Cops called on women nursing their kids at pool, so dozens of breastfeeding moms show up to protes
Source: CBS News
Two Minnesota women who were confronted at a public pool for breastfeeding say they plan to file a discrimination lawsuit. And over the weekend, dozens of other moms launched their own, special protest outside the pool to support the two women.
Last Wednesday, Stephanie Buchanan and Mary Davis were in the kiddie pool with their children at the Aquatic Center in Mora, about 60 Miles north of Minneapolis. When Buchanan's three-month-old son, Roman, got hungry, Buchanan started nursing him. "A patron came up, a lady at the pool, and told me that I needed to cover up," Buchanan says.
Davis then started breastfeeding her child in solidarity. A pool employee asked them to cover up or move to the locker room. They refused and decided to leave the pool. That's when a police officer approached them.
"I said 'Minnesota state law protects me to feed my baby anywhere that I need to,'" Buchanan says. "He said, 'I understand, and I let the establishment know, but they reserve the right to ask you to leave.'"
Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dozens-of-moms-breastfeed-outside-public-pool-in-protest-of-nursing-women-asked-to-leave/
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LeftInTX
(34,015 posts)
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)1. Mothers feeding babies the way that mothers have always fed their babies....or
2. The establishment ...."...reserves the right to ask you to leave."
____________________________________________________________________________________
Since when is feeding babies more important than the "establishments rights"
I always thought that babies were about the most important people in the entire world. In fact, I was a baby once.......................
Oh well back to the concrete wall.......
3Hotdogs
(15,040 posts)Hungry babies? Bugger 'em all.
So frustrating, but so true!
truthisfreedom
(23,518 posts)I’m going with repuke.
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)Only "repukes" would start such a club......................
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)so called Christian City. Must have been someone form the Pointed Nose Club who objected. Small towns can produce some really interesting back-ass-ward stories.
Keep it ladies,if they can not handle nature,well give them a towel to pull over their pointed little heads.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)One of my younger 2nd cousins began feeding her baby. Not like at the dinner table and not really noticeable. One of my cousins, a male, commented that she should cover up with a blanket. Loud enough that the new(younger mother) could hear.
I politely offered to get him a blanket to cover his eyes. There was an awkward silence.
LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)by either turning around or leaving if it really offends them.
We have 3 little ones in the extended family right now. One preemie infant and 2 one year olds. If they aren't breastfeeding they are pumping and no one even gives it a second thought. You want to say something? Then ask if you can get the mom anything like water or her husband and his diaper bag.........................
LiberalBrooke
(573 posts)I plan to use that response in the future. Thank you.
MoonchildCA
(1,348 posts)... in a booth, nursing my baby, under a blanket, which was the norm back then. The waitress asked if I was nursing. I replied yes, and she told me I need to go do it in the restroom.
Um, no. We left and never went back.
Squinch
(58,388 posts)cstanleytech
(28,232 posts)I also realize children need to be fed and so what I would have done would be simply to remove myself from the area for a bit and return later.
After all its not fair to be asking a women to remove herself from an area to feed her child.
trixie2
(905 posts)How can that be? I do appreciate your idea though. I do understand that not all women find it comfortable to breastfeed around others.
cstanleytech
(28,232 posts)as large crowds can and have triggered severe migraines for me.
kag
(4,193 posts)As a migraine sufferer and a mom who breastfed, I appreciate your attitude. Feeding a baby is a necessary fact of life. If it makes anyone uncomfortable (like guys telling stupid porno jokes), then just walk away. Problem solved.
Thanks for being an adult about it.
3Hotdogs
(15,040 posts)cstanleytech
(28,232 posts)as for telling them.......I cannot recall doing so even once in the last 25+ years.
Why? Probably because of my mother's influence in raising me that such jokes like those are are generally tasteless and not appropriate.
That and to me good humor has usually been from sources like the Three Stooges, Abbott & Costello not to mention Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin.
3Hotdogs
(15,040 posts)explained that the practice was silly, inconvenient immodest and old fashioned. Seeing so much as a bra strap was also immodest -- similar to seeing an exposed ankle in 1900.
When I see a breastfeeding scene, I get uncomfortable. But that's on me.
Ilsa
(63,855 posts)realize it unless they have done themselves or been part of a breastfeeding family. It's kind of like not realizing that the "dude" in the next stall is actually a "chick."
