The electoral voters speak and they're not out for a revolt

[demon in basement]

Source: Associated Press

By CALVIN WOODWARD and RACHEL LA CORTE
Dec. 15, 2016 3:53 AM EST

WASHINGTON (AP) — Although pestered to a fare-thee-well to abandon Donald Trump, Republican electors appear to be in no mood for an insurrection in the presidential campaign's last voting ritual. This most untraditional of elections is on course to produce a traditional outcome Monday — an Electoral College ticket to the White House for the president-elect.

Whether they like Trump or not, and some surely don't, scores of the Republicans chosen to cast votes in the state-capital meetings told AP they feel bound by history, duty, party loyalty or the law to rubber-stamp their state's results and make him president. Appeals numbering in the tens of thousands — drowning inboxes, ringing cell phones, stuffing home and office mailboxes with actual handwritten letters — have not swayed them.

The Associated Press tried to reach all 538 electors Wednesday evening and interviewed more than 330 of them, finding widespread Democratic aggravation with the electoral process but little expectation that the hustle of anti-Trump maneuvering can derail him. For that to happen, Republican-appointed electors would have to stage an unprecedented defection and Democrats would need to buck tradition, too, by peeling away from Hillary Clinton and swinging behind a consensus candidate in sufficient numbers.

Still, people going to the typically ho-hum electoral gatherings have been drawn into the rough and tumble of campaign-season politics. Republicans are being beseeched to revolt in a torrent of lobbying, centered on the argument that Clinton won the popular vote and Trump is unsuited to the presidency. Most of it is falling on deaf ears, but it has also led to some acquaintances being made across the great political divide.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ec578b86110043f59def592d1f178be1/electoral-voters-speak-and-theyre-not-out-revolt

---

I suspected as much, but to have it laid out like this is a real gutpunch.

[zonkers]

1. Even if true, I would never trust AP not to lie. All big media is complicit. Electors, vote

your conscience.

[lake loon]

4. You can't spell "crap" ...

without "ap."

[onenote]

36. Don't like the message. Shoot the messenger.

[geomon666]

2. Another institution that serves no purpose.

Tear it down.

[True_Blue]

22. Yes. They're useless if they won't stop a dangerous madman

From taking over our Country. They're suppose to be a safety net to prevent something like this from happening.

[Fast Walker 52]

3. fuck any elector who votes for Trump, and fuck anyone who ever voted for the monster

[lake loon]

6. My feelings exactly

Thank you for saying that. Pass it on.

[Fast Walker 52]

8. my pleasure

I will happily tell anyone who will listen!

[True_Blue]

23. I second that

[RKP5637]

26. K&R! Apparently their goal is to bring down the US, which will likely happen. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. Of course they won't "revolt"

That's not their obligation.

[Fast Walker 52]

9. isn't their obligation ultimately to the country and the constitution?

[christx30]

48. From their point of view, they are honoring their commitment

to the constitution and the country. They consider Hillary as big of a threat to the country as we know Trump will be. Everyone has their own point of view.

Me? I voted for Hillary one hour after early voting started in Austin, Tx. All we can really do at this point is to buckle down and fight for 2018, to get as many Dems into office as we can. Block trump at every turn.

[Javaman]

7. sooprise, sooprise, sooprise. nt

[Achilleaze]

10. They can vote for America and democracy, or...

...they can vote for Republican 'family values' role model Comrade Casino (R) and his Cabal O'Comrades (R).

History will mark them for eternity.

[FailureToCommunicate]

11. Dear Electors: please re-read...

[GusBob]

12. I knew it. There is no such thing as honour anymore. Nor bravery

nor reason. they are cowards

[heaven05]

13. trumpfuhrer is potus

the fix HAS been in. All this ladeeda. ...about electors "revolt" is false hope in the highest degree.....get ready for the next four years..... RW racists, homophobes, xenophobes, sexists are in control of every department of our government. No checks, no balances. THING OF HISTORY NOW.

