Senator asks for CBO score of Sanders single payer bill

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu Sep 14, 2017, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: The Hill

Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) is asking congressional scorekeepers to analyze the cost of Sen. Bernie Sanders’s (I-Vt.) “Medicare for all” bill, which could fuel Republican attacks that a single-payer system would bankrupt the country.

In a letter to the head of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, Barrasso — the Senate Republican Policy Committee chairman — wrote he was “deeply concerned that Senator Sanders’ Medicare-for-All legislation is not only a government takeover of health care, but would also put financial burdens on the American people that they cannot sustain.”

He cited a 2016 cost estimate from the left-leaning Urban Institute that a previous plan from Sanders would cost $32 trillion over 10 years.

Additionally, Barrasso is seeking an analysis of the economic impact of the bill and a revenue estimate on Sanders’s proposals to finance the new system, which were released in a separate document Wednesday.

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/350734-senator-asks-for-cbo-score-of-sanderss-single-payer-bill

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This was so predictable. And so will be the CBO score, if it does one. And so, too, the public's reaction.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. By presenting this at a time when it absolutely cant happen, no matter what

and most importantly without total support of the entire Democratic Party and establishment, it sets up a scenario that is triple bad for single payer, healthcare and the Democratic Party.

[JonLP24]

6. The Republicans keep pushing health care bills that can't happen

With everyone looking for a health care system this is the best time to push an alternative when the Republicans will keep pushing their own alternatives.

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. Of course what will happen is the CBO will score it, they will say that to pay for

it we have to do massive tax increases or something, and by NOT being all on board and preparing everybody for that and working out the details, it just gets a bad name overall.

Nope, does far more harm than good.

[JonLP24]

17. These policies are a lot more popular than Republican proposals

This has a lot of backing from powerful Senators so it does have meaningful support. The details will be worked out in the process.

I think it does more harm just letting the Republicans set the agenda and spend all our time trying to fight it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

20. Why do you think all of our leaders were not on board?

Has to be a political reason.

Either you think Nancy Pelosi is in the bag for insurance companies and that is why she isnt on board, or you believe, as I do, she is a hip/smart politician who knows this is not the way to get there, for whatever reason.

One or the other, I know what I believe. Nancy is just one who is not on board by the way.


BTW if Al Franken is for it, and I am a huge fan of his, then he must truly believe it wont do more harm than good, I hope he is right.


(yes hip , i know most wouldnt characterize her of all people that way but she is, trust me)

[JonLP24]

24. Pelosi sometimes lacks a spine to stand for something

Like 'impeachment off the table'. I think if she was hip/smart she would be a lot more popular outside of the party.

[Eliot Rosewater]

25. Pelosi is the party leader, basically, so you say she has no spine?

Wonder how long i would last if I said something similar about Bernie.

[JonLP24]

32. Sometimes

She had all those briefings on torture programs and what not and did nothing.

I think you'd be fine. I see plenty of a shit talking about Bernie Sanders but to me he is one of the very few to consistently stand up for the American people so you can say he has no spine but that doesn't mean it is accurate.

[Eliot Rosewater]

34. I'd be fine

The simple fact is attacking the party leader and calling her spineless goes unnoticed here, if I said similar about Bernie my world would end.

[JonLP24]

36. Look at this thread

This is one of many threads around here trashing something that is cosponsored by many popular Senators but because Bernie Sanders is the main sponsor you see a lot of people around here against it. I'm one of the minority actually defending this proposal and most of the time I duck the threads. I imagine I'll be leaving this thread very soon and letting all you guys say what you feel with no opposition as I hate flame wars. Come to think of it this will be my last post in this thread. Good luck.

[Eliot Rosewater]

37. They called Bernie spineless or similar? By name?

[Me.]

44. No They Didn't

Which is why the questioned isn't being answered. You and I both know the umprage would be volcanic.

[virtualobserver]

56. No one calls Bernie spineless because that would be inaccurate

[Eliot Rosewater]

72. So you also are saying the leader of the Democratic Party, Nancy Pelosi, is spineless?

[virtualobserver]

75. No, that would also be inaccurate. Pelosi is fearless and strong.

I love Nancy. She has a different job to do than an individual House member or any Senator.



If either Single payer or an actual improvement to the ACA ever gets to the floor of the house, she will get the Democratic votes.

Treasury Secretary Paulson got down on his knees before her for a reason back in 2008. She gets it done.

[moda253]

62. Right????

Attacking the party leader goes unnoticed. Say anything negative about Bernie and you get a warning!!!

