Decision by Netanyahu, Barak to strike Iran is almost final — Israel TV

[sad sally]

Source: The Times of Israel

PM believes Iran’s regime is aiming to ‘destroy the Jewish people,’ does not think Obama will resort to force. Nuclear drive ‘further ahead’ than previously thought. In a year, Israeli action could have only ‘negligible effect’

By TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF - August 11, 2012, 12:31 am

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak have “almost finally” decided on an Israeli strike at Iran’s nuclear facilities this fall, and a final decision will be taken “soon,” Israel’s main TV news broadcast reported on Friday evening.

Channel 2 News, the country’s leading news program, devoted much of its Friday night broadcast to the issue, detailing the pros and cons that, it said, have taken Netanyahu and Barak to the brink of approving an Israeli military attack despite opposition from the Obama administration and from many Israeli security chiefs.

Critically, the station’s diplomatic correspondent Udi Segal said, Israel does not believe that the US will take military action as Iran closes in on the bomb.

Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/decision-by-netanyahu-and-barak-to-strike-iran-is-almost-final-israeli-tv-says/

[Dkc05]

1. I don't get why they feel the need to do this.

We can protect their country. Iran will not cross America. This whole issue is to just screw up our election. We should stop giving them all our financial support.

[riverbendviewgal]

4. I agree

Israel gets the most aid from the USA.....

It seems they want to play this to get Romney to win the election.

Syria is the priority right now..

[regnaD kciN]

37. They "need to do this"...

...because upheaval in the middle east has the potential to spark another economic crash, leading desperate American voters to give up on Obama and "take a chance" on Bibi's pal Mittens.

[nanabugg]

56. +++1,000

And we will pay with more of our children's blood than theirs. That's the way it has always been. We are spread everywhere across the world and we can be hit in multiple places.

[SoapBox]

2. Uhhhh.....

how's about helping to take care of Syria first.

And this is not much of a plan, secret or otherwise, if it was on the nightly news.

[2pooped2pop]

3. does anybody think they are warmongering to

take Obama's eyes off the election ball? Israel has been supposedly planning to attack for what? 20 years? Is the rhetoric being ratcheted up to interfere in our election? Is this why Rmoney went there?

Is it paranoid or stupid to wonder this?

[still_one]

10. Not sure where you get the 20 years from. The fact is Iran was never an issue until the genius in

Our government decided it would be a great, idea to attack Iraq

That is when the balance of power in the middle east became even more unstable. That brilliant move was not only supported by bushco, but endorsed by the Israelli government


No country has the right to attack another country unless that country attacks or invades another country

That is why the argument we must attack Iran is stupid. Iran knows if they attack Israel or Eupope the will effectively be committing suicide

The same applies, but in a longer and direct way if we or Isreal attack Iran. There will be blowback, and it will extend worldwide

Not only will it destroy the economy with high energy cost, but the wars and terrorist acts,that it will spawn will last for decades

This will not make Israel more secure, but less secure

As far as Israel is concerned they should be told in no uncertain term if they attack Iran they are on their own, and will have to deal with the consequences on their own

[AntiFascist]

38. I agree with most of your post...

but PNAC had broad plans for regime change in the Middle East even during the Clinton years. (Clinton refused to go along, then coincidentally the Lewinsky affair happened).

"in 1996 Perle composed a report that proposed regime changes in order to restructure power in the Middle East. The report was titled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm and called for removing Saddam Hussein from power, as well as other ideas to bring change to the region. The report was delivered to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.<8>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Calls_for_regime_change_in_Iraq_during_Clinton_years

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/06/24/221769/-Monica-Scooter-and-Tucker-s-daddy


On edit:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EC20Ak07.html

"In July 1996, Perle, Feith and the Wurmser couple wrote the notorious paper for an Israeli think tank charting a roadmap for Likud superhawk and then-incoming Israeli prime minister Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu. The paper is called "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm". Perle, Feith and the Wurmsers tell Bibi that Israel must shelve the Oslo Accords, the so-called peace process, the concept of "land for peace", go for it and permanently annex the entire West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The paper also recommends that Israel must insist on the elimination of Saddam, and the restoration of the Hashemite monarchy in Baghdad. This would be the first domino to fall, and then regime change would follow in Syria, Lebanon, Iran and Saudi Arabia. This 1996 blueprint is nothing else than Ariel Sharon's current agenda in action. In November last year, Sharon took the liberty to slightly modify the domino sequence by growling on the record that Iran should be next after Iraq."

