Paul Ryan: Democrats Want To Go Down 'Socialized Medicine Path'

[DonViejo]

Source: Talking Points Memo



By MATT SHUHAM Published FEBRUARY 16, 2017, 12:26 PM EDT

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) said Thursday that congressional Republicans weren’t interested in working with Democrats on a replacement for Obamacare because the opposition party “want to go down the socialized medicine path.”

During his weekly press briefing Thursday, Ryan was asked about congressional Republicans’ decision to “repeal and replace” the Affordable Care Act, rather than work with Democrats to change the current law. Was it possible, the New York Times’ Jennifer Steinhauer asked, to pass a replacement without Democratic support? And did Ryan wish he had more Democratic support?

“We would love to have support from the other side," Ryan began in response. "But they've made it really clear to us that they're not interested in doing that. I think, Jennifer, what the Democrats, just taking them at their word, they want to go down the socialized medicine path, they want to go down the government-run health care path. They want what they call the public option, which is to basically have no options but a government-run plan.”

Despite dozens of House votes to repeal Obamacare – and Donald Trump's campaign promise to do away with the law – Congress has stalled on how to go about dismantling President Obama's signature legislative achievement. The slow pace has rankled some conservative lawmakers and activists.

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/paul-ryan-democrats-want-socialized-medicine

[MrScorpio]

1. He says "Socialized Medicine" like it's a bad thing nt

[aggiesal]

31. We already have that ...

It's called the VA system.

Ask any veteran if they would give up their VA benefits?

[MrScorpio]

40. This vet says "no." nt

[aggiesal]

44. Then follow that up with ...

Why do Vets continue to vote in Republicans?

I agree, that they always say "No"

[geomon666]

2. Yes

Yes we do

[apnu]

21. +1!

[Hortensis]

34. He's just tipping his hand--REPEAL, without replacing.

But what's "need"? Ryan's an extremist who's 100% committed to a more vigorous, healthier, and productive America, and in his view the last thing we need is socialized medicine.

In his America, people who aren't "superior" enough to accumulate the means to pay for their own modern healthcare will tend to die off soon after they stop being productive--instead of accumulating as we are now. In Ryan's view, ordinary workers aren't worth more than very basic pay, and retired ones are worth less than their own spit, a worthless burden on everyone else.

Note that he and those like him want to get rid of ALL social programs, including Social Security. Lose your life savings in economic downturns? Hmmm. I actually don't know how he feels about large numbers of elderly people living under bushes and begging on the streets, if he'd think they even had those rights.

[starshine00]

36. he's evil alright

and those standards don't even apply to the american work force anymore with so much of it being outsourced and replaced with robotics. It is staggering to think how 'un-American' his philosophy is, that is just utilitarianism at best...so following that line of thinking there is no reason whatsoever for medicare, medicaid, disability, social security or any other social safety nets. His philosophy sounds like something you'd find in the middle east, if that is his utopia, he can go there.

[Hortensis]

47. True libertarian personality lacks altruism toward

others and elevates one principle above all -- personal freedom. From what I've read, though more research needs to be done, perhaps 13% or so of all people are wired this way, an explanation of why it's so un-American. Most just can't buy in. In fact, most so-called "libertarians" are just conservatives and sometimes bent more liberal, both of whom are typically altruistic toward others. I strongly suspect Ryan is the real thing though. He was pushing creepy Ayn Rand at others in middle age.

But think of it a little bit from their way. The currently epidemic kidney disease means dialysis centers springing up in strip malls all over town--filled with sick people sitting around for hours every week hooked to machines. And then there's the increasingly aging population, most of whom today cannot meet the needs of an unexpectedly extended lifespan completely on their own. Especially, the vast majority of people with a significant medical condition cannot pay today's medical costs, so EVERYONE in society is supposed to have their freedom vastly curtailed and large amounts of the money they earn taken away from them to care for this giant sick burden that is dragging down society.

Not being libertarian, that sick image doesn't come to burden me. I like all the blessings we're creating for ourselves individually by working together. And we are working on decreasing this very real burden on society by researching causes and encouraging good health, not by killing it off.

