US to Pull Out of UNESCO Amid Palestinian Tensions

[n2doc]

Source: Bloomberg/AP


Paris (AP) -- U.S. officials have told The Associated Press that the United States is pulling out of UNESCO, after repeated criticism of resolutions by the U.N. cultural agency that Washington sees as anti-Israel.

While the U.S. stopped funding UNESCO after it voted to include Palestine as a member in 2011, the State Department has maintained a UNESCO office at its Paris headquarters and sought to weigh in on policy behind the scenes. The withdrawal was confirmed Thursday by U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to be publicly named discussing the decision. It was not clear when the move would be formally announced.

The decision comes as the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization is voting to choose a new director this week, in tense balloting overshadowed by the agency's funding troubles and divisions over Palestinian membership.

Many saw the vote to include Palestine as evidence of long-running, ingrained anti-Israel bias within the United Nations, where Israel and its allies are far outnumbered by Arab countries and their supporters.

Read more: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-12/urgent-us-to-pull-out-of-unesco-amid-palestinian-tensions

[left-of-center2012]

1. Introducing UNESCO

UNESCO is responsible for coordinating international cooperation in education, science, culture and communication. It strengthens the ties between nations and societies, and mobilizes the wider public so that each child and citizen:

• has access to quality education; a basic human right and an indispensable prerequisite for sustainable development;

• may grow and live in a cultural environment rich in diversity and dialogue, where heritage serves as a bridge between generations and peoples;

• can fully benefit from scientific advances;

• and can enjoy full freedom of expression; the basis of democracy, development and human dignity.

http://en.unesco.org/about-us/introducing-unesco

[sandensea]

39. In other words, everything both Cheeto and Netanyahoo are against.

[Not Ruth]

2. Supporting Palestine is not anti Israel, it is pro people

[Xolodno]

43. ...and given they both have similar DNA....

Its also pro Israel-Judah people.

[leftynyc]

3. When UNESCO tried to pull

the stunt of making the Western Wall part of the Temple Mount and therefore under Palestinian control, this was only a matter of time. First time I've agreed with the degenerate on anything. I was in Israel at the time and remember the Secretary General of the UN making an emergency trip to Jerusalem to get them to stop the vote in 2015.

[Mosby]

7. They decided that the Cave of the Patriarchs is a Palestinian site

Even though it existed before Islam.

Unesco is a joke.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/07/world/middleeast/unesco-hebron-world-heritage-site-israel-palestinians.html

UNESCO backs resolution ignoring Jewish link to Temple Mount

https://www.timesofisrael.com/unesco-backs-resolution-ignoring-jewish-link-to-temple-mount/

[leftynyc]

8. I'm aware

I've been hoping the US stays away from unesco for a very, very long time. What they did with the Cave is outrageous and only proves what Israel has been saying for quite some time. That I have to agree with ANYTHING the degenerate in the oval office says makes me nauseous.

[karynnj]

22. What about everything NON ISRAEL they do?

I think it made sense when the US worked to stay on the leadership group there - because it would give them a seat at the table to make their case on things like this.

So, now the organisation continues ... without Israel (which left as soon as the US did) and the US. Congress has not approved funding for years - so what exactly has UNESCO lost? What the US is losing - on this and on many other things - is being a leader. We are alone with Syria against the Paris Accord and against all are longest term allies if we leave the Iran deal.

[leftynyc]

33. I'm sorry, but I can't

appreciate what other good they may do because of the insulting and disgusting things they do on behalf of people who turned the entirety of Jewish sites in a garbage dump (when they didn't destroy them outright) when Israel didn't have control of them. It's like saying the taliban weren't so bad because they built some schools.

[karynnj]

34. I was speaking of UNESCO, so your analogy that infers I was speaking of the Palestinians

is completely wrong. UNESCO did not trash ANY sites, Jewish or otherwise.

[leftynyc]

37. I just read it again

and it's pretty clear I was speaking about unesco when I said they work on behalf of those who have a history of destroying Jewish sites when they're not in control of Israel.

[Baconator]

15. If aliens came down tomorrow they would gape at the silly shit we fight over...

Aliens: A wall?

Us: Oh yeah...

A: Why?

U: Our tribal gods demand that we must be victorious...

Shit is silly... We'd be lucky if it all crumbled into dust and there was nothing left to spat over...

They'd find a way though...