[hadEnuf]

14. Then impeachment and removal from office it is.

Everything including the kitchen sink needs to be thrown at Trumpolini and his band of fascists. Fight fire with fire.

“When the enemy advances, withdraw; when he stops, harass; when he tires, strike; when he retreats, pursue.”

Hate to use a Mao quote, but in this case it fits.

[ut oh]

35. The problem then is...

Ending up with a President Pence....

[hadEnuf]

40. It's a no-win situation.

The choice is a loose-cannon idiot lunatic or just a plain old nutcase.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. People Keep Saying That

But, if you recall the Nixon resignation (and remember he resigned to avoid impeachment), Ford never had any standing either politically in DC or with as a leader with the people.

He was a toothless lion. POTUS with no clout.

Don't underestimate the impact of an impeachment (assuming success) on delegitimizing an administration.

[philosslayer]

47. Pence will have a Republican House and Senate

Ford had a Democratic House and Senate. There's quite a difference.

[hadEnuf]

49. It's the message that impeachment sends along with the psychological impact.

And the message would be that people are no longer going to tolerate their shit. It's the only thing that they understand.

It's a complete waste of time to try to appeal to these people or reason with them. That ship sailed a long time ago.

[inwiththenew]

15. They probably fear for their safety if they did

Don't want to spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulder waiting for some lunatic with an AR15 to show up at their home or business like that pizzagate guy.

[RKP5637]

27. I really think that is it. They are afraid of a Trump hit man, directly or inspired. This, is a

sick country and they know it, so they are looking for personal survival.

[jimlup]

16. Basically we are on our own...

expect no help from out of date institutions which serve no purpose and should be abolished or revised.

[RKP5637]

29. Sadly, that's it, and our institutions will be gone or in severe disarray as Trumpism sets in and

about half of the populace of this sick county will applaud it.

[s-cubed]

17. A) don't trust ap B) if you were planning to revolt

You wouldn't say so, as that would only increase the pressure, lead to death and other threats, and you would probably be replaced by a more "loyal" elector.

[kimbutgar]

25. I remember seeing many fake " news" stories on ap

I don't trust that organization.

[turbinetree]

18. The fascist republicans do not like this country

they do not like small "d" democracy, and the do not like it being a republic.

Since the time of the "revolution" they have been nothing more than lackeys for business, (they are TORIES , which means fascists republicans) why do you think they went after the colonists, they supported the expansion of the British Empire and the power, if you think otherwise, go back and look again.

And in Britain today the fascist Tories won there battle of installing hate and fear-----------that is a economic fact.

They have always been in this country for themselves to make lots of money and they had indentured servants and then they expanded it to slaves (black, Indigenous People, whites) they didn't care, they did not give a rats ass.

Britain was a fucking oligarchy back in the day, and the fascist republican party today is nothing more than TORIES of that period, and they hate that they lost a "revolution" against a bunch of misfits with help from the French.

And ever since, someway, somehow, they have and now to the present shit hole that is about to envelope this country, they have succeeded in there mission-------------to fuck everyone, and do it by a rule in the Constitution because some jerks back in the day didn't "trust" the voters to make the right decision------------------we are screwed.
WE are the only country on the planet that does not give the VOTE of the majority voters to the winner to lead a country!!!!!!!

This happy HS that some how these people are going to see some divine right way of "patriotism" to save us all from a authoritarian, fascist, serial predator, megalomaniac, narcissistic, right wing racist, bigot and a LIAR, is laughable, they don't care about the light, and somehow they will not let this go through is a bunch of BS-------------------they don't care (some do) but the fucking majority don't fucking care-----------------it is about power, and its about greed and how to move up into positions of power and trample on people that get in the way, and its you and me ( the Koch's and other dark money with the help from a corrupt U.S. Supreme Court fucked everyone and this is the end result), always has been, since day one of this founding, and if anyone thinks its otherwise-------------sorry, it is not going to happen.

