Philadelphia launches voluntary recount after finding major vote total discrepancies

[Coyotl]

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2016, 09:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Bill Palmer December 2, 2016

One day after Palmer Report and other news outlets reported that a major change to the official voting totals out of Philadelphia had reduced the size of Donald Trumps lead in Pennsylvania by more than twenty thousand votes, Philadelphia announced today that its launching an immediate and voluntary recount to determine if even more votes had been originally miscounted or excluded. Even as Jill Stein continues her legal battle to try to force the entire state of Pennsylvania to perform a recount, Philadelphia isnt waiting around to find out whether a recount will be legally required.

Pennsylvanias original vote totals had Donald Trump winning the state by just over seventy thousand votes. But the sudden revisions out of Philadelphia have now reduced the size of his overall lead to fewer than fifty thousand votes. The Philadelphia recount could shift these totals even further. The wildly shifting numbers in the state also give legal fuel to Jill Steina case for a statewide recount, both because the shifts suggest vote counting irregularities, and because the winning margin in the state is now even smaller.

If the vote totals shift in Pennsylvania such that Hillary Clinton ends up with the most votes in the state, either due to the voluntary Philadelphia recount or the still-litigated statewide recount, the states electoral votes would automatically be reassigned from Trump to Clinton. This is considered crucial, as if Clinton ends up winning all three recounted states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, shell become president-elect instead of Trump.

Read more: http://www.palmerreport.com/news/philadelphia-launches-voluntary-recount-after-finding-major-vote-total-discrepancies/338/

---

[div class"excerpt"]from:
[link:https://question2016blog.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/chances-of-wisconsin-presidential-vote-results-shown-to-be-1-in-850-and-worse-for-other-states/Chances of Wisconsin Presidential Vote Results shown to be 1 in 850, and Worse for Other States]
November 28, 2016 / question2016blog

The Columbia Free Press has published images showing the statistical likelihood of variance from the exit poll results that the reported vote counts represent.

..... Clinton vote share is shown, as underperforming the exit poll result of 50.5% with only 47.6% of the vote count (Figure 2). The likelihood of this result is 1 in 60 elections, or 1.6%.



...............[center]

[Farmgirl1961]

1. Hot Damn!

Does anybody know if the recount in Philadelphia will begin tomorrow or Monday? Does anybody know how long it might take to do the voluntary recount?

[lonestarnot]

3. Hope they start tonight! LOL

[lonestarnot]

2. WOW! Excellent.

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Thar she blows!

Good to see this happening without hostile action.

[Botany]

5. It just wasn't in PA, WI, and MI this was a nation wide scam

Georgia was a "toss up" state less then week before the election bu HRC lost by 20
points?

Time to ask Trump about the millions of $s he was paying for the data mining/internet
firm that was run by Russians in London, England.

[Monteg92]

31. Georgia is republican controld

[Coyotl]

33. And it ended up a real squeaker at that. Correlation ot Senater races is noteworthy too.

Putting aside the issue of unadjusted exit polls, look at the difference between states with contested Senate seats and you have a much larger red shift. Missouri is the big one.

Comparing unadjusted 2004 with unadjusted 2016 is apples and apples, thus a valid comparison. There had to be a larger shift this time of Trump loses and the Senate would be lost too.
[center]


Wisconsin's large shift is what was required to defeat Russ Fiengold. Missouri's was needed for Blunt to come from behind. Without Florida's red shift, Rubio loses too.

[Botany]

35. The media will not cover the fact that republicans have cheated and still cheat to "win"

elections. In KY's 2015 governor's race the democratic sec. of state had a 5 point
lead going into the election but lost by 9 points, in Kansas Brownback won re-election
despite having done an awful job and having both Rs and Ds be against him, and Walker's
win in his recall vote didn't pass the smell test either.

[Coyotl]

37. Once people realize election theft is the perfect crime, no remedy in recounts, no way to go back

and prove it was stolen, then we will finally have hand counted at the precinct paper ballots and recounts won't be needed unless there is a really close squeaker.

