Teacher Who Told First-Grade Students Santa Isn't Real Won't Be Returning To School, Officials Say

[Polybius]

Source: CBS Philly

MONTVILLE, N.J. (CBS/AP) — School officials say a substitute teacher who told first-grade students in New Jersey that Santa Claus isn’t real will not be returning to the school.

NJ.com reports Montville Schools Superintendent Rene Rovtar confirmed Tuesday the teacher will no longer work in the district after the incident Thursday at Cedar Hill School.

Rovtar declined further comment, saying the issue is a personnel matter.

Officials say the teacher debunked other holiday characters, including the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and Elf on a Shelf.

Read more: https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2018/12/05/teacher-who-told-first-grade-students-santa-isnt-real-wont-be-returning-to-school-officials-say/

[TeamPooka]

1. because...

[allgood33]

122. You lose your job for telling the truth? The tooth fairy isn't real either.

[Demonaut]

131. fuck....he owes me a lot of money since I got dentures, my retirement plan!

[More_Cowbell]

2. In 2nd grade in Catholic school, a nun told us that there was no Santa, just St. Nicholas

We didn't believe her. She didn't get FIRED.

[Hekate]

14. Nuns believe in saints, not old pagan gods. That's canon. So in her terms she was right.

And you know nuns can't be fired.

[Igel]

64. They can from that gig.

Or the equivalent, reassigned elsewhere, often with different living circumstances. It's disruptive and often is accompanied by a reduction in prestige, living conditions, and social interaction.

[vercetti2021]

3. I think firing was extreme

It wasn't their call to make telling the kids all this, that is up to the parents to decide. But I think it isn't on the grounds of firing someone over it.

[Freedomofspeech]

6. I think she was a substitute...

They just won't call her back again. As a retired teacher, I think they are doing the right thing. I cannot imagine telling those sweet little first graders there is no Santa.

[Big Blue Marble]

7. I do.

This is a woman on a mission that is out of synch with families of these children. As someone who lost the magic
of Christmas at a too early age, I can only feel the loss for theses kids and their parents. She showed poor
judgement in stealing this small childhood joy in the service of her agenda.

[vercetti2021]

23. Kids are pretty resilient

I'm sure most if not all those kids will still believe, they either won't believe it out right or their parents will talk to them and reassure them they exist.

[The Liberal Lion]

24. I say this in the most friendliest of manner

It is much better to lose the notion of myth and superstition at the youngest age possible than to bring it into adulthood and have myth become a fixed aspect of personality.
I currently do not celebrate Christmas or any other religion based holiday because I consider them as well as religion a waste of time. However, when I was a child I got Christmas gifts. My mother let me know almost as soon as I could comprehend that there was no fat man who committed the crime of breaking and entering in order to satiate short term my greed for things but rather it was her hard work alone that brought me these toys that I would break shortly after the day.
In so saying I laud this teacher because truth is always better than living a lie, no matter how good that lie feels and how much the truth hurts.

[Iggo]

31. I find it difficult to say that in a friendly manner.

Thanks for the effort!

[gopiscrap]

32. same here

[Big Blue Marble]

33. It was not her right to take this belief away.

While you do not value the "magic of childhood" phase, many of us do. It has little to do growing
up delusional and more about the playfulness of childhood and for many parents reliving that
mystery and joy through their children's experience.

I assure you, I have raised two very rational and intelligent children who fully function in the real
world without the delusions of religion and yet they thoroughly enjoyed those "magical times."
And when the time was right, they figured out the facts and importantly were at an age whee acceptance
came easily.

This woman way overstepped her boundaries and we do not know what damage snd trauma she
has created. Your attitude on lying may or not be appropriate for adults, but one must be very sensitive
with especially young children. My impression is that she was far more concerned about sharing her
truth than her young students feelings.

[erronis]

36. So if a teacher taught the children about some other myth, you'd be OK?

How about Vishnu or Lord Vader? Are these necessary for the magic of childhood?

What if the teacher had said that racism was wrong when the parents had been espousing racism?

Is it a school's responsibility to only support the beliefs that each and every child/parent may have?

Or is it to stick to the facts and just teach those? If it is the facts-only method then almost all religious ideology would not be allowed in the classroom.

Still, if I were a teacher - permanent or substitute - I don't think I'd want to stick my head in that quagmire.