If these jerks were so concerned about the "welfare" of the republic, why don't they do a "national recount" with eyeballs on the ballots, that would show patriotism and trust in the system, it is not going to happen-------------they don't care, and it is about power and some fucking agenda set up by some oligarchy brothers and other hypocrites that are pissed off, that they had to abide by some rules, to have clean water, air, land to live. They believe that they are more powerful than a government of and for the people, they have empires, look no further than Exxon Mobil, that use to be called Standard Oil---------and just for enlightenment read Private Empire by Steven Coll, or another book by him Ghost Wars, Private Empire should be placed into evidence in the confirmation hearing of Rex Tillerson, it pretty much show how there is an empire within this country that thinks that they basically are not beholden to the government to play by rules

This country had been set up that somehow and someway, we were always better, it was the unspoken word, that everything would turn out right, the institutional and economics entities would protect us and do whats right------------------really.

The first clue is to look at what this country did with the Indigenous People--------------it was and is a map on how this country operates from day one, and how they treat land, water, air, and human beings, everything was a lie.
From day one since this species has walked on this planet, it has always been survival of the fittest and to conquer the weak and in some cases destroy, and if you think differently, sorry I can't help

And in the end of 2016 the fascists made it work for them and they BS'ed there way to the top with a lot of help


So to all the readers of this rant--------------we are basically fucked. And if anyone thinks that the Ryan Ayn Rand Republicans and the Mitch McConnell fascist are not going to hurt anyone, all one has to do is go back and look at that town hall meeting that Bernie Sanders had this week and look at the show and see what "stupid" is and when he told them they were lied too before the bells went off in there heads--------------some of them finally got it, and they don't know what they are going to do, they are in a panic mode, just like everyone else, and hoping that it isn't so--------------------

[RKP5637]

30. THIS n/t

[McKim]

19. They are all over the country and have to live with what is coming

These people are prominent in public life all over the country. Take names in your local state.
When the disasters start rolling in from the Trump Regime, hold their feet to the fire in public,
At meetings, where they work, in their neighborhoods. They are responsible. Never forget and never let them forget.

[mopinko]

20. obama needs to speak and lay out what we know.

just read a long nyt article about the whole thing, and there is so much more there than has been talked about so far, and clearly more that nobody is talking about.

they have to hear the truth. many wont. but if no one tells it, no one will hear it.

[DeminPennswoods]

21. Did you expect different

In Pennsylvania the electors are all appointed by the state GOP and are essentially party hacks who will do what they're told (it's the same for Dems).

I'd bet that's the case in most other states Trump won, too.

[Fast Walker 52]

24. Dear Presidential Electors: you have ONE JOB

YOUR ONE JOB is to keep the position of most powerful person in the world out of the hands of an unqualified con-artist narcissistic sociopathic racist sexist sexual assaulting conspiracy theorist ignorant demagogue.

DON'T FUCK IT UP.

[sofa king]

31. They still don't see it coming.

All they need to do is peel off forty electors from Trump, and only ONE of them needs to cast a protest vote for Paul Ryan instead, and the Republicans will be able to steal it from everyone.

And that's only Plan A. Plan B is to simply not vote to certify the election results at all, and the very same Speaker of the House inherits the White House through continuity of government statutes.

[onenote]

37. Neither Plan A nor Plan B is remotely plausible

Trump got more votes than all of the House members combined. They aren't going to risk their own positions by denying Trump the presidency. Even if (and there is no reason to think it will happen) Trump falls below 270, there is no reasonably likely scenario where he doesn't have a plurality of the EC votes. And no one who didn't run or who didn't get more EC votes than Trump, is going to be selected President.

[sofa king]

39. It's already happening.

This entire week's media cycle has been devoted to swaying EC votes, and the number of Trump delegates who said they changed their minds jumped from one to twenty. It was the GOP itself, predictably, who told the AP that nobody else was going to flip. There is another side to that story:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-electors-lessig-232598?cmpid=sf

The electors who are considering a flip sure as hell wouldn't publicly discuss it, since the Trump campaign has already made it a practice to identify, punish, and threaten those who displease them. We do know that over fifty electors have demanded an intelligence briefing on the Russia subject.

