Tulare Police shoot and kill suspect during violent confrontation
Source: http://abc30.com
TULARE, Calif. (KFSN) -- Tulare Police officers shot and killed a suspect Monday afternoon, after multiple physical confrontations.
The violence has the community on edge.
Cell phone video of the encounter shows one officer running after the suspect before using his Taser, the chase continues with the suspect punching the officer, the officer then takes out his baton and swings. The chase then moves across the street where the second officer pepper sprays the suspect. Shortly after, shots are fired.
One witness didn't want to be identified but says he was about 30 feet away, caught in traffic caused by the initial altercation. "I didn't see him produce a weapon. I didn't hear an officer say 'drop the weapon' or anything like that. All the sudden, I see this officer pulls out his firearm and just 'pow pow pow' four or five times."
Read more: http://abc30.com/tulare-police-shoot-kill-suspect-after-confrontation-chase/3207780/
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)This guy was fighting (not just resisting).
safeinOhio
(32,677 posts)Wait for back up. What the hell, cops are paid by the hour.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)safeinOhio
(32,677 posts)to help restrain the person. Oh, that's right, you don't wait if the person is of color.
I don't think you'll find any training manual that condones shooting unarmed suspect that is fleeing.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Excuse me Mr. violent criminal. Can you hang out while backup arrives? Im sorry about the inconvenience.
Doing police work from a keyboard is so convenient.
3Hotdogs
(12,378 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Will the criminal wait for backup too?
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)profession.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)situation in many cases...fire them and prosecute them. We need federal prosecution as local DA's won't do their job often.
7962
(11,841 posts)In case you haven't noticed, a lot of bad people can be pretty large individuals. And this guy was actively attacking the cop. Maybe next guy will know better
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)Jaywalking maybe? Maybe the cop told the guy he would kill him...we don't know...maybe the guy was having a mental breakdown...but cops manage to arrest white guys with AR15...but an unarmed black guy is just too much.
7962
(11,841 posts)Then he assaulted a cop. Tough shit.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #22)
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Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)he didn't have a gun...and I for one would like to know why he was stopped...this entire incident smells to high heaven...and if a cop can't handle his job, he should go.
7962
(11,841 posts)You hear the guy doing the video say it; "Ohh he took it from him!" as well as see him grab it
At that point we cant see because of a car, and the cops drop him.
He couldve given up from the very beginning. But he chose not to. He already assaulted a bus driver.
brush
(53,778 posts)with those non-lethal weapons at their disposal who can't physically contain one unarmed man without killing him don't need to be on the job.
That's just cowardice.
It's two of them. They should be able to overpower one unarmed man.
End of story.
I'm glad the passersby caught the murder on video.
Police officers all need to be UFC fighters now. What happens if the two officers cant overpower this one guy? Should police travels in groups of 4, 8, 20? Whats the magic number that prevents police from being at a disadvantage?
brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Kind sir, do you mind holding off on beating me until backup arrives?
brush
(53,778 posts)Let him go temporarily. The police department has way more resources to find one guy than those two who couldn't contain the situation.
You actually think they couldn't find that guy later, with all those witnesses in broad daylight?
Where the hell was he gonna escape to?
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Why do you want to put more people at risk?
brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Is the panicked cop also a victim in this case?
brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Response to brush (Reply #39)
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Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)The cops had choices still. This is a easy one.
Response to brush (Reply #23)
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brush
(53,778 posts)Those two are obviously in the wrong profession and should get a desk job where they won't have to use the physical training they apparently missed.
Of course they'll get off.
And if it was a white guy there wouldn't have been a shooting. How many times have we seen this. It's been going on for centuries against POCs and is only evident now because of cell phone videos.
Cops have been killing black men like this forever, and getting away with it.
christx30
(6,241 posts)Talk to him. If he continues to resist, attempt arrest. If he resists, use non-lethal means. If he continues to resist, what then? Would you wrestle him to the ground? What if he has a knife you haven't seen yet? What if he grabs a rock and clubs you over the head? What if he grabs your gun and shoots you or your partner? I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. At some point, he has to comply. He's a dangerous suspect and he needs to follow the commands of the police on the scene. With the violence he is displaying, he's a risk to people in the area. What if he jumps into a vehicle and runs over a kid or slams into a minivan?
Where does his fate become his responsibility based on his behavior? Cops are lucky he just got a baton, and not a gun.
brush
(53,778 posts)helping his partner overpower him.
