Iran says Ukrainian plane was on fire, tried to turn back

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By AMIR VAHDAT, JON GAMBRELL and DARIA LITVINOVA

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — The crew of a Ukrainian jetliner that crashed in Iran, killing all 176 people on board, never made a radio call for help and were trying to turn back for the airport when their burning plane went down, an initial Iranian investigative report said Thursday. Ukraine, meanwhile, said it considered a missile strike as one of several possible theories for the crash, despite Iran’s denials.

The Iranian report suggests that a sudden emergency struck the Boeing 737 operated by Ukrainian International Airlines early on Wednesday morning, when it crashed, just minutes after taking off from Imam Khomeini International Airport in Tehran.

Investigators from Iran’s Civil Aviation Organization offered no immediate explanation for the disaster, however. Iranian officials initially blamed a technical malfunction for the crash, something initially backed by Ukrainian officials before they said they wouldn’t speculate amid an ongoing investigation.

The crash came just a few hours after Iran launched a ballistic missile attack against Iraqi military bases housing U.S. troops amid a confrontation with Washington over it killing an Iranian Revolutionary Guard general in a drone strike last week.



Wax from melted candles next to flowers are placed at the Canadian Embassy during a national day of mourning in Kyiv, Ukraine, Thursday, Jan. 9, 2020, for the victims of the Ukrainian 737-800 plane that crashed on the outskirts of Tehran. A Ukrainian passenger jet carrying 176 people crashed just minutes after taking off from the Iranian capital's main airport, Wednesday, turning farmland on the outskirts of Tehran into fields of debris and killing all on board. (AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky)


Read more: https://apnews.com/2a2dc1478299d83e233c2cb4d4cd1891

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Whatever happened, it happened quickly - they never radioed distress

Of course, when in an emergency, job one of the pilot is to fly the airplane (and not eff with avionics/comms). But that's why they have (at least) 2 crew members.

[dware]

3. If, as I believe, this was an accidental shootdown by Iran,

then they need to admit it, explain what happened, and immediately offer to cooperate with Ukrainian and Canadian authorities in the investigation and offer compensation to the victim's families.

That would make it seem that they are being honest about the tragic accident, if that's what really happened.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. An accident would be the easiest explanation for them to own up to.

If anyone gave them any guff, they could simply say, "*Cough* Iran Air 655 *cough*".

[MosheFeingold]

10. Difficult position for Iran

Iran took (and takes) the position that the Iran 655 shoot down was intentional and holds fast to the "no one can make that kind of mistake" line.

It's a stupid position for Iran to take.

As I posted in another thread, I saw a guy shoot a cow (that I could plainly see was a cow) in combat. (And we weren't really in combat; I was an MP in a semi-secured territory and armed with a semi-automatic -- typewriter.)

I also have zero doubts he thought he was shooting a German. Maybe it was a Deutsch Angus.

I don't think people who haven't been in combat understand how elevated your tension is.

[Blue_playwright]

2. This just doesn't pass the smell test

This just doesn’t pass the smell test For me. Came to close on the heels of all the chaos.

[Baclava]

5. Emotional scenes as friends pay tribute to victims at Ukraine's international airport

Ukraine says multiple possible theories are being discussed with Iranian investigators: including the plane being hit by an anti-aircraft missile, a collision, technical failure or a terrorist act.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-crash-investigation/index.html

------------------


Trudeau demands significant role for Canada in Iran plane crash probe

When Mr Trudeau was asked by reporters if he could rule out the possibility that the plane was shot down, the prime minister said he could not but added “it is too early to speculate”.

Sixty-three Canadians among 176 killed on Ukraine International Airlines flight

Iran has refused to hand over the black boxes from the Boeing 737-800 plane to the company or US investigators.

https://www.ft.com/content/629022b2-328d-11ea-9703-eea0cae3f0de

[OnlinePoker]

11. Why should Iran hand over the black boxes to U.S.?

It was a Ukranian airline flying out of Tehran. It's between those countries to decide how to approach the investigation.

