Argentina finds lost submarine a year later

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press


Associated Press Published 1:01 a.m. ET Nov. 17, 2018

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — Argentina's navy announced early Saturday that searchers found the missing submarine ARA San Juan deep in the Atlantic a year after it disappeared with 44 crewmen aboard.

The vessel was detected 2,625 feet deep in waters off the Valdes Peninsula in Argentine Patagonia, the statement said.

The navy said a "positive identification" had been made by a remote-operated submersible from the American ship Ocean Infinity, which was hired for the latest search for the missing vessel.

The discovery was announced just two days after families of the missing sailors held a commemoration one year after the sub disappeared on Nov. 15, 2017.

Read more: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/11/17/argentina-finds-missing-submarine/2036290002/

[Beacool]

1. I'm glad that it was found.

At least the families will have closure. May they rest in peace.

[dembotoz]

2. Being in a sub for a not first tier military power

More guts than I got

[Haggis for Breakfast]

4. The sub was German made.

Believe me they know a thing or two about building submarines. The problem is how the boat was retro-fitted. I believe they will discover that mistakes were made by the method used to achieve upgrade.

As far as being a sub sailor -- well, let's just say, that they are a "unique" breed.

[Kaleva]

13. German made but operated, maintained and upgraded by Argentina

Budget constraints prolonged the mid-life up grade which took from 2008 till 2013 an was done in Argentina.

"The condition of the Argentine Navy’s submarine force is particularly poor. Argentine submarines spent only 19 hours submerged the entirety of 2012. A normal person would get rusty at driving the family car with only 19 hours behind the wheel each year. A submarine is far more complex than your Chevy SUV. With inconsistent operational experience and insufficient training and modernization funding, major accidents become probable, not simply possible."

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2017/12/13/lessons_from_the_loss_of_ara_san_juan_112775.html

Even by today's standards, the TR-1700 class is very good . If properly maintained and manned by a well trained crew.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

3. That's in some D E E P water

It will be interesting to see what they do from here: try to bring to surface (and it would be easier to figure out what exactly went wrong) and give the men a proper burial OR leave it all in place, make it a resting tomb, forbid diving and declare it a memorial.

I do think the families deserve some answers.

[NutmegYankee]

5. It imploded.

There are likely little human remains to be found. The implosion would have blown their bodies to smithereens and any remaining bone fragments would be extremely hard to dig out of the bottom mud/sand.

[Dennis Donovan]

6. Yep, just like Thresher and Scorpion, they'll leave the wreck in place. n/t

[marble falls]

7. Haggis got it right. Subs are not first and second tier. They are first tier or they are anchors ...

Things do go wrong and the calling the refit major is understatement. When things go wrong, they go wrong exponentially in a sub at sea if the rapidly compiling list of conflicting problems can't be stopped in an almost instant. In the case of an FBM nearing crush depth at a fairly low sub speed, it's literally measured in seconds. Scorpion and Thresher were not second tier, either.

[7962]

8. "..first tier or they are anchors". Thats really the perfect way to describe it. nt

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

17. I wonder if they were even looking in the right place a year ago? What a grim end.

[Submariner]

9. Argentina will probably send an ROV to visually inspect the sub hull

and see if they can find any rupture along the line where the hull was welded back together during the refit. That weld of about 1-inch thick steel is incredibly important. If there is a single flaw in the weld that weak point is what could let go later from too much outside pressure, or from an internal hydrogen explosion at depth.

Saltwater coming down the snorkel and somehow finding its way to the battery well would cause chlorine gas to form and maybe overcome the crew. If hydrogen built up to explosive levels then poor battery well ventilation from loss of electrical power could be thew cause. I used to add water to those battery cells, and there were always strong ventilation fans running, except during 'rig for silent running' exercises.

Sailors rest your oars.

[marble falls]

10. You can bet the USN will be part of the expertise required to suss out the cause.

I was out of New London. Where did you home port?

[Submariner]

11. Nowadays the DSRV and the ROVs with HD cameras will be able to inspect closely

Home ported up river from you in Rotten Groton. Rode the last of the pig boats '66-'69.

[marble falls]

12. The Hell's Angels of the Navy! Even the Marines stayed away from diesel boaters. I was mustering ...

PO for the transient quarter's, where a lot of you guys were put up. Sent new guys and jack asses over to keep it policed.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

14. Sweet Jesus.

Anybody who served on diesels has ALL of my respect. What a nightmare ! One of my friends served on one of the last diesel subs. When he came home (for good as he retired), he brought his ditty bag of clothes into the house to be washed and his new wife burned them in the back yard. She said that there was no way she was putting those things in her washer.

I served at Charleston NB and later in King's Bay. We were on one of the first subs out of King's Bay. It was little more than a dirt road through the swamp back then. First time I went down there I got out of the car, walked 10 feet and was covered in mosquitoes so big, they called for landing clearance. Corpsmen were lathering everybody in calamine lotion, we all pink for days.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

15. +1

Ahoy!

[Submariner]

21. As pig boaters we just smelled different

We had a different take on personal hygiene.

While the nuke boat crews wasted fresh water on things like doing their laundry, diesel boaters distilled our fresh water for the batteries and preserved the rest by wearing our socks and undies for 4 days before turning them inside out to wear another 3 days. But we loved those transient quarters where we could take 45 minute hot showers to wash away the crust.

We were wrinkled, unkempt looking and smelled bad, so the spit polished Marines with sharp creases in their uniforms had no use for us.