Unreal. DU needs to have a wake up call real soon!

[KPN]

71. These days it sorta seems like Bernie is the party leader, no?

[JonLP24]

33. Sometimes

She had all those briefings on torture programs and what not and did nothing.

I think you'd be fine. I see plenty of a shit talking about Bernie Sanders but to me he is one of the very few to consistently stand up for the American people so you can say he has no spine but that doesn't mean it is accurate.

[pnwmom]

27. This plan won't be more popular once people see the price tag the CBO puts on it.

This will suffocate the baby-healthcare plan in its crib.

The incremental approach would have worked much better. First, shore up the ACA. Then, add a public option. Wait till most people are on the public option, voluntarily, and then talk about single payer.

Bernie's approach is going to blow up in our faces.

[JonLP24]

31. I look at this as shoring up ACA

I live in Arizona and the mandate thing is very unpopular here. I heard someone say after failed attempts to replace ACA "It doesn't matter who is in office" as far as the mandate being here to stay. Republicans' plan price was through the roof but they aren't worried about it (besides they have propaganda on their side more than half of supporters believe in the Bowling Green massacre)

I'm not worried about Bernie's approach.

[Calista241]

41. When they start saying that all middle class families

in a 28 or 30% tax bracket will now be bumped up to 56 or 60% tax bracket, support will dry up real quick. And by not announcing how we're going to pay for it, or at least having a plan, we're leaving it up to Repubs to announce that this plan sucks and is unaffordable.

[Not Ruth]

53. Hope the CBO scores it like the WaPo, $17 trillion savings with Berniecare

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/07/06/the-dumbest-criticism-of-single-payer-health-care/?utm_term=.d26efdbfa701

[Demit]

7. I don't agree. The name, Medicare For All, will get people thinking.

They know Medicare is a godsend for older people. Medicare isn't thought of as socialism. It might take awhile, but I think the idea will take root this time.

[delisen]

13. I anticipate renewed attacks on current Medicare.

[George II]

16. That's what concerns me - renewed attacks on current Medicare and the ACA.

[pnwmom]

28. Didn't work in Vermont, one of the most liberal states in the nation, and home to Bernie. n/t

[sheshe2]

60. A godsend?

I just signed up a month ago. It is complicated and overwhelming. Hundreds of plans to chose from. I worked with SHINE twice and called my doctors office to ask what insurance they took. One was BCBS and failed to say they only took some of their plans. I lost my doctor. I have about 6 inches of paperwork and booklets they sent me. Trying to read through all that shit is overwhelming...seems like every second Tuesday they won't cover this or that. Then there is the donut hole and the out of pocket????!!!!!

I am paying triple what I paid with ACA which I was forced to pick up when I lost my job, Cobra was outrageous.

So no, Medicare is not the godsend people think it is.

[murielm99]

64. I went to the senior center

when I signed up. They helped me wade through things. There was no charge, but I gave them a donation.

It helped, too, that my husband had been through the same thing four years earlier.

[sheshe2]

67. I did as well.

They were great. I was overwhelmed and due to my doctors office, I got misinformation. So I lost my doctor.

I had no clue what I was doing...ha...still don't. Even though we are signed up. It is still complicated. I want my ACA back.

[Not Ruth]

8. Or, it might be a game changer for our children's healthcare

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. Or if the CBO score scares the shit out of people, it may mean you NEVER get single payer

[Not Ruth]

12. Then we better make sure to get a good CBO score

[Eliot Rosewater]

14. Too late, the docs are in. Either it was thought out well

and the ways they chose to pay for it will make sense to a majority or it wont.

Since they didnt have the full party on board, who knows how it will come out, lots of experts NOT on board to help them possibly.

I was supporting single payer before many here were born, so my goal is to get it and as soon as possible. This may delay that.

I pray it doesnt.

[pnwmom]

29. No way to do that. It's out of our hands now. The bill is what it is. n/t

[delisen]

15. and bad for preserving current Medicare. I expect

renewed attacks on current Medicare program.

[Eliot Rosewater]

18. Which should remind us there is an actual ENEMY of the people in this country

The GOP will kill us if they can, they will do it many ways.

Getting rid of food stamps so we starve...getting rid of HC so we die of disease and live miserably while dying.

One way or another.

So why in the FUCK are we not ALL on the same page with everything...

[JonLP24]

22. Let them attack it all they want medicare is popular

I'll let the Republicans continue to dig their own graves and I'm sick of worrying what the Republicans might do that is what is destroying the party. We don't stand for anything and give in to the Republicans at the beginning of negotiations. no we need to start here.

