'Nazi Grandma on the Run to Avoid Jail' for Holocaust Denial Has Been Caught In Germany

[appalachiablue]

Source: The Independent

'Nazi grandma' who 'went on the run to avoid jail' for Holocaust denial has been caught in Germany.

Ursula Haverbeck, 89, has a string of convictions for Holocaust denial and once caused a despairing magistrate to declare 'It is deplorable that this woman, who is still so active given her age, uses her energy to spread such hair-raising nonsense'.

A "Nazi grandma" who apparently went on the run rather than serve a jail sentence for Holocaust denial has been caught and put in a German prison. Ursula Haverbeck, 89, had been due to report to prison to start a two-year sentence on May 2, but instead the authorities discovered she had vanished from her home in Vlotho, central Germany. Prosecutors ordered police to find her, and the International Auschwitz Committee expressed its hope that hunt for the alleged fugitive was being conducted "with high pressure".

She will now serve the sentence handed down to her in August 2017 for writing in a far-right German magazine that Auschwitz had been a work camp, rather than the place where Hitler's Nazis killed more than a million people. Although this is the first time Haverbeck has seen the inside of a jail cell, she had racked up a string of convictions related to Holocaust denial, which is a criminal offence in Germany. Her persistent denial of the Holocaust, which claimed the lives of six million Jews, has led the German media to call her "Nazi-Oma (Nazi grandma)".

As well as offering vocal support for former SS concentration camp guards, Haverbeck co-founded a now-banned right-wing "education centre" with her late husband Werner Georg Haverbeck, who was an enthusiastic Nazi party member before and during the Second World War. In November 2014 she went as far as lodging a police complaint against the Central Council of Jews in Germany, accusing them of "persecution of innocent people" who had denied the Holocaust. Until now, however, lengthy appeals and suspended sentences have kept Haverbeck out of prison, despite one despairing magistrate describing the serial Holocaust denier as "a lost cause".
That was in November 2015 when she was sentenced to 10 months for Holocaust denial, which is normally prosecuted in Germany under a 1985 law banning incitement to hatred.

While demonstrating outside the trial of former SS guard Oskar Groening, the bookkeeper of Auschwitz, in April 2015, Haverbeck had been seen on television declaring that "the Holocaust is the biggest and most sustainable lie in history." At the resulting trial she claimed that Auschwitz's status as a death camp was "only a belief", and challenged the Hamburg court to prove otherwise.
The exasperated magistrate Bjoern Joensson replied: "It is pointless holding a debate with someone who can't accept any facts. "Neither do I have to prove to you that the world is round." It was, the magistrate added, "Deplorable that this woman, who is still so active given her age, uses her energy to spread such hair-raising nonsense." But Haverbeck's far-right supporters still packed the court to applaud her...More.

Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nazi-grandma-on-the-run-caught-ursula-haverbeck-holocaust-denier-germany-jailed-denial-auschwitz-a8341876.html

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[MontanaMama]

1. JFC.

Deplorables are everywhere apparently.

[appalachiablue]

2. That comes through alright, even in Germany with its history and

laws against hate. What an incredible, monstrous woman, so too her husband and far right supporters.

[Stallion]

3. Well-See Ya

[sandensea]

4. I believe we all end up in Heaven, or something like it.

If so, when she gets there she'll be graciously greeted by some of the (many) people whose suffering she denied. She'll break down and cry right there and then, and be a better soul for it.

That's my belief anyway.

[briv1016]

6. This is really not okay.

While I detest her views and what she says, she has every right to say it.

[a la izquierda]

7. Not in germany she doesn't.

So unless you’re German, you can complain all you want, but it’s their laws, not ours.
Germans don’t particularly care for US complaints about their laws (at least the Germans I know).

[Utah Grizzlee]

8. Ditto

Her mind is clearly FUBAR, and not because of age, but hateful bigotry. But, as a First Amendment fanatic, I cannot celebrate this.

