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turbinetree

(24,701 posts)
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:05 PM Jul 2017

Live coverage: Senate heads for dramatic healthcare repeal vote

Source: The Hill

The Hill will be providing live updates as Senate Republicans seek to start their ObamaCare repeal effort on Tuesday.

Protestors chant from Senate gallery

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/343627-live-coverage-senate-heads-for-dramatic-healthcare-repeal-vote



The country now has death panels, McCain and Johnson just fucked 22 million people and another ten million


26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Live coverage: Senate heads for dramatic healthcare repeal vote (Original Post) turbinetree Jul 2017 OP
Pence about to break the 50-50 tie. nt BumRushDaShow Jul 2017 #1
Fuck You McConnell and every fucking republican that voted for this god damn piece of shit turbinetree Jul 2017 #2
Done. Pence voted to break tie. Motion to proceed approved. BumRushDaShow Jul 2017 #3
ITS time to take to the fucking streets turbinetree Jul 2017 #5
Unfortunately people have "been in the streets" since just after the election BumRushDaShow Jul 2017 #6
I agree we need to fuck these racist asshole out of office turbinetree Jul 2017 #12
"Inalienable rights" are natural rights. Igel Jul 2017 #21
Bye orangecrush Jul 2017 #23
If these murderers reduce ACA in anyway, take anything away, Eliot Rosewater Jul 2017 #26
OK, so we didn't stop them here. We'll have to do it someplace else. CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2017 #4
There are no words to describe this turbinetree Jul 2017 #13
This is just a motion to proceed. They have to present the actual bill, "debate", & then vote again Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #19
Bravo, well done... Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #7
If Obama was White, they wouldn't even be talking about this Doug the Dem Jul 2017 #8
Hillary is white and they want to lock her up IronLionZion Jul 2017 #10
Brain cancer or not, mccain has always been a sycophant. nt Javaman Jul 2017 #11
They want their tax-break-for-billionaires at the expense of the poor, regardless FiveGoodMen Jul 2017 #22
McCain's still sore that he lost to President Obama. Owl Jul 2017 #9
So that's it, then. Millions just lost their health care because, Obama. Still In Wisconsin Jul 2017 #14
McConnell tried to dispense with reading the first amendment. forgotmylogin Jul 2017 #15
They will own it and wear it as a badge of courage.......... Old Vet Jul 2017 #16
Yup. old guy Jul 2017 #17
This is just a motion to proceed. Fact. Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #20
I'm with you hibbing Jul 2017 #24
This is still a proceedural vote..Perhaps the vote on the bill itself will fail. Stuart G Jul 2017 #18
CAPITO is ? Peach4u2 Jul 2017 #25

turbinetree

(24,701 posts)
2. Fuck You McConnell and every fucking republican that voted for this god damn piece of shit
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:09 PM
Jul 2017

FUCK YOU

I have a fucking right to health care, you mother fuckers now own this shit



turbinetree

(24,701 posts)
5. ITS time to take to the fucking streets
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:11 PM
Jul 2017


We are at fucking war for inalienable rights , and these motherfuckers want to kill me and my family


:Gr: :Gr:

BumRushDaShow

(128,979 posts)
6. Unfortunately people have "been in the streets" since just after the election
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:13 PM
Jul 2017

There needs to be people "in the voting booths" EVERY fucking election (including this year) and not just every 4 years.

Igel

(35,309 posts)
21. "Inalienable rights" are natural rights.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 04:29 PM
Jul 2017

They're things that don't have to be provided. At best, a government can unjustly limit them.

Free speech is one. It's something you have; it can be limited, rightly or wrongly. By yourself, with nobody else around, you have this right.

Freedom of religion is the same. Nobody grants it to you--you enjoy it by virtue of having a mind. It can be infringed on. It can be protected. But if you're by yourself, you have it. It's a bit trickier when you require props for your religion.

Property, legally acquired, is another. Nobody bestows upon you the right to property. But there is no natural right to receive property--just to acquire it and, once possessed, retain possession. Nobody has to give you property, nobody has to be willing to trade. Forced deals are not part of the right.

In other words, natural rights impose a burden of tolerance on others. That is the obligation imposed on them. Those natural rights that require the participation of others are merely rights to access and opportunity. If you have right to happiness, it doesn't follow others must provide it. You merely have the right to pursue it--as with property. The right to free association does not require that anybody provide you with associates if you're unliked by all. The right to freedom of the press merely requires that the press, if you have one, be untaxed and not unduly limited--there's no requirement that anybody give you a press.

Health care as an inalienable or natural right misses this in a few ways. If you're by yourself, what health care do you have a natural right to? You have the right to take care of yourself given what you have. There's your inalienable right. Seems rather trivial, since freedom to act was so basic it didn't make the top 10, and what you use is going to be your property and that right's also there.

What's left to the right to health care isn't an inalienable right. It's not something you automatically have by virtue of being a human and not having limits thrust upon you. It's like the right to work. If you have a right to work, it means somebody has the obligation to hire and pay you. At that point government--or a warlord--is there interfering with the natural right to free association and property.