The two should have been able to take the guy down without killing him as they were both within feet
of him.
Guess they were afraid.
They need desk jobs instead of being in the field where things might get physical.
christx30
(6,241 posts)as you are pro criminal. But I know that the criminal should have surrendered. If he had surrendered, he'd be alive right now. Cops gave him orders, tried to use non lethals on him, and they all failed. There are so many things that could go wrong with physically taking him, like I mentioned in my previous post.
Cops are there to protect society, not individuals. The life of this violent idiot isn't as high of a priority as the people in the area he could hurt. You don't want to get shot? Don't be violent.
brush
(53,778 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 14, 2018, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)
Where was their physical courage?
If you don't know how to handle yourself physically don't become a cop.
Maybe this will help you to understand why the guns come out so quickly on black men but not on white ones.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10355933
pintobean
(18,101 posts)He became armed when he took the cop's baton.
7962
(11,841 posts)The person filming even says it. And a car blocks our view at the actual point shots are fired.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Much as the unarmed status of many victims of police brutality is ignored as well "when some have an agenda..."
Yet that particular corollary gets rationalized far more often, and by far more people. I can only guess it's a much more popular 'agenda'... regardless of how funny one may perceive it.
7962
(11,841 posts)Very few folks on DU ignore truly unarmed victims of bad cops.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... because those weapons can be taken from the "good guys".
7962
(11,841 posts)Guess we shouldn't arm cops either? Sometimes their weapons are taken by the crook
moriah
(8,311 posts)... worn by cops have far better security designs available to prevent a holstered firearm from being snatched than teachers who manage to shoot toilets because their carry weapon isn't holstered well enough to prevent accidental discharge dropping trou.
Rainbow Droid
(722 posts)I don't see how those officers feared for their lives. I never saw any point that their lives were in danger.
But they couldn't control him with batons and fists, so they shot him 8 times.
Did I miss something?
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Lets look at this another way. What will happen if it goes to trial?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)I seriously doubt that cops will end up being prosecuted for it.
safeinOhio
(32,677 posts)Professional Courtesy to not testify against fellow LEO.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)I dont know how he got to the point of following the guy, but once the guy starts swinging the officer is legitimately in danger.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Especially when it comes to interactions with the police.
It's no secret why that's the case.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)The origin of the event may or may not be about race. But once it turns violent, its much harder to say.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Of every time the police ended up killing some unarmed black person.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Accusations of racism.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Of institutionalized racism.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Did you notice the part where he was throwing punches?
christx30
(6,241 posts)The man was 40-year-old Robert Miller of Tulare.
Miller fired a gun then fled the scene in his truck, witnesses said.
https://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/news/2017/12/28/update-tulare-police-identify-suspect-officer-involved-shooting/987907001/
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)atreides1
(16,079 posts)Because after an "exhaustive investigation" by the office of the prosecutor, the shooting will be labeled as being justified!!!
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)The video vindicates the police. There may be questions about how they got to the point of where the police were following this guy. I dont know if there is video of that.
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)violation beat him down and/or shoot him.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)what about a taser...and he should have called for backup. I FIND his actions suspicious. And they don't get the benefit of the doubt from me...too much has happened.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)I agree that it is suspicious despite the video showing the criminal assaulting the officer. Any incident like this deserves scrutiny. We also dont know how things got to this point.
brush
(53,778 posts)without killing him.
Hate to break it to you but being a cop requires some physical courage.
The two of them should have ganged up on the guy and taken him down without killing him.
That was murder.
What do they do if they cant overpower the guy?
What is it called if he gets the better of them and maybe even kills one of them?
brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)But thats another story. Do you think the criminal will kindly wait for backup?
brush
(53,778 posts)witnesses?
Not rocket science.
Why are police apologist so quick to come out when a black man is gunned downed by a panicking cop?
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Why does the violent criminal get the benefit of the doubt but not the police officer responding to the call about a shooting?
brush
(53,778 posts)where was he going to hide in broad daylight with all those witnesses?
It was murder.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Im glad youre not a police officer.
brush
(53,778 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 13, 2018, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)
That doesnt make sense.
brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)The police officer needs to be dead before he can respond to violence against him?
brush
(53,778 posts)Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)Think Im wrong? Answer this to yourself. Do the police ever get the benefit of the doubt. If the answer is no, there is a bias.
brush
(53,778 posts)Now I'm done with you.
Response to brush (Reply #62)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)So expect strong push-back.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It's a painful reality.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And death is included in that defintion.