[leftynyc]

21. How about respecting

the fact Germany has their right to institute their own laws instead of insisting everyone follow ours?

[Marengo]

22. Does not celebrating a specific law equivalent to not respecting a sovereign nations right to...

Establish it?

[leftynyc]

25. The person I was

answering posted "this is not okay" as if Americans should be the judges and jury for what other countries base their laws on. If you think that equals respect, that's your right. Mine is to disagree. Strongly.

[Marengo]

32. An American has no right to be critical of another nation's laws?

[briv1016]

24. What about countries that put homosexuals to death?

Or stone women for "allowing" themselves to be raped? Sovereignty only goes so far.

[leftynyc]

26. That's quite the pretzel

you're twisting yourself into. Where in my example does anyone get killed or raped?

[briv1016]

30. You where saying countries have sovereignty to impliment there own laws.

What about these?

[leftynyc]

33. About SPEECH

And if you check out the thread from yesterday or the day before about "elders" in a place in India sentencing two vermin to situps for rape, you'll see how I feel about that. I can't believe I even have to tell anyone here this. You'll have to excuse me but I'm fucking disgusted you even had the nerve to question any liberal that posts here that question. We're done.

[GreenEyedLefty]

11. Given what I know about Nazi Germany and what precluded it,

The law makes a lot of sense. You can think the Holocaust never happened in your head all you want, you just can't proclaim it. The danger of extremism taking hold again is clear and present, hence the vigilance around keeping the memory of the Holocaust alive.

[paleotn]

13. Rights have limits....

They extended to the point at which they damage and /or infringe on the rights of others. And given Germany's history, Nazism IS a clear and present danger to the people of Germany.

[appalachiablue]

19. Not in Germany with their laws, thus many charges against Frau Haverbeck.

Civil law jurisdictions, Germany

Volksverhetzung "incitement of the people" is a legal concept in Germany and some Nordic countries. It is sometimes loosely translated as sedition, although the law bans the incitement of hatred against a segment of the population such as a particular race or religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition

[appalachiablue]

23. Ursula Haverbeck, b. 1928 has a background that includes

Last edited Wed May 9, 2018, 11:14 PM - Edit history (1)

higher education and decades of activism and nationalist advocacy working with her husband, a former Nazi Party official, author and publisher. Haverbeck continues the couple's avid promotion of speeches and publications and associations with groups espousing right wing extremist views, revisionist history and Holocaust denial.

Video, 2015 Haverbeck disputes the Holocaust which occurred when she was a teenager living in No. Europe. She also advocates a review for persons who were 'wrongly punished' for Nazi Holocaust crimes during the Third Reich.

- Frau Haverbeck, 2015. *Play, Then Click the 'CC' Button at the bottom, for English Subtitles.
Follow what she has to say.

- Wiki: Ursula Hedwig Meta Haverbeck-Wetzel (born 8 November 1928) is a German author from Vlotho, Germany. Since 2004, she has also been the subject of lawsuits due to her Holocaust denial which in Germany is against the law...
Her husband was Werner Georg Haverbeck (de), who during the Nazi period was temporarily engaged in the national leadership of the Nazi Party, founder and director in 1933 of the German Imperial Federation of Nation and Homeland (de), as well as writer and publisher, historian, folklorist and parson of The Christian Community. From 1982 he was also on the Scientific Advisory Board of the Ecological-Democratic Party (ÖDP) and party member.

- Life: Born at Winterscheid (today part of Gilserberg) in Hesse, Ursula Haverbeck-Wetzel, by her own account, lived in Sweden for four years as a homeland displaced person (Heimatvertriebene) from East Prussia and studied pedagogy, philosophy and linguistics, including two years in Scotland...
For over fifty years, Haverbeck-Wetzel worked in the political shadow of her husband. After her husband's death in 1999, she took over many of his functions including chair of the international adult education establishment Heimvolkshochschule Collegium Humanum in Vlotho, North Rhine-Westphalia, which they both founded in 1963.
The Collegium Humanum was first active in the German environmental movement and from the early 1980s openly turned to the right-wing extremism movement; the establishment was subsequently banned by the German Federal Ministry of the Interior (Bundesministerium des Innern) in 2008... She is a friend of Gudrun Burwitz, Heinrich Himmler's daughter.

