Venezuela returns to 'Middle Ages' during power outages

[oldsoftie]

Source: Yahoo News

Caracas (AFP) - Walking for hours, making oil lamps, bearing water. For Venezuelans today, suffering under a new nationwide blackout that has lasted days, it's like being thrown back to life centuries ago.

El Avila, a mountain that towers over Caracas, has become a place where families gather with buckets and jugs to fill up with water, wash dishes and scrub clothes. The taps in their homes are dry from lack of electricity to the city's water pumps.

"We're forced to get water from sources that obviously aren't completely hygienic. But it's enough for washing or doing the dishes," said one resident, Manuel Almeida.

Because of the long lines of people, the activity can take hours of waiting.
Elsewhere, locals make use of cracked water pipes. But they still need to boil the water, or otherwise purify it.

"We're going to bed without washing ourselves," said one man, Pedro Jose, a 30-year-old living in a poorer neighborhood in the west of the capital.

Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/venezuela-returns-middle-ages-during-power-outages-143506671.html

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Meanwhile, the fat dictator transfers the country's wealth to Russia

[Iliyah]

1. t-rump, pence, administration, family, cabinet

and the gopers tried to oust Madura with another who I just read can't be political for 15 years? Russia skips in, mainly for the oil, and this USA's administration softly say leave while the Russians are laughing and the Venezuela people suffer.

[DetlefK]

2. How dare you! Maduro obviously is a hero because Trump doesn't like him!

How can anybody disliked by Trump POSSIBLY be a bad person?

Being loved or hated by Trump is the only standard that counts when determining whether a person is good or bad! How can we even know whether a person is good or bad if we don't know whether Trump likes or dislikes this person?

[Perseus]

4. What???

This has nothing to do with the orange buffoon...Maduro and his regime are bad, period, and if you read and find out what is going on in Venezuela then you will understand how bad they are. Maduro and the regime are crooks, criminals, they are in bed with Cuba and now, unfortunately, with Russia as well.

Why the comparison with the orange buffoon? I don't understand. Facts are facts, and the facts are that the Chavez "Robolution" has destroyed what used to be a progressive country.

My belief is that Putin told the orange buffoon during their secret meeting in Helsinki to stay out of Venezuela. I can't understand that people do not understand the implications of Russia taking over Venezuela, it is real bad for the Americas as a whole, not to say how bad it is for Venezuelans, that includes the USA.

[DetlefK]

6. Sorry. I had to vent. My apologies.

There are people here on DU who summarily take Maduro's side simply because the US or Trump would like to see him gone.

The same happened a few years ago with Gaddafi. He was a dictator (who happened to be a socialist) and when the US-backed rebels topped him, all of a sudden there were people here on DU who defended him.

[ansible]

10. You should've seen the praise GWB and McCain were getting here too

[The Mouth]

11. The praise for that warmonger McCain is disgusting

Anyone who had a good word to say for him is a DINO at best, and no one whose opinion I will ever trust or care about.

Nothing but a neocon warmonger who never found a war he didn't like nor wasn't willing to send kids to die in; good riddance.

[oldsoftie]

15. Oh yes, the CIA will be blamed at some point for the thievery going on down there.

And they'll probably blame the murder squads on us too
We have plenty of Maduro supporters here. And i guess the Russians being in the middle of it doesnt matter either

[DownriverDem]

3. Unfortunately

Venezuela is who repubs put up to attack socialism. That's when I say look at Norway, Finland, Sweden and Denmark. They have weeks off for vacation. They have health care and education. They are the happiest folks on the Earth. Then usually they point out high taxes. I then point out who cares. All we are going to do is die anyway.

[Perseus]

5. You are correct

High taxes are not bad when used appropriately and honestly, which doesn't happen in the USA.

I visited friends in Canada a few years ago, my friend is a banker. We took their family for dinner, when the check came and I looks at how much tax I was paying, I asked the waitress, "are you happy about paying this much in taxes for s single meal?", her response was "Yes", no thought about it, then she added "I get a lot of benefits from paying those taxes, and I am very happy about it".