[lark]

43. Maybe, maybe not?

If the CBO says this will cover millions more and at less cost and that the funding is doable, this will create major talking points and enthusiasm for the bill. if CBO scores badly, of course, that does the opposite. Don't see how this could fail to increase coverage and decrease costs, especially if negotiating drug prices for Medicare is one of the components.

[TexasBushwhacker]

73. Well, the number will be big

But we are already spending an average of $10K on every man, woman and child for insurance premiums and out of pocket costs, and 10% still don't have health insurance!. That's over $3.2 Trillion for a health insurance/ healthcare system that leaves 32 Million uninsured and people still going bankrupt from medical debt.

So if $3.2 Trillion got everyone covered, so that everyone could get the care they needed, and people weren't going broke from medical debt, it would still be a net win even if it didn't save a penny. But it won't cost $3.2 Trillion.

[still_one]

79. It is a non-issue Eliot. Because of what happened in 2016, this issue is on hold for the next four

years, and most likely longer, since some self-identified progressives didn't care enough about the make-up of the Supreme Court, that they either refused to vote for the Democratic nominee, or didn't even vote.

I am afraid we all will be paying the consequences of this for some time.

[Eliot Rosewater]

80. No doubt. But once we get past the problematic faction which is dividing our party,

we can use this bill or any bill to educate the pigheaded, racist, lied to rightwinger who votes and maybe, just maybe, over time they can be convinced that this can work.

I am not saying appeal to them for votes for politicians, I just mean the more these plans are put out there and explained (assuming the plan is built strongly and smartly) the more these deplorables who vote (so important, because THEY vote and ALWAYS for their party) will come to realize it is the way to go.

Or to hell with them, the deplorables (probably better) and we realize that a good third of the population, who leans neither left or right, are afraid of the unknown, and work on them.

Gonna take the entire Democratic Party, however.

You make a great point, however, we have put ourselves behind the 8 ball big time for a long time.

[still_one]

81. I hear you. We may be thinking pretty much the same thing except I don't think we can count on

those hardcore right wingers to be convinced of anything until it is too late for them and everyone else.

My belief is that our focus should be on the independents, and those 47% who didn't bother to vote.

[Eliot Rosewater]

82. A thread here somewhere about how only one in four of us can name

all 3 branches of the government...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9597333

We have been dumbed down in preparation for the constitutional convention around the corner by the Koch Bros.

The theft of the 2016 election by Putin and the help he received from independents both prior to the D convention AND after, has put the country into a tailspin that will make that vile const convention even easier to attain.

[underpants]

2. I'd love to see that

[IronLionZion]

3. Will they include replacing several tax-funded programs?

that are already paid for with payroll taxes like Medicaid and Medicare, SCHIP, and many more.

Probably won't mention it replacing the insurance premiums either. They'll come out with some number in the trillions to shock people, but won't provide the per person monthly or annual costs or anything a normal person could relate to.

And they certainly won't consider the purchasing power of single payer to lower costs of prescription drugs and supplies/devices and other high cost items.

[emulatorloo]

19. The CBO is a non-partisan group and they are extremely competent

Republicans bashed them when the accurately evaluated ACA.

Republicans bashed them when they accurately evaluated the various versions of Trumpcare.

They know what they are doing and they have a big responsibility.

[George II]

23. That's similar to what John Conyers' bill does - it utilizes some existing health care....

....program expenses, rolls them into his medicare for all proposal.

Conyers' bill is a well thought out document that covers some of the questions running around everyone's minds. It's not perfect, but it does cover funding sources. And it's only 30 pages!

[pnwmom]

30. The CBO doesn't come out with numbers to shock people. They came out with fair assessments

on the repeal bill, and they will come out with a fair assessment on this bill.

It's a non-partisan office. We would be hypocrites to accept their assessments of Republican bills but not our own.

[Motownman78]

54. Health Insurance premiums cost my employer

$600 a month!! With Single-payer, that is another $7,200 a year I could get paid, which would help pay higher taxes.

[GulfCoast66]

61. A question...

Who is going to make up that cost differential? Either your taxes go up or employer pay more. Or someone does. I support coverage for all. But if we sell it as a simple panacea we are doomed.

[Motownman78]

63. Health insurance is too expensive now

that is the biggest barrier to single-payer.

[JonLP24]

4. I imagine most of the public will be supportive

Most of the public hates the mandate, that's the public reaction to ACA.

Go ahead go for it. Give it to the CBO.