The Russia angle is a national security issue and dangerously close to an act of war. There is no reason to publicly discuss it at this point unless the intent is to sway the results of the election.

Consider also that tonight is the night when the very worst of disclosures are to be released in order to affect events in the following week. This is a recent development in the American news cycle, which previously under-reported Friday disclosures. Now, it's when you release your Trump tapes an your fake Clinton email leaks.

So if I'm correct, this afternoon we should see the disclosure of something so big and damaging it cannot be ignored. Such a disclosure could have been made at any time, but I contend it will be made today because it is designed to kick the election to Congress.

And finally, despite your self-assured statement, let's just run down the list of contested US elections:

1800: Jefferson/Burr/Adams. No candidate had a plurality of EVs, because Burr and Jefferson tied. They remained tied for 36 ballots in Congress until Alexander Hamilton swayed the Federalists against Burr.

1824: Jackson had the plurality of electoral votes and 41% of the popular vote. Lost in Congress to JQ Adams.

1876: Tilden had 51% of the popular vote and a majority electoral vote win. But southern Republicans contrived to submit two sets of returns for three states, and eventually got Congress to award all 19 of those electoral votes to Hayes.

2000: You're still living with the results.

Edit: I keep forgetting to point out the most important thing, which is that this was the Republican plan the entire time. That's why the GOP never backed off of the fake Clinton email scandal, because the statute she reputedly violated demands that the guilty cannot hold public office. That's why McConnell demanded that the Russia disclosures be kept secret until after the election--so that they can steal it from Trump by citing the exact same statutes. That's why some of the electors are going to name Paul Ryan instead of Trump.

[onenote]

42. No, 20 Trump electors have not changed their minds

At best, 20 electors have indicated to Lessig that they're "open" to voting for someone else. And Lessig hasn't substantiated that claim in any way.

So you may think "it's happening," but you have nothing to back that up but pure speculation.

Moreover, the 50+ electors that have requested an intelligence briefing are, with the one exception of the single Trump elector who has publicly stated he's switching (and as far as I know is still alive), are all Democrats. If you think any of those Democrats have ever given a single minute's thought to voting for Trump and need to see the intelligence materials to decide whether to do so or not, I have a bridge to sell you, cheap. By the way, they're never getting that intelligence briefing, just as no Repub electors would get access to unpublished Clinton investigation files from DOJ or the FBI if they said they needed to see them in order to deliberate before casting their electoral vote. So that's definitely not evidence of anything "happening" that would result in Trump getting fewer electoral votes.

With respect to your examples:

1800: A rather bizarre choice of an example on your part. This election was held prior to the ratification of the 12th Amendment. Under the provisions of the Constitution in effect at that time, electors cast two votes, but did not designate them for a particular office. The candidate with the most EVs became president and the runner up became VP (assuming each had received a vote from the majority of the electors). In what was a break from previous elections, the "Democratic-Republican Party" fielded a ticket on which Jefferson was the presidential candidate and Burr was the VP candidate. But, not surprisingly, all the electors that cast votes for Jefferson also cast votes for Burr, leaving them tied. That threw the election to the House, which had to choose between those two candidates. The third-place finisher, from the Federalist party, wasn't eligible for consideration. The states were divided (with the Federalist states supporting Burr) and it was not until one of the Federalist representatives pushed his state over to Jefferson's side. In the end, the House picked the person that the electors had intended to be president, which sort of blows up this example as pertinent to today's situation. Indeed, given the changes in the way the presidential election process works made after the 1800 election, its not clear how anyone could think that election to be remotely relevant to today's situation. It only might be so if Trump and Pence could be considered to have tied for the presidency requiring the House to decide.