[brooklynite]

45. Yes, she SHOULD "stick to the facts and just teach those"...

...except that the existence or not of Santa is, I'm willing to bet, not a part of the curriculum.

[d_r]

79. actually

I would not be OK at all if a substitute teacher told a class of young children that Vishnu wasn't "real."

[Dorian Gray]

104. Right...

because it isn't her fucking place to comment on that. Nor is it her place to tell kids there is or isn't a santa. If they celebrate Christmas, just say Merry Christmas. If they worship Vishnu or God or Satan, let them be. If they are atheists, don't tell them they'll go to hell.

Is it really so hard to let kids be? And teach them math or reading?

good lord.

[The Liberal Lion]

48. I appreciate your point of view

However, like my mother before me I taught all my children the fraud which is Christmas and the sense of entitlement surrounding it. I will disagree with you I will continue to maintain it's always best to know the truth then to live a lie. And I agree the children probably did suffer some kind of superficial trauma. Disillusionment, a desirable thing as it means to remove an illusion, is always painful. Pain is indeed the greatest of teachers.

[Big Blue Marble]

50. There is no such thing as "superficial trauma."

By definition, trauma is deep wounding.

I repeat your right to hold your view as well. You do give yourself away though when you use language that
minimizes pain. As one who has experienced deep pain through my life beginning in my early childhood,
I will disagree that pain is the greatest teacher. It is a teacher to be sure, but love and compassion are far more
effective for developing healthy adult human beings.

[DiverDave]

80. How about

We let kids be kids? How about we let them believe in santa, just to see the excitement?

My kids learned on their own that these things weren't real. And they are pretty well adjusted.

Breaking and entering? Really??

[The Liberal Lion]

87. OR we can let them be kids without all the lies.

We can allow them to experience the excitement of truth instead of the false images of myth.

Just another way of living. You're fine with your way, I'll continue to urge leading a truthful life as my way, however.
respectfully submitted

[ProfessorGAC]

115. Seems An Absolutist Position

It would logically seem to require that all lies are equally bad. That just doesn't square with reality.

[The Liberal Lion]

116. Indeed all lies distort reality

A judgement of good or bad is not as valid as the degree of distortion that a lies causes.
This is my position. I wouldn't call it absolutist. But if you see it that way who am I to attempt to disrupt this reality for you?

Respectfully submitted

[ProfessorGAC]

117. Thank You For Making My Point

Your position is absolutist.

[Hekate]

41. You &the most rigid of 17th century Calvinists can congratulate yourselves on your joyless existence

While the rest of us enjoy our pagan festivals.

[The Liberal Lion]

49. Well at least you're acknowleding the truth

and there is nothing wrong with that.

[erronis]

55. Or even anti-theist festivals! (Not sure what those are, perhaps Burning Man?)

I know that most of my family and friends who have grown up in multi-religious and areligious families treat the traditions as only a form of communality. We have atheists, Wiccans, Jews, Hindus, Pastafarians, and a smattering of Christians. None of them are zealots and are quite happy to dine, talk, and sometimes cohabit.

For the most part we came from the traditional xian mould that escaped Europe since the 1600's. Fortunately times change and many people update their understanding of how the world works.

Too bad for those that still need Santa or Jesus or Jupiter or a flaming bush for an explanation.

[Hekate]

62. Burning Man seems to be billed as an art festival plus whatever you want to make of it...

But I have to say, the overall framework looks as pagan as all get-out.

Which works fine for me, being on the Goddess path and all.

My family does not do zealotry, either.

[Izzy Blue]

72. I'm curious

Do your children also not celebrate Christmas?

[The Liberal Lion]

89. I don't but they do

I detest that they do, but I accept that they feel pressured by the events around them and therefore feel compelled to celebrate all aspects of the holiday. I buy them gifts because they ask me to, and I accept gifts from whomever wants to give them to me. Everyone who knows me that closely, however, know my views.

[Izzy Blue]

98. Apart from all the dynamics involved hopefully

you enjoy being with family and friends.

Thank you for your reply.

[Dorian Gray]

105. How old are your kids?

Hopefully you cover the disdain you feel for the holiday and enjoy time spent with them.

[d_r]

77. I'm sorry that happened to you

[The Liberal Lion]

90. 'tis the season for joy, right?