[still_one]

47. I don't consider PNAC part of the Israelli government. It is a think tank which effectively calls

For middle east/energy/world domination by the US, at least that is my impression of the think-tank, which controlled US foreign policy under the bush 2 administration, and was responsible for the destabilization and wars in the middle east

[AntiFascist]

53. According to this DU post...

the document ("A Clean Break&quot was written in collaboration with the Likud Netanyahu government:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1544476&mesg_id=1545436

[still_one]

61. Ok, but it is still a US think tank even if other governments are involved in its input.

Nevertheless it is not in the country's or the worlds best interest, and whose ideas caused a lot of suffering

Our for policy stinks

[AntiFascist]

62. ..."foreign policies" also driven by the American Enterprise Institute...

from a March WSJ article by AEI senior fellow, John Bolton:

http://www.aei.org/article/foreign-and-defense-policy/regional/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-the-crisis-with-obama/

"Mr. Netanyahu must realize he has not been banking good behavior credits with Mr. Obama but simply postponing an inevitable confrontation. The prime minister should recalibrate his approach, and soon. Israel's deference on Palestinian issues will not help it with Mr. Obama after a pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear program. It would be a mistake to think that further delays in such a strike will materially change the toxic political response Israel can expect from the White House. Israel's support will come from Congress and the American people, as opinion polls show, not from the president."

[Submariner]

24. This is Israel fucking with the American elections

this is that asshole Bibi trying to help his school associate Mountain Meadows Mitt win the election.

There is no other justification than to threaten to launch a war this fall. Bibi is a sneaky little POS.

[Wolf Frankula]

5. Tell them what Monkey Bush told them

If you attack Iran, you're on your own. We will NOT help you. And if Russia attacks you, good luck.

Wolf

[snappyturtle]

6. I don't suppose Iran much likes Israel's nuclear arsenal. nt

[Ken Burch]

27. that's DIFFERENT, DAMMIT! it's TOTALLY DIFFERENT because...because...because...

(...well, I heard there was SOME reason it was different....)

[sabrina 1]

30. Exactly! The rest of the world isn't too happy about it either since I have never heard

Iran threaten to nuke anyone, but I constantly hear talk of nuking Iran from that far right wing, dangerous government in Israel.

That man is a threat to world peace. Obama should tell to go to hell and if he wants to start a war with Iran, NOT with our military. The American people are beholden to this guy even though he claims to hold Congress in the palm of his hand.

[Scootaloo]

7. They're trying to goad Iran into making the first move

They've been singing this song since 2001, if you remember. The goal is to make Iran feel threatened enough to launch a preemptive attack on Israel. This will effectively force the United States and likely Europe, to come into the fight on Israel's side, defending their ally in the region. if Israel launches the first attack, then they're going to be on their own. Maybe the US will give them intel like we did with Iraq back in the 80's, but we won't be putting our necks on the line.

If Israel attacks, it won't do anything but encourage the Iranian nuclear program, and will make a goal of weaponization absolutely certain. After all, that's what happened in Iraq after Israel attacked Osirak.

After that attack, said Shapir, Saddam cranked up Iraq’s nuclear production several times over, putting thousands of new technicians to work on the project. This was only discovered when the Americans questioned the Iraqi nuclear scientists they captured during the 1991 Gulf War. It was that war, and the subsequent takeover of Saddam’s WMD, that prevented Iraq from getting the bomb – not the 1981 israeli attack on Osirak. In fact, the bombing of Osirak escalated the Iraqi nuclear project such that if Saddam had not become power-mad and invaded Kuwait in 1990, bringing on the American invasion, he would have achieved nuclear capability by 1994, said Shapir, who directs the INSS’s annual, highly influential ”Middle East Balance of Forces” report.

http://972mag.com/dont-believe-bibibaraks-lies-israels-attack-sped-up-saddams-nuclear-program/52350/

[jtuck004]

31. Most likely possibility. If they can do this the pain the US will feel

can be blamed on someone else.

[bluestateguy]

8. If they do it before the election, Obama will support them publicly (I predict)

Florida, particularly Palm Beach, Broward and Dade counties, is just too important.

[amandabeech]

25. The thought of R&R changing Medicare at all, not to mention Medicaid which pays for the nursing home

may balance out the need to dance the Southeast Florida two-step.

Bibi and his boys may have lost a little traction with the Ryan nomination.

[Equate]

32. I said this in another thread

but here it is again, if Israel strikes Iran, Iran will light off everything in it's arsenal and attack anything associated with Israel, up to and including U.S. forces and assets in the region.
Now imaging news stories along with graphic pics of a U.S. naval ship burning and sinking. What do you think Pres. Obama's reaction is going to be?
I'm only speculating, but a strong case can be made here, my gut reaction would be that the American people, and the Congress would demand that Pres. Obama strike back and I fully believe he would unleash hell on earth with massive air and naval strikes against Iran's military and infrastructure and in about a weeks time, Iran's economy and military would cease to exist as a viable force, and there could very well be a change of regime in the chaos that followed.