The only "positive" right in the Bill of Rights is still negative: It's due process, which means that government will not infringe on your natural rights. It's still a limitation on government, just worded backwards. It's come to be interpreted, a over a century later, as de facto implying that help be provided. But that's already screwing with a crucial part of the definition. It shifts rights from what you enjoy as a human to what you get by virtue of having power. Locke and Hobbes would have a few choice words, as would most of the Founding Fathers.

Health care may be a positive right, one bestowed by government. But as a natural or inalienable right? It's not something you naturally have; you don't inalienably possess it. This right requires an obligation on the part of others to do something for you: If nobody's willing to pay, then governmental force makes them pay; if nobody's willing to render services, then either they have to be bribed through higher pay or they have to be conscripted. I've heard it argued that sex and reproduction are also inalienable rights; if we treat them like some do jobs or health care then we'll have conscripted prostitutes and mandatory womb service provided to men who otherwise can't find a mate. The parallel is ludicrous. But I'm sure there are some who would think this a great idea.

It really is the difference between "kill" and "let die." One's causative, with death meted out. The other is without regard to external agency.

There's the view, not entirely contemporary, that all rights are social constructs, and you have no more a right to life and liberty than you do to whatever else the government or "society" deigns to grant you. This seems like a great idea, because then we can declare anything to be a right. Even required sex with undesirable males (or females). One has to be very picky to avoid sanctioning totalitarianism. If they deprive you of a right, well, who cares, if they take it away it ceases to be a right. There are no natural rights, so the only complaint is, "But I want it." Such arguments boil down to a trivial, "Yup, here's the definition, we're done here" or a careful dance in which words have a variety of definitions carefully chosen by just one side and we must pretend we're having a reasoned argument when what we're doing is carefully shifting definitions as necessary, like getting through a corn maze to the desired exit or using a very carefully stacked deck to win a poker game. That way be dragons.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
26. If these murderers reduce ACA in anyway, take anything away,
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 07:09 PM
Jul 2017

or remove the mandate to buy, which is what finances it, then it is time for the streets.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,620 posts)
4. OK, so we didn't stop them here. We'll have to do it someplace else.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:09 PM
Jul 2017

I am not terribly surprised at this outcome.

McCain is a traitor.

turbinetree

(24,701 posts)
13. There are no words to describe this
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:28 PM
Jul 2017

none.

This asshole got his surgery paid for by the VA or by the taxpayers in one way or another, I really hope that people are in the streets of this asshole and Johnson home and they stay there

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
19. This is just a motion to proceed. They have to present the actual bill, "debate", & then vote again
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 04:19 PM
Jul 2017

1. Present bill

2. Vote

3. Hear from constituents. Should be before #2, but you know how RepubliCons are.

4. Get the House bill and Senate bill in Reconcilliation committee.

5. Vote on reconciled bill in House and Senate.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
7. Bravo, well done...
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:14 PM
Jul 2017

For all those Dems who decided to pout and stay home?

Congratulations, because today belongs to you -- Own it!

 

Doug the Dem

(1,297 posts)
8. If Obama was White, they wouldn't even be talking about this
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:15 PM
Jul 2017

And I hereby withdraw my good wishes for John McCain!

IronLionZion

(45,442 posts)
10. Hillary is white and they want to lock her up
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:21 PM
Jul 2017

for something. Most of them can't even say what her crime was.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
22. They want their tax-break-for-billionaires at the expense of the poor, regardless
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 05:35 PM
Jul 2017

Your comment may well be true of much of the public, but the greed driving the GOP isn't just about racism.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
14. So that's it, then. Millions just lost their health care because, Obama.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:28 PM
Jul 2017

And don't fucking tell me that this was "just the motion to proceed." It will now pass the Senate, and I'll fucking eat this keyboard if it doesn't.

The only silver lining here is the Republicans now own the incoming shit storm once people realize what they've actually lost. It's 100% theirs.

Also, McCain just cemented his legacy, and it ain't a great one. What a shame for a once heroic American airman.

forgotmylogin

(7,528 posts)
15. McConnell tried to dispense with reading the first amendment.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:36 PM
Jul 2017

That was objected to, reading was temporarily interrupted by protest in the gallery. Chants of "kill the bill" were heard on CSPAN.

Old Vet

(2,001 posts)
16. They will own it and wear it as a badge of courage..........
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 03:41 PM
Jul 2017

The republicans don't give two fucks about the common man.....Period

old guy

(3,283 posts)
17. Yup.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 04:04 PM
Jul 2017

Plus they will pick up seats in the House and Senate in 2018 as a reward. Welcome to fascism folks and this is only the beginning.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
20. This is just a motion to proceed. Fact.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 04:21 PM
Jul 2017

Republicon Senators are more likely to defect on an actual bill than on a motion to proceed.

hibbing

(10,098 posts)
24. I'm with you
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 06:22 PM
Jul 2017

I really wish I could feel a tinge of optimism, but I don't. They are going to dismantle every piece of legislation and regulation that has benefited every American.

Peace

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
18. This is still a proceedural vote..Perhaps the vote on the bill itself will fail.
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 04:06 PM
Jul 2017

We will see, but I wish it was killed now, instead of later.

Peach4u2

(9 posts)
25. CAPITO is ?
Tue Jul 25, 2017, 06:48 PM
Jul 2017

Senator Capito stated she was against "proceeding"; unlike Murkowski & Collins however, Capito did not keep her word. Perhaps the worst of a bad lot.

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