My friend sat with me and using numbers he demonstrated how much more money we pay in the USA in health insurance, co-payments, etc. And no, they wait for a medical consultation as much as we do in the USA, they can go in for surgery and they don't have to get a second mortgage.

Like you said, these people ARE very happy.

Venezuela IS NOT a "Socialist" country, it is just a corrupt regime, a "kleptocracy". All people associated with the regime have properties all over the World, they have spent huge sums of money in the country they claim to hate the most, the USA. If you go to Miami, walk around "El Doral" and you will see many of these chavistas. How do you recognize a chavista? They are vulgar, they are "nouveau riche", they are loud, they wear very expensive watches, they have gold iPhones that cost them about $8,000.00, they drive very expensive cars, and all that money is stolen. That is not "Socialism"...

"Socialism" does not exist, what Scandinavian countries have is "Social-Democratic" governments that encompass the best of a capitalist-democratic society with good social services to serve the citizens. Their politicians are not treated as gods, they are not richer than the rest of the population, and they work for the betterment of the country. Politicians do not benefit from private money, there are no lobbyist and thus no corruption.

[oldsoftie]

14. But very few here will support that sales tax you mention.

And its an important part of funding what we want. Because there is SO MUCH untaxed income in this country. I work among it every day. My own income is self-report.
But good luck getting it put into effect here.

And yes, VZ IS a Socialist nation, because the govt controls the means of production & distribution of its proceeds. just because VZ's leaders are corrupt doesnt mean their system is different.

[Yavin4]

17. VZ is indeed a Socialist nation, but it's not a DEMOCRATIC one.

Political and economic systems are deeply related. You cannot have one without the other. Socialism in a non-democratic state is doomed to failure. Both Socialism and democracy give people a voice in how goods/services are distributed and how they are governed. Robbing people of their voice in one, robs them of their voice in the other. This also generally explains why Socialism fails in other nations as well, Cuba, the USSR, China, etc.

The Nordic states have representative democracy and a balanced economy of Capitalism with a vibrant public sector. They have the right formula which shows in the well being of their people.

[Perseus]

25. Socialism does not exist and Venezuela is a kleptocracy

And Venezuela IS NOT a socialist country, there are none in the World..."Socialism" rhetoric is a bait to win masses over, once the so called "socialist leaders" take power, it becomes a dictatorship, which is usually nothing but a kleptocracy which is what Venezuela is.

Nordic countries are "Social-Democratic" governments, that is why it works so well, their capitalism is regulated and their social programs do serve the public.

[Yavin4]

27. We're having a "chicken vs. egg" argument here.

If VZ did have a robust, legitimate, corruption-free democracy, then the Kleptocracy would not exist. Sane people are not going to vote themselves into starvation so that a few people can live well.

The real problem is that people put the economic system ahead of the political one when in fact they're highly correlated. For example, as our economic structure has titled towards the 1%, so too has our political institutions. Our representative democracy represents the will of the people less and less. Instead, it represents the wishes of the 1%.

[Perseus]

23. "VZ IS a Socialist nation, because the govt controls the means of production & distribution"

That is not true, the Venezuelan government does not control production & distribution, of course they have changed the laws to benefit themselves, but aside from the kleptocracy, there is still a lot of private industries, although they are moving away slowly but surely...You have "Polar" who makes beer and other products, most of their factories are still there, and they are independent, there are still a lot of banks who are independent, and plenty of industries the regime has not gotten to, at least not yet.

The perception is wrong, what has happened is that the high ranking members of the regime, like Diosdado Cabello and many in the military have "appropriated" many industries just to take the money, sell the assets and pocket the money, nothing but corruption.

There is no "Socialism", "Socialism" is nothing but rhetoric the eventually, once in power, the face of communism and dictatorship comes out. There is no "socialism" in the World, it doesn't exist, its just rhetoric to enamor the masses and take power. So no, Venezuela IS NOT a socialist country, Venezuela is a kleptocracy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. The Scandinavian countries are not socialist countries anyhow.