Don't be sorry. I'm never an individual for whom sorrow is need. Appreciated, but unnecessary.

[Tiggeroshii]

82. Lots of subs are not called back for a million reasons. My question:

How is this news?

[JonLP24]

121. I never bought into it

Same goes for God which felt like Santa Clause to me but my grandparents were convinced of the former. When I was a kid the news used to play along give status updates of where Santa was flying but these days I don't know how you can keep a Santa secret safe. I imagine kids these days are learning things a lot faster.

[Hekate]

15. She was a substitute, and as such has no standing whatsoever. Believe me.

And what a mean-spirited self-righteous thing to do to small children. If she wants to preach Jesus she can go teach in a religious school that supports her point of view. But it should be pointed out that Jesus taught that adults should be kind to children.

[vercetti2021]

21. I agree it wasn't her place to do what she did

But in our world, jobs and teachers are a big need. I think she was totally wrong in doing what she did.

[Izzy Blue]

70. Great idea for her to bring her good tidings to a religious school.

She can start with a Christian school and tell all the kids that they're being lied to because Christmas is not really Jesus's birthday because no one actually knows when he was born.

lol

[gopiscrap]

30. No teachers are to teach facts, not falsehoods

[3Hotdogs]

4. I hope she was Jehovah's Witness and got fired.

O.T.O.H., is it the schools' job to spread nonsense or are they supposed to disseminate truth?

[knightmaar]

16. Bingo.

[H2O Man]

5. When I was

in first grade, an older kid told me there was no Santa, just my parents. I rationally explained my parents were too poor to buy me the gifts Santa delivered. He laughed, so I beat him up. I was sent to the principal's office the moment I got off the bus. After explaining the situation to him, he laughed as well, and sent me on my way.

[msongs]

8. beat up a kid. its a regular laugh up alright. nt

[Hekate]

13. At the age of 6? C'mon.

[erlewyne]

9. I'm the fifth oldest child

And long before I went to school I was informed it is
all make-believe by my older siblings. The same way was with
prayer-in-school. Just play the game.

I find it hard to believe, 70 years later, we still play.

[RobinA]

111. I'm The Oldest

and I played the game from the beginning for waaaay too long. I wished my mother would just give it up already. I never needed Santa to feel the magic of Christmas. I mean, a sleigh and eight tiny reindeer??? I was born knowing that was just silly. I never discussed it with my sister, but she obviously thought the same, because she wasn’t going to do the Santa bit when she had kids, but they insisted when they got the school. I would not have done Santa if I had had kids, but would have made Christmas magical in other ways. I certainly wouldn’t go around telling little kids there is no Santa, but I think if you’re going to do Santa you have to realize you’re on thin ice and somebody could blow the whistle at any moment.

[packman]

10. I knew Santa wasn't real when I unwrapped my chocolate treat

Note: A few years back a Fox talking head , Meg Kelly (?), said Santa was a white guy and I posted this same image to prove he wasn't only NOT white, but NOT a guy and Not even human.

I still love Santa

[More_Cowbell]

11. I love that. nt

[Hekate]

18. Wow, that could scar a kid for life!

[erronis]

37. And who knows where that dark bunny-god has been?

[Igel]

66. In a bubble universe

talking to Donnie Darko.

[eppur_se_muova]

12. OP is misleading. It was dissing the Elf on a Shelf that did her in.

Thou shalt not debunk society's officially promulgated shared delusions except at thy peril.

[knightmaar]

17. So we want teachers to lie to children?

Good plan, that.

[Hekate]

19. If this is the case I recall, she used her mean-spirited speech to tell the kids about Jesus.

Is that better?

[gay texan]

22. Par for course

In the State of Texas. Happens around here more often than you think but rarely ever reported

[Kaleva]

34. Why did she even bring it up? Was it part of the curriculum that day?

[knightmaar]

51. I haven't seen the details.

If directly asked, I don't expect a teacher to lie.
Someone said she brought it up on purpose in order to steer children to Jesus, but I haven't seen a story to verify that.

Probably, in that situation, I would defer to to my "Does god really exist?" answer, which is something like a defensive double-handwave followed by "Oh, no. You have to figure that out for yourself."

[The Wizard]

20. The teacher should have taken the nest step

and told them St. Nicholas brought Voodoo to Haiti.

