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riversedge

(70,182 posts)
Thu May 9, 2019, 05:46 PM May 2019

No officer and gentleman would write such obscenities, appellate court agrees

Source: stars and stripes




Judges on the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces unanimously affirmed the conviction and sentence of Lt. Col. Scott Meakin for conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.




By NANCY MONTGOMERY | STARS AND STRIPES Published: May 9, 2019

A former Air Force officer’s online conversations about sexually abusing young children were not constitutionally protected, the military’s highest court has ruled, as it affirmed his conviction for conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.

The Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces Tuesday rejected the legal argument that Lt. Col. Scott Meakin’s graphic online discussions were protected by free speech and privacy guarantees. The five-judge panel unanimously upheld the former combat systems officer’s conviction and sentence to nearly 20 months’ confinement, pay and allowance forfeiture and dismissal from the service.

............................................

Using the pseudonym “John Jones,” he had engaged in a series of online conversations through email, chat rooms, and instant messaging with some 17 anonymous individuals in which he described “in lurid detail the abuse, molestation, and rape of children,” court documents say. One of the unnamed users, posing as a sexually abusive father willing to exploit his young daughter, was a detective in the Internet Child Exploitation Unit of the Holton Regional Police Service in Ontario, Canada.


Meakin had argued that his chats, although “repugnant sexual fantasies involving children,” were anonymous, private, consensual communications protected by the First and Fourteenth amendments, as set out by the 1969 U.S. Supreme Court decision Stanley v. Georgia. That decision helped establish a “right to privacy” in possessing pornography in one’s home.

.................................


“[Meakin’s] obscenity was not contained within his home for consideration within his own mind,” the court said. “Instead, he produced, preserved, and transmitted his written obscenities to seventeen separate individuals.”.................................................

Read more: https://www.stripes.com/news/no-officer-and-gentleman-would-write-such-obscenities-appellate-court-agrees-1.580282



I doubt Trump will pardon this vile man.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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No officer and gentleman would write such obscenities, appellate court agrees (Original Post) riversedge May 2019 OP
In dreams begin actions. He's dangerous. emmaverybo May 2019 #1
When Did Conversations About Committing Crimes Become Protected Speech? dlk May 2019 #2
Writing fiction about committing a crime is still largely protected its the planning to cstanleytech May 2019 #5
I Wasn't Referring to Fiction Writing dlk May 2019 #11
Generally speaking, I'd say it is protected Bradical79 May 2019 #17
I think its even money for Trump to let this guy skate. Trump was a good friend of Jeremy Epstein. marble falls May 2019 #3
What's in it for Trump? JustABozoOnThisBus May 2019 #15
How many millions is the convicted child rapist worth? marble falls May 2019 #16
A former Lt. Col. with no more income, no military retirement income, no V.A. health, etc? JustABozoOnThisBus May 2019 #18
We need Brunt FCA! rictofen May 2019 #30
This guy is one sick fuck. Haggis for Breakfast May 2019 #4
I wouldn't bet that 45 wouldn't pardon this sick f*ck given his creepy behaviour regarding Ivanka. alwaysinasnit May 2019 #6
Disgusting perv. Glad they caught him. nt Honeycombe8 May 2019 #7
I'm guessing from other posts in this OP defacto7 May 2019 #8
Yes, he can pardon court-martial convictions, since he's Commander-in-Chief. Jedi Guy May 2019 #9
Can his pardon restore the Lt Col's retirement income and benefits? JustABozoOnThisBus May 2019 #19
I really have no idea on that one, to be honest. Jedi Guy May 2019 #20
Yes. TomSlick May 2019 #12
Where did he serve? yardwork May 2019 #10
563rd Rescue Group, 23rd Wing at Moody Air Force Base, Ga. TomSlick May 2019 #13
I hope law enforcement is taking a close look at him. yardwork May 2019 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar May 2019 #21
He was also found guilty in FEDERAL court of obtaining child Hortensis May 2019 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar May 2019 #23
Well, fantasies are wholly in one's head and Hortensis May 2019 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar May 2019 #25
Good point. Of course laws criminalizing socially disapproved Hortensis May 2019 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar May 2019 #27
Well, unfortunately he would have been wrong even then Hortensis May 2019 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar May 2019 #29
I was out of town this weekend and slow to respond. TomSlick May 2019 #31
Thanks, Tom, for the valuable view in. I knew the military Hortensis May 2019 #32
Ha! TomSlick May 2019 #33

dlk

(11,540 posts)
2. When Did Conversations About Committing Crimes Become Protected Speech?
Thu May 9, 2019, 06:26 PM
May 2019

