Donald Trump will not be allowed to address Parliament on UK state visit, Speaker says

[Recursion]

Source: The Independent

MPs broke into spontaneous applause as the Speaker said he would not permit Westminster Hall to be used

Donald Trump will be blocked from addressing Parliament on his state visit to the UK, the Speaker of the House of Commons has said.

John Bercow, the Speaker, said he was "strongly opposed" to Mr Trump speaking in the Commons and that being invited was "not an automatic right" but "an earned honour".

In a dramatic intervention cited the Commons' opposition to "racism and to sexism and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary" as his reasons.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-trump-uk-state-visit-speaker-address-parliament-a7565651.html

[nikibatts]

1. No one is happier about that than Trump. Imagine him "speaking" before Parliament.

They wouldn't allow that embarrassment.

[cstanleytech]

4. Actually Trump is probably unhappy and angry.

Why? Because its clear he suffers from extreme delusions and in the fantasy world in his mind the people are being denied the ability to show their adoration of him because of a handful of "haters".

[C Moon]

26. He probably didn't want to, until they said he couldn't.

[VWolf]

53. Bingo. n/t

[Leghorn21]

7. Agreed - he can't "speak" anywhere comfortably unless it's at a DFT

rally - BUT, the principle involved here, the unmitigated level of complete rejection by Parliament?? Oh yeah. And I mean YEAH baby YEAH!!

I'm so tickled!!

[Glamrock]

27. I get where you're coming from. His rejection by our allies is one of several keys needed to take

him down. But Jesus, man! Our closest ally breaking into cheers that they won't have to listen to him? I never thought I'd see the day. What a horrible, horrible development for our country. Even if we're able to remove him from office, the stain left by this amateur will remain for quite some time.

[MrModerate]

81. What I hear from my friends overseas . . .

Is them asking why America let ignorant rural yahoos choose a president no one wants.

I don't have a good answer.

[Glamrock]

82. The answer is Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.

Reagan did away with the fairness doctrine, opening the door to FOX news on tv and Rush Limbaugh and all of his mimics on AM radio. Clinton signed the Telecom Deregulation Act, opening the door to media consolidation. That is the #1 reason we're in the mess we are in. Basically, Reagan legalized propaganda, and Clinton facilitated the media being owned by the very few. Consequently the American electorate, by and large, is less than informed. And, democracy cannot be sustained without an informed electorate. Those are the two main reasons. Add in the internet, which has no regulations regarding truth or what can be labeled as news.

That would be my answer. Hope that helps.

[MrModerate]

84. I don't think the Fairness Doctrine had a hope of surviving the proliferation of cable channels.

But I agree that media consolidation is very dangerous.

What's scary now is not that people are uninformed so much as they are misinformed — and convinced they've seen the truth right in front of them.

[Glamrock]

85. Probably right,

but it did make a diff with a.m. radio, which speaks directly to what you said about the misinformed.

[nycbos]

10. I have watched Prime Ministers Questions.

I can only imagine.

[irisblue]

36. Me too. He would be such an embarrassment.

[calimary]

42. Welcome to DU, nikibatts!

Actually, I'd expect him to be VERY unhappy, and take it as a personal affront, and start tweeting about how horrible those Parliament people are. I'd expect him to be insulted. Just another reason to go on the attack.

[Botany]

2. Boy that is going to make Red Don mad

Last edited Thu Feb 9, 2017, 07:30 PM - Edit history (1)

[demosincebirth]

37. A chameleon.

[LiberalLovinLug]

60. When his face goes from orange to red.....look out

[randr]

3. I can't imagine the Queen granting him an audience

She has long stood for grace and decorum and to have this Vulgarian pay a visit would require a thorough disinfecting of the royal palace after he leaves.

[cstanleytech]

6. The only way to disinfect it if he did visit would be with some napalm. nt

[Recursion]

8. I normally kind of snicker at monarchists, but the guy in the House of Lords trying to stop him

from meeting the Queen was actually pretty moving, basically "her majesty's personal dignity is the dignity of all of the Commonwealth, and I will not allow a man who has shown such shocking misogyny to insult the dignity of all of the Commonwealth."

[Denzil_DC]

24. She may not be happy about it,

and she may make that known privately, but she'll do what the Foreign Office wants, if they insist.

This development makes a Trump official visit of any sort less likely anyway!

[Tanuki]

34. She's 90 years old and missed the Christmas cathedral services this year,

so she will have a good excuse for not meeting him. The Foreign Office will not push this.