Their economies are a heavily regulated capitalism that allows for a robust social safety net, but that's not socialism. One of the reasons Venezuela is such a mess is that half of its economy is based on oil sales, and when oil prices fell a few years ago it could no longer support its social welfare programs. Norway, in contrast, invested its oil revenues instead of spending the money directly (knowing that the oil wouldn't last forever), and now has the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. The government owns 67% of the oil company, Equinor; 3% is owned by a pension fund, and the other 30% is publicly traded. If Venezuela had done something like that it probably wouldn't be broke.

[Yavin4]

19. VZ is a mess because they don't have a functioning democracy

You cannot have a successful Socialist state without a vibrant, corrupt-free democracy. Not giving the people a voice in how they are governed, robs them of their voice in how their economy is managed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. Well, that, too. But they're broke because they screwed up

the way they managed their oil.

[Perseus]

26. Not true...

Venezuela is screwed because crooks and criminals took over the government. Yes, there was corruption before Chavez, no denying that, but it was a controlled corruption, most people lived well and it was a very progressive democracy. Since Chavez, that went to crap, and it got worst with Maduro, who is a criminal.

It has nothing to do with oil, it has everything to do with corruption, the people with Chavez never had intentions to rule and make the country better, their intentions were to suck all the money they could, invent projects that were never completed diverting the money to their bank accounts.

[Perseus]

24. Venezuela's troubles have to do with the regime, a kleptocracy

Venezuela's main income comes from oil, that is true, but Venezuela's revenues came from tourism, it is a very beautiful country, foreign investment, and what used to be a very healthy economy. Venezuela also has gold, steel, diamonds, an incredible fishing industry, etc.

The Scandinavian countries are "Social-Democratic" governments, which has the best of both worlds, very strong social programs and regulated capitalism.

Venezuela's problems have always been due to corruption and with the Chavez regime it was multiplied by 100, Maduro is a criminal, and his minions, which includes the military, are very corrupt.

[GulfCoast66]

9. One problem with your premise: Venezuela is the only socialist country on your list.

The government has taken control of the means of production.

The other nations you mentioned are prosperous capitalist nations with strong social democratic policies.

Real socialism does normally result in what we are seeing in Venezuela.

[PETRUS]

29. Where do you get your information?

Venezuela is a mixed economy, with a large private, for profit sector. Norway is far more socialist than Venezuela.

[olegramps]

12. It all depends how the taxes are used and if the tax structure is progressive.

We fail on both accounts. Much of the taxes are ripped off for pay offs while the wealthy are not taxed proportionately.

[oldsoftie]

13. The Nordic countries are not Socialist. They do not describe themselves as such either.

We can have their services here in the US if we really wanted them. As you mentioned, yes, the taxes are higher. Thats not the problem when trying to implement their programs here. The problem is that over there, EVERYONE pays income and a sales tax. Over here, 1/2 of our workers pay no income tax, only payroll tax. And many of them get EITC, which means they get back more than they paid in. And of course we have no sales tax.

So if we want our Reps to push for the programs we often talk about here, then we also must look at ways that would actually fund them, and stop with the pie in the sky nonsense we always get. It takes REAL money. And it all cant come from the rich. Its that simple.
But just like infrastructure and things like that, nobody ever wants to pay for it.

[christx30]

16. Because most of the time

our politicians are corrupt, and not worthy of any measure of trust. I’m not willing to vote my money into their pockets. I know it wouldn’t go toward the needed projects. It’d be a waste.

[oldsoftie]

18. In that case, we've got what we've got. Not many on DU want term limits for some reason.

And that would do away with some of what you mention. SOME.

[Blues Heron]

8. Centuries lol!

Only if you ignore the great blackout of 1823

FFS the US didn't get rural electricity until well into the 20th century.

[EX500rider]

22. Yes, govt sabotage by not investing in infrastructure instead of buying votes.

It's not a new problem at all.

[ripcord]

28. It's almost like a bus driver isn't qualified to run a country