And old people are not worthless, they're people who won't have any personal freedom at all when they're dead. I'm like all those who see a whole new period of life that's opened up after raising children and after most of the working years when people have new freedom to pursue wonderful choices. Middle age is extended thanks to medicine and taking at least reasonable care of our bodies, and the elder years come along later and are for many also healthier and full of potential--like getting to watch our grandchildren and then their children grow up and be part of their lives.

Itm, it's only because of the current vast concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few, a few of whom resent anything that takes it away again, that we're having to argue about who should have the right to live. We'll win this one again, though. There are over 300 million of us in this country alone.

[starshine00]

50. the epidemic of kidney disease is largely due to the food industry

This is the monster the free market, anti-regulation crowd created. And the cherry on top of the sunday is having those same people either buy private health insurance or having them pay out of pocket (or just die). Anything as long at it lines someone's pockets and nothing that comes from the federal government that taxes us and pays their salaries. They are sick and I call them sociopaths not libertarians.

[Hortensis]

53. The food industry has culpability, but don't you think

people have some (like most!) responsibility for their own lifestyles? So much illness is created by unhealthy habits, very much including the diabetes and hypertension that cause by far most kidney disease. Hypertension can often be treated by just going out for a daily walk. I'm packing some extra pounds and don't get enough exercise myself, and it's all on me. No one has ever forced me to bring home Popeye's Spicy Chicken.

Btw, remember the outrage when Michelle Obama suggested people feed their children salad? Trump's reversing, or plans to, the federal requirements for school lunch factories to provide healthy food.

[starshine00]

55. No I don't.

There is much evidence out there to suggest that sugar is an addictive substance that effects the brain the same way cocaine does, which is to say, holy fuck. Cocaine takes control of the limbic system and overrides basic survival instincs in humans like the Maslow hierarchy of needs and becomes number one at all times...this is why lab animals do cocaine until they die. PET scans are showing that cocaine and sugar effect the brain in identical ways, giving the user a high that leads to craving and obsessive/compulsive behavior (addiction). This is why everything from toothpaste to OTC drugs are spiked with it. This is why there is such an epidemic of diabetes, the end result of which is kidney failure and the need for dialysis. Implying that these people are irresponsible and immature and don't "control" themselves properly does nothing in the way of finding solutions. I am interested in cause and effect and finding solutions, not moral judgements on other human beings whose dollar has been courted by the food industry since they could crawl (evidenced by the arrangement of foods on grocery store shelves where the sugar cereals are placed where children can see them best and how most advertising for junk food is aimed at children and young people with cartoonish characters, etc.)

Furthermore eating is not well understood to be a coping mechanism and in many people including myself who are victims of traumatic abuse in early childhood it becomes THE addiction that the user uses to cope with the abuse and violence in their environment because there simply are no other substances available. Later, many people transfer to drugs and alcohol but in cases of morbid obesity that is lifelong (I am not that bad but I have struggled with weight since high school though I ate sweets compulsively my whole life, it was only later that my metabolism slowed and I gained weight) I always suspect sexual or physical abuse.

[Hortensis]

57. Yes. But if people follow their doctors' orders, many of the

problems are reversed. Just go away. Maybe someone dies at 83 instead of 103, but the 83 instead of dying in their 60s after years of misery punctuated by amputations can be their doing.

I have an autoimmune disorder that is almost certainly triggered by...who knows what? Nature, the man-made chemicals and particulate matter we're all awash in, various combos? Whatever, some rather drastic lifestyle changes have made virtually all of the scary symptoms go away, or at least much milder. Will it progress and how fast? I don't know--but I'll make more changes as needed. I may not be captain of my destiny, but I'm certainly at the wheel anyway.

You can see, I'm exactly not a fan of the "helpless, feckless, victim" notion of the typical person. Most people actually agree that all normal adults have a duty to take sensible and responsible care of themselves--and others. Always, before we start blaming "them," it's important to take a good, long look at ourselves.

Probably the largest difference today between liberals and conservatives is in who we think cannot take proper care of themselves, what we owe them, and how to do it.

Certainly Donald Trump would be unable to hold a steady job if he weren't insulated from consequences of his actions by his money. And if the women he married so they'd support and at the same time kow-tow to his greatness all walked, and no one else came along as his looks and charm faded, and he collapsed (as he likely did in the '90s), does society support him in a little SRO (a single room occupancy in one of those old brick hotels you drive by on freeways, the old motels nobody would ever stop at?), or do we let him find himself a piece of cardboard and a bush for shelter?

