RNC Official: N.M. Governor ‘Dishonored’ Gen. Custer By Meeting With American Indians
Source: TPM
A progressive group called on Republican National Committee leader Pat Rogers to step down on Friday after emails showed him telling New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinezs staff that meeting with a group of American Indians dishonored Gen. George Armstrong Custer, the 19th century commander who killed scores of American Indians.
The state is going to hell, Rogers, who is a member of the GOP executive committee and is currently in Tampa for the RNC convention, wrote in a June 8 email released by Progress Now New Mexico. Former Republican gubernatorial candidate Col. Allen Weh would not have dishonored Col Custer in this manner, he wrote.
Martinez is required by law to attend the annual state-tribal leaders summit, according to Progress Now New Mexico, which called for him to step down.
-snip-
Read more: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/susana_martinez_custer.php
hlthe2b
(102,304 posts)HOnest to Gawd, I thought this was the ONION. How is it possible that these insane factions have a voice in our National politics?
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)that fucker needs to be gone. what the hell?!?!?!
yardwork
(61,670 posts)Custer dishonored himself and his legacy all by himself.
Berlin Expat
(950 posts)biggest tactical blunders in American military history, and he (rightly) paid with his life.
This was exactly how my father explained it to me when I was a kid. Or, as my dad put it, "Custer was an arrogant prima donna sonofabitch who got exactly what was coming to him."
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)about Custer when I was working on a Masters in Military History. He was right of course, as was your dad. Dishonored indeed - that's pretty darned hard to do when the party in question is George Armstrong Custer.
CanonRay
(14,106 posts)The crazy and teh stupid have floated to the top. Like pond scum.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Eugenian
(191 posts)I thought Custer dishonored himself.
jmowreader
(50,561 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)He was a conceited, incompetent egomaniac and racist.
Crazy Horse had more honor and nobility in his little finger than Custer had in his entire being.
jerryster
(715 posts)Shelby Foote wrote of Custer that his love of combat was exceeded only by his ache for glory. However, Foote also wrote of Custer's courage (he feared nothing) and his efforts during the Civil War. Custer LED his troops into battle, performed more than admirably at Gettysburg and was relied on by no less a presence than Phil Sheridan. And Custer fought for the Union so that's honor for me.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)mentally , they are stuck in the stone age . Go back to your cave , repukes .
Siwsan
(26,276 posts)And, how the hell can anyone 'dishonor' Custer. I think he did a pretty good job of doing that to himself.
This twerp is confused about who lived in New Mexico, FIRST??? And Custer didn't fight in New Mexico????
I need more wine. A LOT more wine.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)because parts of this country are going insane, IMO
tclambert
(11,087 posts)Custer fought for the North in the Civil War, then served in Kansas and the Dakota Territory in the "Indian Wars." He was never near New Mexico.
Siwsan
(26,276 posts)Unfortunately, typing doesn't reflect inflection.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,013 posts)It's also difficult to write satire when so much news sounds like it, as you say. Hard to for satire to compete with the news when there are so many uneducated ignorant people running around and running and running things.
Karmasue
(95 posts)I feel that way more and more these days.....
What?
no wine smiley? Awww man.
*sigh*
drm604
(16,230 posts)The real world is more and more like an Onion article. This is a friggin RNC leader.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...a mass-murderer.
- This must be one of those Republicans who were educationally ''left-behind.''
K&R
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Just like the GOP supports those who bomb abortion clinics, kill gays and rape women. Same mentality that wanted to ship all blacks back to Africa, shoot Mexicans at the border, etc.