Of course, this is all speculation and I dearly hope this does not come to pass.

[leveymg]

9. This has 2 hoped-for purposes: provoke Iran into striking first, change course of US elections

Neither is likely to prove more realistic than all the previous threats.

[still_one]

11. If Iran attacks first, Obama will win the election because he will come to the aid of Israel.

However, if Israel attacks first the outcome is less clear

I also predict what I said back when these kinds of stories started, neither Israle or Iran will attack each other, it is in neither countieries interest

This is just saber rattling

[leveymg]

15. Obama is likely to win either way. Most likely, this is just another provocation and

effort to prod Iran into doing something stupid, first.

The question really is, how much of the Israel-US split on Iran strategy is actually real, and how much of it is just 'good cop, bad cop." I'd put may money on the latter.

Even though Bibi and Barack don't seem to like each other much, they're actually good for each other politically, as the appearance of disagreement serves the strategic interests of both.

[Equate]

33. I don't think it will change the course of elections

If American assets are attacked, and Iran has made it crystal clear that they would attack American assets, Americans traditionally rally around the Pres. and at that point, Romney might as well throw in the towel because Pres. Obama would waltz right back into the WH.

[The Magistrate]

12. If He Does This Before Our Election, Ma'am, I Will No Longer Consider Myself a Supporter Of Israel

[still_one]

16. It isn't going to happen. It is not in either countries interest, and the consequnces are

Unpredictable

I don't know who is pushing this, but I suspect oil interests are involved in some way

[The Magistrate]

20. Still, Sir, I Mean It

There is no pressing military necessity, and so the only reason for doing it at some point in the next several months would be an attempt to manipulate the political life of the United States.

[still_one]

48. Perhaps, but I do not believe it will happen, especially under the Obama administration, and if it

did happen no matter what the reason, the recovery that we are slowly crawling out of will go into a relapse that will last decades with untold suffering as the result of that, and any wars that are spawned from it

[azurnoir]

64. Do you think that just 'maybe possibly might' this could be a distraction from other issues

in Israel? Little things like the social protests, the Israeli economy which is showing signs of the 1%ers taking the lions share much like the US, the Palestinian issue, and last but certainly not least the upcoming Israeli elections, nothing works quite so well for the rightwing as a frightened populace and perhaps somewhere in there the US elections are playing too, but again IMO Israeli leader can read polls and the ones here show Obama as the winner, starting a war won't change that

[The Magistrate]

65. Possibly, Ma'am, But I Repeat: Attack Iran Before Our Election, and I Can No Longer Support Israel

I do not doubt a good many Democrats will have similar reaction to such a blatant attempt at manipulating our political life here.

[azurnoir]

67. No doubt about anything you've said

I guess what I'm getting at here is motivations besides us (US) and there are layers of them, but the question is of course will they really do it? I have my doubts and have been trying to get a gauge on the overall Israeli public's feeling about such a move, but for the US this does seem a blatant effort to affect our politics and a rather distasteful one at that, but only one of a couple that I know of there is also the IVoteIsrael campaign aimed at people with dual citizenship that live in Israel but still are eligible to vote in US elections which claims to be non-partisian but......... I find to be rather distasteful too

[Yeah Its Spin]

13. “almost finally”

[indepat]

14. Wonder if Saudi Arabia will really shoot down Israeli planes on their way to and from

ran as was reportedly averred? Hopefully cool heads, a little common sense, and sanity will rule the day.

[leveymg]

17. That's just posturing.

KSA and Israel have a marriage of convenience when it comes to Iran.

As for Israel, you have to wonder why in the world would they get in the way by attacking Iran while the Sunni and Shi'ia are tearing each other apart?

[Behind the Aegis]

18. 12 years in the planning and the they STILL aren't done?!

What the fuck ever!

[stockholmer]

19. War crime, plain, simple:Syria, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan,etc.The empiric maw is never quenched

Anyone who supports this barbarous adventurism in Syria and Iran best look themselves in the mirror and ask some questions:

1. If this were a Rethug POTUS leading the charge of not-so-light brigade, would you support the campaigns against Syria and Libya and Iran like you supported the Afghan and Iraq wars? (Oh? You didn't support those? How strange.)

