Clash reported between Jordan and Syria in border area

[Bosonic]

Source: Reuters

Fighting involving armoured vehicles broke out late on Friday between Jordanian and Syrian troops at a border region that has been used as a passage for refugees fleeing Syria, said a Syrian opposition activist who witnessed the incident.

The fighting occurred in the Tel Shihab-Turra area after a number of Syrian refugees attempted to cross into Jordan, the activist said.

No immediate comment was available from Jordanian authorities.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/10/syria-crisis-jordan-urgent-idUSL6E8JAEJ620120810

[elleng]

1. This is BAD BAD BAD,

and imo opens door for international action, which we've all been reluctant to undertake.

[Alamuti Lotus]

2. that's not exactly accurate..

there already IS international action, and nobody involved has been the slightest bit reluctant to undertake a damn thing, only meticulously aware of the need for effective public relations. What is most unfortunate is precisely how effective those smokescreen activities are.

[elleng]

3. More info, please?

[Alamuti Lotus]

5. What do you mean?

These so-called "revolutionaries" are diplomatically advanced, financed, and armed by the United States, England, France, Israel, the NATO Republic of Libya, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, certain pro-Saudi factions in Lebanon, Turkey, and Jordan. Foreign fighters are flooding in from Libya, North Africa, the Arab Gulf dictatorships, Pakistan, the Caucasus, and Europe. There are on a weekly basis some new economic terrorist activities (referred to as "sanctions&quot applied by various foreign powers under the direction of the US State Department, corporate media agencies are active in what may be the most coordinated and singularly focused propaganda offensive in modern history, plans for attacks are discussed with a really casual and gruesome frequency, and regular calls for aggressive action are made by the powers of arrogance at the UN.

What more international action can be taken?

The powers of arrogance may really prefer to take a more direct assault on their former business partners, but recent experience has shown that this tends to evoke a more general resistance than employing what essentially just amount to carefully directed mercenaries (well intentioned and thoroughly self-deceived though they may be), such as in the present matter.

[riderinthestorm]

6. You've forgotten the two most important, direct actors: Iran and Russia

who've provided arms, money, and military might.

[elleng]

7. Right, but to whom???

[riderinthestorm]

9. Ellen, that's precisely the point. We don't know exactly what's playing out in Syria

We know there's Iranian Revolutionary Guards advising Assad - they're Shia brethren who see the conflict in religious sectarian terms. But of course they're also in opposition to the US and Israel so who else are they supplying?

Russia's got their only ME port in Syria, plus Putin is ALL about playing old cold war games. They're also savvy enough to know that a regional, sectarian (and complicated tribal) war in the region is nuts so they're not above playing all sides.

Then there are Turkish separatists who are fighting to break away from Turkey.... And Israel - don't forget Israel....

We do NOT have any idea what's playing out in Syria other than we know this isn't a typical Arab Spring revolutionary movement. This isn't an organic grass roots rebellion of Syrians v Assad. Not at all.

There's a reason TE Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) wanted Damascus as a sort of Pan-Mid-East capital - because he recognized it was a crucial nexus point of tribal, religious and regional conflicts.

[Alamuti Lotus]

8. neither as important, nor as direct as certain reports may indicate

Best as I can tell, Russian activity has been relegated to routine business dealings, fulfullment of existing contracts, and a meekly obstructive approach to diplomatic efforts. While opposing on valid principle all predatory activity from the US and its proxy forces, they have been hesitant to directly support their own client state in this conflict. It's the same deal as when they abandoned Vietnam to the Chinese invaders (who were themselves promptly shoved towards the exit in short order), just a different decade.

Yes, I saw the YouTube videos from the FSA and its terrorist allies about the 97 Russian generals that they captured and beheaded before lunch, but I also saw those guys on TV the next day refuting the premature reports of their deaths. Yes, I also saw the YouTube videos from the FSA and its terrorist allies about the 97 Iranian Revolutionary Guard commanders they captured and beheaded after lunch, and it's still just really sloppy propaganda.

Despite the energetic attempts from highly motivated US/Israeli parties to craft a narrative stating otherwise, even Iran has been hesitant to provide much more than moral support for Asad. Perhaps if he and his friends represented a more palatable pillar of resistance to the forces of arrogance, there might be more tangible force provided in the direction. If anything, it is still nothing compared to the well-oiled machine coordinating the offensive on the other end of the matter.

[riderinthestorm]

10. Important because they've set themselves up as propaganda mouthpieces

and public perception in that region is RIFE with rumour mongering and false allegiances.

Iran's already stated they have Revolutionary Guards advising Assad. They've also said that if Assad is harmed or removed they'll attack Israel. Russia's opposition to the US is old cold war stuff that's mostly important as they move in tandem with China.

I'm sure they're doing more than what we know but its not entirely important what they're doing yet since nobody has a full picture of what's happening in Syria. Their very overt posturing is significant however. They're taking big stands on this - important international statements. Important in ways like "Iran will close the Straits of Hormuz"... you can't discount this stuff.

[leveymg]

12. The only thing missing in your concise summary was the endgame: my money's on a genocidal

Last edited Sat Aug 11, 2012, 10:29 AM - Edit history (3)

regional war between the Shi'ia and Sunni, with the US, NATO, Israel and the multinational oil companies fueling the fire. Unlike Iraq, there will be a naked grab of Iran's oil holdings, particularly its huge offshore oil and natural gas fields in the northern Persian Gulf. Iran will try to destroy the central Saudi oil pipeline and offloading terminal at Ras Tanura, and may succeed at damaging it sufficiently to impact world oil supplies for months. Of course, Iranian oil will also be off the market.

Those who will tell you that there will be no occupation are lying to you. The first target of any offensive against Iran will be those offshore energy fields, and the US military will move to occupy them, just as Saddam did during the first three years of the Iran-Iraq War before finally being pushed back. That will lead to a global commodities grab bag, accompanied by a breakdown in the pretense of international rule of law and spell the effective end of the UN as an honest broker. The U.S. is going to be vilified like you won't believe. Like the Vietnam War and Bush's Iraq Invasion rolled into one. Lyndon Johnson was also a pretty good President with a solid mandate when he was reelected. But, the US is far less dominant and able to control outcomes than we were then. This all-against-all conflict will spread uncontrollably in ways that are barely imaginable.

Russia will remain ambivalent, as it's position as the world's number one oil exporter will be solidified. The Chinese are the wildcard, as they are directly threatened from all sides by a breakdown in the world oil and natural gas supply and looming supply cost rises that they can't entirely pass along. Asia will be hit hardest by the economic effects of this, and the outcome of destabilization is not something anyone has a handle on.

There is no manageable endgame to this.

[David__77]

4. "Refugees" or armed insurgents?

Syria has every right to defend the integrity of its borders. Jordan and Turkey have not been vigilant about keeping illegal arms from entering Syria.

[bemildred]

11. UPDATE: 3 High ranking Syrian officers defect to Jordan

AMMONNEWS - Three Syrian high ranking Syrian officers defected and fled to Jordan on Friday , a source told Ammon News.

Brigadier Ibrahim Al Jabawi, Colonel Qaseem Shammari, and Colonel Ali Al Alloush, who was a member of the Syrian Fourth Brigade whhich headed by President Bashar al-Assad's brother Mahir- fled to Jordan through the border city of Ramtha north of Jordan, source added.

A Jordanian official confirmed to Ammon News the fleeing of the Syrian officer.

http://en.ammonnews.net/article.aspx?articleNO=17531