[elmac]

40. Hey, Christmas is a long standing tradition celebrating

how much profits Amazon will make

[The Liberal Lion]

25. Fuck Christmas and hooray for that teacher.

A teacher's job is to teach the truth. This is what she did. Having Christmas pageantry at a public school is in my view a violation of the separation of Church and State. Having official days off from public school for any holiday represents state sanctioned religion.
That ain't kosher in my book.

[Hekate]

42. Nasty

[Demsrule86]

47. Santa has nothing to do with the state.

And if parents want to do Santa ( I did). It is not up to the teacher to 'debunk' anything. I am delighted she was fired...mean women who shouldn't teach.

[Renew Deal]

54. You should watch this movie

[The Liberal Lion]

56. I've seen it.

[moriah]

86. Most of those that go on crusades preaching against the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus....

... as well as the Tooth Fairy and anything "magical" at a young age are doing it not to discourage religion, but encourage their version of orthodoxy in their (usually a variant of Protestant) Christianity.

Because instead of believing kids can eventually sort out that "people like to believe in things they can't prove because it makes them feel good -- some of them are definitely not real and some of them are quite unlikely, but as long as someone's Magical Sky Master isn't commanding them to trample on other people's rights or treat other people like shit, and telling them instead to do good to others and all that nice happy prosocial behavior, it's okay", they have Magical Sky Masters that disregard all that prosocial stuff in favor of "this is the One True Way and fuck everyone else".

Hate Christmas all you want, but the quotes don't sound like the sensible things I'm used to hearing from atheists. Instead it sounds like the shit I'm used to hearing it from rabidly Protestant Christians who are afraid their kid will too have that moment where, like me, they say "What about Jesus?" after getting told Santa and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy aren't real, and having to say "No, no, THAT unseen being we've told you to believe in is real."

[The Liberal Lion]

88. I can see that. Thanks for that perspective

Honestly enlightening.

[moriah]

114. It *was* really awkward for Mom. ;)

Of course, I'd already asked Granny why God contradicted himself in the first two chapters of his Holy Book (Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 have obvious contradictions even to a kindergartner) and been told "Not everything in the Bible is meant literally." I was lucky.

You have to admit, though, there was a hell of a lot more evidence for the existence of the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny than for Jesus. Those first three put tangible gifts out every so often, after all, and to a six year old, that's a lot more substantial than metaphysical "spiritual gifts".

[Quixote1818]

26. Haven't most kids figured it out by 1st grade? I think my brother and I had. nt

[Polybius]

28. Nope

My nephew just stopped believing, and he's 9. He says everyone in his class but him still believes. Myself? I stopped around 9 or 10.

[Codeine]

68. If I met a ten year old who genuinely believed in Santa

I would fucking weep for our future. Happily I do not believe such a child exists.

[Polybius]

107. Perhaps I was 9

I did say 9 or 10, unfortunately it was so long ago I can't recall the exact age. My nephew stopped at 9 and is in the 4th grade. Maybe that's the cutoff age. Of course, the "cool kids" (who I could never stand as a kid) stopped believing earlier. These same kids also stopped playing with toys earlier, and bullied those who did. To me, that's missing out on a fun childhood.

[JackRiddler]

69. If true, that is dismaying.

I was out by 5 or so, certainly once in school.

Come on!

[Polybius]

108. Why wouldn't it be true? Why is it dismaying?

They're young kids, let them enjoy their childhood. I'm certainly not putting anyone down for not believing at 5, however.

[JackRiddler]

128. I do not consider this "enjoying childhood."

Children should not be told lies.

I'm sure we can think of exceptions, but bullshit stories about a magic fairy invented by capitalist advertising who delivers consumer goods should not be one of them.

Parents should not conceal who is giving the gifts. This in no way diminishes the enjoyment of childhood. It's kind of sick to believe children enjoy childhood more because they're told a lie about Santa Claus.

We never taught our child about Santa Claus. He had a wonderful childhood.

No is obligated to conform to a conspiracy to deceive children.

Do you understand that keeping this "secret" means everyone has to deceive their children, or the children will give it away?

Screw that.

It's like training wheels for believing in a man in the sky who created the universe.

[Polybius]

130. And what if the teacher said to the first graders that there was no God?

Would you be ok with that too? Even if the Santa thing made sense, sometimes you have to turn the other cheek, knowing what it could lead to.