[starshine00]

58. interesting.

Having experienced addiction in several different ways over the course of my life, I don't believe that people whose lives are destroyed by it are just wimps who can't cope. Don't care for that philosophy at all. Don't care for placing judgement on people whose addiction to certain foods which tv and marketing have seduced all of us with for our entire lives has led them to the tragic outcome of kidney failure and dialysis. The only proper response, in my book, to that kind of dire outcome is "there but for the grace of God go I". I can't imagine walking into a dialysis center and announcing 'wow you bunch of stupid fucks'. Heartless. I get that you congratulate yourself for making lifestyle changes, I gave up alcohol very early in adult life after some very close calls while driving drunk. Every time I hear of someone who didn't give it up in time and killed someone, I am only grateful and again, there but for the grace of God go I. I DO NOT DARE judge these people because tomorrow that could be me. But this perspective comes from first hand experience with addiction, which I understand not everyone has.

But again, as I said, sugar is currently being proven to be an incredibly strong addictive substance, and the science is behind this, placing it on the same level as cocaine addiction in terms of the craving it causes. I've never fought a cocaine addiction but I know many people who have and some of them are dead. Obesity and food addiction are just longer, slower, killers. I guess all of it depends on whether or not you believe addiction is real or a fable. Having experienced it, I understand it as a reality. And there certainly is no use to discuss it with people who lack that understanding.

[Hortensis]

60. Well, I did speak of "normal adults having a duty to

take sensible and responsible care of themselves--and others." Certainly we do know that some people are more vulnerable to addiction than others, and for what it's worth I'd always want to spend my own hard-earned money to support those who cannot take care of themselves in an SRO.

Conservatives like to imagine that a nonworking person having a room with food, shelter, microwave, TV, recliner, etc., equates to some kind of luxury and thus cheating of taxpayers. Only if the person living that stunted existence really can't take care of himself. But if he's so capable, what on earth is he doing there? They understand that a person missing both hands and feet may be handicapped in finding an office job, but they don't understand, for instance, that someone with a Trump-like personality disorder who congratulates himself on being a "winner" because he gets to swig beer in an SRO all day instead of working can be just as disabled.

And, of course, most people in trouble only need help for a while. That's why we call it a safety net.

[cstanleytech]

62. I suspect his ideal dream for America is one in which we line up the old, the disabled, the poor

and the homeless and send them to special "camps".

[tblue37]

64. Not utilitarianism, but libertarianism. nt

[kenfrequed]

3. I wish

We need socialized medicine.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Keep your gubmint hands off my Medicare!

fear, Fear, FEAR, FEAR!

That's all Republicons have to sell.

[dhill926]

5. what is this.....1960?

how about doing what's best for the people of America. Oh that's right....you're a fucking piece of shit republican....

[Scarsdale]

6. YES!

My relatives in the UK would not trade their coverage for what passes here in the US. NEVER. Ryan needs to get on board with what REAL people want, not his rich friends. I would LOVE to see this arrogant prick go the same way his buddy Eric Cantor was disposed of, voted out.

[Astraea]

7. As opposed to what?

The free market failure we've been living with all this time?

[Zoider]

23. It's not a failure for the insurance and pharmaceutical companies

because it's not a "free market" unless you're willing to die rather than pay what they demand.

[mnhtnbb]

8. Damn straight, Ryan. Get rid of insurance companies

and provide the kind of quality care at lower cost that all the other countries in the world do which
have socialized medicine.

Fu*k you, Ryan and your money grubbing Republican a$$hole buddies.

[benld74]

9. Ryan is an idiot nt

[groovedaddy]

10. This Democrat certainly does! n/t

[ismnotwasm]

11. Well yes actually

His point?

[BumRushDaShow]

12. Here is his path

[Aristus]

13. You mean we want the same health insurance that you get, Paul?

Why, yes. Yes we do.

Asshole...

[kenfrequed]

17. I don't want insurance companies at all.

I want socialized medicine.