[Denzil_DC]

35. We'll see. n/t

[EllieBC]

38. It would be a disaster. There is a protocol

to be followed when interacting with the monarchy and no way would the Cheeto in Chief follow it because he thinks he's better than all that. And his base of deplorables would love him being rude and refusing to follow protocol and etiquette when meeting HRM.

[onetexan]

62. That's what puzzle me

so who invited the idiot to have an audience with the queen then?

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Theresa May, the Prime Minister, did

though she tried to put the blame on a Foreign Office committee.

[Recursion]

72. The Speaker of the House of Commons is a theoretically administrative role

He has to be an MP, but he doesn't generally vote or debate (if there is a tie, the speaker resolves it, but by tradition will always vote for whichever option either extends debate or preserves current law). It's sort of closer to the Clerk or Doorkeeper of the US House than our Speaker; he's in charge of the day to day administration of the House. So while May, as chief of government, can invite Trump to the UK, the Speaker is in charge of if he gets to speak to Parliament or not.

(This is further complicated by the fact that the US President is both Chief of Government -- analogous to PM May -- and Head of State -- analogous to the Queen. So by protocol the Queen asking him is a State Visit while the PM asking him is a government meeting.)

[mdbl]

80. Vulgaria is the country Trump is from?

Who would have thought!

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. Why do I feel a tweetstorm coming on?

The Donald won't like this.

[monmouth4]

9. I remember how warmly and graciously President Obama was greeted and that wonderful and well

received speech he gave. How I miss him. Donny boy, never, ever, gonna happen for you, none of it.

[Recursion]

12. It was a great speech

I had my disagreements with Obama, but he had the "be Presidential" thing down better than anybody in history, IMO. And that is actually important.

[Botany]

20. And don't forget about how much President Obama was loved in Canada too.

[charlyvi]

44. How gracious Trudeau was in quoting our various presidents

as he welcomed President Obama to the Canadian parliament. Could you imagine Trump displaying the same graciousness by honoring Canadian statesmen, through their words, at a joint session of Congress to honor Trudeau? It would be ME ME ME continuously. To quote the ghost in Hamlet...Oh what a falling off was there! We've gone from a dignified statesman to a class clown.

[mobeau69]

11. Bercow despises drumpf. Good Call. Anyway, here's how it's done:

[monmouth4]

31. Thank you so much for this. So wonderful to hear him speechify again..n/t

[bdamomma]

47. I miss him

we need him. But then again he was right to point out in his last speech we may loose democracy.

[avebury]

49. People should start sending tRump this video

clip with the words - This is the way a true leader speaks to our allies.

[IcyPeas]

65. this is great. thanks for posting. /nt

[mobeau69]

71. One of his very best speeches.

I love seeing the utter joy and appreciation in the eyes of John Bercow and Baroness Hayman.

Obama: He came, he spoke, he conquered Westminster - The Independent

[NurseJackie]

13. Ha!! :-D

[sdfernando]

14. He is such a snowflake that he may just cancel the trip

because he is so stupid, he thinks this means he won't meet the Queen.

[dalton99a]

15. Hey, Donald:

[pnwmom]

16. What a slap in the face.

Hope he doesn't decide to drop a bomb on them.

[ailsagirl]

17. This is a splendid example of KARMA

He's got the worst karma ever-- and deservedly so

[avebury]

18. They didn't just block him due to the travel ban but because of their

regard for an independent judiciary.

Take that tRump!.

[W Mousie]

19. Talk about the cut direct! n/t

[Denzil_DC]

21. Hats off to Bercow!

His politics may not be mine on a number of issues, but he's been a pretty damn good Speaker of the House.

His standing on principle like this is an amazing turn of events.

He isn't on Twitter - beware, there's a fake unticked account - so Trump won't be able to unleash his flying monkeys on him on there at least.

[red dog 1]

22. Jolly Good Show, Mr Speaker!

K&R

[TomCADem]

23. Didn't Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage...

...defend such an invite for their racist and sexist soul mate.

[avebury]

25. President Obama (according to the introduction) is the

only President to be asked to address Parliament. That has got to burn Trump.

But you know, if Trump is going to run roughshod over all of the our allies he should not be surprised then they give him the cut direct. He better get used it.

[Denzil_DC]

29. No, Reagan and Clinton did it.

But Obama was the first US President to address both Houses (the Commons and the Lords), which may be where the confusion arises: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/may/25/head-state-addressing-uk-parliament

[mobeau69]

32. No, not in Westminster Hall n/t

[Denzil_DC]

33. That wasn't the issue.

It was " President Obama ... is the only President to be asked to address Parliament".

See the link above for clarification.

