Tesla's Model 3 Arrives With a Surprise 310-Mile Range

[Zorro]

Source: Bloomberg News

Three hundred ten.

That’s the electric range of a $44,000 version of Tesla’s Model 3, unveiled in its final form Friday night. It’s a jaw-dropping new benchmark for cheap range in an electric car, and it’s just one of several surprises Tesla had in store as it handed over the keys to its first 30 customers.

Tesla has taken in more than 500,000 deposits at $1,000 a piece, Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk told reporters ahead of the event. That’s created a daunting backlog that could take more than a year to fulfill—even before Musk took the stage in front of thousands of employees, owners, and reservation-holders to lift the curtain on the company’s most monumental achievement yet.

“We finally have a great, affordable, electric car—that’s what this day means,” Musk said. “I’m really confident this will be the best car in this price range, hands down. Judge for yourself.”


Read more: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-3-arrives-surprise-041157561.html

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. I don't think of a $44,000 car as affordable.

I clearly inhabit a different world from those who purchase that car.

When they get the re-charging time down to 15 minutes for a complete re-charge, then they'll be practical. Meanwhile, I regularly make trips of 500-800 miles, and a gas fill up is maybe five minutes. Also, does anyone here know what the cost of a re-charge for a Tesla is?

They make sense for someone who basically only ever drives around town (or is the car dedicated to that purpose) and is always home overnight.

[davekriss]

3. There also is a $34000 car

The cheaper version only gets about 210 miles a charge. $34k is just a little over the average cost for a new car.

(A question I'd need answered: when. The battery finally dies, how expensive is its replacement?)

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

6. I think $34k is entirely too much to pay for a vehicle.

But then I've never been enamored of hugely expensive cars, especially the ridiculous SUVs that so many people think are utterly necessary. For me, a car has always been something on four wheels that gets me from place to place. So economy and efficiency are what I care about most.

The Volkswagen people had an advertising campaign that summed it up for me:

My first two cars were Bugs.

I've been driving a 2004 Honda Civic since 2007, which I paid cash for at the time.

My next car, when I get around to replacing this one, will most likely be another Honda, either a Civic or a Fit. Even if I buy either one of those new, it will be at least $10k less than the average cost of a new car.

I also agree that the cost of a replacement battery might be a factor. I am under the impression that the batteries used in electric and hybrid cars are extremely reliable and last a very long time.

[CreekDog]

17. it's the average price people pay for a new car

it's fine if you disagree.

but the disagreement doesn't change the fact.

[lame54]

22. I googled your statistic...

And found the average to be about what you said

Followed by several articles saying the average car price is ridiculously high for this economy

True that people have a choice and pay these ridiculously high prices
But they shouldn't be encouraged

$33,000 is way too much for a car

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

47. Oh, I don't doubt that number.

But keep in mind not everyone pays that price, even when buying a new car.

I've been buying used cars in recent decades. My choice. If everyone suddenly stopped buying new cars people like me would pretty soon have nothing to buy.

Then again, a lot of people are willing to go for a seven year loan or thereabouts, and are consequently underwater on the car for several years. I've known of more than one young person who did exactly that, then had their car totalled in an accident. Insurance only paid off the value of the car, the person still owed thousands of dollars and now needed a replacement vehicle.

If you can easily afford the payments on a car and you won't be underwater on it, then go ahead and purchase the car of your dreams. Me, I prefer to pay cash. Which is why I stopped buying new and started buying used.

[StevieM]

50. I wonder if we can ever have flow battery cars.

That way we wouldn't have to worry about the battery dying. Also, they could be fueled for long periods per charge. Finally, people could fill up at the fueling station, relatively quickly.

[still_one]

52. 35k is not affordable for a lot of people whose range is limited by the next charge station. They

could buy a 17K dollar car that gets over 30 mpg, and not have to worry about range anxiety

Also the Tesla is DCfast, and that would be an additional expense to setup or an adapter for a level 2 or level 1 charge, and depending which state they are in, their energy bill might by higher than they anticipate

Until the infrastructure is there, all electric and hydrogen fuel cells will have a limited audience

Anyone signing up for a Tesla 3 now probably won't be able to benefit from the tax subsidy because the quota will be filled

Those ordering one now can expect delivery at the end of 2018

[TexasBushwhacker]

4. 500K have put down $1000 deposits

So I guess it's limitations are okay. Personally, I think plug in hybrids make more sense for all around versatility. The new Prius Prime is a plug in hybrid with a total range of 640 miles and starts at $27K.