It also includes motivation.
Sorry to seem to be a knee jerk, but I have heard the term murder used incorrectly far too many times by pro-forced pregnancy advocates, and it needs to be carefully deployed.
brush
(53,778 posts)rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)and get a lawyer? Anyone at this point should know that if you use violence against the police, they will kill you. There's no 2 ways about it. You will not get away. You will not force them to back off (unless you have like 50 other armed people on your side). You will not win. The cops are going to kill you and you can bet they are not going to face any repercussions. "Oh, the guy was violent? Oh, ok. Screw him, you guys did the right thing. Sorry I held you up."
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)he gets angry and lashes out with violence. Hitting, screaming, biting, kicking. He says horrible, racist things. "You're useless because you're black." He's 11 years old.
After about 20 minutes of holding him down and trying to stop him from hurting himself and us, he'll calm down. But the bruises that my wife has are still there. The bite marks on my arms and hands are still there. He kicked my wife in the face on Sunday.
So psychological factors don't prevent someone from harming others. So it shouldn't stop someone from defending themselves from someone that violent. It's up to the perpetrator of the crime to surrender. If he's violent, it's not up to his victim to defend them both.
7962
(11,841 posts)I expect you'll be corrected by the many experts on how to overpower someone attacking you.
Or by my personal stalker!
With everything being recored these days, it IS possible to win a case against a city (although the cop likely still gets off). But it does you no good if you're DEAD. Surrender, take the video to your atty
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)One shot maybe, but they always have to unload when the suspect is a minority...
Response to HopeAgain (Reply #54)
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hunter
(38,312 posts)They are a danger to themselves and others.
(Obviously I have even less respect for "civilian" open-carry fools.)
"Suicide by cop" shouldn't be a thing.
Renew Deal
(81,859 posts)I essentially agree that people arent really really ready to use their weapons. This includes open carry wannabe heroes and people that want to arm teachers.
There is an argument to be made that this is another case where a problem was made worse by a gun. The criminal was wanted for a gun crime.
matt819
(10,749 posts)What is as frightening is that they do have the temperament to kill people and that this is their default mode.
safeinOhio
(32,677 posts)London and he would be alive.
IcyPeas
(21,871 posts)What I was thinking. America #1 .... guns.
7962
(11,841 posts)And also probably would've been a lot more cops on scene. Since its London.
EX500rider
(10,847 posts)They aren't all unarmed Bobby's these days.
safeinOhio
(32,677 posts)A total of 6 people were killed by police, the most sense 2006. I wonder how many were not armed?
Bayard
(22,073 posts)Will have to watch again.
The second cop looked more like an onlooker. But I don't understand why the tazer didn't work.
Tulare is a farming community. Mostly migrant workers. Looks to me like the cop didn't have much training, and just panicked.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)tazers and pepper spray may not have much effect on a meth head.
the cops tried spraying him but that didn't seem to work.
7962
(11,841 posts)Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)And comply.
What is with people who run or fight with police officers?
Stop listen follow directions how hard is this?
Jedi Guy
(3,190 posts)I see a lot of condemnation of the cops on this thread and very few people asking why the suspect not only didn't surrender, but chose to go hands-on with the officers. If you get physical with cops it's gonna end badly, and most probably not for them.
I don't have much sympathy for the guy. He chose to resist with violence and lost. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)But we would not be discussing this had he complied.
Jedi Guy
(3,190 posts)hunter
(38,312 posts)... he'll suffer this for the rest of his life.
That's the problem with guns. It's the "if you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail" rule.
Once the guy grabbed one of their batons the cops were done struggling with him. At that point they wanted to end the fight by any means necessary since the next item he grabbed might have been one of their guns.
That's the thing cops fear most during a struggle: the suspect getting hold of the cop's own gun.
In any case, I'm sure the cop will suffer psychologically over this, despite the certainty of most folks here that cops just can't wait to shoot a black dude. The vast majority of people can't just shrug off killing another human being. I'm willing to bet the cop will what-if the whole encounter, starting with wishing he'd called in sick today.
hunter
(38,312 posts)Therefore I need no gun.
I'm an idiot, especially when I was as a young man, so I've survived rough situations.
People with guns have threatened me.
I have some nifty knife scars on my right arm. Who needs tattoos to brag on? Cut by, but still nobody I'd care to shoot.
I've never been in a situation where me holding a gun might have improved outcomes.
Once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.