2. Which is worse?

(1) Stay the hell out of other countries internal affairs, if and until they violate another country by invasion, even if the regime is brutal and repressive (much like the US's good friends from the House of Saud who make people like Qaddafi and Assad look like pikers and/or beacons of tolerance).

or

(2) Kill well over 1.5 million MORE people than would have ever died under Hussein, Qaddafi, and the Taliban, plus turn all 3 of those nations into abject bombed-out, radioactive (Fallujah anyone?) shadows of once they were before the NATO/US/UK hordes tore them apart. Rinse, wash, and repeat for Syria, Iran, plus add another 1 to 2 million dead, mostly women and children.

3. What happened to change the stance of the US towards Syria, when just a couple of years ago they were torturing prisoners for America as the US military and CIA gave the command?

4. What is it going to be, your war machine or your social safety net? You CANNOT have both, over the full course and flow of time.

[Odin2005]

44. You are equating the Syrian Rebels with Israel's BS?

[bigdarryl]

21. Iran just had a fucking earthqake do these people have any heart

[cali]

22. it's not going to happen

[Ken Burch]

26. I wouldn't go so far as "those people", but as to Bibi

he has no heart and no soul. The man just wants to be a tinhorn emperor. The world needs to demand that the Knesset display some life-saving sanity and remove this lunatic from power.

And those here who self-identify as "pro-Israel" owe it to everyone to be part of an anti-Bibi effort now. That man is putting the country they so passionately defend at cataclysmic risk. Benjamin Netanyahu is now the greatest enemy of Israel the world has ever known.

[gmpierce]

40. re: Bibi

Actually, he doesn't want to be a tin-horn dictator, he simply sees himself as the re-embodiment of King David.

It's a Zionist cultural thing. In the US, we would understand him better if he thought he was Jesus Christ or Napoleon.

[Ken Burch]

42. If he left it at going after Ahmadinejad with a slingshot, I'd be fine with that.

Last edited Sun Aug 12, 2012, 01:22 AM - Edit history (1)

He needs to give this shit a rest. Agreed?

[AntiFascist]

43. Are you familiar with the PNAC paper:

"A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm?" I would hope that many Israelis would be offended that a right-wing extremist think tank can attempt to define their cultural beliefs.

[Odin2005]

46. Israel's electoral system makes the RW fringe parties there very powerful.

[Panasonic]

55. I am pro-Israel

but anti-Bibi and anti-Likuds.

My sister lives in Efrat, Israel with her husband and 4 kids. I worry about them daily.

I'm still trying to find a flight to Israel to celebrate my nephew's bar mitzvah this coming November.

[Ken Burch]

58. Good for you, and I hope you find that plane ticket.

n/t.

[mysuzuki2]

23. I hope Pres Obama calls up Netanyahu and tells him "no you won't!"

[ann---]

28. They are nothing but

idiots.

[LeftishBrit]

29. More sabre rattling, just like both Israel and Iran have been doing for the last 10 years

One day it might be a real 'wolf', but I somehow doubt that this is the time.

[formercia]

34. All Israel needs now is a No Fly Zone over Syria

for a straight shot to Iran.

[mazzarro]

36. So Syria's troubles is a convenient excuse for US and the west to make way for Israel

They will declare a no fly zone over Syria thus making it easy for Israel to flyover the country on their bombing foray? And then if Iran retaliates, the western world will jointly condemn Iran for fighting back.

[Selatius]

68. There is no straight shot. You still have to cross over Iraqi airspace to reach Iran.

When Israel blew up the Osirak-class nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, they flew through Jordanian airspace directly into Iraqi airspace.

A strike on Iran would likely again include going through Jordanian airspace and Iraqi airspace to hit targets deep inside Iran. That route is the shortest route in terms of conserving fuel and is well within the operating range of F-15s that were sold to Israel.

[The Second Stone]

35. Dangerous warmongering bullshit

Iran is a long way from Israel. They would need to conduct precision strikes, which would not be benefited from a public announcement like this. If Israel doesn't have stealth aircraft, it is unlikely that they will be able to insure a complete success. The early 80s strike on Iraq's program was a complete surprise, and it was a lot closer to Israel.

[Jessy169]

59. Does Israel even have the military capability to pull this off alone?

Good points, TSS. That was my first thought when I read this article. Without American stealth aircraft and a lot of those precision guided super-bunker busters along with all the needed logistical support, how does Israel think it can pull off an effective strike? They've just blown their secrecy on this plan, and that was the only thing they had going for them without direct American participation. I just don't see how they could do it on their own.

[Selatius]

69. They have the capability of flying into Iranian airspace. Yes.

The F-15s that the United States sold to Israel incidentally have the operating ranges necessary to reach Iran.