- Right-wing extremism: Well before Germany's reunification in 1990, Haverbeck-Wetzel cultivated connections to right-wing political groups like the NPD (National Democratic Party of Germany) with the aim of a major national collective movement in Germany. This orientation intensified in the years following.

>It was probably via this path that around 2000 she became acquainted with the Neo-nazi lawyer Horst Mahler. From this she became active as member and deputy director of the "Society for the Rehabilitation of Those Persecuted for Refutation of the Holocaust" (German Verein zur Rehabilitierung der wegen Bestreitens des Holocaust Verfolgten (de)), which was founded in Vlotho on 9 November 2003, the anniversary of Kristallnacht. <
>Chaired by the Swiss Holocaust denier Bernhard Schaub. Additionally, almost all well-known Holocaust deniers, including Ernst Zündel (Canada), Robert Faurisson (France), Germar Rudolf, Jürgen Graf, Gerd Honsik, Wilhelm Stäglich, Fredrick Toben (Australia), Andres Studer, Hans-Dietrich Sander, Manfred Roeder, Frank Rennicke and Anneliese Remer were also involved in its establishment. The organization was subsequently banned in May 2008 by the German Federal Ministry of the Interior (Bundesministerium des Innern) on the grounds of being hostile to the constitution of Germany.

- Publication and other offences: From 2004–14: In June 2004, the district court of Bad Oeynhausen sentenced Haverbeck to a €5,400 fine (180 days at €30 each) for sedition. In the house journal of the Collegium Humanum, the Voice of Conscience (Stimme des Gewissens), she had introduced a form of denial of the Holocaust, together with the editor of the magazine, Ernst-Otto Cohrs. The two incriminated publication issues were subsequently confiscated by the German authorities.
In a subsequent issue of the Voice of Conscience it was again claimed that the mass destruction of the Jews was "a myth"...Another article by Haverbeck-Wetzel in the Voice of Conscience (November/December 2005) posited a thesis that Adolf Hitler was "just not to be understood from the believed Holocaust or his alleged war obsession, but only by a divine mission in the world-historical context." This triggered a renewed process for sedition, and in June 2007 another fine of 40 days at €30 euros each by the Dortmund Regional Court. Altogether a total fine of €6,000 (200 days at €30 each) was formed.
In June 2009, the District Court of Bad Oeynhausen found Haverbeck-Wetzel guilty of offending Charlotte Knobloch, president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, who had earlier publicly advocated censorship of the Collegium Humanum Holocaust-deniers tools. According to the 1 July 2009 newspaper article in Mindener Tageblatt (de), Haverbeck-Wetzel wrote in her open letter response for the attention of Knobloch, among other things, Knobloch should not "interfere in German domestic affairs", if Knobloch does not like it in Germany, then she could "return to her origin in Inner Asia", and: "You do not have to live in Germany - in this evil land, where, as you say, six million of you were gassed."
- Her open letter also contained hostility such as "Prepare yourself for the day of truth. It is near and unstoppable.", as well as "I warn you."..."If you continue as before, then a new pogrom could result, which would be horrific." Knobloch subsequently filed a criminal complaint, and Haverbeck-Wetzel was sentenced to a fine of 2,700 euro... More...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Haverbeck

[leftynyc]

20. No, she doesn't

Not in Germany. It's against the law in Germany to deny the holocaust which, since she had already been convicted of it several times, she was well aware of. I hope the twit never breathes free air again.