[marble falls]

22. Have to admit, it was like living in a basement. Life was pretty damn easy on a boomer.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

16. +1

Ahoy!

[Judi Lynn]

18. Argentina Finds Missing Sub One Year Later But Lacks Resources To Surface It

11/17/2018 12:52 pm ET

Officials are figuring out what to do about the sub, which had 44 people on board.
AP Staff The Associated Press

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — The Argentine government acknowledged on Saturday that it lacked the proper technology to rescue the submarine found deep in the Atlantic that disappeared a year ago with 44 crew members aboard.

Defense Minister Oscar Aguad said at a press conference that the navy lacks submersibles with “modern technology” capable of “verifying the seabed” to extract the ARA San Juan, which was found 800 meters (2,625 feet) deep in waters off the Valdes Peninsula in Argentine Patagonia.

He said that officials still need to determine the next steps.

Earlier in the morning, the navy said a “positive identification” had been made by a remote-operated submersible from the American company Ocean Infinity. The company was responsible for the search for the missing vessel and was commissioned by the Argentine government.

More:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/argentina-finds-missing-sub-after-1-year-but-lacks-resources-to-surface-it_us_5bf04f76e4b0b84243e2c595

[marble falls]

19. What it takes to raise a sub from that kind of depth is amazing, which is why it isn't ...

done very often:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Sailfish_(SS-192)

The salvage of Squalus was commanded by Rear Admiral Cyrus W. Cole, Commander of the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, who supervised salvage officer Lieutenant Floyd A. Tusler from the Construction Corps.[11] Tusler's plan was to lift the submarine in three stages to prevent it from rising too quickly, out of control, with one end up, in which case there would be a high likelihood of it sinking again.[12] For 50 days, divers worked to pass cables underneath the submarine and attach pontoons for buoyancy. On 13 July 1939, the stern was raised successfully, but when the men attempted to free the bow from the hard blue clay, the vessel began to rise far too quickly, slipping its cables. Ascending vertically, the submarine broke the surface, and 30 feet (10 m) of the bow reached into the air for not more than ten seconds before she sank once again all the way to the bottom.[13] Momsen said of the mishap, "pontoons were smashed, hoses cut and I might add, hearts were broken."[14] After 20 more days of preparation, with a radically redesigned pontoon and cable arrangement, the next lift was successful, as were two further operations. Squalus was towed into Portsmouth on 13 September, and decommissioned on 15 November. A total of 628 dives had been made in rescue and salvage operations.[14]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian

Hughes Glomar Explorer employed a large mechanical claw, which Lockheed officially titled the "Capture Vehicle" but affectionately called Clementine. The capture vehicle was designed to be lowered to the ocean floor, grasp the targeted submarine section, and then lift that section into the ship's hold. One requirement of this technology was to keep the floating base stable and in position over a fixed point 16,000 feet (4,900 m) below the ocean surface.

The capture vehicle was lowered and raised on a pipe string similar to those used on oil drilling rigs. Section by section, 60-foot (18 m) steel pipes were strung together to lower the claw through a hole in the middle of the ship. This configuration was designed by Western Gear Corp. of Everett, Washington. Upon a successful capture by the claw, the lift reversed the process — 60-foot (18 m) sections drawn up and removed one at a time. The salvaged "Target Object" was thus to be drawn into a moon pool, the doors of which could then be closed to form a floor for the salvaged section. This allowed for the entire salvage process to take place underwater, away from the view of other ships, aircraft, or spy satellites.

<snip>

U.S. Army Major General Roland Lajoie stated that, according to a briefing he received by the CIA, during recovery operations, Clementine suffered a catastrophic failure, causing two-thirds of the already raised portion of K-129 to sink back to the ocean floor.[citation needed] Former Lockheed and Hughes Global Marine employees who worked on the operation have stated that several of the "claws" intended to grab the submarine fractured, possibly because they were manufactured from maraging steel, which is very strong, but not very ductile compared with other kinds of steel.
File:Burial At Sea of Soviet Submariners from Hughes Glomar Explorer.webmPlay media
Video of the Soviet sailors being buried at sea

The recovered section included two nuclear torpedoes, and thus Project Azorian was not a complete failure. The bodies of six crewmen were also recovered, and were given a memorial service and with military honors, buried at sea in a metal casket because of radioactivity concerns. Other crew members have reported that code books and other materials of apparent interest to CIA employees aboard the vessel were recovered, and images of inventory printouts exhibited in the documentary[7] suggest that various submarine components, such as hatch covers, instruments and sonar equipment were also recovered. White's documentary also states that the ship's bell from K-129 was recovered, and was subsequently returned to the Soviet Union as part of a diplomatic effort. The CIA considered that the project was one of the greatest intelligence coups of the Cold War.[8]

The entire salvage operation was recorded by a CIA documentary film crew, but this film remains classified. A short portion of the film, showing the recovery and subsequent burial at sea of the six bodies recovered in the forward section of K-129, was given to the Russian Government in 1992.

[sandensea]

23. Ocean Infinity has assured it can be done.

Macri, however, won't hear of it.

The families of the victims are, as you can imagine, livid. It's also becoming increasingly clear to public opinion in Argentina that he's trying to hide something.

Certainly wouldn't be the first time for the 'Argentine Trump'.

Thank you for keeping up with this story, Judi. I suspect the truth that lies beneath, is at least as big as the submarine.

[Sunlei]

20. to bad they didn't find it before it sank so deep & imploded. Was there time to abandon ship?