[JackRiddler]

132. The difference is obvious.

Santa Claus is known as a particular, fictional character, its current form devised by capitalist advertising. Everyone participating in the conspiracy to deceive little children about the existence of this character knows it does not exist. There are no churches or scriptures of Santa Claus and no one proselytizes to gain believers in it.

There is no common definition of "God" and there are versions of this entity that even atheists could accept (since they basically amount to a synonym for the universe). Most definitions of "God" are posed such that they cannot be disproved. It's invisible, it reveals itself in totally mysterious and irreproducible ways, etc. etc. This drives geniuses who want to believe in it to some pretty laughable extremes of sophistry, like Pascal's Wager.

If the question of God comes up in a classroom, stating that people disagree about whether it exists and one will have to decide for themselves is an appropriate response.

[JenniferJuniper]

61. I was 4 1/2. I found a hidden

toy and asked my mother about it. She made up some story about it being a gift for a cousin of mine. Christmas morning it was under the tree from "Santa" to a sibling.

Oh, she tried to claim Santa just happened to bring the same toy. But I called her on her BS and she finally admitted it.

Some kids are young and some a bit older but I'd say the average age is about 7 - which is roughly the common law age of reason.

And some kids pretend to still believe because they're afraid they won't get quite as good a haul if there is no Santa. My nephew told me he knew at 7 but he begged me not to tell his parents. He's 12 and my sister still thinks he's a believer. eyeroll

[RobinA]

112. I Pretended

because it seemed important to my parents. The whole story never made a bit of sense to me, but it was fun for a couple years and then it just got old. It was probably my least favorite part of Christmas. I wanted to help decorate the tree, but Santa had to do it on Christmas Eve. Now I still love the tree, but I wish he, or at least some elves, would just come do it while I sit and watch.

[Polybius]

113. Putting up the tree and decorating it on Christmas Eve was ridiculously late

I heard it was like that at one point from my mother. Growing up in the 80's, it was usually the first week of December. Now, it's in November.

[RobinA]

118. Well, Santa Couldn't Come

any earlier than that, because he was busy at the North Pole. The point was to see the tree and the presents all lit up at the same time. Both sets of Grandparents would come over, we'd go to bed, and they'd all decorate. It was kinda good when I was very young, but it got to the point where I wanted to help decorate. My father was a dedicated Christmas Eve decorator 'til the day he died.

[Polybius]

125. I'm glad I was too young to have ever seen that tradition

I just don't get why you can't put the tree up on say the 10th or so, and then put the presents out on Christmas Eve. A Christmas tree is beautiful, and I like to admire it for as long as I could, which for me is all of December and the last two weeks of November.

Since I fall out of the Christmas spirit on the 26th, that would mean only one day to truly appreciate the tree.

[Mike Nelson]

27. She was a sub...

… a substitute teacher should follow the lesson plans left by the teacher. You don't do the job, you don't get called back! The need to train their subs better - questions about holiday and religious figures come up all the time - especially this month. It's not difficult!

[erronis]

38. Just read from the lesson plan. Don't take questions and don't give independent answers.

Especially this month. Like we're just a xian nation and only this month has young questioning minds. The easter bunny only comes on the days dictated by the roman pope....

[Iggo]

29. But, but, but...Santa isn't real.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

35. Most families have Christmas traditions that likely involve Santa Claus.

Maybe all the kids know Santa is really their parents, or maybe they don't. If they don't, maybe the parents would like to be able to keep that story alive for their kids and let the kids figure Santa Claus out for themselves, as I did. While firing the teacher might have been too harsh, it seems to me that it was not appropriate for her to tell the kids something that maybe the parents should have been able to deal with themselves.

[erronis]

39. "Most families have Christmas traditions"...

By most, I guess you mean some percentage larger than other traditions. I'm not sure if this is true and I doubt it will remain true.

Parents are always the last to tell the kids about the real facts of life.

[Nitram]

44. When I asked my Mom why there was a string holding Santa'ss beard on, she got angry and

told me, "OK, don't believe on Santa if you don't want to." I was just an observant 6-year-old with a lot of curiosity.

[Nitram]

43. Telling the truth should not be a firing offense. Perhaps she should be asigned to teach

older students.