They don't like the laws, so they are going to break them until they have no meaning whatsoever. And the Governor ought to reconsider her political party affiliation, too.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)By which I mean the WHITE people!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)flyingfysh
(1,990 posts)And make it retroactive by something over 500 years. Then those English, Germans, Spanish, Italians, Irish, etc would have to return, and we (peoples such as Choctaws, Cherokee, Sioux, etc, etc) could get the place back and live without these invaders.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...as they are a cancerous growth. And mainstream Repukes would love to cut that growth off their body, just as long as they could still get their votes somehow.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)Unbelievable. OTOH that should put Oklahoma in play.
avebury
(10,952 posts)Okies would vote for Hitler and Stalin if they were alive and on the Republican ticket.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)custer`s battle was`t in new mexico,custer was an idiot,and i thought the Indian Wars were over.
formercia
(18,479 posts)You can only see it if you stick your head in there and wait for your Anus to reduce the blood flow to your Brain and you begin to see Stars.
txwhitedove
(3,929 posts)HCE SuiGeneris
(14,994 posts)Too f'n funny!
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)wondered how that works. Thanks for the instructions/description.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)Stupidity that requires a different dimension.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="green" face="Verdana"]These ignorant goons don't even try to hide their hatreds anymore, do they?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="green" face="Verdana"]Utterly shameful. They're shameless.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Who commited those crimes on so many people and got away with it are still out there. They have got something bad wrong with them. Just think about all that walking among us every day.
They are just as proud as the KKK who killed those innocent little girls in the church in Birmingham. Those of that mentality have not repented, they have not grown. Their way of thinking and living is what we are seeing exposed now.
It's mortifying to know nothing of the history of the last half century or more moved their hearts. This is a huge problem. And by sickening I mean, their filth is on us all now. And they are committed to it.
I remember when I first heard Rush on the airways in the early 1990s. He had that much too familiar, swarmy tone of voice as the old time KKK and CoCC had back in the day. They have not reformed but the fact that there is a black man in the White House brought them out of their lairs.
We were deluded into thinking they had changed. And that's a long time there.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)It's getting out of hand.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)alterfurz
(2,474 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)this is the true colors convention. UGLY!
yellerpup
(12,253 posts)As far as dishonor is concerned, he did that to himself, starting at West Point where he graduated last in his class. Way to rock the NDN vote!
Not to mention being a genocidal maniac.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)He was trying to eradicate the Native Americans.
april
(1,148 posts)Smilo
(1,944 posts)he is responsible for the slaughter of innocent children, women and men, including the men under his command.
As for meeting with Native Americans - it was their country before the white man set foot here - the Canadians have it right by calling Native Americans - First Nation.
Why is the GOPT so full of asswipes?
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)According to Indian oral lore, said to have been felled by a woman.
wryter2000
(46,051 posts)They kept us alive when we first got here. For crying out loud!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Custer did the real dishonoring, he dishonored life, just as the gop dishonors life. Crazy bastards!
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)PB
dflprincess
(28,080 posts)And probably closer to the truth than the history books ever told us.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)Lint Head
(15,064 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Iggo
(47,561 posts)They were inevitably going to turn on her. It's what they do.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)according to republicans
A new reality show: Stupidest Republican ....... so many contestants, so little time
Lebam in LA
(1,345 posts)devoted to dropping these idiots on their heads and causing brain damage?
catbyte
(34,412 posts)Custer had it coming. Along with all the other God's Will Manifest Destiny bastards who tried to genocide my ancestors, but we're still here, shithead.
Diane
Anishinaabe in MI
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)part man all 86
(367 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)... though, that noble beast had nothing to say about what you did!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,322 posts)It call the governor (and, since it's in the plural, her staff - or perhaps the people who passed the law saying this yearly summit is compulsory) "Quislings, French surrender monkeys, secret supporters (all along) of JAJ"
'JAJ' being a Republican Congressional candidate that he apparently doesn't like. So, as ProgressNow says, "In a single line, Rogers manages to offend the French, Norwegians, his own party's congressional nominee and Native Americans".
This really does sound like a man off his meds. What next - a call to break diplomatic relations with Canada over the War of 1812? Rallying the South to rise again in favour of slavery?