Insiders control what the vote count is, no two ways about it. This is why the most partisan people seek to control elections. This is why the chair of the Ohio Republicans in 2004 was in charge of counting Cuyahoga County, to rig it. We can't trust people to conduct fair election if their conduct is not transparent.

[Botany]

45. Beth Clarkson a professor of math and engineering @ Wichta State U.

has done some real good work in this field.

http://cjonline.com/news-state/2015-08-24/kris-kobach-seeks-block-release-voting-machine-paper-tapes

"Clarkson, a certified quality engineer with a Ph.D. in statistics, has analyzed election returns in Kansas and elsewhere over several elections that indicate “a statistically significant” pattern where the percentage of Republican votes increase the larger the size of the precinct. The pattern could be voter fraud or a demographic trend that hasn’t been picked up by extensive polling."

BTW Clarkson was trying to study voting in KS but KS Sec. of State Kris Kobach* blocked her from looking @ the data.
Kobach more then any other person helped to hand the Presidency to Trump and he is Trump's pick as Sec. of Home-
land Security.

* Before a single vote was cast, the election was fixed by GOP and Trump operatives.

Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.

The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report,
“The GOP’s Stealth War on Voters,” 8/24/2016.

Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393

On Tuesday, we saw Crosscheck elect a Republican Senate and as President, Donald Trump. The electoral putsch was aided by nine other methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters, methods detailed in my book and film, including “Caging,” “purging,” blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to “provisional” ballots that will never be counted.


http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

[Coyotl]

47. That work is flawed. She got conned by Charnin's CVS book scam.

This: “a statistically significant” pattern where the percentage of Republican votes increase the larger the size of the precinct..." is because the larger precincts are Republican precincts. The correlation reverses in some demographics. Charnin (TruthisAll to us here on DU) has sure done his part in creating disinformation and discrediting election integrity as CT. Too bad he polluted otherwise smart people.

Caging Dem voters isn't a false tale, it is standard operating procedure for Republicans. It is the sum of their everywhere and everything possible to shave points strategy that allows for minority rule. Making sure a lot of Democrats cannot even vote is a huge building block in their power base, not the least of which is Jim Crow felon laws in racist states, something which could easily be overturned on equal rights grounds if it were challenged in the courts.

[Botany]

48. i tend to buy Clarkson's work because it fits in w/Jennifer Brunner's Everest Study ....

.... that showed the machines and tabulators were open to "problems."

[moda253]

62. Agree we need a 50 state recount. EOM

[Botany]

69. we need an audit

n/t

[MADem]

6. No matter how this ends, we will know that he had to CHEAT HER TO BEAT HER. nt

[enid602]

29. Thank you

Thank you. It's one thing to be facing adversity, but another to do so voluntarily, with our tail between our legs.

[ificandream]

7. Wait for the book (or the movie)

Nothing will be revealed now. It's too soon. Wait for a writer to investigate and figure it out.

[sarcasmo]

8. Be ready for a 3 AM tweet storm to distract from the real story.

[Hugin]

25. It looks like yakking it up with the President of Taiwan was the distraction this time.

Should be good for a couple of cycles. And, a sweetheart deal for China.

[royable]

9. IF recounts end up being done in PA, WI and MI, and IF Clinton were to end up winning all three,

has there been any hint from the Clinton camp that she would step forward to claim the presidency? I've seen speculation on DU, but wondered is there's been any actual news. I've also wondered whether there's been any hint of whether the Clinton camp might be thinking about cabinet positions and such so that they could hit the ground running if this were to happen. I know, lots of "ifs". I could certainly imagine that if the Clinton camp HAS been thinking about this, they'd need to keep it under wraps since news of their considering it could rile up the Drumphistas.

[Squinch]

10. WTF?

[woundedkarma]

11. the way I see it...

If Clinton makes any sort of ruckus at all, people (a lot of them in whatever position they're in) will be less likely to support her. She has to play along, say she supports the new president even if she doesn't and stay out of the news.

If she does that... she won't reduce whatever .00000000000001% chance she has the electoral college will blow up and choose her.

This goes the same way with the recounts... she needs them but can't fight too hard for them or everyone will say she's a sore loser.