[BigmanPigman]

46. I taught first grade for almost 15 years

and subbed almost everyday for two years. The sub just wouldn't be called again in my district. I always did Christmas big time and held the threat of e-mailing Santa about their behavior over their heads. It got me good behavior for a few weeks. We wrote letters to Santa to give to their parents to mail (a heads up on "wish lists&quot . A lot of kids would say there was no Santa but I convinced them otherwise. Usually it was info from an older sibling so I told them to ignore it and that siblings like to be mean to little kids. It always worked. Little kids love giving gifts more than receiving them too.

[Hekate]

57. And you would be a fun teacher and a fun sub. Little children need play and imagination...

When they are deprived of it by punitive and censorious adults, it stunts them.

My mother really did not like Santa Claus. She grew up poor. We were poor when I was little. I think she felt a mixture of resentment, performance anxiety, and gods know what-all.

BUT she transmuted her feelings into little sermons on "the true meaning of Christmas is loving others," and "Santa isn't a real person, but he is The Spirit of Loving and Giving," and so on. She let the littlest in our family believe, but she neither encouraged nor discouraged that belief, knowing each child would outgrow it soon enough. Presents were never extravagent, but they were there.

She was a substitute teacher for many years, and often was chosen for long gigs when a teacher was out for surgery or some such. She would never have stomped all over the holiday joy of a bunch of small children.

[BigmanPigman]

63. Some of them or their parents still write to me.

One little girl recognized me last year at a store...15 after she was in my class. She is 22 and remembered me. I hope all of my former students remember how much we voted in secret ballots and tallies for everything...they loved it ( it taught writing and math besides civics). I hope they are all voting as adults.

[LisaM]

78. EXACTLY. Kids totally need imagination.

That's why I think this teacher was basically in a mis-cast role - she shouldn't be teaching small children if that's how she feels about things.

[Hekate]

84. Check out my post in GD -- link

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211516683

[samnsara]

52. how can someone be SO STUPID????

[Izzy Blue]

73. From the get-go I said she should be fired from the district.

I'm very pleased that she was.

My main concern is that I consider what she did sadistic and a form of emotional child abuse.
She should be no where near children so she can't derive any more pleasure from deliberately inflicting shock and sadness on them.

[Iggo]

94. That's funny!

I consider lying to your children about the existence of Santa and God is child abuse!

Weird world, ain't it?

[House of Roberts]

53. We did it a little different.

The stuff in your stocking was from Santa Claus.
The stuff under the tree was from mom and dad, unless it was wrapped with a card attached.

[Izzy Blue]

74. I like that Santa tradition

Did the stocking gifts from Santa hold any special significance compared to the gifts from your parents?

[House of Roberts]

106. Not usually.

Stocking gifts were limited to fruit and candy, with an occasional Matchbox or Hot Wheels car, or sometimes batteries.

[laserhaas]

59. Work all year long and give credit for the joy your kids have

To a phony bologna man in a red & white suit.

That's the ticket

[FiveGoodMen]

67. I'm with you

My folks told me the truth from the get-go and I've never regretted it.

BTW, when people say large conspiracies can't be maintained, think about how this one person, letting the cat out of the bag on this world-wide conspiracy is big news. Most of the time, the secret is kept despite a few billion who know it's false.

[LuvLoogie]

60. A very narcissistic thing to do.

The only lesson learned is that some adults can be shitty people.

[JackRiddler]

133. Oh no! Don't interrupt a deception practiced on children!

It's your duty to participate in the mass conspiracy against five-year-olds!

[LuvLoogie]

134. The world encroaches upon Eden...

Butterflies become scorpions and mentors become tor-mentors
Protectors become lectors and berate the young.
"Your whimsy is flimsy in THIS realm...

"Your parents deceive you.
Now let me relieve you.
That feast you perceive
Is a rat on a stick.

"I offer you freedom from Faeries and woe.
Come to me, now, for you've no place to go."

[JackRiddler]

135. It doesn't have to be a liberationist effort.

I wouldn't go out of my way to yell about Santa being a hoax at random kindergarten children. By the logic stated by some here, those who refuse to participate -- for example, parents who don't teach this capitalist fairy tale to their children, who might then share the truth about Santa to their peers -- are endangering the opportunity of other children to have happy childhoods!