This man has serious entitlement issues (among more serious issues, obviously).

cstanleytech

(26,280 posts)
5. Writing fiction about committing a crime is still largely protected its the planning to
Thu May 9, 2019, 07:09 PM
May 2019

commit an actual crime that will land you in real trouble with the civilian court system.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
17. Generally speaking, I'd say it is protected
Sat May 11, 2019, 03:02 PM
May 2019

Obviously, the military laws differ a bit from civilian laws though, and talking about comiting a crime can be evidence if you can show a certain crime took place.

marble falls

(57,063 posts)
3. I think its even money for Trump to let this guy skate. Trump was a good friend of Jeremy Epstein.
Thu May 9, 2019, 06:53 PM
May 2019

The Trump - Epstein Rape Lawsuit | Washington's Blog
[Search domain washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/trump-epstein-rape-lawsuit.html]

https://washingtonsblog.com/2016/11/trump-epstein-rape-lawsuit.html

Donald Trump's post election experience may be as bad or worse than the nightmare he hopes to visit on Hillary Clinton, perhaps worse. Jane Doe (proceeding under a pseudonym) filed a civil lawsuit against Donald Trump and convicted sex offender, Jeremy Epstein, for multiple acts of sexual and physical abuse, which occurred when the defendant was 13 years old.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,336 posts)
15. What's in it for Trump?
Sat May 11, 2019, 11:12 AM
May 2019

This guy has nothing to offer Trump. If there's no profit for Trump, why would he pardon the officer?

I think the Trump family morals are governed by the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,336 posts)
18. A former Lt. Col. with no more income, no military retirement income, no V.A. health, etc?
Sat May 11, 2019, 05:21 PM
May 2019

If he was prudent, thrifty, practiced some investment discipline, maybe he can count his millions with the fingers of one hand. But now, he's probably a long way from Medicare, he'll be paying into ACA health care, living off his savings, he'll need to find work to carry him and his family into old age.

He should have enough to live modestly. He has nothing to give to Trump or anyone.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
8. I'm guessing from other posts in this OP
Thu May 9, 2019, 07:30 PM
May 2019

that tRump can pardon convictions in the court of the Armed Forces. Does someone know if this is true? He can with federal convictions, he can't in state convictions but I don't know about in the Armed Forces.

Jedi Guy

(3,185 posts)
9. Yes, he can pardon court-martial convictions, since he's Commander-in-Chief.
Thu May 9, 2019, 07:36 PM
May 2019

To the best of my knowledge, the only thing he can't pardon is a state conviction. That power is reserved for the governors.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,336 posts)
19. Can his pardon restore the Lt Col's retirement income and benefits?
Sat May 11, 2019, 05:23 PM
May 2019

That would be a huge deal for anyone.

Jedi Guy

(3,185 posts)
20. I really have no idea on that one, to be honest.
Sat May 11, 2019, 08:40 PM
May 2019

In theory, the crime is completely forgiven and all penalties are undone, so I suppose it could restore retirement income and benefits. Maybe a President can specify in the pardon if such benefits are restored or not? That's an interesting question! When I have some time I'll see if my Google-fu is up to discovering the answer.

TomSlick

(11,096 posts)
12. Yes.
Thu May 9, 2019, 11:31 PM
May 2019

While a court-martial is an Article II tribunal (the judiciary is Article III), convictions by court-martial are for "offenses against the United States" and, therefore, subject to presidential pardon under Article II, Section 2.

For what it's worth, it's hard to imagine a pardon in this case. The convicted officer is hardly sympathetic. He richly deserved being cashiered.

yardwork

(61,588 posts)
14. I hope law enforcement is taking a close look at him.
Fri May 10, 2019, 07:29 AM
May 2019

I hope that he didn't put any of these fantasies into action.