[Kennah]

19. +1000

PHEVs have way more versatility, until there's a major shift in recharging. On an average day, we drive 10-20 miles at most.

[jmowreader]

31. I wonder how many of those people predicated their decision on free Supercharging

And how many will back out of the deal now that it's not free?

[TexasBushwhacker]

32. It depends on the cost of supercharging

It's still a lot cheaper than the Tesla S or X.

[jmowreader]

38. Comparison with the S and X is not the issue

Many people think driving a Tesla means driving for free.

[TexasBushwhacker]

39. Why would anyone think driving an EV is free?

The electricity to charge always costs something.

[jmowreader]

41. Superchargers (were) free

Tesla's idea was a good one: if people want to drive this car long distances we'll spread charging stations all along the Interstate network, positioned so you can get safely from one to the next. And because we want to do something to differentiate our car from other EVs, we'll let you quick-charge your car on these trips for free.

You can guess what happened next: people were doing ALL their charging at these things. Since the car is as computerized as it is, they could have designed the system so you could only get, say, 50 miles of range per day at any charger within 25 miles of the car's registered "home address." This would let you get home if you pulled off the freeway with the "you're about to be pushing this heavy-ass car" light blinking, but not to abuse the system by charging it only on Elon's dime. That, however, is not what they did.

[Adrahil]

58. Yeah, depends on what you use it for.

I'm getting ready to replace my 2005 Accord. It's been a reliable car, but time to move on. I'm considering a hybrid or pure electric. I mainly use it for local errands and rarely for anything over 100 miles. And electric might be ideal for me.

[DoctorRobert]

5. Cost of re-charge is free...

Tesla has set up stations strategically throughout the country to make sure the car does not run out of power when being driven. The computer on board always lets you know where the next station is. They plan to double to triple the amount of stations by 2020.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

7. Thank you for that information.

If the cost or re-charging is free, then the cost of unlimited recharges is included in the price of the car, which actually does make it far more economical. Can we feel certain that the re-charges, at least for a Tesla, will remain free?

But since I regularly drive from Santa Fe, NM to Overland Park, KS (just outside Kansas City MO), I'd hate to be stopping every few hundred miles to spend 30 minutes re-charging. However, it looks as if I should see a huge changeover to all electric cars in my lifetime, even if I will be 69 next month.

[tinrobot]

10. Not anymore

It used to be free, but that went away last year.

Any Tesla bought after 2017 will have to pay for Supercharging after the first few charges. Not that charging is expensive, but still.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

48. Thanks for the update.

I was finding it hard to imagine that charging could be free forever.

I find that the time cost of charging is a real deterrent, especially compared to how quickly I can put ten gallons of gas into my Civic.

Does anyone know exactly what a re-charge typically costs?

[n2doc]

8. Agree. Neither is 34K. Add on tax, license, and other fees too.

I wonder how many they are selling at the base price. I would venture with a huge backlog they won't be selling too many of those.

Oh, well- better than another gas hog SUV. Hopefully with economies of scale the price will keep going down on future models.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. And it's too bad that so many people think

only in terms of a gas hog SUV.

I likewise wonder how many base-price ones are sold. Some, of course. Heck, when I'm buying my Hondas I do not go for the base model, because that is definitely not what I want.

[DoctorRobert]

13. It's hard to find a car better than Honda...

I bought a new CRV in 1998. Gave it to my daughter in 2012. She still has it and drives back and forth from Tallahassee to Daytona Beach (4 hours each way) for college. It still drives like a champ at over 200,000 miles. Hard to beat that.

[CreekDog]

15. The average selling price of a new car is $33,560

except the average car gets about 24.8mpg and is driven 12,000 miles per year.

so add to that $33,560...$1100 each year for gas.

but not for the Tesla.