Where's the verse from, if it's not yours? I like it.

[LuvLoogie]

138. It's mine...

A little diddy inspired in part by your War on Christmas, and the general theme of innocence lost. My college-age nephew read us his new short story titled "Endless Summer" last night after cookie baking.

A lean spirit might lead one to cynicism. Anyone's reality is only viable for now. The cloister of family can be dreamy or Hellish, and it is often both.

[JackRiddler]

139. My War on Christmas!

Hoooo-boy. You got problems, or mighty strong fantasies there.

[LuvLoogie]

140. Dude, this is the Democratic Underground.

I'm sure you've been here long enough to tell when someone is poking you for fun. It seemed you are fond of hyperbolic expression.

[JackRiddler]

141. Can't always tell, am constantly misinterpreted myself.

Such judgments need context, either voice and gestural cues, or, online, sufficient experience with an interlocutor. Won't always be spotted, ya know?

But I do like Onion-talk, sure.

[Brainstormy]

65. as long as she carefully explained

that Santa only brings toys to boys and girls whose parents have money, I don't see the problem.


(can't find that sarcasm thingie.)

[violetpastille]

71. +1

I know right? Champagne problems.

[YOHABLO]

75. Perhaps it's not the teacher's responsibility to bring children into reality. Wait, what did I say?

[still_one]

76. WHAT!!! No Santa, East Bunny, the Toothe Fairy. At least I know the Keebler Elf is real

Jeff Sessions

[Jrsygrl96]

81. Disgusted

I read a lot of responses and they confirm my thoughts that opinions are like a*&%#$@s.......

This person is a substitute, not a certified teacher! Big difference! She is young, and not Christian. I guarantee she thought she was EDUCATING the children. While I personally think it was not prudent of her to let the cat(s) out of the bag(s), it was not done maliciously. She is a meek, humble young lady.

The district is upper middle class. You have to be savvy, politically correct and watch what you say at all times! NJ Housewives territory. Need I say anything more.

[femmedem]

85. Thank you for humanizing her here.

It's too easy to judge a person harshly from a news story.

I do remember, with some dislike, the girl a few years older than me who broke the news about Santa to me. The fact that my parents confirmed it when I asked didn't lessen my anger.

But while I agree that it's a subject best left to the parents, I also don't know how the subject came up or her motivation. (Was she asked to referee a dispute between two students about Santa's existence, for example?) I'm sure she thought she was doing the right thing, and I'm also sure it could have been solved with some policy guidance rather than firing.

And I feel horrible for her that it's become a national news story.

[Izzy Blue]

93. According to this mom it appears as a set-up which would indicate intent.

I had read Simek's FB comments and she specifically asked that people refrain from attacking the sub-teacher(para-phrasing)


"Lisa Simek, whose daughter attends Cedar Hill School, where the incident happened, said the teacher completely “unleash[ed] on them” after she asked what holiday was coming up and one students replied “Christmas.”

“She told them Santa isn’t real and parents just buy presents and put them under their tree,” Simek wrote on Facebook."





https://www.insideedition.com/children-devastated-after-new-jersey-substitute-teacher-tells-them-santa-claus-isnt-real-48896

[Iggo]

95. Don't kid yourself. She KNEW she was educating the children.

About the existence of Santa, anyway.

[Codeine]

110. Well stated. nt

[Blue_Tires]

83. Not touching this one, no way

[Iggo]

96. Don't worry. I'm all over it.

[trof]

91. My 11 year old granddaughter still believes.

^sigh^



She and her mom were at a party where there was a "Santa Claus".

"Do you want a picture with Santa?"

"No, that's not the REAL Santa. I want to go see the real one at Burlington Mall."

[LongtimeAZDem]

92. Vilified for telling the truth. SMH

Kids will have all kinds of childlike wonder without having to be lied to by adults.

[Marrah_Goodman]

97. Good, it wasn't her place to do that

[Iggo]

99. It was exactly her place.

[Marrah_Goodman]

100. No, it wasn't.

It was her place to teach the curriculum, not destroy families holiday traditions.

[Iggo]

101. Yes, it was.

In a classroom, educating children.

[Marrah_Goodman]

102. Nope.... we are absolutely NOT going to agree on this

[Iggo]

103. Yep...we aren't.

[JackRiddler]

136. DESTROY! OH THE HUMANITY!!!

That's rich.