[Baclava]

14. Nobody in the US is insisting they should, thats Iran talking. Canada has a NTSB like lab too

But France has very good air crash investigators, they should be able to extract the data.

[OnlinePoker]

15. I know, but it's the way it comes across in the MSM

"Iran has refused to hand over...". I saw this on CNN as well. It almost makes it like they are expected to hand this over to a country they're almost at war with.

[Baclava]

16. I think the question is why aren't they handing over the boxes to ANY safety lab

Under international rules the country where a crash takes place can run the investigation, but the black box data retrieval is very specialized

Why they arent willing to get the ball rolling on retrieving that data is anyones guess, maybe they think they can do it

Canada should be brought in, they are fully up on the 737 and can download the data

[ripcord]

17. I agree with you

I didn't agree with sending the back boxes from the Boeing Ethiopia crash to France as they own part of Airbus and are in direct competition with Boeing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Sounds a bit like ValuJet 592.

In 1996 a DC-9 crashed into the Everglades shortly after departing from Miami. It turned out that there had been a fire in the forward cargo compartment that probably started even before the plane took off. The fire was caused by improper storage and loading of chemical oxygen generators and tires, which ignited and caused an intense fire that melted the control cables and made the airplane uncontrollable. It could have been an intentional act, too, but the first thing I thought of was ValuJet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592

[Lonestarblue]

7. Also, I think I saw a news article that the plane had been in for repairs the day before.

I do not think that Iran would shoot down a civilian plane departing from its major airport and with many of its own citizens aboard. They would have no reason to do so. We could just as easily blame a US missile fired from a ship, which is also unlikely.

[LiberalArkie]

8. Batteries maybe?

[MBS]

12. this is the most plausible explanation I've heard thus far.

Thanks!

[manicdem]

13. External fire

Internal fires like this wouldn't be seen much outside. The Ukraine aircraft was totally engulfed in flames with uncontrolled burning fuel. Most engine fires and small fuel leaks could be suppressed, so this would have to be something catostrophic and sudden.

[EX500rider]

18. Except the ValuJet crew was able to radio...

....air traffic control for a return to Miami due to the increasing smoke in the cockpit and cabin, and were given instructions for a return to the airport.

The 3 year old Boeing Ukrainian Air made no calls...which definitely points to something sudden and catastrophic like a SAM missile or a bomb on board.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. They are now reporting that this might have been an accidental shoot-down.

But I wasn't suggesting that it was an identical incident to the ValuJet one (that was almost certainly a one-off), only that there could have been a sudden fire or other occurrence that resulted from some malfunction of or on the aircraft.

[EX500rider]

20. Yeah but unlikely for it to the crew to instantly lose all radio contact...

...with out something going BOOM and destroying most of the plane. And it was only a 3 year old Boeing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. Unlikely but not inconceivable if an onboard fire or explosion

disabled the comm equipment. But it now appears that the plane was hit by a missile.

[sarisataka]

9. I can accept a catastrophic malfunction

Even though it is the least likely of the three plausible scenarios.

However Iran has very good reason to conceal the true cause if it was a mistake which would embarrass them. Verification through analysis of the black boxes and wreckage is neccessary to support the claim that it was a technical issue and the plane was turning back.

I understand why Iran does not want to allow US authorities access. Instead invite a neutral third party to do the analysis. France has a good reputation investigating air crashes. If they are willing, give them the black boxes and full access to the wreckage.

[11 Bravo]

21. I'm not buying it.

While I believe it was accidental, I think an Iranian missile brought down that aircraft. They lost coms, data links, avionics, EVERYTHING all at once. It also appears to have been suddenly engulfed in fire, and crashed without ever issuing a MAYDAY call.
That is not consistent with engine failure.
The black boxes will tell the tale ... if the Iranians allow them to be examined.

[ga_girl]

23. There's video of a missle intercept

Wish I knew where the original media was, but on another forum someone posted a video of a fast moving bright dot going left to right, followed by a bright flash, and a few seconds later a double retort with car alarms going off.

ETA: video embedded in https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7870409/Video-appears-surface-air-missile-hitting-Ukrainian-plane-moments-crashed.html