Not the person we need in the white house (we need a real fighter) but I'd take anyone including the shrub over trump any day.

[royable]

15. That certainly makes sense, balancing being called sore loser vs. fighting. n/t

[ailsagirl]

16. At least with junior...

there was a semblance of dignity and purpose and many took him seriously. With drumpf, he's so over the top that any degree of redemption is impossible.

[Cracklin Charlie]

20. I think you're right, plus...

She needs to be seen as a calm, steady professional.

Good thing she knows how to do that, cause this thing could get real ugly.

[rzemanfl]

26. I would take any Bush, even Billy. n/t

[Renew Deal]

12. Would she have a choice?

[Igel]

27. Meaningless question.

The electors that those states would have vote for president would then be HRC's. She'd have a majority of the vote. She would win the only vote that counts under the Constitution that we alternately say must be defended and then turn around and decry as a piece of crap.

"Claiming" is a specious word, and has as much weight as "concession." It's something that's awarded. If she wins the presidency, she'd certainly take it, but would have a rough landing with far less transition time. Then again, she'd probably need far less because all those people currently working in the administration that put their country and its government first would then stay instead of leaving as soon as possible to poke Trump in the eye.

[Coyotl]

34. Usuually, the winner of the election accepts the victory.

YUUUUGE D'OH!!!!

[wordpix]

63. too many "ifs" is right. First things first - Recount!

[JudyM]

13. Every state where he won should be doing a voluntary recount if they have statutory authority.

[KewlKat]

14. best news, thanks for the post

[inanna]

17. This is quite extraordinary.

Thanks for posting - gives some hope.

[Cracklin Charlie]

18. I cannot get over the discrepancy between exit polls and actual votes in Missouri this year.

Missouri, my state, and Utah both above 10%. And four other states at or near 8%. Those are huge numbers; and, nationwide, represent thousands and thousands of voters!

We need a new election! We deserve a new, FAIR election!

[VisceralM]

19. This is great and all..

But I'm not seeing this reported anywhere but that one blog. Any collaborating sources?

[ffr]

21. This isn't a state matter anymore, this is a federal matter.

The federal government & law enforcement need to act before this disaster of a POTUS-elect becomes an illegitimate figure.

[uponit7771]

38. +1

[Wibly]

22. Collaboration

Looked everywhere, can't find collaboration.
Do not believe posting false information helps the cause.
Please provide proof of the claim here.

[uppityperson]

23. I found articles. Here's one

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20161203_Philadelphia_starts_an_election_recount_of_4_percent_of.html?mobi=true

[Aimee in OKC]

49. Voting machine information in Philadelphia ...

Philadelphia County = Danaher Shouptronic 1242 DRE-Push Button in 1,686 precincts

... the Shouptronic used a second programmable read-only memory chip.

The key property of programmable read-only memory or PROM is that once data is written to PROM, the data is difficult or impossible to erase. In contrast, data in read-write memory can be written, erased, and changed arbitrarily. In eect, the programmable read-only memory used in the Shouptronic cartridge has properties similar to the paper ballots retained by the Optech scanner or to the printed paper record of the Microvote machine. All of these machines maintained redundant but more vulnerable records in read-write memory. On the Optech machine, the read-write memory was in the memory cartridge, while on the Microvote and Shouptronic machines the read-write memory was a permanent part of the machine itself.

KNOWN SECURITY CONCERNS:
*SECURITY SEALS = Ideally, the 1242’s exposed ports, memory card access areas and case seams would be covered with tamper-evident security seals. The integrity of these seals should be maintained at all times, and only breached under controlled, explained circumstances. Seals should be logged to maintain chain of custody of sensitive materials.

*MEMORY CARDS = The 1242 is an older type of machine that uses a particularly sensitive and volatile type of memory (battery-backed RAM memory). Care should be taken with memory cards and they should only be handled by pollworkers and authorized election officials, then in controlled circumstances such as the opening and closing of polls.