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)(and you probably don't know this, since you're male) is cover with a shawl-like lightweight thing made specifically for this purpose. You can get them made of lightweight breathable cotton, so they're not too hot.
If it's too hot, then they would go indoors.
That's what women used to do. I've even seen a woman on tv talking about something while nursing. She was wearing one of those nursing covers.
obamanut2012
(29,178 posts)I have no idea why people sexualize women breastfeeding.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)In fact, I think you're forced to simply blame who you are as a person, regardless of gender. 
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)so they had to leave.
I don't think that's discrimination. They could simply have covered up. That's what most women have done in public historically. Makes me wonder why they wouldn't do that, if they wanted to stay.
The rules are different when you're on someone else's private property.
Farmer-Rick
(12,487 posts)Very likely yes. So, it's not feeding babies they object to, it's how the babies are fed they object to.
So, since only women have mammary glands to feed babies, they are discriminating against women.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Do they allow nudity so men can urinate freely?
Why do people care what rules other people have for their own property? It's like people being upset that YOU have rules for behavior in your house. Your house...your rules. If you want to ban UPS trucks from entering your driveway, you can. If you want to ban others from exposing their boobs on your property, you can. Others are free to create their own rules for their own property.
Your employer can ban exposing your boobs at work, too. So can the owner of the building that your employer pays rent to.
As for nursing, no, it's not necessary to expose your boobs to nurse. Women have been doing this for eons...there are nursing shawls just for that purpose. Lightweight, made of different fabrics...covers the boobs while nursing. And then you can go somewhere private.
Unless, of course, someone wants to expose her boobs.
Laffy Kat
(16,865 posts)The baby's head covers most of the breast and the nipple isn't exposed at all. If you see more than that you're looking way too long and then you're getting into the creepy range. Just look away. They do have those shawls you can use and if you see a mother nursing just put it over your head....or look away. It's a biological need specific to mothers and babies,so there's no comparable situations like UPS trucks in your driveway, LOL.
Demit
(11,238 posts)
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Classic!
Farmer-Rick
(12,487 posts)But aside from that fact, exposure of genitals is different from exposing a breast to feed a baby. Flashing and exhibitionism are Not associated with breast feeding babies. Most unwanted flashing of genitals is a passive aggressive behavior designed to intimidate, control and/or offend. And then there are those organizations and business that make money off of nudity and are strictly controled (even when it is done on their own property).
But aside from your inappropriate lumping of genital flashing with breast feeding babies, private property is not really all that private. So, according to your argument, if you own some land, you can do anything you want on that land because it is private. So, can you start a white slave colony? Can you dump poisonous gasses that leak all over your neighbor's property? Can you torture and abuse children? Can you grow cannabis or opium flowers? So, no you can not do whatever trips your trigger on your own property.
Then there are restriction on your use of that property to make a profit. By starting a business, you tap into all sorts of protections. There are limited liability laws, contractual legal enforcement, police protection from theft, military protection from invading countries...except Russia. There are roads and transportation facilities that allow you to bring in materials and customers. There are courts and laws that prevent your competitors from illegal activities that prevents fair trade. There are health regulation to prevent disease and create clean water.
So, when you open a business, you accept the assistance and help of the greater society. You benefit from all the work others have done. You benefit from the taxes everyone around you have paid. So, then there are retriction on private businesses because they benefit so much from everything everyone has worked for.
No man is an island and neither are private businesses.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Yes, the reason for exposing boobs is anyone's guess, unless you can read people's minds. There is really no reason for the exposure even when breast feeding. So anyone can assign a reason for doing it. And the reason probably varies with the person.
My point is simply...if it's against the law for the owner of the pool to have rules regarding that, then they either won't be removed from public view, or they will win a lawsuit.
I don't know whether the owner of this pool has private ownership rights the same as other pool owners. Let the law determine that. If it's a private pool with privacy rights, the owner has a right to have rules of behavior. We all have that right. And that's a good thing. If someone showed up wearing a t-shirt that says "Hussein Obama is a muslim terrorist," the owner could require the removal of that t-shirt from the area, even though in another setting, a person has a freedom of speech right to wear the t-shirt. The property owner has the right to control behavior & some forms of speech on its property.
One person's right ends where another's begins.