On its face, the 1824 election looks like a better example for your since the candidate with the plurality of the EVs didn't get chosen by the House. The difference however was that in 1824, the Democratic-Republican party had imploded and there were four separate tickets running for the presidency that won electoral votes (which were not decided by popular vote in all instances and were not necessarily allocated on a "winner take all" basis). Bottom line: Because four candidates got electoral votes and only three could be considered by the House, the stage was set for the fourth candidate to throw his support to the second place finisher (J Q Adams) and hand him the election over Jackson. I should add that comparisons based on who won the "popular vote" in 1824 are meaningless since 25% of the states didn't choose electors by a popular vote, including the largest state, New York, which was an Adams stronghold.

1876 also is a non-sequitur when compared to the 2016 election (or any other election in US history). While the candidate with over 50 percent of the popular vote lost, it wasn't because of faithless electors or the decision of the House to hand the election to the second place finisher. It was because there was a dispute over the results in several states; that dispute was resolved via a compromise in which Hayes (who had finished second not counting the disputed EVs) all of the disputed EVS, and a one vote victory in the EC, in return for the end of Reconstruction. Obviously, a situation that has no parallel in today's election.

Finally, there is 2000. Also a bizarre choice for you to make in support of your claim that the selection of someone other than Trump is a realistic possibility. If anything, it supports the conclusion that come hell or high water, Trump will end up as President. In 2000, like 2016, the repub candidate got fewer popular votes than the Democratic candidate but more electoral votes. The reason the repub got more electoral votes was the highly controversial decision of the SCOTUS handling Bush a win in Florida. Yet, despite the contentiousness and controversy, and despite Bush having fewer popular votes than Gore, when it came time for the electors to cast their votes, not a single republican elector, including none of the Florida electors, chose not to cast their vote for Bush. Indeed, the only "faithless" elector was one from DC, who elected to abstain rather cast her vote for Gore as a protest measure.

And finally, you should continue to forget the idea that there was some great plan to get Ryan elected by having Trump win and then take the election from him at the electoral college stage and have it handed to him. Because that's just fantasy.

Anyway, this has been fun and educational. We'll see whether "it's happening" actually happens (I wouldn't bet a nickel on it) in a few days.

[Mr. Evil]

32. The republican electors will most likely not do the right thing.

Republicans aren't happy unless they are destroying something.

[MFM008]

33. The associate press

Was in the bag for maggot since their first poll.
They all need to drop dead.

[Oneironaut]

34. I feel like the internet doesn't understand the job of electors.

It's not really their position to "vote" for a candidate. Not only is that anti-Democratic (why even have an election, then?), but there's no precedent for it. It just doesn't happen.

Just because they allow Trump to win doesn't mean that they approve of Trump or like him. An elector's job is to exercise the will of the people (yes, Hillary won the popular vote, but that's irrelevant).

Trump is going to be President. It is not the electors' place to deny him the Presidency. It was the peoples' job.

[LisaL]

41. You are the one who doesn't seem to understand what the job of electors is.

"Alexander Hamilton, for instance, wrote that the Electoral College would allow the presidency to be decided “by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation.”"

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/opinion/why-gop-electoral-college-members-can-vote-against-trump.html?_r=0

[Oneironaut]

46. That was the original intention of electors. They're pretty much a formality now.

In places where electors aren't bound by law, they aren't going to vote against their party anyways. The concept of electors voting against their party is rather pointless and far-fetched in current times (minus a few throughout the years).

Anyone who writes "The electors can vote against Trump" is technically correct (in states that allow it). It's just that they won't. It's unheard of that a large enough number of them would (or even a couple, for that matter). There's no precedent for it, and it's not going to happen.

[sarcasmo]

38. Expecting our electors to do the right thing, is like my Lions winning a meaningful game on the road

Sunday vs the Giants. Doubtful.

[Sunlei]

43. Republicans will vote for their Hitler.

[Sunlei]

44. by the way,I hate the way republicans use 'breaking news' stories to manipulate, twist our democracy

personally, nothing I can do about it except watch the slow-motion train wreck and wonder who the pile-up of republican caused wrecks, will take out first.