[leftynyc]

21. I'm just going to

go ahead and guess that nobody has ever tried to erase your history. A history thousands of years old. That you can't accept that some people have deep, spiritual connections to their history is not my problem.

[Baconator]

23. That's fine...

I'm sure at some point my ancestors prayed to rain gods, animal gods, thought that babies came from virgins, or whispered into walls.

It doesn't mean I have to believe it or find it valuable. At best they get a pass because they don't have access to all the information modern folks do.

If it all crumpled to dust tomorrow, there's be whole factions plotting suicide bombings and genocide to claim their rightful dust.

It was stupid then but not their fault. It's really stupid now and absolutely their fault.

[leftynyc]

24. Are we to pretend

there are groups in ALL religions that engage in suicide bombing and blowing up historical sites? Or are we to face the reality that to hand over such a sacred site to those that do is a really fucking stupid and insulting idea?

[Baconator]

25. If you don't think there are people from every interested party...

Who wouldn't kill for the right to be the sole owner of that dirt... You're nuts...

Its 'sacred' because your great grandparents all got together and agreed on the same communal fantasy and these particular rocks just happen to be involved.

Unfortunately, another group of forebearers got together and came up with a different story about the rocks so now we can all watch their offspring squabble about it for generations uncounted. ..

[leftynyc]

26. I see we're going

(at least you are) into pretend mode. Noted.

[Baconator]

31. ...because?

Or is this the part where you roll your eyes, let out an exasperated "whatever", and move on because you can't make a point?

[leftynyc]

32. Try learning some HISTORY

about when Israel didn't have control of holy Jewish sites.

Destruction and Desecration of Religious Sites

Upon its capture by the Arab Legion, the Jewish Quarter of the Old City was destroyed and its residents expelled. Fifty-eight synagogues--some hundreds of years old--were destroyed, their contents looted and desecrated. Some Jewish religious sites were turned into chicken coops or animal stalls. The Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, where Jews had been burying their dead for over 2500 years, was ransacked; graves were desecrated; thousands of tombstones were smashed and used as building material, paving stones or for latrines in Arab Legion army camps. The Intercontinental Hotel was built on top of the cemetery and graves were demolished to make way for a highway to the hotel. The Western Wall became a slum area.

Jordan’s Illegal Annexation

In 1950, Jordan annexed the territories it had captured in the 1948 war–-eastern Jerusalem and the West Bank. The April 24th resolution declared “its support for complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one State, which is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, at whose head reigns King Abdullah Ibn al Husain...”

While Great Britain and Pakistan were the only countries that recognized Jordan’s annexation – all other nations, including the Arab states, rejected it -- Great Britain recognized only the annexation of the West Bank. It never recognized either Jordan or Israel’s sovereignty over any sector of Jerusalem, viewing both Jordan’s 1950 annexation and Israel’s annexation of west Jerusalem as illegal.

Religious Restrictions and Denial of Access to Holy Sites

In direct contravention of the 1949 armistice agreements, Jordan did not permit Jews access to their holy sites or to the Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

Article VIII of the Israel Jordan Armistice Agreement (April 3, 1949) established a special committee which would “direct its attention to the formulation of agreed plans and arrangements” including “free access to the Holy Places and cultural institutions and use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives.” Nevertheless, and despite numerous requests by Israeli officials and Jewish groups to the UN, the U.S., and others to attempt to enforce the armistice agreement, Jews were denied access to the Western Wall, the Jewish cemetery and all religious sites in eastern Jerusalem. The armistice lines were sealed as Jordanian snipers would perch on the walls of the Old City and shoot at Israelis across the lines.

Israeli Arabs, too, were denied access to the Al Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock, but their Muslim sites in eastern Jerusalem were respected.

While Christians, unlike Jews, were allowed access to their holy sites, they too were subject to restrictions under Jordanian law. There were limits on the numbers of Christian pilgrims permitted into the Old City and Bethlehem during Christmas and Easter. Christian charities and religious institutions were prohibited from buying real estate in Jerusalem. And Christian schools were subject to strict controls. They were required to teach in Arabic, close on Friday, the Muslim holy day, and teach all students the Koran. At the same time, they were not allowed to teach Christian religious material to non-Christians.

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/jordanianocuupationjerusalem.asp



What they didn't destroy outright, they turned into a garbage dump. Why on earth should Israel trust them now?