Farmer-Rick
(12,487 posts)Even if she has a blanket draped over
When a guy flashes his genitals in public, there are well researched psychological reasons for it. And when a person does a dance as they remove their clothes, there are only a handful of reasons for it. This is not rocket science. Nudity has pretty well established psychological explanations.
Feeding your baby should not be lumped in with getting a thrill from showing underage girls your adult penis. It is not in the same psychological framework.
For profit establishments only have the rights we people give them. They do Not have inherited rights to do anything including setting rules on their property about free speech if we people object to it.
Who died and made the profit industries arbitrators of free speech or rules on feeding babies? They merely exist in a capitalist world to make money for themselves and this is not some sacred responsibility that can only be changed with law suits. Using the court system to arbitrate people's rights is a cumbersome, distorted and slow process evolved to address the numerous failures of capitalism.
But for now you are correct. The only way to really stop a bussiness from establishing arbitrary and unfair rules in the business is to file suit...or apparently to have breastfeeding sit ins.
NickB79
(20,249 posts)Stay classy.
Red Mountain
(2,265 posts)From the article:
Minnesota law says: "A mother may breastfeed in any location, public or private, where the mother and child are otherwise authorized to be…"
The baby probably covered as much as some bathing suits these days.
They should sue. Somebody clearly broke the law.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Such a private concern can have its own behavior rules.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)And is listed on the city's web site:
https://www.ci.mora.mn.us/index.asp?SEC=F3C58808-0644-435D-879A-E5097A9A92D3&Type=B_BASIC
Breastfeeding is not mentioned anywhere in their three pages of regulations for the Aquatic Center:
https://www.ci.mora.mn.us/index.asp?SEC=F3C58808-0644-435D-879A-E5097A9A92D3&Type=B_BASIC
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)"Authorized to be." Your presence on someone else's property is always an implied consent to be there, which the owner can withdraw.
You have a right to be somewhere, if the owner allows it, and if you abide by the rules.
Your school, your work, business owners, department stores...they all have the right to dictate rules of behavior on their premises. If you violate those rules, the owners or their agents can require that you leave.
obamanut2012
(29,178 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)My rights CANNOT interfere with someone else's rights, and vice versa. The law dictates which right is priority at various times and various locations.
On private property, the owner has a right to control that property and the behavior of people on his property. That's a good thing. He can prohibit guns, even when legally carry people are toting guns, prohibit hate-speech garments, prohibit the exposure of boobs & other areas generally considered sexual, the wearing of shoes and shirts, require no hats, etc.
Whether this pool is considered private for those purposes is up to a court. I don't know. I DO know that it is possible to nurse without exposing boobs, so not allowing that does not prevent a baby from nursing. The prohibition isn't against nursing. It's against exposing the boobs.
Demsrule86
(71,492 posts)I side with the Moms...and have refused to leave the mall or stop breastfeeding arrest me if you dare.
Demsrule86
(71,492 posts)obamanut2012
(29,178 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)falls under "public property," such that the owner doesn't have a legal right to dictate behavior on the property.
Remember that the prohibition is not against nursing, which is certainly possible w/o exposing boobs. The prohibition is against exposing boobs.
The legal right to expose boobs while breastfeeding inherently pertains to places where the mother has a legal authorization and right to be in the first place. When you or I are on private property, we don't have a legal right to be there. We are there at the invitation of the property owner and can be asked to leave for no reason in particular.
If I go to your house, you can tell me to leave for any reason whatsoever. I don't have a legal right to carry a gun into your house, breastfeed there, or anything.
So it depends on whether the pool is private...like a members-only club.
moriah
(8,312 posts)Then there's the Minnesota statutes:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/2015/cite/145.905
A mother may breast-feed in any location, public or private, where the mother and child are otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast-feeding.
There's nothing about an issue of a private business in this case, and clearly the law says public OR private establishments.
With this being a City-owned facility, though, a discrimination lawsuit is much more likely to be won, even if it's a moral and not financial victory. Otherwise their argument would be the statute merely protects women from being criminally charged for breastfeeding but can be forced into/out of places they have paid admission to and are authorized to to be if they choose to breastfeed, not what the plain law says -- that a mother may breastfeed anywhere the mother and child are otherwise authorized to be.