[EllieBC]

27. Sure. These forums are filled with people who want hate speech laws.

Except for us pesky Jews.

How shocking.

[Jedi Guy]

34. Also not a fan of criminalizing speech.

However, when in Germany, do ye as the Germans do. I can understand their reasoning for such laws, even if I don't agree with it. What disturbs me are the people who want similar laws in America. In my experience, the people advocating laws against hate speech define "hate speech" as "any speech I don't like, disagree with, or find offensive." I've even heard people say "What about my right not to be offended?"

[riversedge]

9. Substitute Trumps name in this paragraph and it

would fit nicely for him and his deplorable hard core fans (not for denying the Holocaust but for attitudes and behaviors).




...............The exasperated magistrate Bjoern Joensson replied: "It is pointless holding a debate with someone who can't accept any facts. "Neither do I have to prove to you that the world is round." It was, the magistrate added, "Deplorable that this woman, who is still so active given her age, uses her energy to spread such hair-raising nonsense." But Haverbeck's far-right supporters still packed the court to applaud her...More..............

[appalachiablue]

31. There's very strong resemblance and POV, can't miss it.

[marble falls]

10. Oma's got a lot to learn.

[Ron Obvious]

12. This sort of thing makes me really appreciate the first amendment

Most people (even in the US) don't seem to see that distasteful and unpopular views are the only ones that need defending.

Locking people up for being merely factually wrong and for thoughtcrime is not the hallmark of a free society.

[paleotn]

14. Until said views end up harming others....

and infringing on their rights. The distasteful view of racism was used to incite and organize other like minded "free thinkers" and lead directly to the lynching of black people all across the south.

Rights have limits and I find it interesting that some think only of their rights and give little to no thought of how their rights might negatively affect others. It's just all about them I suppose.

[LanternWaste]

15. I'm afraid I don't see a valid reason to defend hate speech.

"distasteful and unpopular views are the only ones that need defending..."

I'm afraid I don't see a valid reason to defend hate speech. Hate speech is not indicative of a free society, either; merely an intolerant one-- and freedom, by its very nature, cannot rest on a foundation of intolerance. Adherence to any position predicated on absolutism (e.g., religion, politics, speech, etc) is inherently flawed.

[Ron Obvious]

17. Who defines what is "hate speech"?

There's the rub.

The Catholic church would certainly designate Galileo's views of the earth orbiting the sun, rather than the other way around, as a vile, hurtful attack on the sincerely-held religious beliefs of the majority. They'd probably call it hate speech if the term had been in vogue back then.

No government in history or anywhere on earth can be trusted to determine what views and opinions are valid, and which constitute "hate speech". Inevitably, hate speech laws will be selectively enforced and used as a cudgel to shut down points of view.

Muslim countries have been trying for years to get the UN to designate any criticism of Islam as hate speech and to prosecute anyone found guilty of it, and they're finding a lot of sympathetic ears in the anti-racism left for this idiotic idea.

I've no problems with criminalising ACTUAL incitement, but not with outlawing opinions and points of view. On that issue, I'm an absolutist.

[Jedi Guy]

35. Well said! 100% agree. N/T

[heaven05]

16. perfect example

of what's wrong with human beings. Her hate is old and set in concrete. Sad.

[Javaman]

18. she was alive during the war! she is just that fucking stupid.

fuck her.

[Yavin4]

28. If she were American, should would probably be a Republican candidate for

office some where or a Fox News guest analyst.

[appalachiablue]

29. The similarities are unmistakable. Maybe when the Frau is released

from jail her next gig will be with Fox where she'd fit in, or perhaps continue the rabble at some RW think tank. Lol.

Although Haverbeck might seem the gentile, educated Germanic woman misguided from supporting her avid Nazi husband, her background shows that even while on her own, since he passed in 1999 she's been one busy, nasty RW extremist. For a long time.

[BigDemVoter]

36. Sucks to be that old witch.