[mobeau69]

48. I see. There was no way drumph would be allowed to speak in Westminster Hall.

It is considered a rare privilege for a foreign leader to be allowed to address both houses in Westminster Hall. Since the Second World War the only leaders to have done so have been French president Charles de Gaulle in 1960, South African president Nelson Mandela in 1996, Pope Benedict XVI in 2010, U.S. president Barack Obama in 2011 and Burmese opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi in 2012.[132][133][134] President Obama was the first ever US President to be allowed to use the Hall for an address to Parliament[135] and Aung San Suu Kyi was the first non-head of state to be given the accolade of addressing MPs and peers in Westminster Hall.

[Denzil_DC]

58. Theresa May is absolutely desperate to nullify Nigel Farage's influence

on Trump. That's why the unprecedentedly early (and possibly not even officially cleared) flattering offer of a state visit was made by her in the first place.

She's a weak prime minister in a very weak position, and currently rattled by turns of events. I can't imagine an inducement she wouldn't offer if she thought it would help bail her out in terms of future trade deals at the moment.

There's at least two ways you could look at this: (a) Bercow (elected as an MP, but as Speaker able by convention to stand unopposed in his seat, and supposed to serve the House beyond the demands of party politics - the Speaker gets voted in by the House at the opening of each Parliament, but he has cross-party support, probably as long as he wants the job) could have cooked this up with May's approval to give her cover for the invite being canceled or modified; (b) it's a genuine, principled stand by Bercow (quite possible on his past form), which is meeting with wide approval, as nobody in Parliament (let alone the country) beyond the terminally deranged wants to be subjected to Trump rambling on about his current obsessions and using the esteemed platform to potentially inflame things further.

From other coverage, it sounds like Trump, despite his vast ego, wasn't wild about the prospect of having to address Parliament anyway (maybe even he realizes what a ridiculous spectacle he'd make of himself in those surroundings, not least the stark contrast with Obama), so it may not be such a biggie, but we'll see how hot Twitter gets, I guess.

There are conceivably other venues that could be used for such an address that Bercow would have no say in (he's acknowledged this himself), but yes, Westminster Hall is hallowed ground as far as Parliament's concerned.

[TygrBright]

28. No address to Parliament, no Royal audience.

Maybe he can pick up some gifts for family & staff at Harrods to make the trip worthwhile.

Or do a little tour of the Tower of London. Lots of interesting exhibits there about what happens when the ruling classes squabble like pre-schoolers over who gets the power and swag.

helpfully,
Bright

[mobeau69]

52. The article is messed up. No wonder there are conflicting posts here.

drumpf can still speak to both houses of Parliament (to date) BUT he cannot speak to them in Westminster Hall. Bercow has control (1/3) of the Hall. The other questions, as he noted in the little video, are "above my pay grade". I think he was being a little satirical. Westminster Hall is a sacred place to the UK. It be like having Charlie Manson give a talk in the Sistine Chapel.

[mobeau69]

57. I reread it again and it's still not clear!

the video of Bercow does not jibe with the article. Maybe it was decided no speech at all after the decision was made about W Hall. Very screwed up article IMO.

[avebury]

76. I would be shocked if Trump was invited to speak to the members of

Parliament (even if it is not in White Hall). He is too much of a loose canon and so much of what Trump rants and raves is toally contrary to the beliefs of the British. On the other hand, there is no doubt that he would end up humiliating himself.

If it were not for Brexit, May would not be kowtowing to him. She is between a rock and a hard place.

It will be interesting to see how Trump is treated at any group meetings (G8 and so on). I don't think that anybody will take him very seriously. I think that all the really serious discussions will take place when he is not around. He may very will find himself left out in the cold.

[MontanaMama]

77. Drum of can't speak in complete sentences!

He won't be invited anywhere for anything...unless there's a subpoena involved.

These words to God's ears.

[edbermac]

30. Bugger off Donald

[manicraven]

39. Awesome!

[spooky3]

40. Thank you, Mr. Bercow.

[DinahMoeHum]

41. Hear, hear!

For good measure, Her Majesty should give him a piece of her mind, preferably in public.

[maddiemom]

43. What a relief!

I was really getting concerned during the election when Trump kept asserting that the rest of the world no longer respects us. It's good to see that is now changing....oh, wait... Remember when it really wasn't safe for Dubya and Cheney to travel to other countries? When will Republican voters begin to get a clue as to how most of the world sees their policies? For now it looks as if we still have Russia.

[rurallib]

45. Well, Donnie, there is always Russia

Vladie will make sure you canspeak in front of their parliament

[bdamomma]

46. oh oh another ally he is going to piss off.

tRump has to go.