It sounds like they know what they're doing when it comes to pricing, doesn't it?

[NobodyHere]

23. You still have to pay the cost of charging the Tesla

Which for a 300 mile "fill up" would be about $11 according to this link

And it would be best to compare the Model S to just to sedans instead of all new cars.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

49. Thank you.

That's about half or so of what it costs me at current gas prices to drive 300 miles.

[n2doc]

26. I don't give a shit what the average price is

34 K is expensive. I personally have never bought a car, new or used, that expensive. And I am middle class.

Financing a 34 K loan, 3.5% interest, 5 years, is over 600 a month. Do you have a spare $600 sitting around at the end of each month? Well then, good for you!

They have a niche and clearly are milking it for all it is worth. Doesn't make it inexpensive. Ferrari sells all the cars they can make, too.

[Zorro]

29. There's a $7500 federal tax credit on the first 200,000 sold in the USA

and some states give rebates on the purchase of an electric car ($2500 in California, for example). That puts the price of the standard model in the $25K range. Seems to make a more compelling case for the Model 3.

[still_one]

54. Those federal tax credits are only valid until a clean fuel vehicle reaches its quota, I believe

200000 vehicles, then it no longer applies

If someone was to order a Tesla 3 right now, they would not receive it until the end of 2018, and assuming half the deposits received for the Tesla 3 went through to completion, someone ordering a Tesla 3 right now, by the time they received it would not qualify for the Federal tax break.

The sales of all electric cars are going to be limited by the infrastructure of the charging stations, and until that is more readily available, for those that want to go green, but are concerned about range anxiety, the plug in hybrids are going to be much more flexible

Also, the cost of setting up a charging station other than level I, is not being figured in by many I suspect

[TexasBushwhacker]

40. That's why more and more people are leasing

It's also why you can finance a car for 7 years now. There are plenty of people who always plan on having a car payment. I buy new and drive til the wheels fall off. Everyone has their way of doing things.

[LanternWaste]

61. Your arguments mirrors that made against personal computers in the late eighties.

Your arguments mirrors that made against personal computers in the late eighties.

[n2doc]

62. Yeah, and they were expensive back then as well for the average person

Your point?

[tinrobot]

33. Tesla isn't even offering the $35K version at the moment.

It won't go on sale until "later this year"

[harun]

57. I think the death blow to the gas car will be when they really start cranking these out and

drop the price or give crazy low lease rates. Both of which could happen in two to three years. This is why the Tesla stock has jumped and why you see big oil freaking out. They have drove the price of oil way way down to kill Tesla but it hasn't worked.

http://jalopnik.com/electric-cars-are-freaking-out-the-oil-companies-1796915113

[Bengus81]

24. That's what I never see listed. How many volts/watts/amps does a recharge use? n/t

[tinrobot]

35. There are three levels of charging - 110V, 220V, 400V

The most common way to charge is 220V. You'd typically install a 220V/40-50A circuit for a home charger.

For Supercharging, it is 400V DC, with up to 100A.

Charging at 110V is agonizingly slow - 110V/12A

[hunter]

51. It's not "agonizingly slow" if it's parked in your garage...

... and you're doing ordinary things at home, things like sleeping.

One thing I don't understand is "range anxiety."

I drive beyond the range of a Tesla maybe once or twice a year. I'd happily rent a car for those trips knowing I wouldn't have to visit a gasoline station the rest of the year.

But I'll probably never own a Tesla. When I go car shopping I hate to spend more than $1000. The last two cars I've bought cost less than that. Both have salvage titles.

[tinrobot]

64. It will take 2-3 days to completely fill the battery

110 V would give you approx 4 miles of range per hour. The 220 mile battery means 40+ hours to charge, 60+ hours for the bigger battery.

If you don't need that much range, then buy a used Leaf, charge it at 110v and call it a day.

[hunter]

67. 110 volts would cover me.

My wife and I, by some planning and greater good fortune, have avoided the commuter lifestyle since we left Los Angeles in the 'eighties.