[Baconator]

42. It's the same bullshit throughout and I d on't think you are capable of seeing it...

The reason you all care so much about that particular chunk of dirt/rock/whatever...

It's because your mutually agreed upon on fantasy demands that no others can have any claim on truth. Therefore the supposed spots where all the 'magic' happened are super important.

It's all bullshit... and folks have been and will continue to die for generations untold because of it...

Congrats...

[Xolodno]

45. Yes...lets talk history.

You are definitely focusing on recent history....while using long term history as a claim. So lets go there...

1. The Temple Mount was used as a place to dump trash, excrement, etc. under Christian ruler-ship as a testament to the "failed" Jewish religion.

2. It was the Muslims who restored the Temple Mount to stature....while extreme elements of Jewish faith would love to ship "brick by brick" the Haram al-Sharif to Mecca. Completely ignoring there intervention, it could have remained that way for a very much longer time. It wasn't until the 1800's the fruit loops of Christian fundamentalism created the idea of Rapture and the building of the third temple would bring about the tribulations....although, you could argue its technically the fourth.

3. If a Jewish person so much as walked near the Church of the Holy Sepulcher...he would be lucky to walk away alive.

4. It was the Muslims who often in the past had to intervene in behalf of Jewish people in the "Holy Land" against the Christians.

5. And you are focusing on the Islamic nations claiming control while not focusing on why. Britain promised everyone and their mother they would have "Jerusalem" if they fought for them during WW1. Shit, Russia was supposed to get Istanbul...and be allowed to rename it Constantinople. And he 6-day war would have probably been the demise of Israel....if it wasn't for Jordan not being the "mood" to "cooperate" with Egypt and few other Arab nations....but that's another history.

But lets talk recent history...

1. European Jews practices toward Arab Jews. Shit, non-Jews such as the Subotniki from Russia got better recognition and treatment than a Jew from Yemen.

2. The "terror" attacks practiced by militant Jewish elements under the British Mandate. It worked for Begin...

3. The apartheid tactics used currently...and unlike South Africa, DNA says Jews and Palestinians...despite both hotly denying it and coming up with every excuse in the book...and making up more...are related. Even then, how do you differentiate between Palestinians who were originally Jewish in religion...but forced to convert in the centuries before and the history lost? An Israeli or Palestinian soldier shooting each other, could very well be long term lost cousins.

4. There was never a restoration of Israel...or Samaria if you prefer. Only Judah was restored after the return from Babylon...and that kingdom was about of a third of the size...and that's being generous...of King David's united kingdom.

5. Your not the only people whose history has been attempted to be erased by another. Christianity in its early days had three segments, where did the Gnostic Christians go? Or the Jewish Christians? Why was only the Gentile Christians allowed to survive?

I could go on. But you really stepped in it here. There are no good guys here...much like the three roving mob-gangs who were trying to claim authority and killing each other and own people just prior to the Roman Siege that resulted a little over half of the population of Judah being exiled.

You probably don't like anything I had to say just here, but hey, I don't like saying it either. But it did happen.

[leftynyc]

51. Of course, NONE of that has

one fucking thing to do with what this whole conversation is about. That would be unesco's desire to hand over a decidedly Jewish site over to the Palestinians - the same way they did with the Cave of the Patriarchs (another disgusting decision by this group). It would be like handing over Al Asqa to the Israeli's to control. This site would have exploded in that case but here it's all a big fucking yawn. No wonder nobody gives a crap what the far left has to say on this issue.

[Xolodno]

54. That was my point...is it Jewish?

400 years under Christian control.

1000 years under Jewish control.

1300 years under Islamic control

This is from "Jerusalem, a biography"...and the author is Jewish.

If you ask me, wall the whole area off and give no one access. Or go one better, restore the area to worshipers of Baal.

[karynnj]

35. As a Jew, I would ask is it not true that Judaism switched from temple worship with animal sacrifice

to prayer, ethics and rituals in the Babylonian era when we had no access to the temple, the only place where sacrifices could occur? There is far more to Judaism and to Jewish history than the remnant of the temple. I am likely as connected to my synagogue as you to yours.

In fact, years ago, in 1996, we took a trip with our three daughters to Israel. We hired a guide for two of the days - one to see Masada and the Dead Sea and the other for our first day in Jerusalem. It was summer and in the school year she was a teacher. However, she was ultra Orthodox. When we could see the Al Askar mosque from a distance she asked the girls if they knew what they were seeing. The oldest - at 10 correctly said the mosque. Then the teacher asked if she knew that the time would soon come when the mosque would be swallowed up by the earth and from the earth our temple would reemerge. We told her that was unlikely.