Enrique
(27,461 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 24, 2012, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)
the white man won, he can relax.
edit: the email appears to be a joke. After Googling him, it seems Pat Rogers is not a mentally ill person that believes the Native Americans are the enemy, he is a loudmouth lawyer and GOP operative that thinks he is funny.
nolabear
(41,987 posts)If they're trying to just render us speechless and disoriented by the constant barrage of unimaginably primitive statements in recent memory they're doing a fine job of it by me.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,013 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)I say let's do it!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)indivisibleman
(482 posts)Custer dishonored himself by carrying out this stupid errand.
Can we please leave issues from the 1800s in the past now?
This is the 21st century and I would hope that our government and the Native Americans will have learned by now how to work out better more amicable relations.
Again, this is further proof that today's GOP lives in the 18th and 19th century.
elbloggoZY27
(283 posts)Wow! This is really revisionist baloney. The land that the Indians lived on for centuries here in North America was stolen from them.
Vogon_Glory
(9,122 posts)What a tool! Does Rogers think that New Mexico is a re-fried Dixiecrat enclave with a lot of "furriners" and a handful of white guys?
And furthermore, as embarrassing as it may be for us DU'ers, Custer had been planning to run for President in 1876 on the Democratic ticket. Pat Rogers would have been smarter to keep his big bazoo quiet about the skeleton rattling around in the other party's closet.
Another reason to vote against Tea-publican bozos (As if we didn't have multitudes of reasons to vote against them already).
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)brush
(53,794 posts)Can they get any crazier than that? George Custer, the one filled with hubris who thought he could defeat a force ten times the size of the one he commanded, is being dishonored? Hah! Custer dishonored himself with his foolish miscalculation. The repugs have really gone off the deep end by dredging up 140-year-old incidents to criticize a sitting governor doing her duty. And she's a Republican. Good God! Where do they get these foolish men to put in such high positions.
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)If not, The Onion staff writers must have infiltrated Carl Rove's staff, or some other chief strategist. This is truly stupefying. Is there any non-white ethnicity Repubs aren't going to offend before November?
abq e streeter
(7,658 posts)And still apparently not right wing enough for some republiCONS
Faygo Kid
(21,478 posts)They sure are focused on jobs, aren't they?
Hestia
(3,818 posts)just in order to get their name in the media and out front to their fellow nuts? Think on it - good scotch, cigars, and the "brainstorming" session begins. They get drunk and everything sticks and they run with it. No press is bad press school of thought? Seriously, now this shit does sound made up and they do have their toadies reporting back, for ill or for good. The entire GOP could not have flunked 9th grade history unless "they" are actively combing the backwoods ala Deliverance looking for every grade school dropout.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)This guy, Atkin, Allen West, Bachmann. It may have to go further than a commercial.
obxhead
(8,434 posts)Really? Custer?
I really don't think an emoticon can properly express my opinion on this one.
liberal N proud
(60,338 posts)thucythucy
(8,080 posts)when Mittens went to London to meet the British?
This HAS to be a spoof. I mean really, Custer?? CUSTER???
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)against Native Americans. He needs to have his citizenship revoked retroactively.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)they'll run on finishing the ethnic cleansing started by Columbus and continued through the trail of tears, the sand creek massacre, and wounded knee.
People have mostly figured out muslims aren't the super booger man conservatives claimed they were, so it's time to go back to an old stand by.
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)You don't have to keep demonstrating it on a daily basis. We know.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)The Republicans are acting just like their hero. They know they're going down, so they want to destroy as many innocents as they can before they let out what the foresee as their last cry and fall to their death.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)It's a serious, ongoing outbreak of batshit crazy.
Third Doctor
(1,574 posts)I think Custer was killed while trying to attack a village he thought was populated by mostly women and children (what he did in the past). He had no idea about the size of the village he encountered. He charged in without support(being a glory hound) as usual and came up against a far larger enemy than he anticpated. As a child I bought into the Custer's Last Stand Stuff but as I learned more as a adult I think Custer was hardly heroic. Anyone who would attack villages of old people and children deserves what they get no matter whose flag the wave.