*BROKEN BUTTONS, BROKEN LIGHTS = The 1242 is a “button-matrix” DRE where the voter presses a button over which the machine’s paper ballot face is placed (under a plastic cover). A light lights up next to each selection by the voter. These buttons and lights, especially the frequently used ones in Federal races, can break or burn-out. If you see evidence of this – e.g., a light not lighting up after multiple button presses – you should request that the machine be pulled from service or that the button in question be serviced.

*FLEEING VOTERS/PREMATURE VOTING = Some voters can be easily confused in that they press the large “VOTE” button too early or not at all. If a voter complains that they only were able to vote on the first few races, they probably pressed the “VOTE” button before they were finished voting their ballot. Unfortunately, there’s not much to be done here other than emphasize that voters should make sure that they press the “VOTE” button only after they are certain they have voted as they want to in all races on the ballot. If a voter neglects to press the “VOTE” button and leaves a valid ballot on the machine, poll workers will probably have procedures to deal with this problem. ...

*INCORRECT BALLOT STYLE = The 1242 can accommodate a number of different ballots, for different precincts, by disallowing voters to vote in contests for which they are not eligible. If a voter complains that their party (in a primary) races are not activated or that local races specific to their precinct are not activated, the poll worker probably pushed the incorrect ballot style option. The poll worker should cancel that ballot and activate the correct one.

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/danaher/shouptronic/

[LanternWaste]

61. Corroboration (shrug)

Look harder, it exists.
Do not believe your bias results in a story being false helps the cause.
Please learn difference between proof and evidence.

My weekly six-of-one-half-a-dozen-of-the-other quota now filled.

[BumRushDaShow]

24. Very limited recount

This is only going to involve 75 of the 1686 precincts (which is about 150 machines out of > 3000).

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philadelphia-Recount-Presidential-Election-Trump-Clinton-Stein-404060246.html

The problem is not so much here in Philly (the vote changes that were advertised were mostly inclusion of the absentee and provisional ballots).... but in some of the other counties like Erie, that suddenly went R for the first time in who knows how long and the NE PA counties that were closer than normal. That, IMHO, is where a closer look is needed.

[uponit7771]

39. Why isn't the count state wide and what % triggers a recount of whole state? thx in advance

[BumRushDaShow]

42. The state voting laws

require petitions of at least 3 electors per precinct to file by a set date, which was a difficult hurdle for most counties (Philadelphia City/County alone has 1686 precincts/divisions).

However if the difference between the candidates is 0.5%, that triggers an automatic statewide recount, and I think some of the efforts going on with the limited recounts are trying to get enough recovered votes to make the 0.5% figure.

[Aimee in OKC]

50. Voting Machine info in Erie

Erie County ... ES&S iVotronic = DRE-Touchscreen for 152 precincts

KNOWN SECURITY CONCERNS:
iVotronic_PEB = The PEB slot on the face of the iVotronic is particularly sensitive. The EVEREST study showed that a voter with a magnet and a properly programmed PDA (with an infrared port) could gain privileged access to the sensitive functions of the machine. ...

The VVPAT printer (RTAL printer) = Is connected to the iVotronic via a cable that is connected to the top of the machine. This cable, unless the jurisdiction has purchased special cables or connectors, can be disconnected by a voter and various types of mischief could be performed (from printing extra VVPAT records to messing with the internals of the iVotronic). If you observe anyone disconnecting this cable, alert the pollworkers immediately. If a pollworker is disconnecting this cable, it should only be to swap out a printer and you should be able to observe the whole process.

AN ATTACKER who gains access to a PEB for a short or extended period of time can change votes on the PEB or attack the central Election Management System when the PEB is returned to election headquarters. PEB devices should only be handled by pollworkers and pollworkers should keep a vigilant watch over their use of the PEBs throughout the day (that is, they should not be leaving them around casually and the area in which the PEBs are kept should be secure and monitored at all times).

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/ess/ivotronic/

[BumRushDaShow]

53. Philadelphia uses this

Shouptronic 1242

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/danaher/shouptronic/



Pretty much an old-school "digital" upgrade to the old lever machines that were used for something like 40 years before we got these. The surrounding/rim counties for Philly use these as well....