[Scarsdale]

33. Forgot

This Eddie Munster lookalike has forgotten where he came from. His father died when he was a teen. His mother got SS for him, plus benefits to help him through college. LOOK what THAT did!! Now he wants to punish everyone. He wants to destroy all safety nets for regular people. Arrogant ass.

[FairWinds]

14. I'll walk to my "socialized" medical appointment . .

on our "socialized" sidewalks, past our "socialized" library,
over our "socialized" water lines and sewers, protected by
our "socialized" police and fire departments, who were
educated at our "socialized" schools.

[TexasBushwhacker]

29. EXACTLY

Furthermore, it's not like socialized medicine is some bizarre experiment never tried before. We already have it; Medicare and Medicaid. Of course Ryan wants to get rid of those too.

[aggiesal]

35. Actually Medicare and Medicaid are

single payer (by the federal gov't).

The only socialized medicine we have in this country is the VA System.
Everything in the VA is owned by us (Federal Gov't).

Ask any veteran if they'd give up their VA Benefits, and then ask why they keep
voting in Republicans?

The Republicans are going to get rid of the VA system we know it.

[former9thward]

63. I guess you have been under a rock the last few years.

The VA system has been exposed as a terrible system. Long delays in appointments and vets dying waiting to see doctors. Investigations after investigations. Yeah, a lot of vets want out. Sorry you have ignored reality.

[aggiesal]

66. I haven't been under a rock ...

I know about the problems that the VA has been experiencing,
but if the Vets want out, why don't they get out?
But, they don't.

Yes it needs fixing, and I think if the Republican continue to strip money
out of the system it will get worse.

[sinkingfeeling]

15. Damn right.

[johnnyrocket]

16. Yes, socialized medicine...sounds good. My question is: what do Republicans want to do??

They never say...but it seems like they just want everyone everywhere to pay for healthcare out of pocket with cash. And maybe get some tax breaks if you make tons of money.

[gopiscrap]

18. I sure do

I had an illness when I was a baby and lived in Germany was in ICU for over 4 months and in the hospital for another 2 bill came to 382 dollars fast forward to US I was living in US and had cancer and lost every thing I had

[politicat]

19. Why yes! For the same reason we do socialized water systems and electrical systems.

There are just some things that are more efficiently delivered as a public service than as a capitalist mind-fuck.

Isn't Paul Ryan supposed to be the smart one? It took him this long to figure this out?

[Kimchijeon]

20. Yes, so what. Universal healthcare.

It's a human right. Of course we want that.
However, we have to struggle and scrape to maintain what petty scraps we have obtained.
And we won't give up so easily.

[Lonestarblue]

22. Yes, yes, I want socialized medicine!

I want a single-payer healthcare system that recognizes that access to affordable healthcare is a right, not a privilege that government representatives can bestow on you if they like you. Along with clean water and the air we breathe, good healthcare is an inalienable right in our pursuit of happiness. A single-payer system would save a huge amount of money just in administrative costs, though it wouldn't reward Ryan's backers with obscene amounts of money. Thus his real objection and his labeling it as socialism. If you don't like something, just say it's socialism or communism and most of the low-information voters will get right on board.

[hollowdweller]

24. I say offer medicaid buy in in states with only 1 insurer on the exchange.

Competition will lower the cost but the gov't is going to have to be the one providing the competition.

[hibbing]

25. Is heath care a right?

They don't believe it is. Saw some stupid member of Congress say if health care is a right, why not housing, food and other things.

All the while wearing their proclaimed Christianity like a badge, it's disgusting.


Peace

[More_Cowbell]

26. Yes, we do

It's crazy that employers are even involved in health care.

[Historic NY]

27. I'm reading a letter to the editor....

Obamacare is bad for senior citizens....the writer complains that he lost his free retirement health care because of a union contract. He goes on saying it began costing 100, 200, 250, now some 406 a month for his policy. He say around 7424 a yr for him and his wife that are both on Medicare. He blames Obamacare because he has to subsidy others who pay 39.00 a month for the ACA.

Why the hell would he be paying for the old insurance policy on top of his Medicare is beyond me. Wouldn't one of the Medicare supplementals be more reasonable

[Ray Bruns]

48. Because the writer is either lying or doesn't know what he is talking about.

I see a lot of these people complaining or spouting off memes from fux news screaming how their premiums are skyrocketing. But when you ask to see their old policy, it some crap catastrophic plan with a 25k lifetime cap. Whenever these people complain, just start asking questions. Sooner or later you will get to the truth.