Wraith20878
(181 posts)Custer chose not to listen to them. Moreover he decided to split his command into four different groups, that were sent into different directions for the attack on the village.These groups were then to far apart to support each other once the battle turned south for the 7th cavalry. His subordinates had no idea what Custer's plan was, if he had one at all. So Custer's 600 men were split into four groups to face a force of 1800-3000 angry warriors. The group under Custer's immediate command was wiped out, and the other groups were lucky to escape.
After the massacre at the Washita, a Cheyenne medicine man told Custer that if he ever fought the Cheyenne again, he would be killed. There were Cheyenne at the Village on the Little Big Horn.
American folklore made the battle out to be "Custer's Last Stand," when in reality it was more likely "Custer's last panicked retreat."
Arkana
(24,347 posts)What the fuck?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Monk06
(7,675 posts)sakabatou
(42,163 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)"Nah, they can't be *that* crazy" I'm proven wrong once again.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)What a colossal disconnect. Rogers should step down. I wish he could be deported too. Asshole.
sofa king
(10,857 posts).... He could have been George Custer. Narcissistic, sociopathic, user of terroristic practices, targeter of women and children, willing to sacrifice the lives of his men for personal aggrandizement, and also incompetent, opaque, and unable to properly assess the strengths of his enemy.
Custer died while defying orders, specifically so that he could win a massacre and take the "general's path" to the White House in 1880, a nakedly political maneuver designed to put him one battle ahead of all the other Union War heroes who were lining up to win the Republican nomination (like for example Rutherford Hayes, who would steal the election of 1876, then Garfield, Arthur, Harrison, and McKinley, who were all generals or colonels).
In the back of every good American's mind, there should be a small urge to piss on Custer's unmarked grave, because he represents virtually everything that was wrong with the Gilded Age. It's all the easier to see now that we're in the Second Gilded Age.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)There is still an active front in the War on Natives in the Amazon, and no one should talk to the enemy
Seriously, it often seems the Rs are no different than past racists responsible for the genocide of 60 million Americans. When will they learn?
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)they're usually less overt about it. Back in the day, folks openly admitted that they hated you for the color of your skin and they felt as if you're inferior to them. Many of today's conservatives smile in your face and then do stuff like go on the Internet later and voice obscenities. Meanwhile, the politicians themselves want to shrink our democracy via voter ID laws, and are quick to deny any racial intentions despite minorities being disproportionately targeted.
Botany
(70,524 posts)Do these jack wagons even think before they speak?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)dishonor Benedict Arnold.
WestWisconsinDem
(127 posts)...and he got exactly what he had coming. A murderer and blundering idiot... his defeat saved countless native people. So, of course the teabagger jackass wants to remember him with honor. He needs a history lesson from some of my Lakota family members.
PD Turk
(1,289 posts)I was getting excited for a minute, when I read the headline I thought Mel Brooks was coming out with a new movie
beac
(9,992 posts)Never let facts get in the way of your determination to charge into an un-winnable battle.
May Pat Rogers go down in history with the same infamy as his "hero."
WestWisconsinDem
(127 posts)...announce your position and then wade directly into the opponent's strength. Woe to anyone under that idiot's command. As a bumpersticker popular in Crazy Horse's territories says, "Custer was Siouxed"
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Here's a salute to him...
frylock
(34,825 posts)struggle4progress
(118,309 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I think I saw that in a movie?
WestWisconsinDem
(127 posts)he's on a roll.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)"Custer Died For Your Sins"
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2012, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)
All the lies that were spoken
All the blood we have spilled
All the treaties that were broken
All the leaders you have still
Custer died for your sins!
Custer died for your sins!
Oh, a new day must begin
Custer died for your sins
All the tribes you terminated
Or the myth you keep alive
All the land you confiscated
For freedom you deprive
Custer died for your sins!
Custer died for your sins!
oh, a new day must begin!
Custer died... for your sins
Custer died for your sins!