Response to riversedge (Original post)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. He was also found guilty in FEDERAL court of obtaining child
Sun May 12, 2019, 06:32 AM
May 2019

pornography. If entrapment could have been used as a defense it no doubt would have been.

This case discussed was tried under military law, and definition and dynamics of what would constitute "entrapment" might be quite different under an authoritarian military legal code. Certainly, a legal duty to comport oneself as a gentleman is.

Response to Hortensis (Reply #22)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
24. Well, fantasies are wholly in one's head and
Sun May 12, 2019, 05:13 PM
May 2019

individual rights to our own fantasies are well established. Good thing, or some people would be afraid to admire baby pictures.

Otoh, child pornography, including on-line, is a real, physical product of crimes committed against children. There is no such thing as legal child porn. Regarding other types of liability, knowingly possessing stolen property is a crime, especially when it's for personal benefit. When it comes to pornography, the "knowing" that it is the product of a crime against children is intrinsic, as is the personal benefit.

Response to Hortensis (Reply #24)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
26. Good point. Of course laws criminalizing socially disapproved
Mon May 13, 2019, 05:42 AM
May 2019

thought have existed probably as long as laws themselves. It's not a new thing. They're constantly popping up anew and in this nation constantly being fought by civil rights protectors. As long as we retain our representative democracy that will continue.

I'd forgotten what I'd read about virtual porn and didn't even consider it, but of course you're right that it is illegal and that a new federal law written as an obscenity statute has so far been upheld after a previous one was struck down. The argument is that virtual child porn violates obscenity laws and obscene language is considered not protected by the First. Interesting that, and thanks for bringing it up.

Response to Hortensis (Reply #26)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Well, unfortunately he would have been wrong even then
Mon May 13, 2019, 01:55 PM
May 2019

depending on what state one was in and what laws hadn't been struck down yet. But liberalism was still overall ascendant then, so it might have been true federally. That was the prevailing principle.

It still is but may not be in future if things go very bad. I wish more people realized how huge the stakes are. Our rights aren't gravity. We can effectively vote or not-vote any of them out of existence, including even the vote itself.

Response to Hortensis (Reply #28)

TomSlick

(11,096 posts)
31. I was out of town this weekend and slow to respond.
Mon May 13, 2019, 07:49 PM
May 2019

After very nearly thirty years as an Army JAG, I can assure you that the court-martial system is not "authoritarian." In my experience, a defendant before a court-martial is afforded more protections than in the civilian system. While there are some differences between a court-martial and a civilian federal court, the differences do not diminish the right to a fair trial. If nothing else, the members of the court - the counterpart of a civilian jury - are all well educated and take their oaths to fairly decide the case very seriously.

(I'll climb off my soapbox now.)

I saw no basis for an entrapment defense in the article attached to the OP whether before a civilian court or court-martial.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
32. Thanks, Tom, for the valuable view in. I knew the military
Tue May 14, 2019, 05:04 AM
May 2019

understood justice very well, of course. I've seen A Few Good Men. I did assume that its authoritarian structure and philosophy might be reflected in the legal code, in ways that didn't conflict with the constitution, but this wasn't a slap at the quality of the law, only that it might be somewhat different.

Not surprised that nothing in the article suggested entrapment in either system, but nice to hear.

Is this guy likely to be able to keep any benefits, do you think, or get some reinstated on an appeal? We have a retired Air Force colonel in our extended family, and his benefits are considerable.

TomSlick

(11,096 posts)
33. Ha!
Tue May 14, 2019, 08:47 PM
May 2019

Years ago, I had a friend just insist that I watch A Few Good Men despite my rule against watching movies and TV shows about lawyers. At the end, I was throwing things at the TV.

At the end of the movie, the defendant was convicted of "Conduct Unbecoming a Marine." I started cursing at the screen. First, there is no such offense under the UCMJ. (There is an offense of Conduct Unbecoming an Officer but the movie defendant was not an officer.) Second, there is nothing beneath the dignity of a Marine. Sorry, the old Army guy couldn't resist.

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