'Nazis go home!' Fights break out at Michigan State as protesters, white supremacists converge for R

[Eugene]

Source: Washington Post

By Simon D. Schuster and Susan Svrluga March 5 at 5:35 PM

EAST LANSING, Mich. — Fights broke out between white supremacists and protesters Monday as anti-fascist activists, students and community members converged in and around Michigan State University to counter a planned speech by white nationalist Richard Spencer.

Hours before the speech was to begin, police blocked access to the venue as protesters, including some masked antifascists, gathered outside and hundreds marched toward the venue shouting, “Nazis go home!”

Scuffles broke out and punches were thrown as some of Spencer’s supporters and people planning to attend the two-hour speech arrived on campus near protesters. People shouted obscenities at white supremacists and at police. Supporters of Spencer were forced by protesters away from the pavilion where Spencer was to speak.

More law-enforcement officers arrived, lining both sides of the road leading into the venue, snapping cuffs on people and restoring calm.

-snip-



Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/05/michigan-state-braces-for-white-nationalist-speech-as-protesters-converge/

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Full title: ‘Nazis go home!’ Fights break out at Michigan State as protesters, white supremacists converge for Richard Spencer speech

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. They are home, home of trump.

Trump and the GOP have made Nazi's to be OK and common place.

[mountain grammy]

2. Nazis go home!

Shit, the problem is, they are home and they have a president.

[bluestarone]

3. Nazis's in the white house Nazis's in the congress

What a country huh?

[ProudLib72]

4. We used to kill Nazis. Now we protect them

[Gore1FL]

15. The seeds were planted and nurtured here for political expediency. nt

[ProudLib72]

16. As a man sows shall he reap... let us hope

By which I mean Nazism is not a beast to be contained and exploited only when needs arise.

[Initech]

5. Fuck Nazis, fuck Nazi sympathizers, fuck white supremacists, fuck white nationalists.

Fuck 'em all!

[RandomAccess]

6. I'm sorry. I've thought about this a lot.

Sometimes our "freedoms" impose on one another. And sometimes our values as well. And that means we have to pick and choose.

Let me give an example. A long time ago I was terribly conflicted about whether to allow my older teenage son to go off in the wilderness by himself (or with a friend) to pursue the type of science-related research he was so committed to. I finally realized that my indecision -- so very painful for me and a PITB for him -- was due to the fact I had two conflicting values that in my mind defined "a good mother":

1. A Good Mother protects her son and
2. Encourages and enables him to pursue his dreams and passions.

Once I realized that my dilemma was due to dueling values, it was easier for me to come up with ways I could honor both at the same time. My compromise: He could go IF he had a friend go with him, and also IF he called me at least once a day. (Dear God how much easier that would have been had we all had phones back then, but we didn't. They'd not be available for another decade or so.) Fortunately we all lived through this experience. LOL.

So -- here we as a nation also have a conflict between our values:

1. First Amendment protects petty much all speech
2. We fought the Nazis as enemies in WWII. Why are we protecting them and their "right" to hate speech now?

I think it's time to think long and hard and come up with some other ways of dealing with this. There is nothing socially or otherwise redeemable about Nazi ideology and I think it's time we said so and did something about it. Germany did, and somehow they haven't devolved into anarchy and barbarism.

I worry that that White Supremacist teacher, age 25, who got booted from her job because of her podcast could be reinstated because of the First Amendment. No reason on earth, IMO, she should be but if she pursues it in court -- ?? Shrug. Would likely happen IMO because the First Amendment ought to triumph in such a case.

[Igel]

8. Why did we fight the Nazis?

Because of their ideology?

Oh. We acquiesced to the Sudetenland. We did nothing about Czechoslovakia. There was Nazi ideology in full flower. Utterly irrelevant to US politics. Even when they attacked allies, we didn't care. "Fine, capture Paris, round up Jews and Poles and gays and Roma."

We declared war on them, Germany and Italy, only when they declared war on us. It was outsiders versus Americans.

Consider that in Vietnam we were fighting socialists and collectivists. Should we declare war on them?

No. Because it wasn't them as socialists we were fighting, but as soldiers of an enemy state.

The N. Vietnamese socialists are not the same people as current socialists. The German Nazis are not the same people as current neo-Nazis. Who would they be fighting for? Germany, to secure Berlin's control over Kansas or San Francisco? I don't think Merkel's interested.

The socialist Americans and the neo-Nazi Americans are part of "we the people." Unless we want to start defining portions of the population as subhuman and disenfranchised. But we object to disenfranchising rapists and wife-beaters once they've served their time; in this case, we want to disenfranchise over politics, not actions.

[Red Mountain]

11. WTF?

We can't criticize? Since when?

Nobody is 'disenfranchised' when you disagree with them.

They can still vote.

When they advocate taking rights away from others or violence against same they deserve social censure.

Are you are suggesting we just sigh and shrug our shoulders?

[Jedi Guy]

13. Well, here's my take.

We can and should and must criticize them. We can and should and must oppose their ideology and call it out for all to see.

What we can't and shouldn't do is physically assault them. Like it or not, they have the right to express their views, unless they cross the line where it's no longer free speech and becomes incitement. This is established legal precedent, so until they cross that line they have the right to speak, and physical violence is not an appropriate response to protected speech.

[Jedi Guy]

12. Well said, Igel.

The whole idea that it's okay to commit violence against these people because of their politics is both alarming and nauseating. Like it or not, they have a right to their views, and a right to express them. Unless and until they step across the lines defined in law, they have every right to spout their nonsense.

The thing that bothered me the most, I think, is the shortsightedness of the people advocating violence. Once we do it, we cede the right to complain when they do it. If it's okay for us to use physical violence in service of our goals, then it's okay for everyone to do so. Once that precedent is set, there's no going back, and any method we use can legitimately be used against us in the future.

[catbyte]

7. I live about 5 minutes from the MSU campus; MSU Credit Unions and other places of business

were closed in anticipation of traffic congestion and demonstrations. I know there's an argument for the First Amendment here, but it gives me the creeps knowing that hate-filled monster is so close to my home. And WTF was with denying The Detroit Free Press & The Lansing Journal access?

[paleotn]

9. I know somewhere else they can go....

and it ends with two hockey sticks.

[NBachers]

10. I support the "Nazis go home" protesters; I'm glad to see 'em in the streets. No hand-wringing here.

[Bob Loblaw]

14. I hate the Michigan nazis