Custer died for your sins!
Oh, a new day must begin
Custer died... for your sins.
For the truth that you pollute
For the life that you have tossed
for the good you prostitute
And for all that we have lost
Custer died for your sins!
Custer died for your sins!
oh, a new day must begin
Custer died... for your sins.
Custer died for your sins!
Custer died for your sins!
Oh, a new day must begin
Custer died.. for your sins.
Custer diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiied!
Should be sung to them in Tampa.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)I used to have this on an LP, but it got 'lost along the way'.
Could I suggest one edit? In the third stanza, "compensated" should be "confiscated".
Thank you again. I did a lot of Native American Studies in college. I went to lots of pow-wows. I was shocked beyond belief when I saw this was a real statement above about 'dishonoring' Custer.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)aquart
(69,014 posts)Who on God's earth honors Custer?
LarryNM
(493 posts)She was essentially the hand picked candidate of Bob "swift boat liars" Perry and Corporatists because they knew Weh did not stand much chance of winning. She has not done the Rethug thing in her term like so many other R Governors simply because New Mexico has a Strong Democratic and Liberal presence, unlike her home state of Texas.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)It's not! Hahahahahahahahahaha!
yurbud
(39,405 posts)that gave us this great land."
Axiomat
(10 posts)From the assclowns who are still fighting the battle of the Foghorn Leghorn?
treestar
(82,383 posts)Haven't many people, governors or not, met with Native Americans? Every time that happens, Gen. Custer is "dishonored?" What for? How is that? He's been dead for over a century. And he lost a battle, it's not like he was murdered.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Romney just dishonored George Washington by meeting with the British PM last month.
Oh, wait, the British PM is white.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)WASHINGTON Mitt Romneys campaign has confirmed that the Republican candidate for U.S. president met with a group of tribal leaders on August 17. snip
According to multiple sources who are familiar with the Romney event, it was held in Boston. Many tribal leaders were invited, and approximately 12 were in attendance. Attendees reportedly stressed government-to-government relations and self-reliance that is outgrowth of federal-Indian policies of tribal self-determination and self-governance. snip
It was great to see Governor Romney set aside time to sit down and listen to a small group of tribal leaders at the very moment his campaign hit the afterburners and shot toward the convention, added Philip Baker-Shenk, a partner with the Holland & Knight law firm, who focuses on Indian and tribal issues. It will take many more such events for the Romney-Ryan campaign to catch up to the unprecedented Obama-Biden reelection campaign outreach to Indian country, but every journey begins with a big first step.
Eric Eberhard, a law professor at Seattle University who previously worked as a staff director on the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs for Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, agrees that Romney has much to do to catch up with Obama on Indian issues. The campaign website does not include any references to tribes or to issues that are important to the tribes, he said. I do not know of any plans by the campaign to hold events on any Indian reservations, or to try to organize anywhere in Indian country.
Read more:http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/08/22/romney-hosts-tribal-leader-fundraiser-130422 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/08/22/romney-hosts-tribal-leader-fundraiser-130422#ixzz24gW7SNTm
radicalliberal
(907 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 13, 2012, 05:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Is this Whackadoodle Season?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)What's funny is this whole "White Man Rule" has become a complete joke.
tama
(9,137 posts)Also my reaction: no shock, no angry indignation, just amused and taking pity.
mikekohr
(2,312 posts)Someone should remind Mr. Rodgers of that and also remind him that Romney demonstrated in favor of the Vietnam war but got 3 student deferments and a 4th, missionary, deferment and then palled around France with cheese eating surrender monkeys.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)On behalf of everybody else who has ever lived in Salem...I abjectly apologize...
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)He was one of the worst and bloodiest military leaders in U.S. history. He got his scalp handed to him at the Little Big Horn. What's to like?