In 1981, an Israeli formation of F-15s and F-16s flew close to the ground below radar detection all the way through Jordan and into Iraq to blow up the Osirak-class nuclear reactor just south of Baghdad that Iraq had bought from France. Israel claimed the reactor was for military purposes. In this case, they would be flying through Iraq entirely into Iran.

Likely, the bunker busters that Israel would use were developed locally from designs that the United States uses for its own bunker busters if not the specific bunker busters the United States uses directly. Coupled with the aircraft that Israel possesses and a corps of highly skilled pilots, a strike could be pulled off. Israeli pilots rank among some of the best in the world, and they have likely rehearsed this kind of operation in case the order comes from up top to strike.

However, I doubt such a strike would be able to totally stop Iran, and in the long-run, it will likely only convince Iran to continue its enrichment program despite the delays. The political and economic costs of such a strike would far outweigh any benefit gained from delaying Iran's nuclear program. The energy price spike alone would drive the United States back into a major depression.

[darkangel218]

39. I hope this isnt true

I can't even fathom yet another war, thousands of inocent lives taken away for absolutely no reason at all :'(

[Odin2005]

41. Bibi is a Nut-n-Yahoo.

Is he INSANE???

[agent zero]

45. Sounds crazy to me. I hope the United States is not going along with this...

It says we are opposed, but of course just saying we are opposed to it without saying what our response will be is not so much opposing. is it?

[Katashi_itto]

49. If Israel, wants to be own their own they will attack.

If losing, Iran would likely put that atomic to good use and nuke it's own refinery complex area. That would Nuke the worlds economy in one blow.

[Fozzledick]

50. Iran’s nuclear program designed to ‘finish off’ Israel, Hezbollah MP says

Source: The Times of Israel

The entire equation in the Middle East will change, Walid Sakariya tells al-Manar TV
By Ilan Ben Zion August 9, 2012, 4:24 pm

Hezbollah MP Walid Sakariya told Lebanese television this week that the nuclear weapon Iran is allegedly developing is intended to annihilate Israel.

In a segment recorded and translated by MEMRI (the Middle East Media Research Institute), Sakariya, also a retired general, told his interviewer on Hezbollah’s al-Manar TV Tuesday that should Iran acquire a nuclear weapon it would serve Syrian as well as Iranian interests, namely the eradication of the Jewish state.

“This nuclear weapon is intended to create a balance of terror with Israel, to finish off the Zionist enterprise, and to end all Israeli aggression against the Arab nation,” Sakariya said.

“The entire equation in the Middle East will change,” he asserted.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-nuclear-program-designed-to-finish-off-israel-hezbollah-mp-says/

[lovuian]

51. WWIII is coming

I hope this is wrong but it seems that TPTB wants to bring the world to the precipice

God have mercy on their souls

[polly7]

52. If anyone should know about hiding nukes, it's Israel.

No surprise they haven't themselves signed onto the NPT or allowed IAEA inspections ........ their nuclear arsenal is still supposed to be some sort of secret, isn't it?

Their hypocrisy and the dishonesty in all of this really makes me sick.

[Panasonic]

54. As usual. Saber rattling.

Been doing that since the Intifada, and nothing has changed.

I hope Bibi and his Likudniks loses the next election and Kadima is a faded memory, and Labor returns to power.

[nanabugg]

57. Look out for a black-bag job by the IDF to make it look like Iran did it. nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

60. Is this Netanyahu's formal endorsement of Romney?

Sure looks like it to me.

[sad sally]

66. From the IrishTimes yesterday:

snip

The Yedioth article said, without citing sources, that some government advisers in Israel and the US believed a pre-November strike might “embarrass Obama and contribute to Romney’s chances of being elected”. Yedioth said the aim of an initial Israeli attack on Iran could be to trigger an escalation that would draw in superior US forces – but described Mr Barak as dismissive of this theory.

“He believes that America will not go to war, but will do everything in its power to stop it. It will give Israel the keys to its emergency [munitions] stores, which were set up in Israel in the past. Israel needs no more than this,” Yedioth said.

Mr Netanyahu, apparently trying to avoid being seen as meddling in US politics, has voiced gratitude for bipartisan support of Israel in Washington, while insisting his country remains responsible for its own security.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0811/1224321995773.html

[TomClash]

63. I made two predictions in the past year

An Israeli attack before election day was one of them.

Haaretz has several articles on this today.

[Taverner]

70. Peace is not profitable for either side

War is big bucks

It keeps the money coming in

Neither Hamas, The Palestinian Authority or Israel give a rat's ass about anyone but their own sorry asses