[Talitha]

109. My Kindergarten Nun told us there was no Santa...

And no one cried, screamed, fainted, or got fired.
Mind you, this was in the mid-50s when ALL kids were true believers.
No one got emotionally scarred and TBH, many of us had already suspected it.
Life goes on...

Merry Christmas!

[meadowlander]

119. Why should public tax dollars prop up an institution that perpetuates lies to kids?

I don't think teachers should run around deliberately saying there's no Santa (or even bringing the topic up at all) but if it did come up through a student question, I don't think it's the teacher's job to prop up untruths that parents tell their kids.

We all figure it out eventually, and six is a pretty good run.

When I was five, I hid behind the sofa to try to catch Santa and saw my parents instead. It didn't ruin my childhood or suck all of the magic out of it. I just said, "OK, guess that's just a story then." I was actually glad because it meant I was grown-up enough to understand the truth while all the little kids still needed to be told some bullshit.

The whole reason we have public schools is so that parents can't brainwash their kids with their ignorant crap.

Then we wonder why 70% of American believe in angels and 45% think climate change is a hoax. It starts right here - with parents thinking they have an absolute right to filter every single thought or opinion their child is ever exposed to.

[The Liberal Lion]

120. agreed

[liberalhistorian]

123. I'm sorry, I agree that it was stupid and wrong for her

to do this as it wasn't her place to tell the children such things, but a firing just isn't warranted. The punishment is way out of proportion to the "crime".

[backtoblue]

124. All children find out Santa isn't real at some point...

Personally, I didn't teach my child to believe in something untruthful.

To me, this isn't that big of a deal to tell kids the truth. I'm not a teacher of small kids, however, so I don't know how I'd respond in such a circumstance.

I'd probably mention the Easter Bunny and Ronald McDonald too, though so it's probably a good thing I'm not a teacher...

[TDale313]

126. Good. That substitute teacher was way out of line.

Raise your own children however you wish. Have these discussions when appropriate. But this teacher had no right to make this call for a classroom of other people’s 6 year olds. It was an asshole move that showed really poor judgement. They really don’t belong in the classroom.

[SomethingNew]

127. I'm sure glad I didn't have many of you for parents.

Just how miserable do you have to be in order to hate Christmas and think kids should just grow the fuck up and start praising you for the hard work you did earning the money for Christmas presents? Believing in an innocent myth like Santa has never hurt anyone (well, except the short-term harm done to the kids subjected to this “teacher”) but it has brought so many kids (myself included) much joy and excitement. Get over yourselves. Your holy crusade against all things non scientific can afford to stop just shy of Santa.

[JackRiddler]

137. Bunch of strawman bullshit

Our child was and is very happy and imaginative. We didn't demand praise for the gifts or the work. We just did not indoctrinate him in some capitalist bullshit about a magic fairy. His joy was boundless anyway. No one's childhood was ever deprived by not being indoctrinated in Santa Claus! (Where does one even GET such an idea? Pathetic.) You want to believe it's an innocent myth, fine, you don't get to impose that on everyone else. You don't get to require a loyalty oath to your Santa myth, lest someone ruin it by not conforming. Tough world, I guess. So sorry.

[SomethingNew]

142. Some of your fellow Scrooges upthread

Have complained about Santa getting the “credit” for their hard work. You also make your kids watch Holocaust documentaries after school instead of cartoons?

[JackRiddler]

129. Children should not be told lies.

I'm sure we can think of exceptions, such as to help with traumas.

Bullshit stories invented by capitalist advertising, about a magic fairy who delivers consumer goods, should not be one of them.

Parents should not conceal who is giving the gifts, or where they come from.

This in no way diminishes the enjoyment of childhood. (It's kind of sick to believe children will enjoy childhood more because they're told a lie about Santa Claus!)

We never taught our child about Santa Claus. He had a wonderful childhood.

No one is obligated to conform to a conspiracy to deceive children.

Do you understand that keeping this "secret" means everyone has to deceive their children, or the children will give it away?

Screw that.

----

Santa Claus is like training wheels for believing in a man in the sky who created the universe.

Or for requiring the singing of a racist war song, or a totalitarian anti-freedom pledge to follow a peace of cloth any time someone waves it.

Both are against any credible spirit of liberty.