[Javaman]

50. knowing the orange menace, he'll probably ask if he can try on one of the crowns.

he is the very definition of "the ugly american".

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

68. The Ugly American reference made me wonder about the origin of the phrase.

Looking into that, led me to, among others, these two tidbits:

Donald Trump: The Ugly American

That evening in May 1993, Vanity Fair had two tables and we filled them with the likes of Christopher Hitchens, Bob Shrum, Barry Diller and Diane von Furstenberg, Peggy Noonan, Tipper Gore, and Vendela Kirsebom, a Swedish model who professionally went by her first name and who was then at or near the top of the catwalk heap. I sat Trump beside Vendela, thinking that she would get a kick out of him. This was not the case. After 45 minutes she came over to my table, almost in tears, and pleaded with me to move her. It seems that Trump had spent his entire time with her assaying the “tits” and legs of the other female guests and asking how they measured up to those of other women, including his wife. “He is,” she told me, in words that seemed familiar, “the most vulgar man I have ever met.”

At one point we sent checks for $1.11 out to 58 of the “well-known” and “well-heeled” to see who would take the time to endorse and deposit the checks from a firm we called the National Refund Clearinghouse. The ones who deposited the $1.11 checks were sent 64-cent checks, and the ones who deposited those were sent checks for 13 cents. This being in the days before electronic deposits and such, the exercise took the better part of a year. At the end, only two 13-cent checks were signed—and we couldn’t believe our good fortune. One was signed by arms trader Adnan Khashoggi. The other was deposited by Donald Trump.

There Are 6 Types of 'Ugly American'—and Donald Trump Is All of Them

It is tempting to proclaim that Trump is very familiar to us because he embodies the worst things about Americans. However, these traits are apparent across the world.

Trump therefore is not merely an “ugly American” but is an amplification of commonplace cultural trends. Those that Trump exemplifies, such as narcissism, self-centredness, gnat-like attention spans, obsessive self-regard, preoccupation with the number of followers one has and a lack of interest in listening to others, are trends that are easy to pass off as particularly “American”.

But if we are honest, this behaviour is all around us. To prevent the next Trump - and there will be more - requires challenging the sources of selfishness in much of modern culture that are everywhere and seemingly on the rise.

Yeah, but let's start with him, as he's the poster boy.

[Javaman]

74. There is also this..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_American

excellent book.

It should be required reading by every single American.

[tazkcmo]

51. That privlidge is reserved.

President Bannon will be given unlimited time to address the body.

[Paladin]

54. Outstanding! Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (nt)

[Motley13]

55. They didn't want to hear about his Apprentice ratings

[dchill]

56. Too bad. He would have done an AMAZING JOB!!!

Plus, he would have sold about 1.5 million Trump Steaks! Without using all 77 words in his vocabulary.

[Fritz Walter]

59. Simply put: He is NOT the leader of the free world. Never was. Never will be.

That would be Angela Merkel now, and I'd like to think that she's welcome there any time.

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. She addressed the British Parliament 3 years ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/27/parliament-angela-merkel-europe-germany

which seems to have gone well.

[Big_K]

64. Okay, what's the war order now?

1. Australia - damn their president
2. Mexico - bad hombres
3. England, err, Britain, err, United Kingdom - I'll go to Westminster Cathedral instead. Just to walk on all those dead guys.
4. Irak? or is it I-ran? "Steve, which a-rab country you want me to invade?"
5. China - cause Steve "the grim reaper" Bannon says so.

[Onyrleft]

66. How long will it take Cheeto Benito's Twitter puppets to start a boycott...

of George Clinton and Bootsy Collins albums.

[orangecrush]

67. Hey, Trump...

[joanbarnes]

69. Very embarrassing for a normal politician, but not Trump.

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. Steve Bell:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2017/feb/06/steve-bell-on-john-bercow-and-donald-trump-cartoon

(direct link to image doesn't work, so you'll need to click)

[Wabbajack_]

73. May will let him if he actually wants to

[Thor_MN]

75. They would eat him alive...

Can you imagine *45 being jeered by Parliament? He'd blow an aneurysm, unless they were cheering for him... He has to bring a cheerleader squad with him...

[Sunlei]

78. UK shouldn't let him in, he'll help putin destablise,any relationship left with putins hated EU.

[moondust]

79. Twitty McTwitface ain't gonna like that.

Last edited Tue Feb 7, 2017, 06:49 AM - Edit history (1)

[Puzzler]

83. This is just the beginning...

... Trump is "toast" in the UK. Good!

-P