[Igel]

28. Nice graph.

Doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Had students do a lab once. Some of the yardsticks they used were missing about an inch of wood. Students didn't notice.

Then when they said something was 80 cm long they insisted they'd measured correctly. Many had trouble accepting that missing 2-3 cm at the beginning meant that their "80" number was just plain wrong. They'd assumed that the number they read off had to be right, sort of assuming that all measurements start at 0. They couldn't release their bad assumption, they fought giving it up and admitting they'd made a mistake. Perhaps because they don't believe they could be wrong, because they consider mistakes humiliating, perhaps because mistakes mean more work. Hard to know.

All the exit polls have built in assumptions. They were wrong. And many can't release their bad assumption and fight giving it up. Perhaps because they don't believe they could be wrong, because they consider mistakes humiliating, perhaps because mistakes mean more work. Hard to know.

[uponit7771]

40. A 20+add to HRC isn't an assumption though, is it the norm? tia

[tomp]

56. are you an electoral statistics expert?

please explain your reasoning as to why/how the exit polls, universally accepted as the gold standard of election fairness, are "wrong."

[Mc Mike]

30. Yep. They could hide enough stolen votes that flipped the state results from D to R

in Philly and Pgh alone.

[uponit7771]

41. +1, looks like they're going to the big counties to do the recounts.. its the close counties that...

... have the biggest issue IMHO or the counties that flipped blue to red hard.

Those need the biggest attention

[Mc Mike]

43. We have to try and fight them everywhere we can, up. nt.

[BumRushDaShow]

44. THIS EXACTLY

I think they need to go look at Erie County that had a 2,000 vote difference between Clinton and Trump, where Trump is being shown as having won it, which is abnormal based on past elections where Erie always went D, even during the Reagan era.

[wisteria]

46. They need to check out the western PA numbers.

Many new and unusual people at the polls, and very easy to sign in once, and vote many times.

[lagomorph777]

68. Well, voter fraud (as opposed to electoral fraud) is very rare, but Donnie said it happened

so let's look.

[colorado_ufo]

32. Where do I need to go online to contribute to the recount support?

[crazylikafox]

36. try this:

https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

[colorado_ufo]

60. Thanks!

[MFM008]

51. Look Seattle always

Turns elections in this state.
Count them and count them again.
It took 3 recounts in 2004 till Gregoire won by 129 votes for Gov.

[wordpix]

52. good news! Keep counting and keep Drumpf out of the WH

[mitty14u2]

54. Jill Stein needs more recount donations to overcome Wisconsins malicious price hike

Jill Stein was initially told by Wisconsin officials that the recount would cost approximately $1.1 million. But after the state tried and largely failed to sabotage her in court to prevent a hand recount from happening, it’s now trying a new approach: charging an insane amount of money for each of the counties that have agreed to do hand recounts. According to Wisconsin’s official election website, at the time this article is being written, Stein is now on the hook for $3,898,340 instead of the mere $1.1 million she was told.

Stein has already received more than $6.8 million in donations, so she has enough cash on hand to pay Wisconsin’s sudden ransom. But to do, she’ll have to tap into the funds that she had initially raised to pay for the Michigan and Pennsylvania recount fees, as well as the attorney fees which will be required to fight those two states to force the recounts. In other words, because she’s now being sabotaged by the Republican officials running Wisconsin, she legitimately needs more money than has been raised up to this point. Stein’s donation page is still active, for those who believe in the recount cause and are in a position to donate.

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/jill-stein-needs-recount-donation-overcome-wisconsins-malicious-price-hike/348/



So please if you can donate here is the link: https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

$6,876,840.51 RAISED --- GOAL: $9,500,000.00

stolen from; http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512639715

[greytdemocrat]

58. What the heck is a Bill Palmer

And why should any of us care???

9.5 Mil??? Why not 20??? I'm sorry, this
sounds like a scam.

[roamer65]

55. Good. That is exactly where we need the recount.

[Coyotl]

57. Jill Stein Campaign Drops Statewide Recount Effort In Pennsylvania

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Jill Stein Campaign Drops Statewide Recount Effort In Pennsylvania
December 3, 20167:54 PM ET - Updated at 8:48 ET with Lawrence Otter's comments

Jill Stein has ended her statewide ballot recount effort in Pennsylvania. Lawrence M. Otter, a lawyer for the former Green Party presidential candidate, withdrew the lawsuit filed with the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania early Saturday evening.

