you think about it, with some people drawing a sharp line between active euthanasia and the rest of the spectrum (which includes actively prolonging life on one end through (on the other end) withholding all but comfort care, perhaps even administering doses of painkillers that might result in death - but stopping short of actively administering a dose that is guaranteed to be fatal).

I'm not trying to justify or reconcile Santorum's policy positions with the personal decisions he and his wife made - just trying to shed a little light on the personal thinking because my voluneer work puts me in a position to have spoken with a number of people with similar beliefs, facing (or who had faced) similar decisions - and the report in the Inquirer is entirely consistent with those other families.

[RobertEmmet]

26. Point is, we only have the Santorums' version.

It wasn't an investigative piece. The newspaper was only reporting on Santorum's story, so it's really not relevant how many Pulitzers it's received.

Maybe it all adds up for you, but it doesn't for me. And I absolutely can see them saying, yeah, we would have considered an induction but thank God we didn't have to, just to take the edge off what actually happened.

I'm sure it was a horrible, chaotic time for them, but I just don't see a man, his wife delirious and with the fetus already having a fatal condition, saying hold up, Doc, let's see if we can bring her temp down and talk it out rationally. And the malpractice comment sounds like pure bullshit to me. I find it hard to believe a doctor actually told him he was worried about malpractice at that moment. If by chance he did, it must have been he was convinced waiting any longer to deliver would kill her.

Bottom line, without medical confirmation, everyone is just speculating about what really happened. But I think it makes more sense that the fetus was intentionally - and rationally - delivered in order to save her life. We'll probably never know for sure.

[Ms. Toad]

30. What we have is a large reputable newspaper

Last edited Tue Jan 3, 2012, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)

publishing a contemporaneous piece based on what seem to have been fairly extensive interviews in which the Santorums admitted the would have induced (not that they would have considered it, but they actually would have induced) vs. several pieces published years after the fact which attribute the assertion that labor was induced back to the article I linked to which says it wasn't.

Here is what seems to be the article being widely quoted which claims labor was induced. (Many of the reports being quoted don't cite their source, but - but the wording is identical, and this article at least identifies the sources it bases its story on): http://early-onset-of-night.tumblr.com/post/6502308112/our-abortion-was-different-when-the-anti-choice

The problem is, either the sources cited are commentary without attribution, or don't support the contention the article makes:
Raw Story: Silent on the 1996 event
New Yorker: "Initially the outcome looked good, but Karen soon suffered an infection from the operation, and she went into premature labor. The Santorums decided against aborting their baby."
NOW: "The article, written by Karen Santorum, decried the use of late-term abortion under any circumstances. And it told the story of her own tragic pregnancy and the decision she and her family made – an option she and her husband would deny to other women." (What that decision was is not identified, nor is the article which is being boycotted that might have been more specific quoted). I haven't seen the Family Circle article, but here is a different description of the same article in Family Circle: "Family Circle ran an article by Karen Santorum (wife of Senator Rick Santorum) about her faith-based decision not to abort a pregnancy that almost cost her her life. Catholics For a Free Choice suggested to the editors that since this is a complex issue about which there is a diversity of religious opinion, they would be doing their readers a great service by letting them read the story of a religious family who reached a different conclusion. CFFC even provided a testimony that Family Circle could use." http://www.iwgonline.org/ktf/archive/1997/december/
Our Silver Blog: Probably the source of the assertion since it includes this comment: "Here’s the Santorums’ description of their second trimester abortion, written by Steve Goldstein, Philadelphia Inquirer, May 4, 1997" - but note that the Philadelphia Inquirer article pointed to is the one in which the Santorums describe spontaneous labor. The Terry Gross interview, which the article implies supports characterizing the process as an abortion does not; it includes a description essentially similar to the one in the Philadelphia Inquirer (labor began spontaneously in response to the uterine infection).

Sorry - but this rewriting after the fact seems too similar to the birthers pointing to their own sources created within the last few years to "prove" the contemporaneous newspaper reports of Obama's birth were wrong for me to be comfortable with it.

I find Santorum's positions despicable - my only beef is with how we attack his positions. If we are going to call him a liar about their child's birth, we ought have more than speculation to base it on.

[beyurslf]

2. Famous for breeding.

Just weird.

[BeaufortPenguin]

3. Republiclowns

think that women are only for breeding, cooking, and cleaning. Keep em' barefoot and pregnant and they will obey!