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)This is a serious question. The party is acting like a bunch of rabid weasels. Since Citizens United created Super Pacs, any rich businessman in the US or any place else in the world can pay any elected official or any one associated with politics big bucks to say what he wants to hear. So, if some guy wants to muscle in on Native American casinos (think Sheldon Adelson) he could pay someone a million if they are national or $10,000 if they are just local to start bad mouthing Native Americans. And the person receiving the huge windfall of cash is likely to say to himself "Fuck the party! I want the money!"
Did Akin get promised a huge sum by the Catholic Church?
Did Romney pick Ryan because of a donation?
Since rich businessmen don't know shit about politics, they may well sink the GOP with their outrageous demands (and donations).
Or (and I sort of like this theory) maybe Karl Rove has lost it. Maybe he is the genius behind Romney, Akin, Ryan and all the gaffes. Maybe he is advising these guys on what to say---which would mean that the legendary Brain is short a few neurons.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)At least that's the impression I got from some of the initiatives that were proposed while I lived in Oregon.
One of the most active ones hated public schools, so he decided to found his own school. Paid for it all. Got a lot of Republican parents all excited about sending their kids there.
So the school is humming along, and Scrooge McDuck pays a surprise visit. What he sees angers him so much that he immediately cuts off all funding for the school.
What did he see? One of the teachers was teaching the kids about the solar system.
"How is learning about the solar system going to help them get a job?" he ranted.
I wish I were making this up.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)and still gets candidates elected.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)... or The Bat-shit Crazy Land forum. Or the We're All Fucked Group (protected).
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)She always has enlightening historical perspectives.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)First, let's remember that Custer defeated J.E.B. Stuart the first and every subsequent time they met. The Confederate cavalry advantage at the start of the war ended when Custer took the field. Giving him credit for doing this almost single handidly sounds like hyperbole. But the US cavalry had begun to retreat when Custer left the command post and charged the Confederates causing his command to turn around and re-engage the enemy to win that first battle.
As to Little Big Horn, Custer had a LOT of help in that screwup.
o Western Indian war parties to that point had been fairly small. Bureau of Indian Affairs estimated this was one of the larger ones, but less than half what it turned out to be. Custer was facing a force more than twice the size he had been informed. Larger than any war party encountered by the cavalry prior to that date.
o Western Indians generally did not attack cavalry in a stand up fight. They hit them from ambush, then ran to fight another day.
o An entire US Army division was supposed to be there, not just Custer. Custer had every reason to believe that division would showup at any moment. But the Lakota had ambushed the other division a few days earlier injuring their commanding officer. The division withdrew without even attempting to notify remaining US Army units of their actions.
o Whether Maj Reno could have followed the plan or not is up for debate. Probably not judging by how badly his retreat went. But he should have informed Custer instead of abandoning Custer. Custer, believing he was the vanguard of a division turned out to be just one company.
o With two other US Army divisions due to arrive in a few hours, all Custer had to do was keep the Indians busy.
o The Lakota had repeating rifles. Custer's command did not. And Custer was unaware of the Lakota's superior weaponry.
That last is pretty big. Custer was too outnumbered to fight a prolonged defense. But without those repeaters, he might have held on long enough for the ordered reinforcements to arrive. Reno had to hear the fighting and would have found his way to Custer had the fighting not lasted mere minutes. Custer would have had 4 times his numbers then. And those other two US Army divisions (actually, I think there were three others, but I know there was at least two) did arrive a few hours later.
Custer gets the final blame for not trusting his Indian scouts and for sending a non-English speaking messenger to bring up reinforcements. But it took a lot of errors by a lot of other people to cause his downfall. He wouldn't have even been there had the blocking division not withdrawn.
mikekohr
(2,312 posts)many of your points are not correct.
1). The encampment at the Washita was nearly as large or larger. There Custer divided his command into 4 units, killed approx. 80-102 people, mostly women and children., before realizing the rest of the encampment was coming. He abandoned the field and 18 soldiers under the command of Lt. Joel Elliot. They were killed to a man. Custer repeated these same mistakes at the Greasy Grass with different results.