When I mentioned this to a friend who was both a Professor of Religion and a Jew, his comment was that if the mosque was ever destroyed even if by nature, it would have enormous consequences on Judaism, which long ago moved far beyond the temple worship described in detail in the Torah. No matter how many parts of the liturgy pray for the rebuilding of the Temple, it would cause on earthquake in contemporary Judaism with most non Orthodox Jews overtly rejecting the idea of returning to animal sacrifice at the Temple. Yet, in Israel there are some among the ultra Orthodox wanting just that.

However, that was not what I was speaking of. I was saying that I agree with Obama that the US having a place in the room where decisions are made matters. There are things that Obama/Kerry/Power were able to change because they were there and changed opinions. The fact is the decision of Trump was simply to feed red meat to his base. In fact, if he wanted to protect Israel, maybe having his diplomats - the few he has - actually participate on this and other things.

It does not help Israel that Trump is on the way to making the US a pariah nation - a big powerful one - but a pariah. It can happen to a big power -- as it did to Russia.

[leftynyc]

38. I hardly think

not wanting the holiest site for Jews to not be turned into a garbage dump AGAIN means I'm longing for the temple to be rebuilt. HISTORY tells me what would happen if the Western Wall was not in Israel's hands. President Obama did the right thing by stopping payments to unesco - all degenerate donnie did was make it official we don't consider them a fair arbiter on anything when it comes to Israel.

[karynnj]

40. UNESCO had nothing to do with "turning it into a garbage dump"

CONGRESS stopped the payments. Congress ended the funding when UNESCO recognized a Palestinian state. The State Department both lobbied UNESCO to allow us a vote that was loss because of the funding problem and got Netanyahu to drop his objection to the US funding it and to get AIPAC to stay out of the issue. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/12/kerry-netanyahu-congress-fight-unesco-funding.html

Your characterization of Obama's position is laughably wrong. It seems clear that John Kerry worked very hard to get the funding problem fixed and to stay in the organization. It is not in the US interest to walk away from international groups - when we do we lose the ability to have a voice there.

[leftynyc]

46. When the "group"

shows what it's all about on the issue of Israel, you leave if you're a fair person. Unless, of course, you think it's perfectly okay to hand the Wall to those who have ALREADY PROVEN they can't be trusted with it. Sounds to me it's an issue you don't give a crap about or think it's okay to poke ALL JEWS in the eye because you don't like Bibi. Fuck UNESCO. There is good reason you don't hear Democratic leadership speaking out on them.

[karynnj]

47. They did not and could not "hand the wall" to anyone

Did you bother to read the link I gave you or anything I wrote? You obviously believe only to right wing sources like Times of Israel, Jerusalem Post etc.

You also completely distort the Obama administration's position. Democratic leaders now have to pick their battles. UNESCO is nowhere near as important as ACA, tax cuts for the 1% that will explode the deficit - leading the same proponents of the tax cut to demand cuts to programs, or Trump's idiotic actions on the Iran deal, which his own generals say is working.

Do you even know what UNESCO does beyond letting Palestine in - which does nothing in terms of creating a Palestinian state? Do you know who the organization elected this week to be their new Director General? She is Jewish and French. Is she antisemetic too?

[leftynyc]

52. You are trying to make this larger

than it is. They have tried - TWICE NOW - to hand over control of the Western Wall to the Palestinians. And you don't see anything wrong with that. But let's just imagine what this site would be saying if they handed Al Asqa over to the Israeli's to control. Now I'm done with this conversation - trump finally did something that doesn't make me want to vomit all over him. And unesco still sucks.

[karynnj]

53. Again, UNESCO can not hand over land anywhere, anytime They do not have that power

It does reflect the UN's position that the area is occupied territory,. ONLY a two state settlement would create different lines and is why the US position under Obama, Bush, Clinton, GHWB has been the 1967 border WITH SWAPS. Clearly, the wall would be part of a land swap. In fact, in the few articulated plans for two states, Jerusalem is either not dealt with and labeled something that needs to be worked out or is treated in some special way to reflect the intense competing interests.

The other alternative - Israel actually annexing the West Bank, as some of the people in Netanyahu's government have called for could change the lines as well. That could have a powerful effect on liberal Zionists as it would throw the two values much further into conflict.