[Justice wanted]

4. This --in my humble opinion -- proves how screwed up mentally this family is.

[Turbineguy]

5. Well, at least

they aren't on the dole! But then again, they're white.

[a simple pattern]

22. Tax

credits.

Refundable tax credits.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Oh yes they are on the dole

Think about the deductions on their tax returns.

[Turbineguy]

36. Yes, that and

RW nutjobs pay them to breed.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

6. What a shock

I wonder if they know he's a Catholic? 'Cause you know they aren't "pure".

[Scairp]

8. Good point

But, they may give him a pass because to them the Mormon would be worse. And I suppose even they realize that Perry is a bigger clown the Bush II. On the other hand, who gives a shit? Santorum's a freak so he's in good company with the Duggar bunch.

[tnvoter]

9. another great reason to vote for Obama

I'm against almost everything this family does...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. Nothing at all surprises me about this gigantic family.

After all, here's a woman who does nothing but pop out kids and hand them over to her other kids to raise, so of course she's got it good.

All the kids are raised being taught and trained that it's the kids' role in life to raise their all the kids their mom pops out. Naturally, the multiple kids have almost no time with their mom (and dad). And this woman wants to have more kids.

She likes her show and the popularity it's brought her, no doubt about that. And naturally, all this is done purportedly for God.

Of course they would back Santorum.

[eyewall]

18. Isn't this basically how a bee colony works?

"All the kids are raised being taught and trained that it's the kids' role in life to raise all the kids their mom pops out. "

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. Is it? LOL! So that family is like a bee colony, with the queen bee

doing nothing but getting pregnant and popping out offspring and nothing else.

[Rozlee]

31. So repeating that one.

Good imagery to use on a couple of radically pro-breeder in-laws of mine. Who use birth control and don't admit it, natch.

[shintao]

11. Rick is right, cut expenses!!!

Why don't we start cutting Congressional pay back to 1815, along with all their benefits and perks?? We can call it Trickle Down Economics and the Rights will go along with it. I have always thought you should run for office as a place of honor, not a place to go get rich and screw Americans over. I think Rick agrees with me.


From 1789 to 1815, members of Congress received only a per diem (daily payment) of $6.00 while in session. Members began receiving an annual salary in 1815, when they were paid $1,500 per year.

[evilhime]

12. He could win

Just with their family votes!

[Rozlee]

32. Heh.

[mysuzuki2]

13. Let me point out the obvious here.

If there had been more santorum there would be fewer Duggars.

[Rozlee]

33. LOL.

[gopiscrap]

14. It's so sad

Our nation has become so dumb that people would even care what the Duggers have to say!!!!

[hamsterjill]

27. You are absolutely spot on!

My thoughts exactly. The only claim to fame that the Duggars have is mega birthing. That's a pretty pathetic excuse for anyone to care what they think politically.

[DRoseDARs]

15. I guess the thought of their children cleaning public toilets was too repugnant. n/t

[Octafish]

17. Ka-BOOM!!!

Their children weren't born to do scut work.

[Drum]

25. Just a picture....

Look, "Santorum" will only be a term for something else---just Google it---to a whole generation+ of people, no matter our orientations....

That he's hiding behind a refuge of "birth" or taking their endorsements just shows how close he is to the precipice of oblivion.

B'Bye Rick.

[lunatica]

28. And soon all those Duggar kids will start their own families!

Isn't that exciting?!

The last name Duggar will be quite common in our future Idiocracy.

[Botany]

29. OMG

"I'm asking families, Christians all over American to get behind Rick Santorum ..." Dugger

BTW these right to life idiots just had a miscarriage in Dec. w/ baby #20 and
the Duggers don't live in Iowa anyway.

[Rozlee]

35. If I weren't an atheist

I'd pray for early menopause for Michelle Duggar. For her own sake and her kids'. Dollars to donuts, she's out there right now taking a breather and waiting impatiently to jump into the ring to try for her 21st. She's 45 years old and it's about time she started to rust. With our luck, her factory parts will last as long as the Immortal fucking Highlander. We've got 7 billion people on this planet, and 3,000 children die every day from hunger and malnutrition. If she was such a good Christian and wanted so many children to love, she'd have put a cork in herself long ago and started adopting starving orphans from third world countries instead of constantly incubating.