[murielm99]

26. Can you prove that with links and reputable surveys?

From what I have seen, the public loves the ACA.

[JonLP24]

35. I agree

I'm saying the mandate part is very unpopular and I'm going by word of mouth I hear from Arizonans. The mandate was a Republican idea so Obama used it to appeal to Republicans but they all voted against it and often cite the mandate when ripping ACA.

[former9thward]

46. What have you seen?

Polling historically has been negative towards the ACA. There was an uptick this year when the Congressional votes were being taken but polling has not been above 50% positive.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

[pnwmom]

48. If they hate the mandate, they'll hate the mandated higher taxes if this is passed as is. n/t

[Renew Deal]

5. I would think that this is a good thing

And hopefully Sanders proposal is serious enough that he accounted for this.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

9. And how much is saved?

By people not paying insurance premiums? By employers not paying insurance premiums?

But, in my experience, Medicare is not a single-payer system. I pay Medicare every month. Then, I pay an insurance company for medi-gap coverage. Then I pay another insurance company for drug insurance. Then I still end up paying for drugs via co-pays. And, my hearing/vision/dental is not covered at all. So, not single-payer, just a step.

[scipan]

74. This plan will change Medicare to cover hearing/vision/dental.

[BigmanPigman]

38. What about a request for the GOP Graham Cassidy Bill's CBO score before repealing the ACA!

Where is that score GOP SENATORS? HUH? Fucking hypocrites!

[nycbos]

39. I hope Sanders has planned for this.

[Adrahil]

66. He didn't.

He has his "funding options" web page. But legislation like this requires such considerations be included up front.

[Control-Z]

40. It seems like a public option

first would be the easier path to universal healthcare. I don't know anything about the costs of either, though. I just know that Medicare isn't free as many people believe. And that the coverage is 80% of an agreed upon, lower, value of services.

We need to know the path we will take to ultimately achieve universal health care and how we will pay for and implement it. And we need to consider the impact that phasing out the (medical) insurance industry will have on jobs and the economy.

People need to be educated and informed before cheerleading overtakes smart, realistic planning. In the brief time they have on camera I've heard just a few of our leaders try to explain some of the hurdles we face. That needs to change, imo.

[pnwmom]

42. +1. nt

[Hoyt]

65. I agree. If a public option is as good as we think, people will gravitate toward it quickly.

You don't have to stuff it down the throat of those too stupid to see the benefits of a government plan, but they can see the rate difference and quality measures over time.

[Control-Z]

69. Exactly!

And I don't think it would take long for people to figure out the benefits and savings they would get from a government plan. Universal health care will follow without as much of the kicking and screaming and endless votes by the Republicans to repeal it.

[procon]

45. How does the cost Medicare for all compare to the cost of for-profit insurance?

Add the out of pocket expenses for individuals and employers, the uncovered services, the limitations and caps, the cost of treating the uninsured, the work and wages lost, the bankruptcies, and a single payer bill looks doable.

[zentrum]

47. What we have now costs more.

From Rolling Stone:

An independent analysis by the Urban Institute found the proposal Sanders popularized on the campaign trail would, if implemented, cost $32 trillion over ten years. That sounds like a big number – and it's one Sanders' campaign contested – but, as Paul Waldman of the Washington Post recently pointed out, $32 trillion would actually represent a savings compared to the $49 trillion the U.S. is on track to spend over the next decade.

[pnwmom]

50. It would be good to see the link for that. n/t

[zentrum]

51. From WaPo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/07/06/the-dumbest-criticism-of-single-payer-health-care/?utm_term=.1f12e4bd0648|

I'm sure there are others. There's no way that single payer can be more expensive than our current crazy system

[stuffmatters]

55. TY for the Reality check. Hope CBO actually does a comprehensive, honest assessment/comparison

Vaguely recall that there are some additional positive expert evaluation coming out of U Mass Amherst Economics Department, Dean Baker, Jerrod Bernstein. The two biggest cost saving features to the power of a controlled National Health system is that administrative costs will be fractionalized, not just for the system itself but those currently crippling doctors, hospitals and ultimately passed on to patients' bills, and uncontrolled PHarma and Medical costs will be ultimately reigned in under the clout of a National System presumably empowered to ultimately prevail over the current "for gouging" system.
.