Ten hour 110 volt charge a night would be plenty. The batteries would stay topped up.

On the other hand I've got a handful of spare slots in the circuit breaker box in the garage (and if I wanted to be cheap, an unused clothes dryer outlet) so 240 volt charging wouldn't be difficult to arrange.

For now, I'll stick with my old cars, but it's not because I think gasoline powered cars are superior to electric.

[ThirdEye]

44. Surprised at the cynicism on this board

...with comments like these.

Your response is similar to saying "Ugh. why would I buy a truck? My two door sedan is all I need!" Who cares if you don't personally fit the target market?

310 miles per charge is not "around town" driving. That's not even low enough to require nightly charging.

Remember this car is, while somewhat barebones, still essentially a luxury vehicle. It's fast, can be almost self driving, and is likely extremely safe (model S and X have some of the highest safety ratings).

It's also progress away from the internal combustion engine. As progressives, don't we care about that?

[harun]

63. A lot of propaganda being pushed right now by big oil against EV's.

Some people are drinking the kool-aid.

EV's are vitally important in helping Climate Change.
Autopilot is vitally important in reducing accidents, especially drunk driving.
Tesla's sales model is vitally important in breaking the dealership corruption that has been driving up prices and pushing predatory lending practices for decades.

[politicat]

66. Thank you.

[onetexan]

65. exactly, if i can't do long trips and know there's infrastructure in place to recharge

an all-electric vehicle is out of the question. Maybe a hybrid, but it has to be better than what's available in the market right now.

[Stuart G]

2. 310 miles?? Originally it was supposed to be 200..That is 50% more than expected.

That should help sway some people to purchase the electric car.. Hard to believe I am saying that..a viable electric car..totally electric, that does not pollute one bit...And it is somewhat reasonable, and being mass produced by a company which is committed to its success...

[EX500rider]

11. "that does not pollute one bit."

If you don't count the production of the car or batteries or the disposal of same or the production of the electricity which may be clean hydo or may be dirty coal.

[Baclava]

42. Business is booming in lithium mining

Tesla's Model 3 Launch: Where Will The Lithium Come From?

Tesla’s LCE consumption as a percentage of global lithium supply increased from 0.12% in 2012 to 3.43% in 2016 and would jump to 5.91% with the launch of the Model 3 in 2017 and to 13.62% once Tesla starts producing half a million EVs a year in 2018. Moreover, if Elon Musk fulfills his promise to produce one million EVs by 2020, Tesla’s LCE consumption would most likely surpass 20% of global lithium supply.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4065523-teslas-model-3-launch-will-lithium-come

---------------------

Stonewall Project in Nevada is US' only producing lithium mine

Rare Earth Minerals (AIM: REM) announced this morning that Macarthur Minerals (TSX VENTURE: MMS), in which REM holds a 15.5% share, has made an encouraging acquisition of a Lithium project in Nevada, near Tesla's gigafactory.

Macarthur acquired the Stonewall Project in Nevada's Lida Valley Basin, adjacent to the United States' only producing lithium mine. The project is located in the Nevada lithium supply hub, c.300km from Tesla's new Gigafactory, which is expected to produce 35 gigawatt-hours per annum by 2020.

Stonewall is also located only 48km from Pure Energy Minerals' lithium project, one of only two projects known to have a conditional agreement with Tesla.




https://www.research-tree.com/blogs/news/rare-earth-minerals-gain-exposure-to-lithium-project-close-to-tesla-s-gigafactory

[lame54]

20. Not affordable or reasonable...

A $44,000 commitment to any car is not a good idea for an average income

[pangaia]

25. Maybe not if you don't have to buy gas, just whatever the recharges cost..whatever that is.

If you drive, say, 12,000 miles/year at 25 mpg and pay $2.50 for gas. ( Which WILL go up !)
That's $1200/year for gas.. Own the car 10 years.. You save $12,000..

[lame54]

60. I get the concept but...

But the up front price is high

Yes it will go down as it gets more mainstream but until then don't call it affordable

[Adrahil]

59. Yeah, average income people are not buying this car.... yet.

Tesla is competing with the mass market luxury makers.... Mercedes, BMW, Lexus....

I make very good money and I never buy those brands. I find I get better better value for money from top line models from mainstream brands.

OTOH, Tesla offers a unique product. I admit I am intrigued. And their success will hasten a shift electric cars. Time to dispense with fossil fuel burners for everyday use.

[tinrobot]

36. You pay extra for that range.

The extra battery capacity costs another $10K

[USALiberal]

12. No not good for a long road trip I assume? n/t

[Gore1FL]

43. It depends.

If you are on a route that has super chargers, it would be OK. The recharge will be longer than a gas fill-up/bathroom break, but it isn't necessarily a hardship. A friend of mine drove from the NC to NV with few issues. There was one night a storm took out his powering option which compelled him to stop a little earlier one night that he had planned, but I doubt that is a typical occurrence.

[USALiberal]

45. Wow, thanks for the info. I had no idea they could charge that fast. n/t

[Gore1FL]

46. I shot a note to my friend. It's longer than my post implied.

1/2 hour on a super charger provides about a 50% charge, but he never was all that low. When you have to charge at 220 or at 110 it is considerably longer.

[saidsimplesimon]

14. I can't afford one.

The Tesla is a thing of beauty on the road.

[byronius]

16. This is excellent. Baby steps to full electric vehicle economies.

I'll never buy another internal combustion engine.

[lame54]

18. Not even close to affordable

[Mr.Bill]

21. Not affordable or cost effective.

I'm glad they are in business and selling them. Someday they will be cheap and practical.

Right now I drive 2015 Nissan Sentra. Costs under 20K and gets 43 mpg on the hiway.

[MattP]

27. i lease a chevy spark ev for 161 a month and got 2500 dollars cash from ca with 0 down

it has on-star included for the life of the lease and it has free service even though it doesn't need any and it came with a 500 dollar voucher for a quickcharger for the home i try to charge on the road and i have a hybrid for long distance but i love it

[TroubleMan]

28. Add to cart

I'm pretty good with the 80 mile electric range on my i3 now (plus 60 mile gas if I run out of battery), but this would be perfect.

[still_one]

56. I have a Volt, and for myself at this time I would not own an all electric vehicle unless charging

stations were almost as available as gas stations.

For me the concept of a plug in hybrid is the perfect solution. Most in town driving covers the 40 to 50 mile all electric range, and I have the flexibility not to be limited by range by switching to gasoline mode

[forgotmylogin]

30. That's pretty good.

When I fill up my newish 2013 Sonic's 10-gallon tank it tells me I have 290-310 miles to empty depending if I've been using the A/C.

Teslas are expensive now, but the fact they can do it means in 4-5 years they can probably put this technology in a midrange-affordable vehicle, and other companies will likely follow suit.

[jpak]

34. This is MAGA - not Cheeto - not Yertle the Turtle - not Eddie Musnter Ryan

yup

[jpak]

37. Home computers, CD payers, VCRs, cell phanes and smart phones ARE 2 DURN EXPENSIVE!!!!111

[Zorro]

53. Initial Model 3 reviews are coming in --here's Motor Trend's First Drive Review

The Tesla Model 3 is here, and it is the most important vehicle of the century.

Yes, the hyperbole is necessary. The original Tesla Model S was a proof of concept—it was possible to make a long-range electric vehicle. The Model X showed that you could make an electric SUV. But neither was affordable to the masses. And although the Chevrolet Bolt has shown that 238 miles of electric range is possible for less than $40,000, GM’s volume aspirations are modest.

Not so for Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who wants to blow out the walls of his Fremont, California, factory to build a half-million Tesla Model 3s every year.

Tesla gave Motor Trend an opportunity for an extended test drive with the Tesla Model 3 engineer. Following is Testing Director Kim Reynolds’ review.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/exclusive-tesla-model-3-first-drive-review/

[still_one]

55. All electric vehicle sales will be limited by charging station infrastructure. Sales will be

limited until that becomes abundant.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars have an even greater challenge to overcome.

The plug-in hybrid version gives people much more flexibility at this time, and they do not have to worry about range anxiety