[LiberalLovinLug]

28. Do even conservative Americans want a cheaper system where everyone is covered?

I'll be they do. In Canada and the UK, universal medical care is successful because it also has broad support of all political segments other than the extreme right.

If it is explained to the public in a calm rational informative manner. Something the MSM was appalling at during the public debate on the issue when the ACA was being debated. Michael Moore did the MSM's job for them in exploring just what other countries had done successfully in Sicko. Unfortunately that movie was not required watching for most of the nation.

There are things that would appeal to conservatives, like the fact that US based companies face an obstacle when bidding on international jobs. And that is that most have some kind of employment medical insurance plan that they have to budget for. While in every other western democracy based company its the broader population that pays for medical insurance, not companies, making their bids lower, and more more profitable.

[jetcat]

70. Competitive business advantages (both international and domestic) are a pretty strong,

purely economic rationale for single-payer, and a great many conservatives well-recognize these advantages. But conservative arguments in general for single-payer get drowned out in the din of team-politics. It's a shame.

[muntrv]

30. Socialized medicine? Like the health insurance Paul Ryan has?

[vlyons]

32. Damn straight we want socialized healthcare

Get the god-damned for-profit insurance companies out of healthcare

[dubyadiprecession]

54. It's sounds like you don't want the middleman in there "sopping up all that gravy money".

I couldn't agree with you more.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

37. And?

What is your point?

[lark]

38. Dems should listen to him.

He's telling them that he is going to cut healthcare because he doesn't want government to pay and is willing for people to die for that principle - as long as it's not the rich, the rest are on their own. Dems should not cooperate with him for 1 second on the awful bill he's pushing. They need to put up amendments by the ton, vote no on every single thing, and make the Repugs own the freaking disaster they are about to create. No bipartisanship in destroying the healthcare system in this country!!!!!

[SharonClark]

39. Better than the repugs and their death panels.

[Vinca]

41. Yes, we do. We want to be as healthy as people in countries that provide socialized medicine.

We'd like to live as long as they do, too.

[NCjack]

42. Ryan is going to have a significant emotional event when

he gets the comparative cost numbers for TrumpFuck and ObamaCare.

[Nitram]

43. You're damn right we do! Single payer!

[paleotn]

45. Well? Yea!!!

...ya freaking, Eddie Munster look alike.

[itcfish]

46. So?

Nothing wrong with that

[wishstar]

49. Repubs believe health care isn't a right but should be a hugely profitable industry

Ayn Rand acolyte Repubs like Ryan will only be satisfied if ACA is replaced with Health Savings Accounts and Tax Credit plans where everyone is on their own to figure how to purchase health care from insurance companies who can freely operate with little regulation to make huge profits.

[Blue Owl]

51. Munster Bawl

Shut up, Eddie!

[JenniferJuniper]

52. Correct! Someone give Eddie Munster a cookie.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

56. HMMM - this is also SETTING US UP TO take down MEDICARE AS WELL - recall his statements of last Nov.

when he said that Medicare is or will be on the table along with ACA??? He claimed that ACA has links to how Medicare is managed so taking down the former will also put the latter up for "phasing out" as well ("phasing out"= repub words).

Its hard to keep up with all this but LOOK, we gotta start sounding the alarms NOW to have a prayer of saving SS/Medicare.

[IronLionZion]

59. People like Medicare

so yeah, let's go down that path and see how it works out.

[smirkymonkey]

61. God I hate that stupid, evil fuck.

As long as he has his healthcare, he's fine with throwing other people off the cliff. He just enrages me beyond belief. I can't even say what I would like to have happen to him.

[Orsino]

65. BECAUSE FOR-PROFIT INSURERS WON'T COVER EVERYONE.

We've settled this. Shouldn't you thinking about an ACA replacement, Mr. Speaker?

[Mz Pip]

67. Re frame it.

We want not for profit healthcare.

[Penn Voter]

68. You mean such as Medicare and the VA? n/t

[dalton99a]

69. Who is paying for his health insurance?

[riversedge]

71. I despise him more each day!