"Petitioners are regular citizens of ordinary means," the filing states. "They cannot afford to post the $1,000,000 bond required by the Court."

Stein elaborated on Twitter, asking: "How odd is it that we must jump through bureaucratic hoops and raise millions of dollars so we can trust our election results?"

........ this doesn't spell an end to recounts in the state entirely, Stein's lawyer, Lawrence Otter, tells The Philadelphia Inquirer:

"Stein's campaign intends to continue its county-by-county recount effort in Pennsylvania, said attorney Larry Otter. That requires efforts in individual precincts — a process that requires three voters to petition their local election boards.

.....

Dr. Jill Stein @DrJillStein 4:00 PM - 3 Dec 2016
How odd is it that we must jump through bureaucratic hoops and raise millions of dollars so we can trust our election results? #Recount2016

[Coyotl]

59. Jill Stein to pursue Pennsylvania recount petition in federal court

Green Party's Stein to pursue Pennsylvania recount petition in federal court
By David DeKok | HARRISBURG, Pa. Sun Dec 4, 2016 | 1:40am EST

Green Party candidate Jill Stein late Saturday vowed to bring her fight for a recount of votes cast in Pennsylvania in the U.S. presidential election to federal court, after a state judge ordered her campaign to post a $1 million bond.

“The Stein campaign will continue to fight for a statewide recount in Pennsylvania," Jonathan Abady, lead counsel to Stein's recount efforts, said in a statement.

Saying it has become clear that "the state court system is so ill-equipped to address this problem," the statement said "we must seek federal court intervention."

The Stein campaign said it will file for emergency relief in the Pennsylvania effort in federal court on Monday, "demanding a statewide recount on constitutional grounds."

The bond was set by the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania a day after representatives of President-elect Donald Trump requested a $10 million bond, according to court papers.

The court gave the petitioners until 5 p.m. local time (2200 GMT) on Monday to post the bond, but said it could modify the amount if shown good cause. Instead, Stein's campaign withdrew.

.................

[BlueInPhilly]

64. THIS IS NOT LBN

I questioned the Daily News Bin before, and now I am questioning the integrity of this report.

This is not a reputable source, and should not be posted in LBN.

[Jose Garcia]

65. Philly recount completed - Hillary gained 5 votes

The great Philadelphia recount has ended, and Hillary Clinton got five more votes than she had in her previous total.

Donald Trump’s number stayed the same, as did the totals for Independent candidate Gary Johnson and the Green Party’s Jill Stein after the City Commissioners Office recounted votes in 75 of Philadelphia’s more than 1600 voting divisions. The recount had been launched by 250-plus Philadelphia residents answering the call of Stein, who asked for three petitioners in each of Pennsylvania’s voting district to file recounts to assist in her attempts to get a statewide recount through a Commonwealth Court and then Federal Court lawsuit.

Stein’s camp had planned on using the district-level recounts as possible evidence for hacking or fraud. The recount turned up no instances of fraud or hacking here, City Commissioner Al Schmidt said, emphasizing the difficulty of hacking voting machines that aren’t connected to the internet.

“We have very primitive voting machines here,” he said. “Our voting system is only vulnerable to individual cases of voting fraud, as we’ve seen. Whenever it does occur it would be someone going in and voting for somebody else or an election board manually adding votes, which is an entirely different thing than hacking.”

more: http://billypenn.com/2016/12/05/the-philly-recount-is-done-and-it-didnt-help-hillary-much-at-all/

[Coyotl]

66. City Commissioner says "... or an election board manually adding votes" .... Whoa!

Which they would recount the same, of course. Once an election is rigged, little left to do but ask who was in control. Recounts don't change rigged elections.

[lagomorph777]

67. I hope they also recount small towns like Blue Ball, Intercourse, and Paradise

just because I like saying Blue Ball, Intercourse, and Paradise.