2). Correct but they were learning not to run when a village was attacked. They counter-attacked at the Washita. Custer beat feet. They checked Crook at Rosebud. They counter attacked Custer and Reno. Reno recognized the situation, retreated (poorly) but survived. Custer remained in offensive posture until his right wing collapsed and panic ensued.
3). Terry's column was not due for another day. Custer knew this.
4). Custer had 5 companies under his command. Reno two. Custer saw Reno's retreat. Lakota sources indicate had Reno not vacated his position all of Reno's men would have been killed in the valley. Reno's men concurred with this assessment.
5). See #3. Crook had been checked a week before at the Rosebud but in any case he was not due at the battle site until the 26th as was the plan which included Terry's column coming from the north from the Yellowstone arriving on that date.
6). Custer was not outgunned. The Springfield 45/55 had an effective range of 300-400 yards. The 44 repeaters had an effective range of approx. 100 yards. Custer's delay on battle ridge allowed infiltration of his positions for hours. Cheyenne accounts expressed disbelief that Custer delayed along the ridge. They stated he could have easily rode back to Reno's defensive position. He never did.
7). Reno's survivors plus Benteen's companies, plus the pack train would NOT have had multiplied Custer's numbers by 4. There were approx 682 in Custer's entire column, 210 in Custer's 5 companies. Terry's division did not arrive until late on the 26th, the day planned for the convergence of the Custer's, Crook's and Terry's divisions, and 24 hours after Custer's 5 companies broke, ran and died.
Custer was a brave man. He had 7 horses shot out from under him in the Civil War. He also had the highest casualty rate of any general, North or South during that conflict. There is a fine line between bravery and recklessness. Custer crossed that line. Often.
Here is a link to the names of the 31 Lakota and Cheyenne men that lost their lives defending their village, families and land from an attacking invader: http://www.brotherhooddays.com/chicagotribune1.html
I urge you to visit it.
mikekohr
(2,312 posts)GEORGE ARMSTRONG CUSTER by mike kohr
After graduating last in his class at West Point and setting a record for demerits and reprimands Custer quickly proved his willingness to please his superiors and to succeed at any cost. Rising quickly through the ranks, Custer became the youngest man ever to attain the rank of General. His reckless bravado resulted in many Civil War victories but at the cost of troops under his command suffering the highest casualty rate in the war. 35). 23).
One specific incident during the Civil War would provide particular insight into Custer's character. In 1864, General U.S. Grant issued an order that stated that any men fighting under the command of Confederate Colonel John S. Mosby that were captured, should be summarily executed. The order, relayed through Union General Phil Sheridan, was ignored by all but one of General Sheridan's subordinates, and that lone exception was General George Custer. Custer captured six of Colonel Mosby's men in September of 1864 and had them shot to death on the streets of Fort Royal, Virginia. 34). Soon after the end of the Civil War Custer's ruthless behavior and naked ambition would be brought to bear against the Plains People.
Anxious to prove himself an "Indian Fighter," Custer was given command of an army with which he scoured the states of Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma, hoping to engage any Indians that he might find. During this command Custer had deserters shot without benefit of hearings. This in-spite of the fact that Custer himself on numerous occasions deserted his command to be in the company of his wife or to go off on hunting expeditions. In September of 1867 Custer was court-martialed and convicted of abandoning his command and having deserters executed. He was sentenced to a one year suspension without pay for these crimes. http://leav-www.army.mil/history/custer.htm
Ten months later General Phil Sheridan reinstated Custer to command a campaign against the Southern Cheyenne in Oklahoma. Desperate for action that would redeem his honor, Custer came upon a peaceful camp of Southern Cheyenne camped along the Washita River, on November 28th, 1868.
This encampment was nearby an U.S. army outpost and under the leadership of the "Peace Chief, Black Kettle." The lodge of Black Kettle flew a large U.S. flag identifying the camp as a "friendly village." Black Kettle was given this flag by the United States government and told that as long as it flew over his lodge he and his people would be under the protection of the United States Army.