I've known people, mainly men, who had major issues with breastfeeding grossing them out, but my father didn't have that reaction. He said, after nearly losing us both from a very complicated labor, that when he saw Mom first get to nurse me it was the most beautiful and natural thing in the world to him, it was something he'd never forget a sense of awe about. It did probably prove, in his mind, that we were both okay to see that interaction -- but he didn't say that specifically. Just that he never got the big deal, to him seeing Mom feed me that way was beautiful, totally natural, not gross, and that breasts were made for other reasons than his own admitted enjoyment of them.
Though perhaps being 20 when he saw their function really didn't care about where they were when it was time for a feeding -- Mom hadn't thought to wear nursing pads to the concert they went to that was their first "date night" after I was born, and well, they functioned about the same time I was crying and getting fed pumped milk at home -- made him understand the reality a bit more, too. Babies need to eat and breastfeeding bodies are very in-sync usually with their baby's schedule and needs. And the cues that trigger letdown don't necessarily wait for a great time. Women need to be able to nurse their children on demand.
NickB79
(20,249 posts)
PatrickforO
(15,347 posts)I hope every breastfeeding mom within a 100 mile radius comes by to feed her child at that pool. All at once.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Give your address, so they can go sit in your driveway barechested, for a sit-in.
Laffy Kat
(16,865 posts)obamanut2012
(29,178 posts)
avebury
(11,186 posts)women to be able to nurse their babies when the babies are hungry, one might make a legal argument that the law does not prohibit women from being asked to provide some type of modest covering when doing it in public. Modest covering hardly prevents women from feeding their babies. I would think that most people at a pool bring towels with them. If you are at a business/recreational area that is privately owned, the owners do have a right as to who they allow in their establishment.
What I find irksome is the absolute militancy and attitude that some women have towards the issue. They act so offended when asked to cover up and then claim they are being denied their right to feed their child which is hog wash. Asking someone to use a little modest covering is not telling them they can't feed their child. It tends to make me less sympathetic to their cause. You catch more flies with honey then vinegar.
Playing the "you are not going to tell me what I can and cannot do" card is something that works both ways.
ProfessorPlum
(11,461 posts)when she would breastfeed somewhere in public. That's just what she was most comfortable with. You'd be amazed at the number of people who still make noise about even that.
it's weird to me. People gotta eat!
obamanut2012
(29,178 posts)Breastfeeding.
Maybe I hate seeing men with moobs, and think they should cover up.
avebury
(11,186 posts)What I do have a problem is with any group who constantly go about whining about how picked upon they are. In this instance there are states where laws have been passed protecting the right of a woman to feed her child when the child needs to be fed. I have no problem with that. All the law guarantees is the right to feed the child when and where she needs to. It does not provide legal protection regarding how the mother is dressed during the act. Providing discrete cover does not provide any impairment to the breastfeeding act.
Considering the grave times that we live in, an issue like this isn't even close to being of my radar of issues to be concerned about.
moriah
(8,312 posts)The covers make it too hot/stuffy compared to the way they're used to feeding, so fuss and cry and don't get a good latch/feed.
What's more annoying than a boob in sight or people being "millitant" in their feeling that if there's a good latch less boob is showing than when wearing a string bikini?
A frustrated hungry baby screaming in public. Please, give the kid the boob and shut them up. Covered or not.
obamanut2012
(29,178 posts)Against women, and calling this trespassing, and invading private property: this was a public pool, not frigging Wolf Lodge or something. Not that Wolf Lodge doing this would be better, but that is a private business.
Women have a legal right to do this. Hell, women have a legal right to walk around topless in almost every state, and those where they don't would lose that legal battle in court.
Sexualizing women and their breasts is an issue YOU have, especially when those women are suckling babies.
THIS WAS PUBLIC PROPERTY
demmiblue
(39,255 posts)I can't believe some of the responses. 
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Amazing that on DU there are people arguing against women being able to perform this natural function and wanting it hidden or shrouded away.
EllieBC
(3,623 posts)Didn't think so. Breasts on display for male enjoyment = perfectly fine. Breasts for feeding infants = COVER UP YOU HARLOT!
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)Breastfeeding isn’t pornographic or dirty. It’s utilitarian and natural.
I can’t believe this is an issue. At all. Especially here.
EllieBC
(3,623 posts)Usually the infant's head is blocking most of the breast anyway. This is just people being upset that those breasts are being used for what they were intended for and not as eye candy.
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)Mothers are ahead of cops..
Yupster
(14,308 posts)Eating in the pool seems wrong. They could have left the actual pool.