The ONLY thing UNESCO did in the case of the Tomb of Patriarchs is to label the area a UNESCO site - and list it under Palestine - rather than with the 9 sites listed under Israel. It is the city of Hebron (listed before its arabic name incidentally) entire old city. Note that the description DOES state that the tomb is a site of Christian and Jewish pilgrimages. http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1565 As to Jerusalem, it is listed under Jerusalem (site proposed by Jordan) - and in the very first line says it is a holy city for "Judaism, Christianity, and Islam" , later in the text, it mentions the wall. http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/148 Note the links are from their official site.

Note that the Reagan administration fought UNESCO too and the problem in 2011 was legislation that was written long before that was triggered by UNESCO recognizing Palestine as a country. Even though US policy has officially been a two state solution - through GHWB, Clinton, Bush and Obama, there was intense sensitivity to calling it a state when referring to negotiations, at the UN or in any international entity. This is a function of there having been a 50 year occupation - where for decades the goal has been stated that there will be 2 states. (I think labeling them Palestinian territories might have been wiser.)

Although it is likely a lost cause in your case, go to UNESCO's page. http://en.unesco.org/ Here are things that are prominent on it:

1) The election of a new Director - General, Audrey Azoulay. From Haaretz, you would learn that she is a French Jew, whose father was a well know Moroccan Jewish human rights leader.

2) Look at the "sustainable development goals" - these are good things

3) They designated tomorrow as the international for the eradication of poverty


Click on any of the many efforts that back their goals on education, helping countries deal with climate change and improve water security. The really sad thing is that the US and Israel two very useful countries with the creative, scientific resources would add significantly to these goals.

[TubbersUK]

4. Isn't Israel a member ?

Has Israel pulled out too?

[grossproffit]

13. Yes. Israel will be leaving as well.

[TubbersUK]

19. Thanks n/t

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. NOTHING trump does is good and EVERYTHING he does is told to him to do by Putin

[leftynyc]

10. This wasn't done at the behest

of russia. It was at the behest of his evangelical base. But that doesn't make them wrong about this one thing.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. Ain't it grand? I travel the world to see UNESCO sites and now my country

won't participate.

[leftynyc]

9. Then perhaps

unesco should be more careful in not trying to make JEWISH sites like the Cave of the Patriarchs and the Western Wall in Israel Judenrein. unesco is foul.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Accept nobody has made those sites Judenrein. That's all I'm saying about the

UNESCO resolution. I will continue to donate to them and praise them for their efforts to preserve historic sites.

[leftynyc]

20. 25 years ago I could

visit the Cave. now I can't without risking my life. Call it what you want. Trying to take the Wall away from the Jews was the act of anti Semites. Do whatever you want with your money.

[karynnj]

48. The difference is not because of a UNESCO designation

Blame Hamas and an unresolved 50 year occupation.

[karynnj]

36. Like you, I have enjoyed seeing many of them - most recently Radicofani in Italy

I do not understand how that poster thinks Jews have been removed by UNESCO. Both sites are - de facto - controlled by Israel.

[ripcord]

11. This is just a symbolic act

President Obama cut off funding to UNESCO in 2010.

[leftynyc]

12. For VERY good reason (n/t)

[alarimer]

27. No.

[leftynyc]

29. Pres Obama

stopped the payments (excellent decision). Degenerate donnie just went further and pulled our membership. Both excellent decisions given their ridiculous anti-Israel bullshit which I listed above.

[karynnj]

50. CONGRESS, not Obama, stopped the payments

Obama's administration worked hard to restore them and to regain the lost US vote.

[grossproffit]

14. I'm good with this.

[Blue_Tires]

17. Tel Aviv cracks the whip and Washington falls in line

[alarimer]

28. Yes.

Israel is a rogue country, guilty of endless human rights violations. Why do we support that?

[leftynyc]

30. And yet still heads and shoulders

above every single one of their neighbors who ALL get a pass from DU. Unless you think you'd like to be a women or a gay in any of their neighboring countries.

[karynnj]

49. No one on DU gives the repressive Sunni or Shia states

in the middle east a pass. Can you find a generally positive post on any of these countries?

[Blue_Tires]

41. How does that even fucking work?

Trump's so worried about "anti-Israeli bias" on one hand WHILE OPENLY CHEERLEADING MOTHERFUCKING NAZIS in the other...