Custer's scouts identified this small camp circle as a friendly village and warned the general not to attack. Custer ignored his scouts and ordered any man shot that attempted to prevent his plans for attack the next morning. As Custer planned the attack on the village he did not conduct reconnaissance of the village and surrounding area .
The next morning, November 29th 1868, marching to his favorite tune "Gary Owen," Custer and his soldiers attacked the village. The 67 year old Black Kettle and his wife Medicine Women Later, walked toward the attacking cavalry, carrying a white flag and calling out for peace. Black Kettle and Medicine Woman Later were shot down and killed. Their bodies and the white flag were trampled under the hooves of the horses and into the bloody mud, as the Calvary advanced on the village.
Black Kettle, always a voice for peace and accommodation with the Whites, was to be betrayed in his trust a second time. First at the Massacre of Sand Creek when his people were butchered by the Methodist preacher John Chivington and a second and final time along the banks of the river known as the Washita. One-hundred and three Cheyenne people, died there along with Black Kettle and his wife. Ninety-two of the dead were women, children, and old people unable to flee the advance of Custer and his troops.
As the Cheyenne warriors fought a rear-guard action to protect the fleeing villagers, Custer ordered a contingent of 18 men under the command of Lt. Joel Elliot to cut off the escape route of the terrified villagers. The Cheyenne were running in the direction of the rest of the strung-out encampment of Cheyenne and Arapaho people. There were, unknown to Custer because of his lack of reconnaissance, over 6000 other Native People camped further downstream on the Washita this day.
Lt. Elliot and his men rode into the face of warriors riding down to investigate the sounds of gunfire coming from Black Kettle's camp. As the sounds from this ensuing battle made its way to Custer's position, Custer realized he was in grave danger. He abandoned his position and left Lt. Elliot and his men without support. Lt. Elliot and his men were all killed.
Custer skillfully manipulated the reporting of these facts and escaped responsibility for abandoning Lt. Elliot and his men. Custer was hailed as a hero for his actions . The fact that he had knowingly attacked a peaceful camp of Indian people and murdered over 100 Cheyenne men, women, and children, did little to tarnish the luster of his growing popularity with the American People. After the massacre at the Washita, Custer was mentioned as a possible candidate for President by the press and many prominent politicians.
In 1873, Colonel D.S. Stanley, Custer's superior officer on a surveying expedition along the Yellowstone, would write to his wife about Custer, " [Custer is] a cold-blooded, untruthful and unprincipled man .... universally despised by all the officers of his regiment." 35).
Colonel Custer would, three years later, confirm Stanley's assessment of him. Blinded by ambition he recklessly unleashed an uncoordinated attack on a gathering of Lakota, and Northern Cheyenne People on June 25th, 1876 at the place called the Greasy Grass. Remembering the lessons of Sand Creek and the Washita massacres, the Lakota, and Cheyenne, fought back. Custer's ambition and reckless actions led 267 soldiers, 34 Lakota and 7 Cheyenne People to their deaths that hot day in June.
Colonel Stanley would eventually rise on his merits to the rank of Brigadier General. But history seldom mentions the steady Colonel Stanley and all but forgets his prophetic assessment of Custer's character. Custer would in defeat, rise to mythic status in Western history and folklore of that of a gallant American hero, and defy in death an accounting of his life.
Elizabeth Bacon Custer, the Colonel's widow, devoted the rest of her life, to a largely successful attempt to rehabilitate the image of her late husband. She wrote of her efforts: "There will come a time when tradition and history are so intermingled that no one will be able to separate them." 51).
Mrs. Custer lived until 1933, and died just two days short of her 91st birthday. To quote Robert Paul Jordan, " ....she remained George Custer's greatest admirer, brooking no detractions, singing his praises in three books. She described their military life and adventures simply and clearly and with something less than the whole truth." 54).
http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GEORGE ARMSTRONG CUSTER: