Bernie Sanders: Trump Won Because People Are Tired of Politically Correct Rhetoric
Source: Mediaite
by Alex Griswold 12:14 pm, December 13th, 2016
When asked to diagnose why Republican president-elect Donald Trump won the presidency, former Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said the public was tired of constantly politically correct rhetoric.
Obviously, (Trump) said things that created tremendous controversy, offense, in some cases, real genuine pain for some folks, Muslim-Americans in particular. But theres a sense he was violating some set of manners that shouldnt exist. What do you make of that? MSNBCs Chris Hayes asked Sanders during [link:http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-hayes-and-bernie-sanders-hold-town-hall-with-trump-voters-in-wisconsin/their townhall Monday night].
I think he said he will not be politically correct, Sanders replied. I think he said some outrageous and painful things, but I think people are tired of the same old politically correct rhetoric, and they believe that he was speaking from his heart and willing to take on everybody.
Sanders definition of political correctness was someone different than its usual meaning. It means you have a set of talking points which have been poll-tested and focus-group-tested and thats what you say rather than whats really going on. And often, what you are not allowed to say are things which offend very powerful people, he said.
-snip-
Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-trump-won-because-people-are-tired-of-politically-correct-rhetoric/
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)It's disturbing that Bernie is downplaying the fact that DT won the EC because too many people are racists or at least comfortable with racist campaign memes.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)See the quote:
"It means you have a set of talking points which have been poll-tested and focus-group-tested and thats what you say rather than whats really going on. And often, what you are not allowed to say are things which offend very powerful people, he said.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)from the racism, misogyny, homophobia, Islamophobia, and anti-immigrant fervor of many of DT's supporters.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Maybe once in a while that's not true, but not many times.
politically correct means using "African American" instead of the N word or similar and generally not insulting people because of how they look (i.e., firing a woman on TV because she's past a certain age) or because of their background.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)ananda
(28,782 posts)Many of Trump's deplorables would rather die than see the people
and groups they hate be treated equally with full human and civil
rights and equal opportunity.
They will give up healthcare; all social safety nets; decent public
education; safe food, water, and drugs; a liveable environment;
and a planet with the ability to support our lives -- just to keep
Blacks, immigrants, LGBT's, Muslims, and others from being
part of their lives and getting a fair shake.
And they don't mind taking the rest of us down with them.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)as long as all those "others" starve to death with them
Different Drummer
(7,528 posts)sfwriter
(3,032 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,573 posts)The typical Trump supporter was racist and and Trump did not hold back in talking directly to them.
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
Post removed
Me.
(35,454 posts)Couldn't win but can't shut up
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)as opposed to: Couldn't win and has shrunk into mute conclusion.
Me.
(35,454 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Rincewind
(1,199 posts)Bernie Sanders babbles incoherently again.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)What the ever loving? If ever a man with a hammer was finding nails everywhere he looked....
"Sanders definition of political correctness was someone different than its usual meaning. It means you have a set of talking points which have been poll-tested and focus-group-tested and thats what you say rather than whats really going on. And often, what you are not allowed to say are things which offend very powerful people, he said.
Whut?
seaglass
(8,170 posts)RedWedge
(618 posts)a racist ass. Conflating these two is ignorant and out of touch.
There's definitely a place for people who speak honestly in politics. Paul Wellstone spoke from his heart and people on all sides voted for him -- even those who didn't agree with him. They felt it was better to get the devil they think is honest rather than the devil they think lies. A lot of people will vote that way. But it has nothing to do with so-called political correctness. I'd say Sanders should know better, but we saw throughout the campaign that he really doesn't.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You were never on the side of the oppressed, you just played your fans for fools and they were down with the okey doke because none of that racist rhetiric harms you or the people you care about. Fuck you, sir. Fuck you and fuck off.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)I mean seriously. To dismiss objections to hate speech as "the same old politically correct rhetoric," is to dismiss hate. "Politically correct" is a pejorative meant to malign as political and prudish any demands for an inclusive public discourse that does not denigrate people based on their sex, race, religion or ethnic origin. I guess all that stuff in the Constitution is "the same old politically correct rhetoric."
TeamPooka
(24,155 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Bernie did not say that was the reason Trump won.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)so it's all good.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Where's the photos of an SoS chained to other protesters???
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)So the article is also a lie (not just the headline).
Watch the video.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Rational inference seems a rather dramatic blind spot of yours. Unsupported allegations however, are not.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Nothing he says at any point in the town hall indicates that he believes Trump won because of political correctness.
He is asked about specific Trump voters and gives his thoughts on them.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)context was of their discussion -- the questions preceding this brief clip?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You can find it on YouTube if you didn't see it when it aired on MSNBC.
Or how about this clip on the MSNBC website:
Sen. Bernie Sanders on why Trump won
"There's a lot of pain in this country," says Senator Sanders, who joins Chris Hayes for a town hall with voters in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
You can find the video here:
http://www.msnbc.com/all
Hayes explicitly asks Sanders why Trump won. Sanders does not mention political correctness.
KPN
(15,585 posts)There's a novel idea -- but they didn't and won't. Doncha know that Hills lost because of Bernie.
These people are killing the democratic party before our eyes.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)This is a verbatim quote (not the beginning of the quote, but part of it).
I don't think the headline is that far a reach.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Did you watch the video?
otohara
(24,135 posts)When asked to diagnose why Republican president-elect Donald Trump WON the presidency, former Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said the public was tired of constantly politically correct rhetoric.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Did you watch the video?
LisaM
(27,758 posts)Please let us know what the so very different question was!!!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You will note that the actual quoted question in the article does not include Hayes asking Sanders if he thinks that Trump won because of political correctness. Hayes does not ask that, nor does Sanders make such a claim. Thus, the headline is a lie and the article itself is a lie since it begins with "When asked to diagnose why Republican president-elect Donald Trump won the presidency.." which is something that is not present in the video (nor anywhere in the town hall).
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)He redefined it to jive with his skewed view of the world where everything begins and ends with economics.
He completely ignored the FACT that political correctness is a term used by racists to condone their hate.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Also, he at no point said that the reason Trump won was because of political correctness.
On the MSNBC website, you can see Hayes explicitly ask him why he thinks Trump won.
He does not say political correctness.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)What the hell was he thinking? Coates was on Chris Hayes and was very disappointed, compared it to similar boneheaded pivots we saw during the primary.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)There's a link to it in the Bernie Sanders group.
This is just another excuse to Bernie bash
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Made some very salient points.
geomon666
(7,512 posts)Hayes then asked what political correctness means to Sanders. He responded:
"What it means is you have a set of talking points which have been poll-tested and focus-group-tested and that's what you say rather than what's really going on. And often what you are not allowed to say are things which offend very powerful people. For years and years we have been told by Republicans and many Democrats that our trade policy was a great idea, that it was working for America. The American people don't believe it. The American people I think want candidates and politicians to have the guts to stand up to the billionaire class and start representing the middle class and working families of America. I don't think it's more complicated than that."
Hayes then challenged Sanders' contention that political correctness has anything to do with trade policy. Instead, Hayes suggested that political correctness was more about not offending people for identity-based reasons.
"[Trump] was going after these consensus things but he was always saying things frankly that when we talk about political correctness are basically just rules about not being a jerk," said Hayes. "He's violating taboos that a lot of people think we should keep."
But Sanders hit back. "He was talking about the media," said Sanders. "Do people here think the media reflects the reality of American society?"
He's absolutely right but nobody can be bothered to read or even if they did, understand what he's saying.
seaglass
(8,170 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)I think Hayes is right about that. Most people who invoke PC are those that don't care who they offend. Now, Donald Trump may well have been talking about the media, but his followers didn't get that and many of the worst just want to use these words with impunity, which I hope never become accepted.
Mostly it is about not being a jerk, but it sometimes does seem like people are overly sensitive.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)and he knows it and I'm sure you know it, too.
What Sanders did was dismiss the reality of the racism behind DT's supporters. Why, I don't know.
Political correctness - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness
Political correctness. ... The term political correctness (adjectivally: politically correct, commonly abbreviated to PC; or P.C. or to p.c.) in modern usage, is used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to particular groups in society.
geomon666
(7,512 posts)You say Sanders dismissed the racism of some Trump supporters. You are obviously wrong. Go watch the video. He's talking the Trump voters who wanted change in the political and didn't see it with Hillary. If you want to label those people racist and dismiss them again,you're free to do so. I believe doing so risks having us being handed our asses again to us in '18 and '20.
But I implore every here, to go watch the video. I'll even link the full video.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)and/or Islamophobics, and/or anti-immigrants.
And he IS minimizing that and trying to excuse their feelings.
The average DT supporter is financially better off than the average Hillary supporter -- even though the red states are less expensive areas of the country. And the people in exit polls who said they were most concerned about economics voted for Hillary. So economics wasn't the primary motivation of many DT supporters.
geomon666
(7,512 posts)Do they look like neo nazis to you? And I agree with you, many are racists but he is trying to reach those who can be changed. That's the whole point.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)If he's trying to reach them, he should start by giving them real information. For example, when the woman complained about Obamacare, instead of just nodding his sympathy, he should have explained that her Governor rejected the funds for Medicaid expansion.
This article was written in 2015, before DT's hate campaign really got going. It's probably worse in WI now.
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/story/news/investigations/2015/08/13/wisconsin-hate-groups/31567043/
Experts fear a string of racially motivated crimes in the South could spark other cases across the country, including Wisconsin, where nearly a dozen active hate groups exist and more than 300 hate crimes have been committed over the past five years alone.
Extremist groups here demonstrated the violence they are capable of in March when a one-time skinhead went on a bank-robbery spree that left himself and two men dead, including a Wisconsin state trooper.
A Gannett Wisconsin Media investigation revealed that 11 of the nation's 784 active hate groups operate in Wisconsin with Green Bay, Mercer, Milwaukee, New Berlin, and Shawano serving as home bases for several groups. A handful of Ku Klux Klan chapters were active in the state as recently as recently as 2013, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, a national organization that tracks such groups.
geomon666
(7,512 posts)What does the rest of that have to do with this town hall meeting? You had elderly folks in there, you even had some POC in there. Are they racists too?
Bernie is trying to reach those Trump voters who got swindled by talk of jobs coming back. These people don't give a fuck about Mexicans or Muslims. These people have seen their towns disappear over the years and here comes Monorail Trump promising them the moon. We're trying to get them back on our side.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)geomon666
(7,512 posts)and that's a mistake that's going to cost us in '18 and '20.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)When only part of it is transcripts bed, or posters only read part of the quote, or only care about the part that confirms their inherent bias, it has a meaning that is quite different than either what he said or intended.
It!s exactly like when Hillary said many of Trump's voters were deplorable, but some of them were deplorable -- and then went on to define deplorable. What Trump voters heard was "you're deplorable," based on their inherent bias, and that's EXACTLY what we're seeing with this quote now.
RobinA
(9,875 posts)with what he siad. I have also heard "politically correct" used in the way he defines it, particularly by younger people, although that's just my anecdotal observation. I think the term is morphing, and it pays to understand how a person is using it if you are having a discussion with them. People can threaten to hold their breaths until the term is used "correctly" (in their minds), but that won't do much to slow the change in the meaning of the phrase if that's where it's headed.
TomCADem
(17,378 posts)...it is not just make believe political correctness and Trump saying racist and sexist things does not make Trump truthful. It makes Trump a racist and a sexist.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)There are a fair number of people who cry wolf about racism/whateverism and make legitimate complaints look stupid.
For example, per capita Jewish people are, by a factor of 2X, the most common victims of hate crimes. It's a real problem. There was not a month I went by in NYC where someone would not give me a hard shoulder and call be a "fucking Jew." In NYC! Which is probably 1/5 Jewish.
And yet, I see various self-appointed leaders of my religion decrying silly crap that sucks oxygen from legitimate complaints.
I'd like them to shut up so real issues can be resolved.
think
(11,641 posts)in an effort to inform them on the issues and the Democratic alternative to what Trump was offering.
He made sure to keep his call outs of racism focused on Trump rather than the voters.
Trump voters were then asked about Trump's racist statements and they then had to distance themselves from those things.
Bernie then asked why they voted for Trump if they disagreed with those things Trump said.
Something to consider ...
KPN
(15,585 posts)Think -- seems like they don't. This OP is just an attack on Bernie by people who seem to have a chip on their shoulder and are willing to alienate those of us who share, support and empathize with them and their social/equality issues and views. This is a zero sum game for them. It's disheartening ... and alienating.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)Is a right wing hack on Mediaite.
arithia
(455 posts)I guess it's easier to go with bashing political correctness than it is to point out the problems with our voting technology, voter suppression (both through laws that disenfranchise and through voter intimidation), fake news, the American cultural assumption that one person's ignorance is the same as another person's knowledge, racism and bigotry driven by diminished natural resources and escalating global conflict, institutionalized racism and sexism, foreign powers interfering, etc etc....
How is this for politically incorrect- if you are going to be this disingenuous, Bernie, go f*ck yourself.
You know what the problems are.
You know how to fix em.
Adopting Trump's use of dog whistles (and yes, attacking "politically correct speech" while spouting abusive sexism and racism is in fact a dog whistle) to fire up his asshole base won't fix any of these problems. Changing the meaning of "PC" to something new in order to make your case doesn't change the facts of what you are doing, either.
murielm99
(30,656 posts)We are all tired of you. You are yesterday's news.
People need to start booing him at his pathetic little public appearance thingies.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He needs to find a seat and stay his ass in it
murielm99
(30,656 posts)(other than pimping his book), he would use his influence with the following that he still may have. All those dreamy eyed political idealists and young fools who think he is a god could be mobilized into groups to protest, make calls, obstruct trumps agenda, etc.
And I don't mean that Our Revolution crap. That is just more self-serving bullshit. He should be working with he rest of us to thwart trump. He could work with a coalition to save our country.
And he does not have to be in the front ranks to do this. I'm talking about working with others. But his colleagues say he has never been any good at that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Some folks like to start fires to watch them burn.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,207 posts)swag
(26,480 posts)as I told them on Twitter.
ZoomBubba
(289 posts)... Sanders or Trump. It's amazing how similar the two are in the fact that they are masters of self promotion and building cults of personality. Plus, despite having no record of party loyalty, they've become the voices of those parties in a short time.
I'm not a fan of personality cults. You can see why on FB.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)the effects Trump's plain-speaking and lies have had on this country so far. Thats for sure what we need more of. God forbid there should be respectful political discourse, rather than the trash and bash and empty promises not even possible of fulfilling. The gutter isn't low enough...let's get in the sewer.
Generator
(7,770 posts)Trump only has a heart of hate. If Trump spoke to Americans heart, i don't want to be an American. They ARE idiots and they have just selected a fascist that is going to destroy everything. The ones that aren't idiots know what they are doing and are evil. They want to take rights from people of color, they believe America is only meant for white men. That women need to breed the white babies and stay home. You think I'm kidding? That's the Bannon crowd. I have a relative who voted Trump-the one that has the million dollar house and that's what he believes. He hates anyone that isn't a white man. Mr alt-right. That's what Conway really believes. Her obsession is getting rid of abortion.
Bernie where's the revolution? Oh yes just talk. Revolutions happen in the streets and involve flesh and bone. But he won't call anyone to the streets. He's going to appease. Bernie is clueless if he thinks this is about economics. Is Trump offending people in power now? Meeting Gates, they LOVE Trump on CNBC-this is bullshit. Is Tillerson not powerful enough? Bernie is becoming a useful idiot.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)They want to feel good again about discrimination and bigotry? They want me back in the closet or dead, woman back in the kitchen, and minorities in the back of the bus!
Fuck that shit!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Thankfully at least a few posters here are realizing this and not taking the bait.
To those that do, watch the whole town hall.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)that fiasco.
For example, why didn't Bernie correct the woman who blamed Obamacare for the governors in their states that turned down the Medicaid expansion?
He did too much commiserating and not enough explaining.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And I have no objection to anyone who wants to criticize the things that you bring up.
The point remains, however, that this article was written by a right-winger and is simply not true. It in fact deliberately misrepresents the truth.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)This is how they divide and conquer.
I stand with Bernie! I stand with Democrats. I stand with Hillary.
otohara
(24,135 posts)A generation will never trust the Democratic party unless he takes over - and if that's the case ....
You know here in Colorado we rejected ColoradoCares by a yuge margin in spite of his endorsement and four campaign stops.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,965 posts)PLEASE, just stop it
KPN
(15,585 posts)Send your message to Chris. Bernie did fine.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,615 posts)that while I had bitter disagreements with Hillary, I could not vote from someone who was as clueless on social matters as you.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Shoving his nose up Trump's rump is not going to make us Feel the Bern.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)If it confirms your biases, just pile on.
Who needs context?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Or check who wrote the article and what their agenda might be.
Or take some time to go to the actual source material and find out what was actually said.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)I wasn't able to click on the link, but the headline matched what was actually in the article.
KPN
(15,585 posts)Legends303
(481 posts)but Sanders is right on the money on this, we need to stop with morally outrage crap and address legitimate economic issues of people, not all Trump voters are racist. If we continue down this line we are going to give Trump another 4 years.
This stuff is small minded and undermining our ability to progress.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)More click-bait headlines and whipping up another round of foaming at the mouth Sanders bashing and even bashing of Sanders supporters.
agincourt
(1,996 posts)in addition to be neverending enablers of the GOP.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,815 posts)the way they think is right.
Somewhere along the way they lost sight of the fact that the whole purpose of a democracy is that people with differing views can live together peacefully and safely.
And I think there is a great deal of deep seated fear involved. I have never really understood the fear but it's there. Deep seated very low esteem.
ismnotwasm
(41,918 posts)Unfortunately.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)This is why.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)LisaM
(27,758 posts)The mansplaining "Everything Hillary Ever Has Done was Wrong" barnstorm.
riversedge
(69,713 posts)Clarke, Pence and other bigot Repugs were here last evening. Sold lots of Trump hats I hear. Ryan and Walker gave out Christmas presents to Trump--Packer shirts. I hate it when Repugs like Walker and Ryan use the Packers for their little political stunts. Everyone was lovy dovy last night. BARF!!
Paladin
(28,202 posts)Marthe48
(16,690 posts)I wish people would stop saying commie d.ump won. He has the smallest popular vote of any person going to the White House, if he actually goes. Anyone calling him a winner is exaggerating d.ump's actual position as a minority president.
He has no mandate. The only reason he gets to call himself president is that he got a larger number of votes under stinking circumstances.