The savings are enormous under the Power of a National Health System of minimal administrative costs and price controls. If you add in the idea of a gross receipts tax, as was mentioned recently in Ca, for businesses receipts over $2 million, (love, love this idea to finally force tax evading corps to actually pay something into local, state and national coffers in a way that's calculated at the cash register) and a small tax increase in place of insurance, medical, PHarma costs, you reach a very good assessment of how this can be done at lower cost and higher benefit to employers, employees, and all Americans.

I think the American Public is way past falling for the "it"ll raise your taxes" propaganda. Asking them to pay a small percentage, like they do now for Medicare) and applying it to both types of income without caps for the rich, plus finally taxing all these Corps who don't pay taxes at all in place of having no insurance or paying private insurance and Wild West PHarma prices...well, the Koch Bros, ALEC, Putin, Republicans they'll wage a massive propaganda war bigger than anything before against this. It is up to our Democrats to strike first with information and education.


I pray our Democrats will not let the Republicans sabotage this with anti tax propaganda,fear. The Democrats had better bring this to the public with the studies in place, the financing tradeoffs(small tax increase vs insurance payments) and mechanism(gross receipts OVER 2 million) clear and the overall benefits to the budget and our national welfare undeniable.

Do not make the mistakes made presenting ACA. Do not let Republicans frame and control this discussion ever again.

[zentrum]

58. Yes, Dems are

.....really going to have to explain how much money it will save. How much money we're already paying. How expensive not having single payer will be.

In the past, I have to say, Dems haven't been the best explainers. Hope they'll be passionate and not wonky. Hope they really spell out in a good narrative, how much an average family, or person, will save. How much healthier we'll all be.

Warren is really good at teaching this kind of thing.

[stuffmatters]

68. Democrats better have their facts, messengers, arguements lined up now.

Repugs comne to every debate armed to the teeth with their Think Tank bullshit, which has been polished to golden around appealing to fear, grudge, selfishness... If Dems haven't learned from the sabotage they gifted the Repugs and all their odious propaganda arms from ACA they've learned nothing.

Democrats need to learn how to come to an argument prepared to win. In my opinion the only Democratic senators actually informed enough and capable to do this immediately are Warren, Sanders, Sherrod Brown,(Yale Economics). The rest of them, including even other bill cosponsers, simply don't have the nimble economic knowledge and facility to stand up to both MSM certain "Skeptics" and Republican well practiced Fear Mongers and Liars.

There is discord among Dems here and over all about Bernie, but I want him front and center on this. First because he's very popular across party lines, the general public believes him, and he knows how to frame and control an interview/discussion in the face of Republicans relentless lie/pervert to subvert go to strategy.

And if Democrats need some respected, well informed economists on this, get tv capable experts Bernstein or Baker. Repubs have had their heathcare bullshit "economists" already honed for 8 plus years.

This also means Democrats need to unite behind this in the Senate and Congress. Then they all need to consent to actually get educated to learn the facts to capably confront Repug lies on the spot about Single Payer in order to fight this fight.

If Democrats can't present and argue (with facts) this as a ultimately a cost saving to our government, businesses and all people
compared to current insurance costs, then they are entering a fight they will not only lose, but loses miserably.

[zentrum]

70. Agree on all your points.

Dems need to be on the offensive--not just defensive --which in the past has always made them lose the initiative and the frame.

The phrase we've been telling them for years is---"Please stop bringing pens to knife fights!"

Bernie is so trusted by a huge cross section of the country---most of the country does not at at all have the peeve against him that one sees here.

[harun]

78. This

[JNelson6563]

49. lol Oh I see. NOW it matters!

These assholes are so transparent.

[GaryCnf]

52. Okay okay okay

There's enough folks parroting John Barrasso's right wing talking points, someone here must have some inside information.

Tell the truth, who knows the words to "Cowboy Joe" by memory?

[pnwmom]

57. What is Cowboy Joe?

[turbinetree]

59. Hey Barrassh****

Whats your CBO score.......................let me give you an example of your "score"

You make over $220,000 a year in the senate?

Your going to get a taxpayer tenure for health care when you leave and your going to get a pension.................so FUCK YOU

You get "entitlements" while screwing me and millions of others by trying to take mine and millions of others away


So again FUCK YOU


And the only "thing" I ask for is a right to health care and not a privilege

[Hoyt]

76. While we wait for CBO evaluation, here is an analysis of Sanders' 2016 plan from creditable source.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029596950

[andym]

77. Getting CBO scores for a variety of funding mechanisms

is actually a good idea, because it would likely show that Medicare for All saves money for most people, and would benefit the long-term status of Medicare. Imagine the chagrin of the conservatives. But there is a lot of work to be done, before CBO scores are even possible.